how to tell real vs fake?

[rparker1998]

Is there any way to tell with the naked eye, (being one who doesn't yet own a loupe) if a diamond is real or fake? IE: Does a fake not give of fire in the red tones or vice versa?)

the reason I ask is because i'm going to look at the local antique mall and if I find something I'd like to purchase but am concerned about paying for a fake as all sales are final - no refunds/returns.

Thanks in advance.

ETA: Apprassials aren't an option either. I also do not have one of those diamond tester majiggies.

 

[neatfreak]

They look different if you know what you are looking at IMO, I can usually tell a diamond from a fake very easily. Personally I wouldn''t buy from someplace with a no return policy...they should at least allow returns if it was misrepresented. They also should have diamond testers on hand there, but they are imperfect unfortunately especially if the stone is set.

 

[Sizzle]

Perhaps you should look into buying a diamond tester!??

 

[ericad]

You would be surprised at the fakes that are circulating nowadays! They are hand cut to diamond standards (including H&A) and the rough comes in all diamond-equivalent colors (not the typical department store D, IF plastic-y fakes, but in H, J, O/P colors too) and in every cut, including the old cuts.

If you are shopping someplace that you suspect capable of selling you a fake (ie, not known to you as a reputable vendor) I suggest you invest in a diamond tester to bring with you (just practice with it first and make sure you know how to use it!) That''s the only way to be 100% certain that you are looking at a diamond.

 

[oldmancoyote]

The other thing is to insist on a proper receipt with a clear description of what you are buying. If the seller describes the item in writing as a "G-H VS approximately 1.0ct weight old european cut natural diamond, not clarity or colour enhanced, set in a 18kt white gold ring, circa 1930", and it then turns out to be a CZ, or a laser-drilled stone, or plated tin, or ... you have some recourse through the courts, no matter what policy they have set on returns or exchanges.

Don't expect to have an easy time with it, however, and statements on colour and clarity are pretty much worth the ink they are written with, since there is no authority on this accepted by default by a court of law.

Personally, first of all I'd select the dealer on three criteria:

1. Look at what they sell beyond the item you like - are they likely to be an expert in that type of item? Don't pick something that stands out as "the only nice thing in the middle of a lot of junk" - you are more likely to do well picking from the middle/bottom range of someone that has lots of nice stuff (but don't ever expect a bargain in an antiques mall - there's just too many traders for this to happen).
   
2. Whether they seem to be passionate about jewels and jewellery in general, not just their stuff.
   
3. Above all whether they are knowledgeable and competent - and treat you as a valuable, interested potential customer, not an annoying nose-poker for asking some probing questions.

Disclaimer: no warranties express or implied. My 2¢ only.

 

[honey22]

I would only purchase from a trusted vendor that deals in antique jewellery, especially if you are not going to consider an appraisal, which I think it necessary when you are making purchases like this.

Can I ask why an appraisal isn''t an option?

 

[strmrdr]

keep your money in your pocket or just buy lottery tickets its a better investment than doing what you are talking about with no tools.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/1/2009 5:53:26 AM
Author: honey22
I would only purchase from a trusted vendor that deals in antique jewellery, especially if you are not going to consider an appraisal, which I think it necessary when you are making purchases like this.

Can I ask why an appraisal isn''t an option?

I think it''s because the dealers won''t allow an item out on conditional sale depending on an appraisal''s results.

 

[denverappraiser]

Let me make sure I understand this. You don’t have the skills or the tools and you’re unwilling to acquire them and your seller won’t allow you to use expert assistance. You apparently don't trust the dealer and for good reason since they won’t stand behind their own grading or even stone identifications, even if they turn out to be wildly inaccurate. You don’t even have a particular item that you’re considering but are just looking for deals. Does that sum it up? Why in the world would you consider shopping under such conditions?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[rparker1998]

ok - before i get stoned against the wall any further....let me clarify.

This particular antique mall uses various booths/spaces that it rents out to local individuals who are trying to sell items they deem as antique or vintage. it''s very obviouse some are not and thus some of the individual vendors try to pass of obvious things that are not worth the time nor money.

As for the apprasials, I''m not sure if the vendors would allow it or not, but I''m presuming not of course it never hurts to ask.

As for not having the tools/skills, i''m looking into purchasing a loupe and also a diamond tester, I just need to find a reliable vendor for them. (suggestions welcome)

I have a general idea of what i''m looking at but am by no means a pro.

 

[oneandahalfrock]

It does sound like risky business to me but I''m surprised no one suggested the ''breath test''
From http://www.geo.utexas.edu;
A simple instrument that tests thermal conductivity is commonly used to tell diamond from most synthetics or imitations. It is ineffective in separating synthetic moissanite from diamond, but reliable for other simulants. An interesting but far less reliable test relying on the same property, the "breath test", has also been used for the same purpose. Diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known substance (thus cool to the touch), and moisture from ones breath evaporate from a diamond more rapidly than from any substitute.
---
I personally think moissanite gives itself away just because of the cutting...
Anyways, good luck, but yeah, risky business missy

 

[rparker1998]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I now officially subscribe to the look only philosophy with this place. I''ll take eveyones words of caution. I apologize if I seemed a bit irritated or offended. I didn''t mean to come across that way.

 

[ericad]

Date: 1/1/2009 2:07:37 PM
Author: oneandahalfrock
It does sound like risky business to me but I''m surprised no one suggested the ''breath test''

From http://www.geo.utexas.edu;

A simple instrument that tests thermal conductivity is commonly used to tell diamond from most synthetics or imitations. It is ineffective in separating synthetic moissanite from diamond, but reliable for other simulants. An interesting but far less reliable test relying on the same property, the ''breath test'', has also been used for the same purpose. Diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known substance (thus cool to the touch), and moisture from ones breath evaporate from a diamond more rapidly than from any substitute.

---

I personally think moissanite gives itself away just because of the cutting...

Anyways, good luck, but yeah, risky business missy

The breath test is not reliable. I have used it on sims and diamonds and, while the sims do consistently stay fogged for several seconds, I have had a few diamonds do the same (and others that don''t). The breath test is hit or miss.

 

[LGK]

Date: 1/1/2009 5:32:49 PM
Author: ericad

Date: 1/1/2009 2:07:37 PM

Author: oneandahalfrock

It does sound like risky business to me but I''m surprised no one suggested the ''breath test''


From http://www.geo.utexas.edu;


A simple instrument that tests thermal conductivity is commonly used to tell diamond from most synthetics or imitations. It is ineffective in separating synthetic moissanite from diamond, but reliable for other simulants. An interesting but far less reliable test relying on the same property, the ''breath test'', has also been used for the same purpose. Diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known substance (thus cool to the touch), and moisture from ones breath evaporate from a diamond more rapidly than from any substitute.


---


I personally think moissanite gives itself away just because of the cutting...


Anyways, good luck, but yeah, risky business missy

The breath test is not reliable. I have used it on sims and diamonds and, while the sims do consistently stay fogged for several seconds, I have had a few diamonds do the same (and others that don''t). The breath test is hit or miss.

That''s been my experience too. Also if you live in, say, the Northwest here where it''s often humid, that seems to make the diamonds stay fogged for a while too.

As far as buying estate jewelry at antique malls, it is a good sign if the mall stands behind their dealer''s descriptions (i.e., if the item isn''t as described you can return it)- the one I work for does. Also, the more educated you are about estate jewelery and antiques, the better you can do buying out of an antique store. There is ALWAYS a deal hiding somewhere, often in plain sight, for the educated eye to find.

The easiest way to tell most sims vs. diamonds apart is just to eyeball a lot of each. At some point, after looking at enough, your average quality simulants will be pretty easy to spot. There are a small minority of super high quality sims (that mimic unusual cuts like OECs, and have a small hint of color, for example) that are excellent and not so easy to spot, though.

Often a look at the girdle of a round stone will tell you something, though. A bruted girdle is something I''ve never seen on a sim. A faceted girdle, likewise. A flat polished girdle, however, I''ve never seen on a diamond but most round sims have girdles finished in this manner. (I''m sure there are some diamonds finished like that, but I haven''t run across one, that''s all.)

 

[rparker1998]

Date: 1/1/2009 5:57:11 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten

Date: 1/1/2009 5:32:49 PM
Author: ericad

Date: 1/1/2009 2:07:37 PM

Author: oneandahalfrock

It does sound like risky business to me but I''m surprised no one suggested the ''breath test''


From http://www.geo.utexas.edu;


A simple instrument that tests thermal conductivity is commonly used to tell diamond from most synthetics or imitations. It is ineffective in separating synthetic moissanite from diamond, but reliable for other simulants. An interesting but far less reliable test relying on the same property, the ''breath test'', has also been used for the same purpose. Diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known substance (thus cool to the touch), and moisture from ones breath evaporate from a diamond more rapidly than from any substitute.


---


I personally think moissanite gives itself away just because of the cutting...


Anyways, good luck, but yeah, risky business missy

The breath test is not reliable. I have used it on sims and diamonds and, while the sims do consistently stay fogged for several seconds, I have had a few diamonds do the same (and others that don''t). The breath test is hit or miss.

That''s been my experience too. Also if you live in, say, the Northwest here where it''s often humid, that seems to make the diamonds stay fogged for a while too.

As far as buying estate jewelry at antique malls, it is a good sign if the mall stands behind their dealer''s descriptions (i.e., if the item isn''t as described you can return it)- the one I work for does. Also, the more educated you are about estate jewelery and antiques, the better you can do buying out of an antique store. There is ALWAYS a deal hiding somewhere, often in plain sight, for the educated eye to find.

The easiest way to tell most sims vs. diamonds apart is just to eyeball a lot of each. At some point, after looking at enough, your average quality simulants will be pretty easy to spot. There are a small minority of super high quality sims (that mimic unusual cuts like OECs, and have a small hint of color, for example) that are excellent and not so easy to spot, though.

Often a look at the girdle of a round stone will tell you something, though. A bruted girdle is something I''ve never seen on a sim. A faceted girdle, likewise. A flat polished girdle, however, I''ve never seen on a diamond but most round sims have girdles finished in this manner. (I''m sure there are some diamonds finished like that, but I haven''t run across one, that''s all.)

Ok um, in noob terms please...

 

[WinkHPD]

Get a copy of Alan Hodgkinson''s brilliant book. He is a Scottish Gemologist and one heck of a fine man.

The exact title title escapes me, and I am not at the office, so I can not pull either of my copies off the shelf. I believe it my be Visual Optics. He teaches you how to hold the stone up to your eye, allow back lighting to pass through it and identify the stone using the spectral images that flash on your retina.

The pattern made by a diamond is foolproof. It is completely different from any of the other gems and also from all of the simulants. Only when the syntetic diamonds become abundantly available will you have any problem.

For pure gem ident, your pen light can be as valuable as your loupe.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/3/2009 12:55:41 AM
Author: Wink
Get a copy of Alan Hodgkinson''s brilliant book. He is a Scottish Gemologist and one heck of a fine man.


The exact title title escapes me, and I am not at the office, so I can not pull either of my copies off the shelf. I believe it my be Visual Optics. He teaches you how to hold the stone up to your eye, allow back lighting to pass through it and identify the stone using the spectral images that flash on your retina.


The pattern made by a diamond is foolproof. It is completely different from any of the other gems and also from all of the simulants. Only when the syntetic diamonds become abundantly available will you have any problem.


For pure gem ident, your pen light can be as valuable as your loupe.


Wink

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/visual-optics-special-weapons-tactics-for-guerilla-gemology.10635/