I hope you guy are happy with Affordable Care Act

[recordaras]

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?

This is actually a fairly common question that I often hear from my friends abroad - no, hospitals do not have the right to turn down anyone. They will do all that is necessary to take care of you, however without insurance you will get billed for all of the procedures, and if we're talking semi-serious surgery that can run in the tens of thousands of dollars.
So you will live (and get some of the best medical care in the world), but at the same time you might have to go through bankruptcy and lose all your life savings afterwards.

 

[recordaras]

And as for insurance being offered by your employer, since it's very expensive to purchase insurance privately, companies often offer discounted health insurance as part of their benefits package.
So if you are an adult that's earning an income and without any special circumstances you do not have any kind of insurance available unless you buy it either privately or through your employer. Which obviously leads to many people opting out of purchasing any kind of healthcare plan -> Obamacare is trying to make insurance mandatory for everyone.

 

[missy]

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?

This is actually a fairly common question that I often hear from my friends abroad - no, hospitals do not have the right to turn down anyone. They will do all that is necessary to take care of you, however without insurance you will get billed for all of the procedures, and if we're talking semi-serious surgery that can run in the tens of thousands of dollars.
So you will live (and get some of the best medical care in the world), but at the same time you might have to go through bankruptcy and lose all your life savings afterwards.

Yes and that's why it is so important for everyone to have insurance. When I was growing up our neighbor used to collect high performance cars- very expensive. I point this out just to illustrate he had plenty of money and never deemed it important or necessary to get health insurance for him or his wife.

When he was in his 60's he suffered some medical setbacks (never had health insurance and never went to the doctors) and it practically bankrupted him. I say practically because unfortunately he died from his health condition last year (cancer among other things). He got some treatment and then opted against it because (more likely than not) of the money. From start to finish (diagnosis to death was less than a year).It's a real shame. He was such a nice guy. A terrible tragedy and now his wife is all alone. Every time I think about it I just cry.

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare. The cynic in me says it's all politics and in any case our government officials and their families have the best health care in the country that no one else can buy.
That fact alone pisses me off. They should be forced to deal with Obamacare just like all of us mere mortals living in the USA.

 

[Karl_K]

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?

They will do the min to patch you up and kick you out the door and send you a $20000.00 bill.
Actually these days its 20 bills totaling $20000 as every department now bills separate to get more money from medicare.
Then you are on your own to get follow up care which many can not get so they sometimes never get really well.

 

[recordaras]

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare.

This is one of the things that truly baffles me about the US - how any first world country (let alone one as prosperous as the US) can exist without universal healthcare for all its citizens in the XXI century is completely and utterly absurd. And it's not like it's rocket science - the rest of the world has managed to figure it out. But no, we can't copy those commies! And who cares if the obesity situation is spiraling out of control, people are losing everything because they got sick while they were between jobs, and many aren't getting the treatment they need due to financial concerns, we can't have SOCIALISM!

 

[ksinger]

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare.

This is one of the things that truly baffles me about the US - how any first world country (let alone one as prosperous as the US) can exist without universal healthcare for all its citizens in the XXI century is completely and utterly absurd. And it's not like it's rocket science - the rest of the world has managed to figure it out. But no, we can't copy those commies! And who cares if the obesity situation is spiraling out of control, people are losing everything because they got sick while they were between jobs, and many aren't getting the treatment they need due to financial concerns, we can't have SOCIALISM!

According to my husband, it harks back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century. I asked him to tell me where he read that, but he's busy nodding off, so.....try reading this for a bit of background as to how health insurance became entwined with employment in the US. Compulsory insurance was pushed early but was opposed by unions, physicians, and insurance companies. They succeeded pretty wildly in that opposition, I'd say.

http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1994/03/art1full.pdf

 

[neatfreak]

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?

This is actually a fairly common question that I often hear from my friends abroad - no, hospitals do not have the right to turn down anyone. They will do all that is necessary to take care of you, however without insurance you will get billed for all of the procedures, and if we're talking semi-serious surgery that can run in the tens of thousands of dollars.
So you will live (and get some of the best medical care in the world), but at the same time you might have to go through bankruptcy and lose all your life savings afterwards.

So that isn't exactly true. They are required to provide emergency care, i.e., save your life. Once you're patched up enough not to be in a life threatening situation many hospitals will ask for payment or ask you to go. Then when that wound gets infected and you have no insurance to go to a primary care doc? You'll end up back in that ER for another preventable visit. All at a hugely inflated cost to taxpayers.

If they think you'll be able to pay somehow, they'll treat you. But if you're poor and not able to pay at all, out the door you go.

That "revolving door" is one of the many, many reasons we needed reform in the US. Is the ACA perfect? Nope. But it's a first step towards reforming a system with outrageous costs and misaligned incentives for hospitals.

As someone who works in health policy you can't believe how much goes into passing just a little bill in a little state. Before you (and I mean everyone, not who I am quoting above!) criticize this law I suggest spending some time watching C-SPAN or your local state hearings being broadcast. It's a cluster**** and that's only the actual hearing. You'd be amazed that anything got done after living in that world for a few years. No matter your political party, it's like a three ring circus.

 

[recordaras]

According to my husband, it harks back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century. I asked him to tell me where he read that, but he's busy nodding off, so.....try reading this for a bit of background as to how health insurance became entwined with employment in the US. Compulsory insurance was pushed early but was opposed by unions, physicians, and insurance companies. They succeeded pretty wildly in that opposition, I'd say.

http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1994/03/art1full.pdf

Thanks, ksinger - it will definitely be an interesting read, since I've often wondered what the historical background there was.

So that isn't exactly true. They are required to provide emergency care, i.e., save your life. Once you're patched up enough not to be in a life threatening situation many hospitals will ask for payment or ask you to go.

Yes, it's the "save your life" part that people who don't live here typically don't understand - many think that if you don't have insurance and you come to the hospital with a life threatening condition they will actually turn you away and send you off to die if you don't have the necessary paperwork in order.

 

[Sakuracherry]

It's had to believe how expensive healthcare is in the U.S. In Japan, everybody has access to the national insurance and government pays 70% of the bill. The monthly payment depends on your income and age. I don't remember how much, but there's a limit for your out of pocket payment per year. You can pay about $30 per month and have a private insurance that would give you about $100/day in case you're hospitalized. I just wonder why some people have to suffer. Access to healthcare should not be a privilege. I don't have a good idea, but I do hope government improves the ACA.


I'm the same age with DF's daughter and have many friends who cannot afford to purchase any insurance. The company I work for asked almost everybody to keep their hours under 40 per week. They do offer insurance to full time employees, but want to cut down the cost. I don't know what I'd have done without the insurance my husband's work offers.

 

[MissGotRocks]

In these countries with national health care systems, are you allowed to bring legal action against a physician/hospital for malpractice? This colors a lot of our health care system. . .

 

[GliderPoss]

In these countries with national health care systems, are you allowed to bring legal action against a physician/hospital for malpractice? This colors a lot of our health care system. . .

As far as I know here in Australia - absolutely! Of course you will probably need to fork out for the initial legal costs or gain LegalAid but if you win your costs would probably be covered too. The whole litigation issue also seems much more prominant in the US (massive generalisation I know!) but I constantly read about people suing over the most ridiculous things!

 

[Sakuracherry]

MissGotRocks,

Yes. However, it does not happen often. If a hospital is used by a patient, it's a really big deal and goes all over TV and newspapers.

 

[craighnt]

Wow so much passionate discussion

Getting back to the topic at hand - I'm not sure I really follow the US system so maybe someone could help explain it to me?

Why is health insurance linked to your work company? What has that got to do with it?

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?

Insurance here in America is sold as a perk or extra benefit when tying to advertise for a job. Not all employers offer it, but up until recently, it was considered standard tradition for most professional jobs and even some minimum wage jobs. It is not a law, but as far as I can remember all my working life and my parents got insurance through their employer started some time after WW2.

It was really a cheap benefit to throw out when it first started. It was a two way street because companies with say 50, 100, or 1000 employees would get a big discount from the private insurance companies signing up all their employees with one provider. The business could then turn around and offer that to the employees as a side perk if they take the job.

It was never the focus of the job, though, it was more like a question you would ask at the end of an interview. "by the way do you have a health plan?" Of course they usually said yes, but it was a crap shoot as to what you got. Details were not discussed because you are on an interview for a job not insurance. Sometimes it was go, sometimes it was not so good.

You could buy insurance on your own, but as an individual, these companies considered this high risk because they assumed only people that intend to use it would buy it. Therefore the prices were always higher then in a job situation. And if you had anything like a pre-existing condition, they would all flat refuse to cover you. Insurance here is a business. They did not want to take on a clients they know would cost them money, they only wanted the healthy people that just kept paying premiums. This was totally legal.

Somewhere around the late 90's or 2000, the prices really started to skyrocket out of control. I was self employed at the time and my insurance premium went from $150 a month to around $600 a month before they dropped me. And, it was still not great insurance, still thousands of dollars ($4,000) out of pocket before they covered any expenses...That would reset every year.

The prices were so high, the insurance companies were making record profits, even the employers didn't know how to handle it. So the once almost always free perk was now only partially paid by the employer and the rest by the employee, but still a better deal. But even that got out of control.

This is what lead to the Affordable Care Act (AKA Obama Care). So while its not perfect and haters complain about high insurance cost, it was already out of control way before this president got elected.

So coming back to your point, what dose it have to do with business? NOTHING, It's a bad idea. As you know, other countries don't do this. It like a ball and chain if you work for a big company and want to start your own business or find a better job. You really think twice about leaving to an unknown of what the next company might offer. When you are young, its not big deal, but as you get older it really starts to become a real issue.

Unfortunately, some people can not contain their hate for certain people and have constructed all sorts of false arguments. One of the more popular ones is that it will force people out of jobs because small businesses wont be able to afford insurance. This is not true. Any business that employes 25 people or less full time is exempt for the law. Larger companies have to offer insurance to every employee or allow them to go into an exchange. So if the company chooses not by any insurance, then all the employees are allowed to use Obama Care to buy their own insurance at non-inflated rates.

The reality is, most companies will continue to offer health plans if they want to attract the best people. The vast majority of Americans are not on Obama Care. But its needed fill the gap. In my opinion, I think over time, years from now, more and more people will see the light and shift into Obama Care once they realize that its a good deal and they can finally be free from the employer based healthcare roulette.

 

[justginger]

In these countries with national health care systems, are you allowed to bring legal action against a physician/hospital for malpractice? This colors a lot of our health care system. . .

As far as I know here in Australia - absolutely! Of course you will probably need to fork out for the initial legal costs or gain LegalAid but if you win your costs would probably be covered too. The whole litigation issue also seems much more prominant in the US (massive generalisation I know!) but I constantly read about people suing over the most ridiculous things!

Yes, yes, yes. Yes, we can be sued. Australians are not so litigious as Americans are though (and it is a source of derision in conversations I've heard), so the frequency is far less and cases seem to require a higher burden of proof. The payout amounts are also more 'reasonable.' The general consensus seems to be that terrible things happen, but paying staggering amounts of money will not undo what has been done.

The first case that comes to mind for me, because I've been studying cervical cytology so much lately, is a case from the 90s of a woman who died of metastatic malignant cervical carcinoma, despite being screened every other year (as the guidelines here recommend), and having all negative smears. Once it was discovered how much the malignancy had progressed, she sued both her primary care physician and the pathology lab that handled her smears. When the Paps were reviewed by other individuals, they were all found to be unsatisfactory, with cellular detail obscured by marked amounts of inflammation. The correct diagnosis would have been to call each of them unsatisfactory (over the years) and have them recollected in <6 weeks. Instead, they were all called negative, while the cancer grew and spread. Anyway, even in this case of rather significantly negligent behavior, which culminated in her death at age 29, she was ruled in favor of, and the financial compensation was $400,000. It was not a multimillion dollar case, nor do many of those exist here. The biggest pay out, to my knowledge, happened a couple of years ago for a boy whose delivery was botched -- the mother received $9 million. There are no $20, 30, 50, 75 million payouts down here like there are there.

Perhaps a very viable option for saving people thousands of dollars in medical costs would be to set a realistic limit for malpractice litigation? Unless you have hard evidence of $70 million worth of future necessary medical treatments, I think those amounts of payouts are doing significant harm to an already strained system.

 

[neatfreak]

In these countries with national health care systems, are you allowed to bring legal action against a physician/hospital for malpractice? This colors a lot of our health care system. . .

As far as I know here in Australia - absolutely! Of course you will probably need to fork out for the initial legal costs or gain LegalAid but if you win your costs would probably be covered too. The whole litigation issue also seems much more prominant in the US (massive generalisation I know!) but I constantly read about people suing over the most ridiculous things!

Yes, yes, yes. Yes, we can be sued. Australians are not so litigious as Americans are though (and it is a source of derision in conversations I've heard), so the frequency is far less and cases seem to require a higher burden of proof. The payout amounts are also more 'reasonable.' The general consensus seems to be that terrible things happen, but paying staggering amounts of money will not undo what has been done.

The first case that comes to mind for me, because I've been studying cervical cytology so much lately, is a case from the 90s of a woman who died of metastatic malignant cervical carcinoma, despite being screened every other year (as the guidelines here recommend), and having all negative smears. Once it was discovered how much the malignancy had progressed, she sued both her primary care physician and the pathology lab that handled her smears. When the Paps were reviewed by other individuals, they were all found to be unsatisfactory, with cellular detail obscured by marked amounts of inflammation. The correct diagnosis would have been to call each of them unsatisfactory (over the years) and have them recollected in <6 weeks. Instead, they were all called negative, while the cancer grew and spread. Anyway, even in this case of rather significantly negligent behavior, which culminated in her death at age 29, she was ruled in favor of, and the financial compensation was $400,000. It was not a multimillion dollar case, nor do many of those exist here. The biggest pay out, to my knowledge, happened a couple of years ago for a boy whose delivery was botched -- the mother received $9 million. There are no $20, 30, 50, 75 million payouts down here like there are there.

Perhaps a very viable option for saving people thousands of dollars in medical costs would be to set a realistic limit for malpractice litigation? Unless you have hard evidence of $70 million worth of future necessary medical treatments, I think those amounts of payouts are doing significant harm to an already strained system.

Been trying for years justginger. The lawyers who make millions in fees off each of these cases (and there are a TON, it happens all the time, but patients usually are just suing their doc not the hospital, and a settlement is reached far before it reaches a courtroom) fight it and win every time. They have a lot of money and power.

In California we are one of the few states with a law that limits the pain and suffering component of malpractice (MICRA). As a result, docs can actually afford malpractice insurance here and we have a fairly robust and innovative health system. But every year without a doubt, the trial lawyers association here tries to remove it because by limiting the pain and suffering rewards offered to clients it docks their already exhorbitant fees. It disgusts me.

For example, a disgusting billboard that was run by the trial lawyers last year. What they DON'T tell you is that this poor little girl died of whooping cough. Oops, who is it that brought back whooping cough? The people who won't vaccinate. It has NOTHING to do with medical malpractice, yet that's where the money is and the trial lawyers don't believe $250k (current cap on pain and suffering) is enough. But really, is some extra money EVER going to be "enough" for the loss of a child? No.

Another favorite they like to use is a rich billionaire's two children who were killed while walking on a street ten years ago by a woman hopped up on prescription drugs who had been convicted before. His solution to this mess? Cap the MICRA law! That's what's wrong with this scenario! And drug test physicians while we're at it. C'mon. Most ridiculous reasoning ever, whether he can receive $250k per life for pain and suffering or $1mill per life, his children are still gone. It's tragic and awful, but MICRA should not be the target here.

Sorry for the rant, I live this everyday at my job, so I just get so ticked off.

 

[nkarma]

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare.

This is one of the things that truly baffles me about the US - how any first world country (let alone one as prosperous as the US) can exist without universal healthcare for all its citizens in the XXI century is completely and utterly absurd. And it's not like it's rocket science - the rest of the world has managed to figure it out. But no, we can't copy those commies! And who cares if the obesity situation is spiraling out of control, people are losing everything because they got sick while they were between jobs, and many aren't getting the treatment they need due to financial concerns, we can't have SOCIALISM!

It would help if you understood the culture/mentality of Americans more. While we are some of the kindest people you will meet, it is very much in our culture that every man, woman, or child fends for themselves. This is in part due to distrust of the government which is how we became a nation not to mention the immigrants that have escaped their previous governments. But is also fed by billionaire & corporate owned media & politicians who spew their agenda 24 hours a day playing very effectively on human psychology especially emotions such as fear and tribalism. This would not be as effective as it is though if there wasn't the general feeling that every person should take of themselves and if one falls, it's their fault & problem. It's in our blood. I have heard it from the most caring people you have ever met.... well educated poor people who are held down by the very system they defend whose families have been in the US for generations & educated middle class first generation Americans from tyrannical poor countries. DF is a good example of the latter but I am not thinking of him.

 

[missy]

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare.

This is one of the things that truly baffles me about the US - how any first world country (let alone one as prosperous as the US) can exist without universal healthcare for all its citizens in the XXI century is completely and utterly absurd. And it's not like it's rocket science - the rest of the world has managed to figure it out. But no, we can't copy those commies! And who cares if the obesity situation is spiraling out of control, people are losing everything because they got sick while they were between jobs, and many aren't getting the treatment they need due to financial concerns, we can't have SOCIALISM!

It would help if you understood the culture/mentality of Americans more. While we are some of the kindest people you will meet, it is very much in our culture that every man, woman, or child fends for themselves. This is in part due to distrust of the government which is how we became a nation not to mention the immigrants that have escaped their previous governments. But is also fed by billionaire & corporate owned media & politicians who spew their agenda 24 hours a day playing very effectively on human psychology especially emotions such as fear and tribalism. This would not be as effective as it is though if there wasn't the general feeling that every person should take of themselves and if one falls, it's their fault & problem. It's in our blood. I have heard it from the most caring people you have ever met.... well educated poor people who are held down by the very system they defend whose families have been in the US for generations & educated middle class people others who are first generation from tyrannical poor countries. DF is a good example.

Except we are sue crazy as a nation. I feel it is almost the opposite when it comes to accepting fault and we just want to pin it on someone else. The high cost of professional liability is slowly (not so slowly perhaps) strangling us. My gf is an ob/gyn and she had to drop the obstetrician part of her practice due to the exorbitant prof liability rates. Ridiculous.

Sure sometimes it is someone else's fault but often it is NOT but we have been taught that it is OK to sue because you are sure to get something and ofc sometimes it is easier to blame others than accept responsibility or accept the fact that sometimes shitty things happen for no good reason.

 

[nkarma]

Hotpozzum you are the second one to sing the praises of the Australian health care system and I am intrigued. I wonder why our powers that be didn't (or did they?) explore this while developing Obamacare.

This is one of the things that truly baffles me about the US - how any first world country (let alone one as prosperous as the US) can exist without universal healthcare for all its citizens in the XXI century is completely and utterly absurd. And it's not like it's rocket science - the rest of the world has managed to figure it out. But no, we can't copy those commies! And who cares if the obesity situation is spiraling out of control, people are losing everything because they got sick while they were between jobs, and many aren't getting the treatment they need due to financial concerns, we can't have SOCIALISM!

It would help if you understood the culture/mentality of Americans more. While we are some of the kindest people you will meet, it is very much in our culture that every man, woman, or child fends for themselves. This is in part due to distrust of the government which is how we became a nation not to mention the immigrants that have escaped their previous governments. But is also fed by billionaire & corporate owned media & politicians who spew their agenda 24 hours a day playing very effectively on human psychology especially emotions such as fear and tribalism. This would not be as effective as it is though if there wasn't the general feeling that every person should take of themselves and if one falls, it's their fault & problem. It's in our blood. I have heard it from the most caring people you have ever met.... well educated poor people who are held down by the very system they defend whose families have been in the US for generations & educated middle class people others who are first generation from tyrannical poor countries. DF is a good example.

Except we are sue crazy as a nation. I feel it is almost the opposite when it comes to accepting fault and we just want to pin it on someone else. The high cost of professional liability is slowly (not so slowly perhaps) strangling us. My gf is an ob/gyn and she had to drop the obstetrician part of her practice due to the exorbitant prof liability rates. Ridiculous.

Sure sometimes it is someone else's fault but often it is NOT but we have been taught that it is OK to sue because you are sure to get something and ofc sometimes it is easier to blame others than accept responsibility or accept the fact that sometimes shitty things happen for no good reason.

Just to clarify, I was not speaking of medical malpractice, but more so about why universal healthcare is not available in America.
I was speaking of the tens of millions of poor hungry adults & children who are "lazy" and don't work...their fault, oh well. A news person did a whole segment recently where he dressed up like a homeless person and was given money. When he revealed who he was, he asked the people why they gave him money, they all said he looked like he needed it and wanted to help him. He then spent several minutes talking about how stupid these people were for helping someone out.
I was speaking of the people with diseases especially mental ones...schziphrenia, addictions, PTSD as evidenced by the millions of homeless people in this country who get little help. I have had a liberal friend say to me, I think homeless people want to be homeless. US war veterans are a good example. We put ask them to go to war or draft them (Vietnam), then when they come back with PTSD, their problem!
I was speaking of the people who grow up in homes with abuse, poverty, mental illness, lack of education, etc... When I bring this up to friends, I often here well I had a hard life and I am okay, so these people are who aren't okay aren't strong enough.

My points above are to demonstrate how every American is in it for themselves, & need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I did not say any of this in this post or my post above to pass judgement on the status quo. It is just our culture.

 

[missy]

Thanks for the clarification karma. But I do think it is a real problem that people (as a generalization as we are all generalizing here anyway) do not want to accept personal responsibility for many things as illustrated by my post above. I certainly though do not think the homeless want to be homeless and many of them are mentally ill and need proper health care (mental and physical) and that people who are unemployed want to be unemployed. I do not know any people who want to be unemployed. But I totally get what you are saying that the perception by some (many?) is that it is the fault of those people but those are not people I care to associate with as those are not POV's I respect or agree with as a whole.

I did not say in this post or my post above to pass judgement. It is just our culture.

Sometimes it is OK to pass judgment and sometimes it isn't. I will pass judgment on people who cannot feel empathy for others. I accept responsibility for that as people need empathy to do the right thing. Whatever that might be. Isn't that what humanity is about-being humane, being kind, being compassionate? Heck, being human. Too many people forget we are talking about individuals, real people.

 

[nkarma]

Thanks for the clarification karma. But I do think it is a real problem that people (as a generalization as we are all generalizing here anyway) do not want to accept personal responsibility for many things as illustrated by my post above. I certainly though do not think the homeless want to be homeless and many of them are mentally ill and need proper health care (mental and physical) and that people who are unemployed want to be unemployed. I do not know any people who want to be unemployed. But I totally get what you are saying that the perception by some (many?) is that it is the fault of those people but those are not people I care to associate with as those are not POV's I respect or agree with as a whole.

I did not say in this post or my post above to pass judgement. It is just our culture.

Sometimes it is OK to pass judgment and sometimes it isn't. I will pass judgment on people who cannot feel empathy for others. I accept responsibility for that as people need empathy to do the right thing. Whatever that might be. Isn't that what humanity is about-being humane, being kind, being compassionate? Heck, being human. Too many people forget we are talking about individuals, real people.

Having said that I want to know why other countries with healthcare that works were not consulted. Seems we could have had a better chance of success sooner.

I never responded to your last very well written and thought out post regarding why you think access will be worse with ACA. Thank you so much for that. It's great to hear from someone who works in the medical industry. I learned so much about the system from you.

To try to answer your last question as to why other healthcare systems were not replicated or consulted. Part is most (all?) other countries have single payer system. The political landscape in the US is such that would never pass even in 2008. The other part likely has to do with the fact that it was not in corporate or personal special interest to implement them.

 

[missy]

Thanks for the clarification karma. But I do think it is a real problem that people (as a generalization as we are all generalizing here anyway) do not want to accept personal responsibility for many things as illustrated by my post above. I certainly though do not think the homeless want to be homeless and many of them are mentally ill and need proper health care (mental and physical) and that people who are unemployed want to be unemployed. I do not know any people who want to be unemployed. But I totally get what you are saying that the perception by some (many?) is that it is the fault of those people but those are not people I care to associate with as those are not POV's I respect or agree with as a whole.

I did not say in this post or my post above to pass judgement. It is just our culture.

Sometimes it is OK to pass judgment and sometimes it isn't. I will pass judgment on people who cannot feel empathy for others. I accept responsibility for that as people need empathy to do the right thing. Whatever that might be. Isn't that what humanity is about-being humane, being kind, being compassionate? Heck, being human. Too many people forget we are talking about individuals, real people.

Having said that I want to know why other countries with healthcare that works were not consulted. Seems we could have had a better chance of success sooner.

I never responded to your last very well written and thought out post regarding why you think access will be worse with ACA. Thank you so much for that. It's great to hear from someone who works in the medical industry. I learned so much about the system from you.

Thanks nkarma. I edited my post above because I realized that we already know the answer as to why the USA didn't consult other countries for a better chance of success for our new healthcare system. And thank you for taking the time to explain it from your point of view. I respect that sharing of info and also learned from you.