I had an I diamond appraised today, and was told that it was a K.

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/30/2006 6:12:53 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 12/30/2006 6:11:08 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Well, OK, now that we''re circling the matter... There was someone who used to post on this board who had jokingly made up some ''rules.'' One of them was that you could go to your finger size minus one for a round and your finger size plus one for a fancy cut. (Hope I''m remembering the ''rule'' correctly -- senility at 36 is a terriblle thing, LOL.)

Um, yeah, that was one person''s imaginary rule! I''m with Dee Jay in that it matters most the circles one travels in.

I don''t agree with you guys. I mean I certainly understand what you''re saying and it''s totally valid.... but you have to please yourself more than anyone else - which means you should be JUST as happy with a 1/2 carat in a sea of 3 carat rings as you are with a 3 carat in a sea of 1/2 carat rings....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

More of Dee Jay''s stone:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-temporary-3-37-yes-i-did-it.47739/

 

[Dee*Jay]

Date: 12/30/2006 6:24:39 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
More of Dee Jay's stone:


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-temporary-3-37-yes-i-did-it.47739/

Harriet - this second link has much better pics of the stone, so if you're only gonna look at one link this is it.

(Thanks DS -- YOU'RE FAST!)

 

[SKR]

Harriet - regardless of whether you go for that stone or not, I would definately keep in touch with WF. They are one of the best vendors around and their ACA''s (from reputation) tend to be gorgeous.

 

[gail013]

I''m kind of late contibuting here, but I have a stone just over 3 carats, and is would be the equiv. to an expert cut, and it is a J color. I love it. Some of the pics I posted in the SMTR forum the other day do look pretty yellow because of the lighting that day, but in person it appears very white and it sparkles like crazy. I have had a lot of comments on it from people I don''t even know.

I had a much smaller marquis that was a H color and they look similar in color to me. They were both GIA graded. The 3 carat round I have now obviously gives off alot more fire.

 

[kenny]

Harrriet.
It sounds like the stone has never been in your possession, only with appraisers.

I hope you get to spend some time with it as you are making up your mind.
Hold it as long as WF will let you before deciding.
It is a big decision.

Yes the particulars of the transaction are key to your decision, but I believe you should also check in with the other side of the brain too. (or is it the heart?)

 

[SKR]

I am no expert but Dee Jay''s stone in thse pics looks very white to me. It''s probably down to the cut but looking at the pics I would have thought that it was a E/F or something higher up like that.

 

[Mara]

well color is also sooo subjective for the masses.

my nail salon owner and the gal who was working on my nails last week were raving over my ring and stone and kept saying ''is it a D? it looks so colorless''. and i know the salon owner prides herself on knowing jewelry, whenever she sees my stone she talks about how well cut it is. i said nope no D...they said oh it must be E then. i said nope. one gal said, maybe G? hahaha. basically they had no idea! i said J. the owner said oh J! and they both looked at it and then she said ''oh but it''s so well cut''.

i came home and was like hey greg did you know we accidentally bought a D? hee.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have rethought this and this is what I think now.

If Harriet thinks the stone is beautiful (which I am sure it is!), and can agree on an acceptable price, then I think she should get it. She can tell WF that she is interested in upgrading the color in the future and that they should notify her when such stones come in. That way she will have time to live with this stone and decide if it is her "forever" stone.

Three carat stones are rare, and there isn''t the luxury of having multiple hearts and arrows stones to choose from in this size range. It has excellent clarity and is wonderful in every way, other than the slight question about the color. Since we have people on here with 3 ct. J''s who are happy, then it is certainly possible that Harriet may truly fall in love with this stone.

So Harriet, in rethinking this situation, I encourage you to keep the stone knowing you can upgrade the color in the future if you wish! And I still can''t wait to see pictures of your ring!

 

[kenny]

Would it be too nosey of me to ask if WF has contacted AGS about this?
Probably.

And if WF returns funds to Harriet, are they not entitled to recover some appropriate amount from their supplier, who is entitled to recover some amount from AGS?

edit: Actually I just pulled out one of my AGS reports.
On the back they clearly state they are not liable for any loss resulting from any error in the document even if resulting from negligence of AGS labs. . . blah blah blah. . . etc. etc.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Kenny, it may be different with WF. If I understand correctly, they own the rough and have their own stones cut to meet Brian''s specifications. So it is not like they bought the stone after grading. They get the stones in from the cutter, do their own preliminary grading, post them on the site, send them to AGS, and then sell them.

 

[Mara]

WF cuts from rough, and i would imagine at that time they might eyeball what it might be after cutting in terms of color/clarity, seems like it'd be a really rough estimate since it's just a chunk of carbon at that point...i think that a small area is polished up so that they can use a loupe to look inside for color/clarity estimates? am i daydreaming here?

brian checks out whatever is cut before it goes to be graded...probably how they do their own preliminary grade while the stone is away at AGS/GIA. it could come back higher or lower than they expected. i would imagine it's not like they can then go back and say to their rough supplier, hey that block of rough diamond turned out to be a K...i want a discount! haha. but who knows maybe they can!

however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it's graded and significantly off, maybe there'd be some financial recourse from the supplier?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 12/30/2006 8:40:58 PM
Author: Mara
WF cuts from rough, and i would imagine at that time they might eyeball what it might be after cutting in terms of color/clarity, seems like it''d be a really rough estimate since it''s just a chunk of carbon at that point...i think that a small area is polished up so that they can use a loupe to look inside for color/clarity estimates? am i daydreaming here?

brian checks out whatever is cut before it goes to be graded. it could come back higher or lower than they expected. i would imagine it''s not like they can then go back and say to their rough supplier, hey that block of rough diamond turned out to be a K...i want a discount! haha.

however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it''s graded and significantly off, maybe there''d be some financial recourse from the supplier?

I''ve seen that addressed...they''ll simply return the stone to the supplier if it turns out not to be acceptable.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/30/2006 8:40:58 PM
Author: Mara
WF cuts from rough, and i would imagine at that time they might eyeball what it might be after cutting in terms of color/clarity, seems like it''d be a really rough estimate since it''s just a chunk of carbon at that point...i think that a small area is polished up so that they can use a loupe to look inside for color/clarity estimates? am i daydreaming here?

brian checks out whatever is cut before it goes to be graded...probably how they do their own preliminary grade while the stone is away at AGS/GIA. it could come back higher or lower than they expected. i would imagine it''s not like they can then go back and say to their rough supplier, hey that block of rough diamond turned out to be a K...i want a discount! haha. but who knows maybe they can!

however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it''s graded and significantly off, maybe there''d be some financial recourse from the supplier?

hmmmm....... I wonder how they decide which lab to send it to.... if they say, oh this is a borderline color, send it to AGS and this is a borderline cut, send it to GIA..... just curious!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/30/2006 8:40:58 PM
Author: Mara


however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it''s graded and significantly off, maybe there''d be some financial recourse from the supplier?

not likely, the trade person is expected to be expert enough to catch it and if they dont they get stuck.
If its on memo thats a different story.

In any business the more risk your willing to take the more profit.
In this case Brian didnt get the clarity grade he thought he would and a break on the color. Then got the break taken away. If he bought it at the higher color extimate and his clarity estimate then he is gonna hurt on the deal. Thats the diamond bizz for vendors.
If he held it long enough with the price increases he has some room before it hurts too bad.

But someone calling it a K isnt right either.

the current system just dont work very well all around.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/30/2006 8:51:16 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/30/2006 8:40:58 PM
Author: Mara
WF cuts from rough, and i would imagine at that time they might eyeball what it might be after cutting in terms of color/clarity, seems like it''d be a really rough estimate since it''s just a chunk of carbon at that point...i think that a small area is polished up so that they can use a loupe to look inside for color/clarity estimates? am i daydreaming here?

brian checks out whatever is cut before it goes to be graded...probably how they do their own preliminary grade while the stone is away at AGS/GIA. it could come back higher or lower than they expected. i would imagine it''s not like they can then go back and say to their rough supplier, hey that block of rough diamond turned out to be a K...i want a discount! haha. but who knows maybe they can!

however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it''s graded and significantly off, maybe there''d be some financial recourse from the supplier?

hmmmm....... I wonder how they decide which lab to send it to.... if they say, oh this is a borderline color, send it to AGS and this is a borderline cut, send it to GIA..... just curious!

All ACA''s go to AGS so if he sends it too another lab he loses the ACA premium.
That would make for a tough choice.

The lab game is played but not that often and a 3ct is one it might be on but not on an ACA.

 

[strmrdr]

ot: would be interesting to know if the Gia grading scandal has cut down on multiple reports.
ditching the lowest paper could get painful if found in discovery in a lawsuit.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/30/2006 9:02:09 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 12/30/2006 8:51:16 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/30/2006 8:40:58 PM
Author: Mara
WF cuts from rough, and i would imagine at that time they might eyeball what it might be after cutting in terms of color/clarity, seems like it''d be a really rough estimate since it''s just a chunk of carbon at that point...i think that a small area is polished up so that they can use a loupe to look inside for color/clarity estimates? am i daydreaming here?

brian checks out whatever is cut before it goes to be graded...probably how they do their own preliminary grade while the stone is away at AGS/GIA. it could come back higher or lower than they expected. i would imagine it''s not like they can then go back and say to their rough supplier, hey that block of rough diamond turned out to be a K...i want a discount! haha. but who knows maybe they can!

however for another vendor who buys the cut stone on expectation that it might be one color or clarity, if it''s graded and significantly off, maybe there''d be some financial recourse from the supplier?

hmmmm....... I wonder how they decide which lab to send it to.... if they say, oh this is a borderline color, send it to AGS and this is a borderline cut, send it to GIA..... just curious!

All ACA''s go to AGS so if he sends it too another lab he loses the ACA premium.
That would make for a tough choice.

The lab game is played but not that often and a 3ct is one it might be on but not on an ACA.

I didn''t know that - thanks storm! I take it they have defined "ACA" as being an AGS 0 with H&A?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/30/2006 9:23:00 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/30/2006 9:02:09 PM
Author: strmrdr

All ACA's go to AGS so if he sends it too another lab he loses the ACA premium.
That would make for a tough choice.

The lab game is played but not that often and a 3ct is one it might be on but not on an ACA.

I didn't know that - thanks storm! I take it they have defined 'ACA' as being an AGS 0 with H&A?

ags premium cert, ags0 grade, Brian's angle and facet specs, Brian's definition for true H&a, a chunk of Brian's heart == ACA

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/30/2006 11:14:01 PM
Author: strmrdr

ags premium cert, ags0 grade, Brian''s angle and facet specs, Brian''s definition for true H&a, a chunk of Brian''s heart == ACA

This has to be the best description I''ve ever seen of an ACA on Pricescope.

Well done.....very accurate.

 

[SKR]

Date: 12/31/2006 2:01:49 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 12/30/2006 11:14:01 PM
Author: strmrdr

ags premium cert, ags0 grade, Brian's angle and facet specs, Brian's definition for true H&a, a chunk of Brian's heart == ACA

This has to be the best description I've ever seen of an ACA on Pricescope.

Well done.....very accurate.

This is very true. WF value the ACA brand highly and they wouldnt just pick and chose labs in the hope of getting a favourable outcome. On balance AGS get things right probably 99.9% of the time. If you speak to Brian he would tell you straight up his opinion of a diamond and in the lower color grades where he thinks the color falls (ie which end of the spectrum). The people at WF dont do BS - they have a reputation to protect.

If I were looking for a round diamond and wanted H&A's - WF would without doubt be my first port of call and TBH more than likely I wouldnt even bother getting it appraised.

 

[Harriet]

I''ve bought the ring!

 

[jcrow]

Woo hoo!!!
can't wait to see the final project!

 

[Harriet]

I''m really curious to see it mounted and on my finger.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Great!

I think we are all looking forward to seeing your ring, Harriet!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/3/2007 4:42:55 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Great!

I think we are all looking forward to seeing your ring, Harriet!

Congrats, can''t wait to see it Harriet!!!!!

 

[jcrow]

it''s going to be stunning!

 

[mrssalvo]

that''s wonderful..what setting did you choose?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/3/2007 4:28:09 PM
Author: Harriet
I''ve bought the ring!

Well, WOOHOOO!

We need pics, pronto.

And congrats!

 

[Harriet]

Everyone,

Thanks for your input. The stone will be set in the classic 6-prong setting. I hope it will speak for itself.