I can’t choose! Which sapphire is better?

[Danna]

I’ve consulted with a gemologist and jeweller in my country who stocks two very beautiful certified sapphires. I’m purchasing for my engagement ring.

One is a certified sunset paparadscha (no treatment, natural colour!) The other is a beautiful heated blue Ceylon.
The blue has some zoning, but I’ve consulted about how this zoning can be minimised once it’s set and it doesn’t bother me. I thought I saw a window in the paparadscha but the jeweller has told me there is none.
The blue is $4500 AUD, the paparadscha is $5000 AUD, and this is a deal the jeweller/gemologist has given me. He had excellent reviews and I feel very comfortable with him.
Please let me know what you think!

 

[lovedogs]

That doesn't look like a pad sapphire to me at all. It looks brown/orange. Where is the report from? I find the blue much more appealing

 

[Danna]

That doesn't look like a pad sapphire to me at all. It looks brown/orange. Where is the report from? I find the blue much more appealing

Really?!? The report is from CGL labs: http://www.cgl-labs.com/. What classified a pap? I’ve heard it changes depending on lab.

 

[lovedogs]

Pad sapphires should be pink/orange. I see a muddy brown and wouldnt personally pay for that color. The blue color is nice, but I am afraid it will have areas of large extinction which will look blackish or very dark.

What is your ideal color of stone?

 

[Danna]

Pad sapphires should be pink/orange. I see a muddy brown and wouldnt personally pay for that color. The blue color is nice, but I am afraid it will have areas of large extinction which will look blackish or very dark.

What is your ideal color of stone?

That’s good to know. Gosh, this is so hard! Every time stone I think I’m settling on, I post here, and it ends up not being worth it! I’ve been searching for months.
I love any blues, teal, purple, violets, and padparaschas that aren’t too light/low in saturation. I think the hard thing is I am looking for a stone with good size (~9mm above in length). I have no issues with heat treatment. Got any tips where I can source a good stone?

 

[Cerulean]

Totally agree with @lovedogs

The “pad” to me is a hard pass unfortunately- it’s very brown and the cut isn’t nice to me. Big window. It doesn’t have the trademark pad coloration - whether or not labs disagree, a true pad has obvious orange and pink. This really doesn’t seem to - the designation of “pad” is coveted so demands a higher price tag - I’ve seen some outrageous examples of what some people call pads - but a reputable lab should reliably align with what you see visually for the name to be worth it- if the pink is there, it’s nearly indiscernible and seemed to have squeaked by

The blue has a much nicer color overall, but yes the extinction would bug me. I think it’s pretty common in certain fancy cuts for colored stones like pears

What is your budget? Can you show some visual examples of colors you like? As we’ve found out - some people have different ideas about what a color by name should look like!

 

[Danna]

Okay Pad is OFF the table. I suppose my top option at the moment is the blue. In a way, I almost like the zoning. I really enjoy stones that have different shades of the colour depending on the angle. That might sound stupid but is just my opinion. My only concern is how dark the stone might look in shade! Is there a way ro set a stone to enhance the brightness?
Get ready for a plethora of photos! Please exclude the muddy green or muddy yellow colours in these images - not my style. Also, any good PAD I am very keen on also. I love a wide range of colours; anything icy or rich or good saturation or multi coloured! I’m just having such a hard time finding a stone that doesn’t have some major downfall. My budget is $5000 AUD.

 

[Danna]

Totally agree with @lovedogs

The “pad” to me is a hard pass unfortunately- it’s very brown and the cut isn’t nice to me. Big window. It doesn’t have the trademark pad coloration - whether or not labs disagree, a true pad has obvious orange and pink. This really doesn’t seem to - the designation of “pad” is coveted so demands a higher price tag - I’ve seen some outrageous examples of what some people call pads - but a reputable lab should reliably align with what you see visually for the name to be worth it- if the pink is there, it’s nearly indiscernible and seemed to have squeaked by

The blue has a much nicer color overall, but yes the extinction would bug me. I think it’s pretty common in certain fancy cuts for colored stones like pears

What is your budget? Can you show some visual examples of colors you like? As we’ve found out - some people have different ideas about what a color by name should look like!

Hi! I accidentally posted my reply with image examples of colours I love as a new comment and not a reply! You can find it above. Thank you so much for your help!!!

 

[Cerulean]

Okay Pad is OFF the table. I suppose my top option at the moment is the blue. In a way, I almost like the zoning. I really enjoy stones that have different shades of the colour depending on the angle. That might sound stupid but is just my opinion. My only concern is how dark the stone might look in shade! Is there a way ro set a stone to enhance the brightness?
Get ready for a plethora of photos! Please exclude the muddy green or muddy yellow colours in these images - not my style. Also, any good PAD I am very keen on also. I love a wide range of colours; anything icy or rich or good saturation or multi coloured! I’m just having such a hard time finding a stone that doesn’t have some major downfall. My budget is $5000 AUD.

Gotcha - it seems like you like parti sapphires? That’s where there are zones of different color (ie polychromatic)

Extinction is another matter - it’s when parts of a gem blackout or go grey. Undesirable I think for anyone buying a colored gem. Because - why bother? You're buying for color!

Bright lively color for that budget and that size might be tricky to be honest - but I found one recently that is less saturated that I personally thought was lovely - great size, gorgeous cut, really clean, but only if you like lighter gems

https://www.thegemtrader.com/gems-ruby-sapphire/339-ct-burmese-bluish-violet-sapphire



@LilAlex (I think) posted an educational thread about photo editing - and I strongly suspect that many of those photos from Caleb on IG are edited, or the iPhone itself is automatically enhancing photos.

My point is - he sells stones for enticing prices. I do think many are too good to be true. I do not think he offers returns either - not sure if that matters to you

 

[Cerulean]

Generally stones darken when set - if you think a stone is darker than you like before being set - I don't think any setting will help FYI

 

[Cerulean]

Some I dug up with Gemfix - they are all over the map and please note that not all are 9mm - I also left a buffer for duties / shipping and didn't look over $3400 USD - trade off for size are some grey tones, inclusions and silk - the issue with not avoiding substantial downfalls are the trade off for size + price at play to be honest - many people here (myself included) would rather have more saturation for less size

Blues

Pear Shape Natural Blue Sapphire "Portuguese" Cut | 2.03cts | #11-1284 - Gemfix

Natural Cornflower Blue Sapphire Pear Drop Shape Modified Portuguese Cut

gemfix.com

Icy blues & montanas
(note that Montana sapphires notoriously have some grey, the middle one has a lot of grey, you either like it or you dont - if you want a pure hue, maybe not the best option but I spotted some Montanas in your inspo pics)

Unheated Round Blue Montana Sapphire "Octave" Cut | 2.19cts | #12-2027 - Gemfix

Uheated Untreated Natural Blue Montana Sapphire Round, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Unheated Grayish Blue Green Montana Sapphire Pear Portuguese Cut | 2.20cts | #12-2189 - Gemfix

Large Unheated Grayish Green Blue Pear Shape Brilliant Cut Natural Untreated Montana Sapphire Drop Shape, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Unheated Blue Green Round Montana Sapphire "Roulette" Cut | 2.10cts | #12-2040 - Gemfix

Teal Blue Green Unheated Untreated Natural Montana Sapphire Round, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Deep teal
(might be too dark - some teals can be muddy - others may need to weigh in)

Unheated Oval Sapphire Teal Blue Green Portuguese Cut | 2.64cts | #15-1428 - Gemfix

Unheated Teal Natural Blue Green Color Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut Untreated

gemfix.com

Untreated Sapphire Teal Blue Green Oval Portuguese Cut | 2.86cts | #15-1424 - Gemfix

Teal Natural Blue Green Aqua Color Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut unheated

gemfix.com

 

[Cerulean]

Last one so you don’t feel bombarded - it’s a curve ball because it doesn’t meet your size requirements at all.

But the color - OH THE COLOR - is to me, an ideal blue. Intensely vivid, a touch of silk... I am wholly biased because I frankly would buy this stone if I had an inch of budgetary leeway...it’s heated, $1850 USD and that includes shipping (at least to the US)

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The vendor is based in Sri Lanka. I’ve purchased from him, he’s been delightful to work with...but returns would be extremely difficult

 

[lovedogs]

The one @Cerulean posted above is great, and the gemfix ones are also excellent.

 

[winnietucker]

Last one so you don’t feel bombarded - it’s a curve ball because it doesn’t meet your size requirements at all.

But the color - OH THE COLOR - is to me, an ideal blue. Intensely vivid, a touch of silk... I am wholly biased because I frankly would buy this stone if I had an inch of budgetary leeway...it’s heated, $1850 USD and that includes shipping (at least to the US)

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The vendor is based in Sri Lanka. I’ve purchased from him, he’s been delightful to work with...but returns would be extremely difficult

Ooh this one & the blue Gemfix pear are so pretty!

 

[T L]

I don’t know if anyone mentioned this above as I didn’t read all the comments, but blue sapphires go a bit grayer indoors, so it should be viewed in artificial light, as well as outside.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Sapphire - Adamant International Ltd

Fine quality gemstones from Sri Lanka and East Africa. Ceylon sapphires, chrysoberyls, spinels, tourmalines, zircons, beryls, garnets and other gems.

www.adamantgems.com

They have some really nice sapphires and particolor as well.
I would check them out! A PSer(sorry, can't remember who) just bought a particolored and it's really pretty.
The cuts are great and the prices are better!

 

[luckygreen317]

I learned the hard way to consider the color saturation of the sapphire when set. I bought a deep vivid blue oval sapphire loose. Once set in a enclosed semi bezel, the color definitely went darker.
This setting was not intended for a sapphire and originally had a diamond. The sapphire is in the design process of reset with David Klass. This is 1.68 ct sapphire faces up more like a 1.25 ct.
I have found that a smaller intense color sapphire stands out much more than a larger stone with less intensity. If your stone size parameters are due to finger coverage, have you considered a halo or another setting style that enhances the sapphire size?
Good luck on your search!

 

[emmy12]

Have you looked at some of the Parti colored sapphires sold by Johny Dyer?

Did a quick search for stuff >2ct oval sapphires with traditional flat faceting, link below. He has some unique and non-traditional cutting styles (concave facets, etc). I personally love his Trillion cuts, but set it to ovals since that's what you've been looking mostly at.

Prices are reasonable and there's usually a video for all the stones too!

John Dyer Gem Catalog Search Results

Custom gem catalog search results

www.johndyergems.com

 

[Danna]

Some I dug up with Gemfix - they are all over the map and please note that not all are 9mm - I also left a buffer for duties / shipping and didn't look over $3400 USD - trade off for size are some grey tones, inclusions and silk - the issue with not avoiding substantial downfalls are the trade off for size + price at play to be honest - many people here (myself included) would rather have more saturation for less size

Blues

Pear Shape Natural Blue Sapphire "Portuguese" Cut | 2.03cts | #11-1284 - Gemfix

Natural Cornflower Blue Sapphire Pear Drop Shape Modified Portuguese Cut

gemfix.com

Icy blues & montanas
(note that Montana sapphires notoriously have some grey, the middle one has a lot of grey, you either like it or you dont - if you want a pure hue, maybe not the best option but I spotted some Montanas in your inspo pics)

Unheated Round Blue Montana Sapphire "Octave" Cut | 2.19cts | #12-2027 - Gemfix

Uheated Untreated Natural Blue Montana Sapphire Round, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Unheated Grayish Blue Green Montana Sapphire Pear Portuguese Cut | 2.20cts | #12-2189 - Gemfix

Large Unheated Grayish Green Blue Pear Shape Brilliant Cut Natural Untreated Montana Sapphire Drop Shape, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Unheated Blue Green Round Montana Sapphire "Roulette" Cut | 2.10cts | #12-2040 - Gemfix

Teal Blue Green Unheated Untreated Natural Montana Sapphire Round, Ethical Fair Trade Natural American Cut Sapphire from Gemfix

gemfix.com

Deep teal
(might be too dark - some teals can be muddy - others may need to weigh in)

Unheated Oval Sapphire Teal Blue Green Portuguese Cut | 2.64cts | #15-1428 - Gemfix

Unheated Teal Natural Blue Green Color Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut Untreated

gemfix.com

Untreated Sapphire Teal Blue Green Oval Portuguese Cut | 2.86cts | #15-1424 - Gemfix

Teal Natural Blue Green Aqua Color Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut unheated

gemfix.com

Thank you SO MUCH!!! This has helped me tremendously. I really adore both of the pears that you suggested. Do you know which one would be more desirable in terms of colour, cut etc?

 

[Danna]

Have you looked at some of the Parti colored sapphires sold by Johny Dyer?

Did a quick search for stuff >2ct oval sapphires with traditional flat faceting, link below. He has some unique and non-traditional cutting styles (concave facets, etc). I personally love his Trillion cuts, but set it to ovals since that's what you've been looking mostly at.

Prices are reasonable and there's usually a video for all the stones too!

John Dyer Gem Catalog Search Results

Custom gem catalog search results

www.johndyergems.com

Thank you! I'll definitely have a look at these!

 

[Danna]

I learned the hard way to consider the color saturation of the sapphire when set. I bought a deep vivid blue oval sapphire loose. Once set in a enclosed semi bezel, the color definitely went darker.
This setting was not intended for a sapphire and originally had a diamond. The sapphire is in the design process of reset with David Klass. This is 1.68 ct sapphire faces up more like a 1.25 ct.
I have found that a smaller intense color sapphire stands out much more than a larger stone with less intensity. If your stone size parameters are due to finger coverage, have you considered a halo or another setting style that enhances the sapphire size?
Good luck on your search!

Wow, this is great to know. Thanks very much. Definitely won't be going for the blue then. Looks amazing outdoors but would probably look far too dark in the ring.

 

[Danna]

Gotcha - it seems like you like parti sapphires? That’s where there are zones of different color (ie polychromatic)

Extinction is another matter - it’s when parts of a gem blackout or go grey. Undesirable I think for anyone buying a colored gem. Because - why bother? You're buying for color!

Bright lively color for that budget and that size might be tricky to be honest - but I found one recently that is less saturated that I personally thought was lovely - great size, gorgeous cut, really clean, but only if you like lighter gems

https://www.thegemtrader.com/gems-ruby-sapphire/339-ct-burmese-bluish-violet-sapphire



@LilAlex (I think) posted an educational thread about photo editing - and I strongly suspect that many of those photos from Caleb on IG are edited, or the iPhone itself is automatically enhancing photos.

My point is - he sells stones for enticing prices. I do think many are too good to be true. I do not think he offers returns either - not sure if that matters to you

This stone is also definitely on my shortlist, along with either of the pear Montana sapphires on gemfix you recommended me to. There's one more stone I'm looking at and I'd like your opinion on whether I should keep it on my shortlist, especially relative to the others. https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/912...bfd407b88f72c8c58dc5da8671e397534cc:912332372

Rogerio has excellent reviews and I very much trust his work. He's a precision cutter and has recut this stone himself. Please let me know what you think!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Wow ! @Danna
How excitting !
And congratulations

You have come to the right place for advice

i would say take your time, work on your favourite colour

i have a too dark saphire - not an ER and much less $$$ than your budget but it disappoints me so.
You don't want that with an ER

What setting are you considering?
(sorry if you have already answered this earlier)

I love the teal but to be honest (and im not a pink person) i love the idea of the pad and a pink ER
Ive always been so disappointed in most morganite ERs ive seen yet i want one ! A pad to be seems perfect - im sure you can find a better one

Good luck with your serch
and keep us all in the loupe

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you SO MUCH!!! This has helped me tremendously. I really adore both of the pears that you suggested. Do you know which one would be more desirable in terms of colour, cut etc?

Most folks would prefer the blue pear rather than a more grayish/steel tone of the Montana pear option. But gemfix is a great vendor and both look well cut.

 

[Danna]

Wow ! @Danna
How excitting !
And congratulations

You have come to the right place for advice

i would say take your time, work on your favourite colour

i have a too dark saphire - not an ER and much less $$$ than your budget but it disappoints me so.
You don't want that with an ER

What setting are you considering?
(sorry if you have already answered this earlier)

I love the teal but to be honest (and im not a pink person) i love the idea of the pad and a pink ER
Ive always been so disappointed in most morganite ERs ive seen yet i want one ! A pad to be seems perfect - im sure you can find a better one

Good luck with your serch
and keep us all in the loupe

Thank you so much! I've been searching for months. I started a complete novice and was just going to jump in to buying whatever pretty picture I found online. Luckily, I found this place and have received so much help and knowledge! I've got a shortlist of about 4 stones now, all of which are in this thread. I'm loving the blues (don't mind a lavender violet as well) with decent saturation.

For the setting I know I want a special diamond halo! I quite like a bit of asymmetry. The jeweller i worked with uses a very nice pale shade of 18k yellow gold, so I'll be going with that.

I've thrown out the idea of a pad. A lot of people have mentioned they are highly sought after stones with not much to offer visually. I think I just like the elitism of that stone, besides, getting a good one would be way out of my budget!

 

[Danna]

Most folks would prefer the blue pear rather than a more grayish/steel tone of the Montana pear option. But gemfix is a great vendor and both look well cut.

Thanks so much, this is really great to know. If you don't mind, I'd also like your opinion on this stone. This is one of the four stones on my shortlist, competing with the Montana sapphires and Burmese blue round above. https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/912...bfd407b88f72c8c58dc5da8671e397534cc:912332372

It's been cut by a very experienced precision cutter with a very good reputation. I'm very attracted to the colours in this stone.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Thank you so much! I've been searching for months. I started a complete novice and was just going to jump in to buying whatever pretty picture I found online. Luckily, I found this place and have received so much help and knowledge! I've got a shortlist of about 4 stones now, all of which are in this thread. I'm loving the blues (don't mind a lavender violet as well) with decent saturation.

For the setting I know I want a special diamond halo! I quite like a bit of asymmetry. The jeweller i worked with uses a very nice pale shade of 18k yellow gold, so I'll be going with that.

I've thrown out the idea of a pad. A lot of people have mentioned they are highly sought after stones with not much to offer visually. I think I just like the elitism of that stone, besides, getting a good one would be way out of my budget!

You have me at asymmetry !

I sure do wish i had found this place earlier

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks so much, this is really great to know. If you don't mind, I'd also like your opinion on this stone. This is one of the four stones on my shortlist, competing with the Montana sapphires and Burmese blue round above. https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/912...bfd407b88f72c8c58dc5da8671e397534cc:912332372

It's been cut by a very experienced precision cutter with a very good reputation. I'm very attracted to the colours in this stone.

I like this as well, and what colors *you* like are the most important thing. Both this and the gemfix Montana pear are nice and have this "steel" tone, but this one is more of a color change and doesnt have the greenish tones.

 

[Danna]

I like this as well, and what colors *you* like are the most important thing. Both this and the gemfix Montana pear are nice and have this "steel" tone, but this one is more of a color change and doesnt have the greenish tones.

Thank you!! I'm so glad to hear this. This is the first stone I chose myself that wasn't a complete flop!

The only other stone it's in competition with as well is this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h23k14js7a9k4hl/Video Apr 13, 1 15 53 PM.mov?dl=0

3.39 ct. Burmese Bluish-Violet Sapphire — The Gem Trader

Color: Medium Dark Bluish Violet Clarity: Eye Clean Origin: Mogok, Burma Cut: Round Mixed Treatments: Heat Only Measurements: 8.4 mm A very fine Burmese Sapphire of superb size and brilliance. Simply a gorgeous col

www.thegemtrader.com

This is a gorgeous colour change as well. Any thoughts?

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you!! I'm so glad to hear this. This is the first stone I chose myself that wasn't a complete flop!

The only other stone it's in competition with as well is this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h23k14js7a9k4hl/Video Apr 13, 1 15 53 PM.mov?dl=0

3.39 ct. Burmese Bluish-Violet Sapphire — The Gem Trader

Color: Medium Dark Bluish Violet Clarity: Eye Clean Origin: Mogok, Burma Cut: Round Mixed Treatments: Heat Only Measurements: 8.4 mm A very fine Burmese Sapphire of superb size and brilliance. Simply a gorgeous col

www.thegemtrader.com

This is a gorgeous colour change as well. Any thoughts?

I wouldn't call it a color change, but definitely has almost a bi-color look. Very pretty, but I'd be curious what it looks like when not in sunlight. I like the video from Rogerio because it's in shade so I feel like it shows the stone looking neither its "worst" or "best " , which I like. Which color/shade do you prefer?