HockeyMama
Shiny_Rock
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HRT - Care To Share Your Experiences?
- Thread starter Ally T
- Start date
RunningwithScissors
Ideal_Rock
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It takes a while to find the right combo of hormones (and the right method of taking them) that suit your body. I'm on Estrodial, testosterone creme specifically compounded for me, and progesterone. These ARE meant to be taken long-term, and have significant long-term health benefits, not least of which is bone density/health.
Libido and energy level are directly tied to testosterone level which bottoms out during menopause. YES, woman are supposed to have testosterone too, it's not just a man's hormone. Testosterone plays a significant role in bone health and lean tissue health, libido and energy level. There are many ways to take testosterone and I have personally found that some don't suit me. It all has to do with your health goals and personal tolerances. I just wanted to point out that if one source/method of testosterone, or any of the other hormones don't suit your body, there are others to try. I started with the pellet testosterone injection (its the size of a grain of rice and is implanted in your glut muscle). For me, it created terrible acne, NOT because it was too strong, but because the level of testosterone is not level. After consulting multiple IRL doctors, I learned that acne is actually NOT caused/triggered by high levels of testosterone, but instead by falling/fluctuating levels of it. So I got terrible acne as my pellet wained. (Pellets need to be re-injected every 3 months). So I moved to a creme that I apply every morning. It's soooo easy, it's just like a hand creme that I put on my legs or arms. And it's compounded for me so that I could try different levels/strengths of testosterone (with subsequent blood tests) to find the perfect one for my body. No acne, great energy, the level of libido I want, no brain fog, bone health, lean tissue retention, etc.
Hope this is helpful. Don't give up, just try different things until you find a combo that works for you.
I'm sure Missy's page is helpful too. I'm not on FB much, but if I were I would join it.
The "bad old days" of hormones 20 years ago are a thing of the past. All the data now shows that taken at the right levels, they increase not only longevity but GOOD years and decrease suffering. Bio-identical is definitely the way to go.
In the bad old days, women were given far too much estrogen, (and horse estrogen at that!) and no progesterone or testosterone. Science now understands the merits/balance of all three.
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No that group is poorly moderated but it has some overlap of members. Some valuable info but too much misinformation there unfortunately. The chief admin left and now it’s a free for all. I’d like to see them shape up though
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RunningwithScissors
Ideal_Rock
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I'm not trying to start a disagreement either. My multiple IRL doctors have told me testosterone is crucial to my energy level, libido and bone/tissue health. They have nothing to gain from telling me that as they aren't selling me anything. They are doctors in the field in which they are dispensing medical advice. That is crucial as they are not only up to date on the science in their field of expertise, but they have the first hand knowledge of seeing/treating hundreds of patients for this complaint/ailment.
Additionally, my own body's symptoms has shown (to me) that testosterone affects libdo as as well. When my testosterone levels were at near zero (discovered through blood tests) I had zero libido even though I was on Estrodial and progesterone. When I started on testosterone pellet therapy, my libido went through the roof (too much for my liking) and I developed bad acne. Now I'm on a creme, and my libido is where I want it to be after some tweaking of the level of testosterone in the creme, and my acne is non existent due to the level being continuous, not rising and falling.
All I'm suggesting to Ally is that if she's on estrogen and still has no libido, she may want to talk to her IRL doctors -- specialists -- about adding testosterone. I was in Ally's position several years ago (taking Estrodial which helped the hot flashes but not the libido or energy level). I'm also suggesting that if she isn't happy with the results of some of the forms of the hormones that she's tried, that there are multiple ones out there for her to try with her IRL doctor's guidance/supervision.
Additionally, my own body's symptoms has shown (to me) that testosterone affects libdo as as well. When my testosterone levels were at near zero (discovered through blood tests) I had zero libido even though I was on Estrodial and progesterone. When I started on testosterone pellet therapy, my libido went through the roof (too much for my liking) and I developed bad acne. Now I'm on a creme, and my libido is where I want it to be after some tweaking of the level of testosterone in the creme, and my acne is non existent due to the level being continuous, not rising and falling.
All I'm suggesting to Ally is that if she's on estrogen and still has no libido, she may want to talk to her IRL doctors -- specialists -- about adding testosterone. I was in Ally's position several years ago (taking Estrodial which helped the hot flashes but not the libido or energy level). I'm also suggesting that if she isn't happy with the results of some of the forms of the hormones that she's tried, that there are multiple ones out there for her to try with her IRL doctor's guidance/supervision.
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I’m glad it is working well for you. As long as your estradiol is robust and t is optimal you are good. But t alone is not responsible for libido in post menopausal women.
Increasing women’s sexual desire: The comparative effectiveness of estrogens and androgens
Both estradiol and testosterone have been implicated as the steroid critical for modulating women’s sexual desire. By contrast, in all other female mammals only estradiol has been shown to be critical for female sexual motivation and behavior. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
HockeyMama
Shiny_Rock
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Oops. Thank you. Which is the preferred FB group?
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I don’t think I am allowed to share it here. Also we have temporarily closed the group to new members though I could invite you and you could join that way. Can you get in touch with me on instagram? It’s my screen name here plus lovesvintage
Just wanted to add (I've been lucky with symptoms being manageable but like to see what others are dealing with in case something comes up) - 51 is the average age so many many women 50+ are not post-menopausal. I'm 55 and still going strong (sadly; I would be thrilled to not deal with periods anymore).
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Thank you all for your kind advice & reassurance! I feel so much better for having got up & read this thread this morning.
@missy - the Estradiol & Utrogestran I take are both BHRT. I was adamant about that after the synthetic Prog started causing hair loss. Usually things have different names between Europe & the US, but it’s made from yams & my hair hasn’t been this thick for at least 5 years. It still sheds when it gets jaw length, but it’s thick & I no longer have to style it to disguise visible scalp, which I’ll take.
Presumably when I’ve had the all clear from the scan & I get sent to the private Dr, I can discuss testosterone? And is this something that can also be BHRT? I was on your Fbook group but came off it again, because there was a lot of traffic that wasn’t relevant to me because I’d been put on synthetic medications initially. None of the posts made any sense, so I bowed out. I’m not a big Fbook user, so on the times I went on it was flooded with irrelevant chat about dosage adjustments & things beyond my control, as I just had a patch slapped on my hip & that was it
@missy - the Estradiol & Utrogestran I take are both BHRT. I was adamant about that after the synthetic Prog started causing hair loss. Usually things have different names between Europe & the US, but it’s made from yams & my hair hasn’t been this thick for at least 5 years. It still sheds when it gets jaw length, but it’s thick & I no longer have to style it to disguise visible scalp, which I’ll take.
Presumably when I’ve had the all clear from the scan & I get sent to the private Dr, I can discuss testosterone? And is this something that can also be BHRT? I was on your Fbook group but came off it again, because there was a lot of traffic that wasn’t relevant to me because I’d been put on synthetic medications initially. None of the posts made any sense, so I bowed out. I’m not a big Fbook user, so on the times I went on it was flooded with irrelevant chat about dosage adjustments & things beyond my control, as I just had a patch slapped on my hip & that was it
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Thank you all for your kind advice & reassurance! I feel so much better for having got up & read this thread this morning.
@missy - the Estradiol & Utrogestran I take are both BHRT. I was adamant about that after the synthetic Prog started causing hair loss. Usually things have different names between Europe & the US, but it’s made from yams & my hair hasn’t been this thick for at least 5 years. It still sheds when it gets jaw length, but it’s thick & I no longer have to style it to disguise visible scalp, which I’ll take.
Presumably when I’ve had the all clear from the scan & I get sent to the private Dr, I can discuss testosterone? And is this something that can also be BHRT? I was on your Fbook group but came off it again, because there was a lot of traffic that wasn’t relevant to me because I’d been put on synthetic medications initially. None of the posts made any sense, so I bowed out. I’m not a big Fbook user, so on the times I went on it was flooded with irrelevant chat about dosage adjustments & things beyond my control, as I just had a patch slapped on my hip & that was it
Yes, testosterone is an important part of the complete picture and once your e and p levels have been optimized and balanced I recommend adding T. We are always looking for optimal. Evaluating how we feel (symptoms) and labs and signs. All are needed for an accurate and thorough evaluation and as a guide to your next steps. I always remind everyone it is a journey and worth the energy and time to figure it out for good health and well being emotionally and physically.
The featured threads we have in the group are very informative and go over important basics and other principles which can serve you well on this journey. When you have a chance I highly recommend you reading them as they can be helpful. We also have a featured thread on hair thinning. As well as BHRT options. Optimal values. Sleep. E to P ratio. Many featured threads on P. Just to name a few.
Good luck Ally.
adlgel
Shiny_Rock
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- 462
This was a very useful thread. I've been on estradiol and progesterone for about 3 years now. They have done wonders to address my hot flashes and sleep disruption which were my primary menopause symptoms. However, my ob/gyn has never discussed my testosterone levels with me and there may be other smaller symptoms that perhaps are worth discussing in that context.
One thing I didn't see mentioned here that I wonder if others have done investigation on is a correlation between BHRT and weight gain. I know that our metabolism will slow as we age but I swear I can perfectly correlate the time that I started BHRT with a point in time when my rate of weight gain increased noticeably even though my levels of exercise and diet hadn't changed.
At my most recent annual physical with my Primary Care doc (who sadly has since retired) she said that there is some data suggesting progesterone could be correlated to weight gain. She referred me to an endocrinologist to just do an overall check on all my lives (that appt is scheduled for early October) so hopefully I can rule out any other obvious hormonal imbalances or deficiencies. But wondering what other people have experienced as it relates to BHRT and weight gain.
One thing I didn't see mentioned here that I wonder if others have done investigation on is a correlation between BHRT and weight gain. I know that our metabolism will slow as we age but I swear I can perfectly correlate the time that I started BHRT with a point in time when my rate of weight gain increased noticeably even though my levels of exercise and diet hadn't changed.
At my most recent annual physical with my Primary Care doc (who sadly has since retired) she said that there is some data suggesting progesterone could be correlated to weight gain. She referred me to an endocrinologist to just do an overall check on all my lives (that appt is scheduled for early October) so hopefully I can rule out any other obvious hormonal imbalances or deficiencies. But wondering what other people have experienced as it relates to BHRT and weight gain.
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@Ally T, I will probably get bashed here for what I’m about to say. I see a doctor who specializes in gynecological cancers. This doctor is also head of the research lab on ovarian and endometrial cancers at a large well known teaching hospital. I had my yearly appointment with him last month. When I asked him about bio identical hormones he was against them for me. Ovarian, endometrial and breast cancers run in my family. I’ve taken HRT in the past with good results under this doctors care.
It makes me uncomfortable when people tell others to get their information from Facebook and look to people who are not doctors specialized in this field for advice.
It makes me uncomfortable when people tell others to get their information from Facebook and look to people who are not doctors specialized in this field for advice.
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Thanks for chiming in. I am glad you are able to take something to navigate these tricky years without aggravating anything else & that your Dr knows what he’s doing.
I agree about online information & I felt very uncomfortable reading posts about people adjusting their own meds & being encouraged to do so by others. I read one about a woman being advised by other posters to start wearing two patches at once, despite being prescribed to wear only one. It blows my mind that this is encouraged by people who are not medical professionals. It dangerous.
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@Ally T bio identical HRT is very safe. Unfortunately many doctors have not gotten past the faulty WHI study from 2002. BHRT does not cause cancer. It is a sad fact many drs unintentionally mislead their patients away from good health.
There is a book written by an oncologist who treats his breast cancer patients with BHRT. "Estrogen Matters" by Avrum Bluming. I recommend reading it for peace of mind. Get this book everyone who wants to learn about this:
“Estrogen Matters”
Authors: Avrum Bluming, M.D. and Carol Tavris, Ph.D.:
If you search the National Institute of Health publications you will find many studies. Dr. Bluming is a medical oncologist.
Here is a link to a helpful podcast about this topic fyi
peterattiamd.com
Some facts
Hormones DO NOT cause cancer. Breast, uterine, Prostrate cancer,etc
We also know that it cannot be proven where breast cancer came from. I know women in real life with breast cancer that have never used BHRT.
There are some that will blame everything on hormones and leave out 90% of the story.
There are so many benefits to hormones, and things they prevent including cardiovascular disease that actually is the biggest killer of women, and yet so much concentration on BC. Breast cancer is of course a terrible scary disease that has caused a lot of sadness and I am not dismissing that at all. But the fact is BHRT does NOT cause cancer and those fear mongering are doing others a disservice. We all must decide what is best for us but with facts. Not myths.
Breast cancer is low down on the list of the cause of death in women, way behind heart disease and other cancers. Behind Covid 19 too. Yet most women (when polled in a survey) would rate it #1 due to all the fear around it. And keep in mind many oncologists are only interested in treating cancer - not your overall wellbeing.
This was written by a friend of mine years ago who went through breast cancer and no dr would give her BHRT for 17 years and she suffered greatly. Finally found specialists who were knowledgeable and up to date on this issue and she is doing so well now. Taking BHRT and feeling great and I am going to share it here minus her name for the benefit of others. Remember KNOWLEDGE is POWER. ***Don't let others rob you of knowledge with their tall tales and fear mongering.***
"I too very much appreciate the shout out --- the 17 years I lived without hormones were really horrific as I had zero quality of life -- I mean zero and a ton of awful symptoms and physicians were terrified to treat me! So, they did not. 56 doctors over that 17-year period, the incredible functional medicine specialists truly saved me. I agree with **** -- the more it is we learn, the less it is we fear and then the more empowered it is we become to help ourselves and also find the right doctor for ourself as well. Always help and always hope!! The time finally has come where more and more physicians, NPs, PAs NDs, and even pharmacists who can write prescriptions are learning about menopause, learning that hormones do not cause cancer -- (they don't), learning that there are lots and lots of moving parts to our bodies and that menopause is a serious specialty and is starting to be treated as such as it well deserves to be. Doctors simply were not taught - many ran from treating women in menopause as it was far too complex and not an interest really and a lot of false information was put so many of us suffered - many suffered who did not have breast cancer as well. The fear however was and is very real still that hormones cause breast cancer. For those of us who have had breast cancer, it was really sad and very difficult trying to navigate through life feeling as awful as we did due to a lack of hormones which are very powerful biochemicals our body needs, and for a multitude of reasons! Muscles, bones, vaginal health, cardiovascular health -- COGNITION!!!! (To name a few). Two books I always make mention of that are really very good are Happy Healthy Hormones by Dr. Daved Rosensweet and also for sure Estrogen Matters by Dr's Avrum Bluming and Carol Tavris, he an oncologist of serious high esteem for many years now who treated his own wife and daughter with hormones and to this day they still take them after both being diagnosed with breast cancer -- he and Dr. Tavris wrote an amazing book after digging deep deep deep into the science - Happy Healthy Hormones too is very well written by a physician of 50 + years who has devoted his life to helping women in menopause. This group we are on IS great and I am so grateful to have been a member jeez -- for quite a few years now. Wow. I am in my second year (at 64 having started hormones at 59) of school, I work, I do interviews once a week at 7am pst and live my life. There was a time when I could not stop crying - was exhausted but could not sleep -- had major anxiety 24/7 and a whole lot more with no clue how the heck I was going to continue on --- I could write a book on my symptoms alone please know. This indeed is a wonderful, safe, kind and loving supportive group absolutely. When there is life there is hope always and together we can -- we really can. Alone well, it is difficult at best. I feel very grateful for sure. xoxo"
If you do a medical literature search you will find updated info but here is just one link fyi
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Conclusion: Physiological data and clinical outcomes demonstrate that bioidentical hormones are associated with lower risks, including the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular disease, and are more efficacious than their synthetic and animal-derived counterparts."
And from the medical journals
"Between 1995 and 2014, 43,183 cases of breast cancer were identified and matched to 431,830 women in a control group. In adjusted analyses, compared with women who never used menopausal HT, its use was associated with an increased risk of breast cancer (odds ratio [OR] 1.12, 95% CI 1.09-1.15). Compared with never users, estrogens were not associated with breast cancer (bioidentical estrogens:"
The cancer risk is appears predominantly mediated through formulations containing synthetic progestins."
NOT bio identical. Read the again
We need our sex hormones for brain health. Bone health. Cardiovascular health. Urogenitary health. And so much more. Humans in the past did not live as long as they do now and once our hormones depleted that was near our end. But now, we are living longer and most of us want a quality of life. Without hormones your body will deteriorate. Your mind and body both. It is a sad fact of life. Hormones are not optional for good health.
Again we all must make the best decision for each of us. I am sharing facts and info to start anyone here who is interested in learning more. Not telling anyone what to do. Only you can decide what is best for you. But keep in mind no doctor cares as much about your health as you do. And doctors get it wrong. Unfortunately we see that time and time again. So as I always say...DO you DUE diligence. Get the facts. Process them. And make the best decision for you. There are no blanket rules that apply to all.
Wishing my friends here good health. And peace and happiness and love.
There is a book written by an oncologist who treats his breast cancer patients with BHRT. "Estrogen Matters" by Avrum Bluming. I recommend reading it for peace of mind. Get this book everyone who wants to learn about this:
“Estrogen Matters”
Authors: Avrum Bluming, M.D. and Carol Tavris, Ph.D.:
If you search the National Institute of Health publications you will find many studies. Dr. Bluming is a medical oncologist.
Here is a link to a helpful podcast about this topic fyi
#42 - Avrum Bluming, M.D. and Carol Tavris, Ph.D.: Controversial topic affecting all women—the role of hormone replacement therapy through menopause and beyond—the compelling case for long-term HRT and dispelling the myth that it causes breast cancer
"We welcome the criticism and the discussion, that way we will all learn. We don't claim to have the final answer, but we think that this book [Estrogen Matters] represents an important step forward in empowering women and helping them live longer and live better." —Avrum Bluming
peterattiamd.com
Some facts
Hormones DO NOT cause cancer. Breast, uterine, Prostrate cancer,etc
We also know that it cannot be proven where breast cancer came from. I know women in real life with breast cancer that have never used BHRT.
There are some that will blame everything on hormones and leave out 90% of the story.
There are so many benefits to hormones, and things they prevent including cardiovascular disease that actually is the biggest killer of women, and yet so much concentration on BC. Breast cancer is of course a terrible scary disease that has caused a lot of sadness and I am not dismissing that at all. But the fact is BHRT does NOT cause cancer and those fear mongering are doing others a disservice. We all must decide what is best for us but with facts. Not myths.
Breast cancer is low down on the list of the cause of death in women, way behind heart disease and other cancers. Behind Covid 19 too. Yet most women (when polled in a survey) would rate it #1 due to all the fear around it. And keep in mind many oncologists are only interested in treating cancer - not your overall wellbeing.
This was written by a friend of mine years ago who went through breast cancer and no dr would give her BHRT for 17 years and she suffered greatly. Finally found specialists who were knowledgeable and up to date on this issue and she is doing so well now. Taking BHRT and feeling great and I am going to share it here minus her name for the benefit of others. Remember KNOWLEDGE is POWER. ***Don't let others rob you of knowledge with their tall tales and fear mongering.***
"I too very much appreciate the shout out --- the 17 years I lived without hormones were really horrific as I had zero quality of life -- I mean zero and a ton of awful symptoms and physicians were terrified to treat me! So, they did not. 56 doctors over that 17-year period, the incredible functional medicine specialists truly saved me. I agree with **** -- the more it is we learn, the less it is we fear and then the more empowered it is we become to help ourselves and also find the right doctor for ourself as well. Always help and always hope!! The time finally has come where more and more physicians, NPs, PAs NDs, and even pharmacists who can write prescriptions are learning about menopause, learning that hormones do not cause cancer -- (they don't), learning that there are lots and lots of moving parts to our bodies and that menopause is a serious specialty and is starting to be treated as such as it well deserves to be. Doctors simply were not taught - many ran from treating women in menopause as it was far too complex and not an interest really and a lot of false information was put so many of us suffered - many suffered who did not have breast cancer as well. The fear however was and is very real still that hormones cause breast cancer. For those of us who have had breast cancer, it was really sad and very difficult trying to navigate through life feeling as awful as we did due to a lack of hormones which are very powerful biochemicals our body needs, and for a multitude of reasons! Muscles, bones, vaginal health, cardiovascular health -- COGNITION!!!! (To name a few). Two books I always make mention of that are really very good are Happy Healthy Hormones by Dr. Daved Rosensweet and also for sure Estrogen Matters by Dr's Avrum Bluming and Carol Tavris, he an oncologist of serious high esteem for many years now who treated his own wife and daughter with hormones and to this day they still take them after both being diagnosed with breast cancer -- he and Dr. Tavris wrote an amazing book after digging deep deep deep into the science - Happy Healthy Hormones too is very well written by a physician of 50 + years who has devoted his life to helping women in menopause. This group we are on IS great and I am so grateful to have been a member jeez -- for quite a few years now. Wow. I am in my second year (at 64 having started hormones at 59) of school, I work, I do interviews once a week at 7am pst and live my life. There was a time when I could not stop crying - was exhausted but could not sleep -- had major anxiety 24/7 and a whole lot more with no clue how the heck I was going to continue on --- I could write a book on my symptoms alone please know. This indeed is a wonderful, safe, kind and loving supportive group absolutely. When there is life there is hope always and together we can -- we really can. Alone well, it is difficult at best. I feel very grateful for sure. xoxo"
If you do a medical literature search you will find updated info but here is just one link fyi
The bioidentical hormone debate: are bioidentical hormones (estradiol, estriol, and progesterone) safer or more efficacious than commonly used synthetic versions in hormone replacement therapy? - PubMed
Physiological data and clinical outcomes demonstrate that bioidentical hormones are associated with lower risks, including the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular disease, and are more efficacious than their synthetic and animal-derived counterparts. Until evidence is found to the contrary...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Conclusion: Physiological data and clinical outcomes demonstrate that bioidentical hormones are associated with lower risks, including the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular disease, and are more efficacious than their synthetic and animal-derived counterparts."
And from the medical journals
"Between 1995 and 2014, 43,183 cases of breast cancer were identified and matched to 431,830 women in a control group. In adjusted analyses, compared with women who never used menopausal HT, its use was associated with an increased risk of breast cancer (odds ratio [OR] 1.12, 95% CI 1.09-1.15). Compared with never users, estrogens were not associated with breast cancer (bioidentical estrogens:"
The cancer risk is appears predominantly mediated through formulations containing synthetic progestins."
NOT bio identical. Read the again
We need our sex hormones for brain health. Bone health. Cardiovascular health. Urogenitary health. And so much more. Humans in the past did not live as long as they do now and once our hormones depleted that was near our end. But now, we are living longer and most of us want a quality of life. Without hormones your body will deteriorate. Your mind and body both. It is a sad fact of life. Hormones are not optional for good health.
Again we all must make the best decision for each of us. I am sharing facts and info to start anyone here who is interested in learning more. Not telling anyone what to do. Only you can decide what is best for you. But keep in mind no doctor cares as much about your health as you do. And doctors get it wrong. Unfortunately we see that time and time again. So as I always say...DO you DUE diligence. Get the facts. Process them. And make the best decision for you. There are no blanket rules that apply to all.
Wishing my friends here good health. And peace and happiness and love.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2008
- Messages
- 55,078
OK back for a moment after pilling my sweet Tommy...
@Ally T just adding one more comment if I may. This is a good friend of mine who is in the medical field
"Menopause does not go away. You will continue to decline and put yourself at risk for diseases. You can take them until your last day. You need to research further. Without adequate estradiol, you are at risk for the following. Poor immunity, joint pain, osteoporosis, bladder and vaginal atrophy, vaginal dryness and tearing, BC, dental decay, dry eyes, cardiovascular problems, weight problems, insulin resistance, brain fog, etc. Our bodies are designed to die, without hormones your skin will become thinner and dry. Your quality of life will diminish. I am not joking when I say your zest for life will disappear, you will stop caring because your have no emotions left, you will however become depressed, emotional outburst or the smallest thing, you will yell at family. You've had hormones since conception."
"Remember, for so long women died so much earlier than we do now, so it was no big deal. But we want and deserve great health for as long as we live. And those scare tactics out there about breast cancer? Been around a long time and pertain to old-school synthetic HRT. Take a look at information pinned by our lovely admins about that subject. Listen… these have changed me life, I will do BHRT forever!"
The risk is with non bio identical. Not bio identical.
Another study shows (I will search for it later if I have time) that those who are diagnosed with breast cancer and who are on BHRT have a BETTER prognosis than those who are NOT taking BHRT and get diagnosed with cancer. Read that again. That is another fact.
The NHANES study involving over 5000 women followed for over 20 years showed no increase in breast cancer risk or other types of health risks
FACT: Kent Holtorf, MD, published an article in Postgraduate Medicine: Volume 121: No. 1, entitled “The Bio-Identical Hormone Debate.” He analyzed all of the published clinical studies of the time and presented a “meta-analysis,” a powerful way to look at evidence-based studies in the medical world as it examines all of the available data rather than a single study. This particular review has 196 cited references. His conclusion:
“Physiological data and clinical outcomes demonstrate that bio-identical hormones are associated with lower risks, including the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular disease, and are more efficacious than their synthetic and animal derived counterparts.”
Another myth is about progesterone and if you do not have a uterus you do not need progesterone. FALSE!
FACT:
"You do need progesterone, but not Provera. Progesterone is protective against breast cancer. Progesterone also has a positive effect on moods. Progesterone enhances bone formation."
FACT:
"Long-term health benefits include prevention of bone loss and improved cognitive abilities, as well as reduction in cardiovascular risk and prevention of general fragility. The other potential long term health benefits include prevention of tooth loss and prevention of macular degeneration leading to blindness. Many women continue HRT indefinitely due to the positive impact on quality of life and those long-term health benefits."
When making a personal decision about hormone replacement therapy, look beyond the headlines and carefully weigh the risk and benefits. Always use bio identical hormones. Replace the full complement of missing hormones, which in women includes progesterone testosterone and of course estradiol.
OK I am off my soap box. I hate seeing women mislead other women about hormones. I mean I hate seeing anyone mislead anyone about anything but this is critical to our overall health and well being and I just cannot remain silent. You can do whatever you like with the information. If it makes you search for more answers that makes me happy. Whatever your decision make it based on knowledge not fear. Knowledge is power and advocating for oneself is empowering in a way I would like to see all women behave and take control of their own health!!!
@Ally T just adding one more comment if I may. This is a good friend of mine who is in the medical field
"Menopause does not go away. You will continue to decline and put yourself at risk for diseases. You can take them until your last day. You need to research further. Without adequate estradiol, you are at risk for the following. Poor immunity, joint pain, osteoporosis, bladder and vaginal atrophy, vaginal dryness and tearing, BC, dental decay, dry eyes, cardiovascular problems, weight problems, insulin resistance, brain fog, etc. Our bodies are designed to die, without hormones your skin will become thinner and dry. Your quality of life will diminish. I am not joking when I say your zest for life will disappear, you will stop caring because your have no emotions left, you will however become depressed, emotional outburst or the smallest thing, you will yell at family. You've had hormones since conception."
"Remember, for so long women died so much earlier than we do now, so it was no big deal. But we want and deserve great health for as long as we live. And those scare tactics out there about breast cancer? Been around a long time and pertain to old-school synthetic HRT. Take a look at information pinned by our lovely admins about that subject. Listen… these have changed me life, I will do BHRT forever!"
The risk is with non bio identical. Not bio identical.
Another study shows (I will search for it later if I have time) that those who are diagnosed with breast cancer and who are on BHRT have a BETTER prognosis than those who are NOT taking BHRT and get diagnosed with cancer. Read that again. That is another fact.
The NHANES study involving over 5000 women followed for over 20 years showed no increase in breast cancer risk or other types of health risks
FACT: Kent Holtorf, MD, published an article in Postgraduate Medicine: Volume 121: No. 1, entitled “The Bio-Identical Hormone Debate.” He analyzed all of the published clinical studies of the time and presented a “meta-analysis,” a powerful way to look at evidence-based studies in the medical world as it examines all of the available data rather than a single study. This particular review has 196 cited references. His conclusion:
“Physiological data and clinical outcomes demonstrate that bio-identical hormones are associated with lower risks, including the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular disease, and are more efficacious than their synthetic and animal derived counterparts.”
Another myth is about progesterone and if you do not have a uterus you do not need progesterone. FALSE!
FACT:
"You do need progesterone, but not Provera. Progesterone is protective against breast cancer. Progesterone also has a positive effect on moods. Progesterone enhances bone formation."
FACT:
"Long-term health benefits include prevention of bone loss and improved cognitive abilities, as well as reduction in cardiovascular risk and prevention of general fragility. The other potential long term health benefits include prevention of tooth loss and prevention of macular degeneration leading to blindness. Many women continue HRT indefinitely due to the positive impact on quality of life and those long-term health benefits."
When making a personal decision about hormone replacement therapy, look beyond the headlines and carefully weigh the risk and benefits. Always use bio identical hormones. Replace the full complement of missing hormones, which in women includes progesterone testosterone and of course estradiol.
OK I am off my soap box. I hate seeing women mislead other women about hormones. I mean I hate seeing anyone mislead anyone about anything but this is critical to our overall health and well being and I just cannot remain silent. You can do whatever you like with the information. If it makes you search for more answers that makes me happy. Whatever your decision make it based on knowledge not fear. Knowledge is power and advocating for oneself is empowering in a way I would like to see all women behave and take control of their own health!!!
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Thank you @missy for taking the time to post all of this information. I definitely have no intention of stopping my HRT as I feel SO much better, both physically & mentally. I do feel it needs a tweak & I am very interested in testosterone, so perhaps this recent bleeding & subsequent scan will be a positive thing (hoping so!) because I know I will then be referred to a private HRT clinic.
I am finally getting to grips with my well being after years of creaking & feeling tearful & anxious at the drop of a hat. And the flushes that would come on & completely burn my face off in the middle of dealing with a sobbing child at school were no fun at all. And I would worry what they were so then my heart would start racing & I would get stressed. I am finally losing weight with recent changes to my fitness routine & food (eliminating chemicals where possible etc) & feeling generally positive, so the bleeds have been shocking & worrying. Thursday can’t come soon enough, as it’s been constantly on my mind & keeping me awake at night. I know I am only achieving what I am right now because HRT is giving me the opportunity to be me again.
We are all different, on different journeys & finding what works or doesn’t work as we bumble along. HRT is definitely not for everyone & I fully respect that. I wasn’t for me for many years & boy did I resist, but now here I am.
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So I had zero symptoms. But in 2020 I got a diagnosis of osteoporosis. Due to low hormones. Primary osteoporosis. Silent disease til you break a bone. I can happily say I reversed my op with bhrt. If you read the posts above you’ll see why hormones are critical to our health. Bone, brain, cardiovascular etc health all depends on our sex hormones.
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@Ally T. You asked for others experiences with HRT in this thread. I shared what I was very recently told by my gynecological oncologist. It was not my intention to fear monger. I did not state false information. I apologize if it was taken that way. I always try to keep my comments short and factual in these types of threads.
I’m sending you good thoughts for your test on Thursday. I know how anxiety inducing this can be. As always, I wish you nothing but the best Ally, Callie
Thank you @Bonfire.
I’m sending you good thoughts for your test on Thursday. I know how anxiety inducing this can be. As always, I wish you nothing but the best Ally, Callie
Thank you @Bonfire.
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Not at all! Your post was extremely important & there was zero fear mongering from where I am sitting!
Thank you for your good wishes regarding Thursday. I am up & down about it, so just trying to keep busy & focused on the billion loads of washing I have to get through on top of all the other things & work
Sunrises Sunsets
Shiny_Rock
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I come from a family with a history of no hot flashes during menopause which includes my mom, several sisters and myself. Hadn't a clue as to how miserable they were until a petite co-worker would announce, oh no... here comes a hot flash and turned beet red and her face would be wringing wet. This would happen from time to time and I realized then how debilitating they are for some.
At late stage perimenopause, I developed breakthrough bleeding, (I called it hemorrhaging), after never having any menstrual problems throughout my life. I was trim at the time and suffered from terrible headaches that would last days and through the night which started in my very late thirties. Life became a nightmare and I change gynes from a male to a female.
My new gyne and I discussed how out of control those two items were in my life and I decided to have a complete hysterectomy at age 50. FOR ME, it was the best decision I ever made. No more bleeding but best of all, the terrible migraines stopped immediately. It was found that the uterine wall had thickened to a point that it was mostly likely my bleeding issue.
I was given HRT shortly after surgery. I discontinued it after 6 weeks and never looked back. I sleep well, other than the week before full moon.. go figure, and other than the arrhythmia issue I have since childhood, I'm good to go.
But my point here is that no two women are alike with their female reproductive issues. I knew a woman who took hormones into her mid sixties, continue to have her periods, and developed Alzheimer disease in her later seventies.
I think the best thing is to continue working with your physician until you've conquered your medical issues with bleeding. If you feel you need to change your Dr., do so but there is a solution out there for you and good luck.
Regarding hormones causing cancer, yes they can.
Yes, some hormones can increase the risk of cancer:
At late stage perimenopause, I developed breakthrough bleeding, (I called it hemorrhaging), after never having any menstrual problems throughout my life. I was trim at the time and suffered from terrible headaches that would last days and through the night which started in my very late thirties. Life became a nightmare and I change gynes from a male to a female.
My new gyne and I discussed how out of control those two items were in my life and I decided to have a complete hysterectomy at age 50. FOR ME, it was the best decision I ever made. No more bleeding but best of all, the terrible migraines stopped immediately. It was found that the uterine wall had thickened to a point that it was mostly likely my bleeding issue.
I was given HRT shortly after surgery. I discontinued it after 6 weeks and never looked back. I sleep well, other than the week before full moon.. go figure, and other than the arrhythmia issue I have since childhood, I'm good to go.
But my point here is that no two women are alike with their female reproductive issues. I knew a woman who took hormones into her mid sixties, continue to have her periods, and developed Alzheimer disease in her later seventies.
I think the best thing is to continue working with your physician until you've conquered your medical issues with bleeding. If you feel you need to change your Dr., do so but there is a solution out there for you and good luck.
Regarding hormones causing cancer, yes they can.
- Estrogen production
Fat tissue produces estrogen, and higher levels of estrogen are associated with an increased risk of breast cancer.
Yes, some hormones can increase the risk of cancer:
- Estrogen
A female sex hormone that can act as a catalyst for cancer. Estrogen is found in birth control pills and in hormone replacement therapy (HRT).
- Progesterone
A female sex hormone that can increase the risk of cancer. Progesterone is found in birth control pills and in HRT
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Inked
Brilliant_Rock
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I feel like we have NEVER talked about this enough, historically we as women are truly suffering and it's like the butt of a joke. I'm so glad we (in general) are talking about this more. It's really crazy to me how bad it is and yet I feel like I am the only one suffering and talking about it, are other women just dealing with it and suffering in silence? It's really nice to hear this conversation. I was on birth control until 3 months ago. I have been on birth control since i was 18 and just have been on it my entire life, so 33 years. I regularly went to the doctor, every 6 months as required. No one seemed to think there was anything wrong with me being on it all this time. I was still having menopause symptoms even with the regulation of the pill. Last time i was there as I was walking out AFTER my appointment I said "Is it bad that i have ben on the pill for 33 years?" and she was like "ohhhh.... well, maybe you should come off" ... I have used the same practice for like 20 years, why did i have to ask?
Anyway, they had me come off the pill and now I hate life. LOL. The pill must have regulated my symptoms better because this sucks. I was perfectly happy and normal on the pill except for night sweats, but now I have all 43 mesopause symptoms. I didnt know some of these were symptoms until they happened and i googled it because there is some weird ish happening!! She said she will give me HRT after I have been off for 3 months and get bloodwork, so my three months is up next week.
We need to talk about it more, i had NO idea all this would happen, we need to talk to our younger neices and daughters etc about it because i was unprepared! LOL! I had NO idea all this would happen!
One of my favorite memes:
Anyway, they had me come off the pill and now I hate life. LOL. The pill must have regulated my symptoms better because this sucks. I was perfectly happy and normal on the pill except for night sweats, but now I have all 43 mesopause symptoms. I didnt know some of these were symptoms until they happened and i googled it because there is some weird ish happening!! She said she will give me HRT after I have been off for 3 months and get bloodwork, so my three months is up next week.
We need to talk about it more, i had NO idea all this would happen, we need to talk to our younger neices and daughters etc about it because i was unprepared! LOL! I had NO idea all this would happen!
One of my favorite memes:
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I feel like we have NEVER talked about this enough, historically we as women are truly suffering and it's like the butt of a joke. I'm so glad we (in general) are talking about this more. It's really crazy to me how bad it is and yet I feel like I am the only one suffering and talking about it, are other women just dealing with it and suffering in silence? It's really nice to hear this conversation. I was on birth control until 3 months ago. I have been on birth control since i was 18 and just have been on it my entire life, so 33 years. I regularly went to the doctor, every 6 months as required. No one seemed to think there was anything wrong with me being on it all this time. I was still having menopause symptoms even with the regulation of the pill. Last time i was there as I was walking out AFTER my appointment I said "Is it bad that i have ben on the pill for 33 years?" and she was like "ohhhh.... well, maybe you should come off" ... I have used the same practice for like 20 years, why did i have to ask?
Anyway, they had me come off the pill and now I hate life. LOL. The pill must have regulated my symptoms better because this sucks. I was perfectly happy and normal on the pill except for night sweats, but now I have all 43 mesopause symptoms. I didnt know some of these were symptoms until they happened and i googled it because there is some weird ish happening!! She said she will give me HRT after I have been off for 3 months and get bloodwork, so my three months is up next week.
We need to talk about it more, i had NO idea all this would happen, we need to talk to our younger neices and daughters etc about it because i was unprepared! LOL! I had NO idea all this would happen!
One of my favorite memes:
I am the youngest of 5 sisters and you would think none of them have gone thru meno!! We text all day, every day, and none have ever once even uttered one complaint! Wtfffff. I have been on this journey with a couple of my friends and share a lot with my DD so she is not taken by surprise, lol. Idk if it is a cultural thing—we are Latinas—but my sisters do not volunteer any info nor do they reassure me nor do they give advice about surviving meno. Ughhh
I am looking forward to the M Factor.
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@Inked Thank you for posting. I completely hear you. As far as I am concerned, gone are the days of “it’s just women’s problems” and “she’s on the change” because I talk openly to anyone & everyone about how sh!t this can be! My husband came to the GP with me at my initial appointment last year to discuss HRT, so he could educate himself, and I chat my to daughters ALL the time, who are at the opposite end of this journey aged 13 & 15.
We have an amazing TV personality here in the UK called Davina McCall. She has championed meno ever since she thought she was losing her mind in her mid 40’s & feared for her job in TV. She has done documentaries, streams, petitions, written books & endlessly banged the drum, so now people here actually listen. We have to pay for our prescriptions (even with health insurance) & each one is £9.60. So if I was on Estrogen, Prog & Testosterone, that would cost me £28.80 PER MONTH to feel sane & healthy. Davina took this up & lobbied Parliament, who agreed to introduce an annual subscription scheme that only costs each woman £20 per year. We are also introducing Menopause Awareness in the Workplace to educate even further. We have a Minister for Menopause in Parliament. We’re a long way off, but we are making huge headway.
And women are EMBRACING menopause! We are openly chatting amongst each other, comparing symptoms & discussing ways (other than HRT) which can improve our physical & mental health! Open water swimming & mindfulness are everywhere you look. We are all in this together, the men are waking up about it (because they have no choice) & it’s amazingly liberating!
If you can get it, I highly recommend Davina’s book “Menopausing” I devoured it last year & since then it’s been passed between my sisters & several friends. Very factual, many Dr’s & scientists involved & extremely enlightening.
We have an amazing TV personality here in the UK called Davina McCall. She has championed meno ever since she thought she was losing her mind in her mid 40’s & feared for her job in TV. She has done documentaries, streams, petitions, written books & endlessly banged the drum, so now people here actually listen. We have to pay for our prescriptions (even with health insurance) & each one is £9.60. So if I was on Estrogen, Prog & Testosterone, that would cost me £28.80 PER MONTH to feel sane & healthy. Davina took this up & lobbied Parliament, who agreed to introduce an annual subscription scheme that only costs each woman £20 per year. We are also introducing Menopause Awareness in the Workplace to educate even further. We have a Minister for Menopause in Parliament. We’re a long way off, but we are making huge headway.
And women are EMBRACING menopause! We are openly chatting amongst each other, comparing symptoms & discussing ways (other than HRT) which can improve our physical & mental health! Open water swimming & mindfulness are everywhere you look. We are all in this together, the men are waking up about it (because they have no choice) & it’s amazingly liberating!
If you can get it, I highly recommend Davina’s book “Menopausing” I devoured it last year & since then it’s been passed between my sisters & several friends. Very factual, many Dr’s & scientists involved & extremely enlightening.
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