I know this is stupid. . .

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/28/2006 5:03:49 PM
Author: cellososweet
* i don't think people realize that this is more about the fact that he put his own excitement over my feelings.
* i'm upset that he didn't listen to me. maybe that's the bigger issue. why do i spell things out in black and white and he does it in color and doesn't understand why i'm not happy about it!?
* i seriously spelled it out for him about the public thing.

You don't always get what you what. That's life. I don't agree with your evaluation that he "put his own excitement" above your feelings. I think HE MADE A FREAKIN MISTAKE. I think he got over excited and nervous and you should dig into your heart to find COMPASSION for what HE might have been going through at that moment and not just think about YOURSELF.

He DID listen to you .. he MUST understand your anxiety situation after being around you THIS long .. but if this kind of anxiety/panic etc. is going to impact both of your lives it's YOUR REPSONSIBILITY to seek treatment. Is he really supposed to tip-toe around you the rest of your lives, listening carefully, hanging on your every word about what will & won't "upset you"? It's not like he dropped his pants and ran around naked ... or smashed a pie in your face ... or told your deepest secret. HE PROPOSED.

I think you might be experiencing a lot of anxiety about "melding" with someone. Someone else being so closely tied into your hopes & dreams & expectations. Learing how to forgive and move on is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY important. You can "catastrophise" this .. this was my "proposal" yadda yadda .... but the issue is more basic. He did something you don't like and you can't get over it. That's actually something for YOU to work on because, realistically, it's gonna keep happening. Your life isn't going to be one long unbroken string of events in which he puts your needs/wishes/desires above his own. He's HUMAN. So are YOU.


ETA:
So - you want black & white, he wants color ... WHO WINS? Does he have equal reason to be upset & stew & pout if things end up black & white? Why are YOUR needs more important than his? It's like you think your ANXIETY makes your NEED for Black & White AUTOMATICALLY trump his mere *desire* for COLOR. Well, sister, TREAT that anxiety ... you might start enjoying color .. or at least be able to tolerate it enough to compromise from time to time.

 

[TravelingGal]

Apologies for the semantics, but I did put "pay" in quotes for lack of a better word.

He apologized. He said sorry. You say that''s not enough. You want a "heartfelt" apology. Well, it''s been 10 months and you still feel the way you do, and he has not given you the apology you wanted. What does heartfelt mean? Does he have to grovel? Do a better proposal? I am not being facetious, but what would make you feel better, and have you told him?

And I don''t know your man (he sounds like a nice person, despite his overlooking your request) but I would bet he would screw up and not listen again. You''re gonna be married a long time. People screw up. Over and over again. Forgiveness is a good thing in marriage. Forgetting is even better.

I am a chick too. Believe me, despite the fact that I can "shrug" things off a little easier doesn''t mean that I don''t have feelings and that sometimes I experience them profoundly...and illogically! But one thing I have found is that I can''t make someone apologize the way I want them to. You have to see the heart behind the talk. If you honestly feel like your man doesn''t have the heart to back up his apology, I can understand your pain. I''ve been there. But honestly, short of forcing it out of him, what can you do if he doesn''t listen to a heart to heart talk? And btw, have you had a heart to heart yet about this?

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 9/28/2006 4:51:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
MINE, I added the ETA before I saw your reply. I can understand what you are saying, but I am wondering if she really can feel special about the proposal after all this time has passed...

Gotcha

WE are the same page here.. just expressing it differently

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/28/2006 6:13:25 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 9/28/2006 4:51:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
MINE, I added the ETA before I saw your reply. I can understand what you are saying, but I am wondering if she really can feel special about the proposal after all this time has passed...

Gotcha

WE are the same page here.. just expressing it differently

LOL...

Like I said, a lot of us have been there. A lot of us has been disappointed. A lot of us have found ways to deal with it...either by "getting over it" or getting a lovely proposal on a thesis paper.

I guess I would just like Cellosweet to be happy. She says this is not about the proposal, so a redo may not make her feel too much better about it. I guess the fundamental problem is that sometimes men don''t listen? Did you see my guestbook that my FI bought? I asked for something with a beach theme. My friend seems to think that he misunderstood beachy, sandy theme for DESERT sandy theme and somehow the snakey cover fits in with the desert sand theme.

I do hope you and your man sort this out Cellosweet.

 

[cellososweet]

wow. . . deco. . i don''t know if i said something snarky to you in the past, but you seem to be really digging into me. he was the one who said that he put his own excitement over my feelings. not me. i can handle people being brutally honest, thats fine. but i don''t think your blatant attack on me was neccesary or called for. i can''t be blunt as heck, but i wouldn''t jump down your throat if you had an issue. i''m sorry that you feel the need to do that.

anyways. . .i''m going to talk to him about this when he gets home. it''s his turn to cook tonight, so i think i''m going to cook instead to take some pressure off of him. and just for clarification, you can''t make an arguement on three beads. thats like looking at three diamonds in a necklace and declaring the necklace beautiful. i have forgiven him for the proposal because it''s not about that. and i have forgiven him for the public thing because it''s not about that either. i just still don''t feel like he understands why it hurts when he goes against something that makes me upset. i think thats a fair statement. i think he would, or anyone, would be upset if someone went completely against their wishes. and i''m talking away from proposals, etc. just in general. i feel like if you make something really clear to someone, they should at least think about what you said. i know the relationship isn''t about me and i what i want. i''ve listened over and over to him talk about how he feels about things and things that have happened in his life to make him feel certain ways. and when situations come up, i replay what''s he''s said in my head to take the actions that make him feel as comfortable as possible. why would i want to bring up negative feelings in him?

we''ll talk when he gets home. and i know he''ll be happy to. because, as others have said, he is a great guy. and he always says he wants to make me as happy and comfortable as i make him. i just don''t know if he knows how. and i realize that even if i spell it out, he might not get it all the time. and that''s fine. but i think it''s important for us both to know what makes the other tick so we can actively try to respect eachothers wishes. i think that sounds fair?

 

[cellososweet]

travelingal, haha, yes i saw your snakeskin morgue book. i didn''t comment yet because i didn''t have anything else to say besides what had been said already. an answer to your ?. . .

yes, we "talked" about it. but a heart to heart. no. and i think that is what i need to do. and i''m going to tonight. i think i came here because I DONT KNOW what would make me feel better. does that make sense? i was just hoping someone had an idea that would make me feel like he got it. ya know? i just can''t shake this feeling that he is going to go against my wishes again. to me, what happened is as bad as a "SUPER PUBLIC" on a scoreboard thing. for some people, it might''nt of been. for me, it was. mistakes are mistakes. but when you know exactly what not to do to make things uncomfortable and you do anyways. . .to me that''s different. ya know?

yes, men don''t listen sometimes. neither do women. and i''m a culprit for this as much as the next personm. i just feel like sometimes i try harder to make amends. make sense? i just want him to know that if i sincerely tell him a reason that something would make me uncomfortable, that he would do it. it''s not like socks on the floor or something, it''s big for me. thanks for all of your advice.

and p.s.- spilling coffee on that book seriously might be the way to go j/k. i dunno what to do about it. i won''t say to "let it go" because that would be insensitive. but i do think that if you don''t like it maybe you can cover it with a slipcover thing. just let him know that it looks kinda morgue-ish. i think my fiance would probably laugh if i put it that way.

 

[codex57]

Date: 9/28/2006 5:03:49 PM
Author: cellososweet

'i'm sorry' just doesn't make it feel like he understands. ya know? i just want to have the feeling that he understands that when i say not to do something because it is deeply personal for me, that he understands. i guess i'm just getting nervous because i don't want him to smash cake in my face either and i'm really adamant about that too. and i can just see him saying 'i got so caught up in the moment and was so excited.' ya know? .

Ok, now here's a legit beef and worry. Yeah, I think you just weren't clear in your original post as to what was really upsetting you. I thought it was mainly about the proposal and you wanting a do-over or something.

You're worried that he just said "Sorry" but didn't really mean it and didn't really listen. That's cool. Maybe he didn't. Do have that talk. Solves lots of problems. Guys don't like to communicate. However, be blunt about it. Just go, "Honey, please don't smash cake into my face. I know you may think it's cute and tradition. I don't like it. It makes me VERY uncomfortable. You should know how I am about being embarassed in public. It's my thing. So don't do it, ok? [You can add this next part depending on how dense your guy is] If you do, I will get the marriage annulled the next day. You hear me?"

 

[Mara]

cello i think that you definitely did not put out the real heart of the matter in the beginning which is that you feel like he doesn''t listen to you, respect your wishes etc. if it''s a CHRONIC issue then sure i can understand why you are worried. but IF that was a one time thing, i''m not sure why you can''t cut him a bit of slack. however, i''m not sure if it''s a chronic issue or a one time thing....but i do think if it was a one time thing and he just did it and he SAID he was sorry, then you should just let it go. if however he always does stuff like that, then yes i think you should work it out because there is obviously a deeper issue there. does he not take what you say seriously then?

there are times greg does things that totally piss me off. half the time he is like WHAT DID I DO. sometimes guys are just friggin clueless! it''s not always about what they are doing TO YOU. sometimes it''s just random..and they really don''t think. i think sometimes people in a relationship shouldn''t be so hard on each other! give each other a pass sometimes. forgiveness is really important. if this was a one time thing and he says he was sorry, what more do you really want from him? to swear he won''t smash cake in your face? will that make you actually feel better? if so, get that swear from him then.

it''s very hard to give ''advice'' or whatever when we don''t know either of you really, but we only have what you write to go off of.

 

[codex57]

I dunno if it's a good thing or whatever, but a lot of the times guys are clueless cuz we've never had to be clued in. I've noticed you girls are real careful about what you say to each other, how things will be construed, etc. Us guys don't do that. We do stuff to each other ALL the time that I know you girls would have a fit over how offensive it was. It's not offensive to us cuz we don't notice the offensiveness of it. Just went over our heads. If we do notice it, we blow it off. If pointed out to us, we say stuff like "Aww, he didn't mean anything by it. He's my boy."

I nearly got one of my best friends (and one of my groomsmen) arrested. Cops thought he stole a car cuz earlier, someone had reported the car as possibly stolen cuz it was seen tearing out of the back of a school parking lot. It was just me playing with his car before I picked him up from class. We swapped seats so he could drop me off at my car. Cops pulled up behind us as he was dropping me off. They had him up against the car and were frisking him and everything. Once I realized what was going on, I told the other cop guarding me. He realized it wasn't a stolen car and it was just me being stupid. They let my buddy go. Did my buddy have a right to be pissed at me? Sure. I was redlining his car and doing all sorts of stuff to his car without his permission. I got him frisked in public and nearly arrested. Etc. I just said, "Sorry dude." He said, "It's alright." And we now laugh about it. No hard feelings. No thought to how inconsiderate and stuff I was. We just don't think about stuff (like each other's feelings) like how you girls do.

When we get a girl, it can sometimes be hard to turn on that "sensitive" part. It's something unnatural to us so it takes us a while to get it right. That's why we're so dense to you guys all the time.

 

[cellososweet]

Mara, thanks for your input. it really helped. it''s not a chronic thing to this degree (me being really upset) but we do have some communication issues that we have been working on. (he comes from an abusive family and has been afraid to "speak his mind in the past" whereas i speak my mind on mostly everything). He''s gotten sooo much better on the communication front (of course because i wouldn''t marry him if he hadn''t). I just feel like this was a pretty big step backwards because it wasn''t a "little thing" like socks on the floor or the wrong kind of soy milk (those "miscommunications" usually just make me roll my eyes and laugh at how cute he is.) I think his getting excited is a problem though. Usually it''s a good thing. He''s so willing to help me and everyone else out but sometimes he runs too fast and doesn''t think. i think this is one of those times. but since it''s a "big" deal in comparison, i''m "feeling" it more.

codex57. . thanks. i didn''t really bring the issue up front in the first post. i tried to reword it later on, but i think it just got all jumbled.

thanks everyone, he''ll be home soon. we always go for a walk after dinner to talk about the other''s day and random stupid stuff to try and make the other laugh (like reading the street signs backwards. we''re weird). it''s always a good time to talk about things, big or small. i''ll gauge how his day went. if he''s really upset over something else, i''ll wait until tomorrow when i know he''ll have an easy day at work. don''t need to make him feel like crap if he''s already stressed.

thanks a bunch

 

[Mara]

Date: 9/28/2006 8:13:32 PM
Author: codex57
I dunno if it's a good thing or whatever, but a lot of the times guys are clueless cuz we've never had to be clued in. I've noticed you girls are real careful about what you say to each other, how things will be construed, etc. Us guys don't do that. We do stuff to each other ALL the time that I know you girls would have a fit over how offensive it was. It's not offensive to us cuz we don't notice the offensiveness of it. Just went over our heads. If we do notice it, we blow it off. If pointed out to us, we say stuff like 'Aww, he didn't mean anything by it. He's my boy.'

I nearly got one of my best friends (and one of my groomsmen) arrested. Cops thought he stole a car cuz earlier, someone had reported the car as possibly stolen cuz it was seen tearing out of the back of a school parking lot. It was just me playing with his car before I picked him up from class. We swapped seats so he could drop me off at my car. Cops pulled up behind us as he was dropping me off. They had him up against the car and were frisking him and everything. Once I realized what was going on, I told the other cop guarding me. He realized it wasn't a stolen car and it was just me being stupid. They let my buddy go. Did my buddy have a right to be pissed at me? Sure. I was redlining his car and doing all sorts of stuff to his car without his permission. I got him frisked in public and nearly arrested. Etc. I just said, 'Sorry dude.' He said, 'It's alright.' And we now laugh about it. No hard feelings. No thought to how inconsiderate and stuff I was. We just don't think about stuff (like each other's feelings) like how you girls do.

When we get a girl, it can sometimes be hard to turn on that 'sensitive' part. It's something unnatural to us so it takes us a while to get it right. That's why we're so dense to you guys all the time.

am dying. laughing. this is sooooo hilarious. BOYS!

cello keep us posted. of course everyone is just trying to help in their own way.

 

[sparkly_stars]

you know what? I completely understand what you''re trying to get accross.
it''s not the fact that he ''screwed'' up the proposal, its that you requested he not do it in public.
it''s simple. and it should have been simple for him.
it''s not like you requested a trip to paris bla bla.
and i can completely understand your feelings.

i think they are legit, despite what others feel.
BUT. i think something needs to be done, basically now. OR you need to let it go.
because resentment THIS early can cause way too much damage, and the issue really isnt THAT big. i know you love him, he loves you, bla bla.
and i know you''re just annoyed.

i''m also sure he gets this. so maybe, find a resolution that would make you totally happy, and move on!
maybe at the 1 year of the engagement he could "re-propse BUT with like an anniversary band or something else.. i dunno, just an idea.


i know you probably feel silly for feeling this way, i know i''d prolly feel the way you do (i get that way too, i dwell over things others dont understand BUT until i come to a resolution...it wont just "go away'' i cant just "get over it")

AND i know you just posted looking for some ideas!


so like i said "maybe the 1 year anniversary of the engagement"
maybe a re-proposal
maybe having something about the setting modified (adding a little red stone inside the band- to represent a heart! and make it special when he gives you the ring again.
whatever you pick, just make it between you and your FI. so that he can finally breath from his mistake.(we all make them, adn im sure if he knew exactly what it would take to make it better.. he would)



i know this has been long. but JUST a quick story to relate.
last year my bf "messed" up my bday, he got me a card, thats it. i iddnt want a great expensive gift but had specified that this bday WAS special to me, bla bla.
i was SUPER disapointed (because he gave me false hope bla bla)
you knwo what? i just wanted to BE over it. just let it go.but i couldnt.
\you know what it took? a month after he came up with a surprise and gave it to me. and he promised this year would be A ZILLION times better (ps. its this weekend SO IM EXCITED)!
this goes to show, that as silly as i felt. and KNEW i was being silly. well.. we came to a resolution, and ive let it go (i hated that i felt the way i did, and wish i could just have let it go. but honestly couldnt!)


k. done.

hope ANY of this helped!
good luck!

 

[diamondfan]

Obviously the marriage is what matters, but we all have our vision of our proposal and our peeves about what we do and do not want. He overlooked that, but not out of anything other than excitement. So, annoyed as I might be, I would likely just have him re do it and tell him NO SUPRISES in the future please.

My dh proposed to me in a very fancy restaurant in front of 20 people in my family, gathered to celebrate my 24th birthday and college graduation...I had double majored but had taken 2 years off in the middle to travel and see what I wanted in life. I was not happy. I had also made the no public thing pretty clear.

I have also reiterated many times I hate surprises. Hubby threw me a surprise 40th at a very fancy French restaurant in Philadelphia with 40 of my friends. I had emphatically stated NO to his questions about did I want a party or not. Many times I said NO. Yet, he did, and was pleased as punch with himself, so I looked like a bitch complaining, but honestly, I had not been feeling great and did not feel up to it. Luckily my two closest friends said let''s go to X for a nice birthday lunch, so at least my hair was nice and I had make up on and nice clothes, not my normal pony tail no makeup and sweats look. I would not have been happy to walk in looking bedraggled.

You will hopefully be married a long time. Sometimes men hear things and hear something underneath that is not there. I try to focus on if he loves me and is doing it out of love, I have to pick my battles. This stuff spilled over into could his parents be in the delivery room for our kids and all kinds of things. I learned I could absolutely put my foot down, but had to be willing to compromise on certain things. It all comes together in the end!!! Your wedding and ring and all sound wonderful and I am sure he is a gem!

 

[february2003bride]

Cello,

I totally understand! My proposal was tacky and it bothered me for years. And each time a friend got engaged, especially in a sweet, romantic way, it started an argument between DH and I. In fact, my best friend just got engaged last month and her FI proposed on a moonlit beach and I had a 2 day freeze out with DH because I was upset that my proposal was so crappy. And we''ve been married almost 4 years! DH has apologized and has said he''ll one day do a re-do proposal but that''s not what I want. For me, the moment has passed, way passed, and while it would be nice, there wouldn''t be that much significant value, other than making DH feel like I''ll finally stop bitching.

Anyway, one day during a discussion about it, he said that I really needed to get over it and move on. That at the end of the day, our marriage, not the question or the ring, was what mattered most. He was right (damn it

) and while I''m sure it''ll still make me a bit envious when a friend or relative gets engaged in a romantic way, I need to drop it.

I get the feeling that you''re concerned that since he ignored/forgot about your wish about no public proposal that he''ll forget about your feelings/opinions in the future. And after 4 years of marriage I''m here to tell you that he will! And vice versa. It happens, your human, he''s human and we all make mistakes. He got swept up in the moment and proposed in public. Worse things can happen, right? And the proposal was as much HIS moment as it was yours. And if you are really concerned that this is a more serious issue (lack of communication) then that needs to be addressed.

DH proposed to his first wife at the strike of 12 on New Year''s Eve in the middle of Times Square and 6 years later they were divorced. He proposed to me in his bedroom after 2 years of dating after a Halloween party he had thrown, while I was naked and he was tipsy and dressed as Zorro, but we have a wonderful marriage. Perfect? Oh hell no

But pretty damn good.

If you are really worried that he''ll always dismiss your feelings, then you should take a step back and decide if he''s the person for you. And if he is, can the communication issue be resolved. But don''t harp on the proposal any longer. It''ll just take away from what sounded like a very lovely proposal. Your way? No, but we can''t control everything.

 

[february2003bride]

Date: 9/28/2006 8:37:29 PM
Author: diamondfan
Obviously the marriage is what matters, but we all have our vision of our proposal and our peeves about what we do and do not want. He overlooked that, but not out of anything other than excitement. So, annoyed as I might be, I would likely just have him re do it and tell him NO SUPRISES in the future please.

My dh proposed to me in a very fancy restaurant in front of 20 people in my family, gathered to celebrate my 24th birthday and college graduation...I had double majored but had taken 2 years off in the middle to travel and see what I wanted in life. I was not happy. I had also made the no public thing pretty clear.

I have also reiterated many times I hate surprises. Hubby threw me a surprise 40th at a very fancy French restaurant in Philadelphia with 40 of my friends. I had emphatically stated NO to his questions about did I want a party or not. Many times I said NO. Yet, he did, and was pleased as punch with himself, so I looked like a bitch complaining, but honestly, I had not been feeling great and did not feel up to it. Luckily my two closest friends said let''s go to X for a nice birthday lunch, so at least my hair was nice and I had make up on and nice clothes, not my normal pony tail no makeup and sweats look. I would not have been happy to walk in looking bedraggled.

You will hopefully be married a long time. Sometimes men hear things and hear something underneath that is not there. I try to focus on if he loves me and is doing it out of love, I have to pick my battles. This stuff spilled over into could his parents be in the delivery room for our kids and all kinds of things. I learned I could absolutely put my foot down, but had to be willing to compromise on certain things. It all comes together in the end!!! Your wedding and ring and all sound wonderful and I am sure he is a gem!

So true! I swear that''s a mantra for marriage AND raising kids! Would I rather stand my ground on really important issues or keep picking away at smaller ones? Or worse, pick every battle and eventually lose my DH?

 

[diamondfan]

February, you are smart! I have a teen ager and I could scream sometimes he is sooo stubborn but I would go mental if I fought with him over everything. I recall a saying about the price of being right, meaning you might "win" but what have you really accomplished? Of course, state your feelings on the important things, but some things just have to go by the wayside for the general good!

 

[VRBeauty]

Cellososweet:

I''m going to ask your forgiveness in advance for what I''m about to write. I have no real credentials to help you figure out what''s really going on here or to offer you any advice, and yet that''s what I''m about to do

. I''m guessing that this has very little to do with the proposal, and a lot to do with trust.

If I''m wrong and this is about the proposal, you should probably say your piece and then work on letting go of your hurt.

If on the other hand this is about trust -- whether you can trust him with your feelings, trust him to have your back, trust him to put your needs before his when it really counts -- that''s a far more serious matter. And it''s entirely possible that you''re both contributing to the chasm. You''ve written about abuse and communication issues in his background. Is it possible that your own fears or insecurities are also contributing? If it''s a trust issue it''s something that you should resolve sooner rather than later, either on your own (plural) or with professional help.

Good luck!

 

[lilmissjaja]

I guess he was caught up with the moment that he just forget about your wishes. We do that sometimes. Please don''t hold it against him, and don''t turn it into a grudge or some kind.

What makes me wonder is why is the ''proposal'' is such a big thing, you do realize that he is gonna propose anyway, and you know that you are going to say yes...you know you want to spend the rest of your life with him...

Personally for me, it''s the marriage itself that is most important. It is not about the roses, the moonlight, how our profile looks best in candle glow, pre-manicured fingers.. what he wears.. whether his proposal is eloquent enough.. etc...

But it is about ''he'' being commited to you, and you him.

My two cent

 

[jesterjigger]

My two cents...since you posted on a public board...I would get over the proposal...it''s his engagement too! Why can''t he do something that he wants? I would just be happy that he was so excited to do it and that he''s so thrilled to be marrying you. At least, that''s how I feel if this is the only thing like this that he''s done. It wasn''t just your proposal, let him have some fun, I think it''s sweet and a wonderful sign that he wanted to include your family as well. But...I''m with you on the cake smashing. I''ve already told my FI that if any cake smashing ensues after we cut the cake at our wedding I will present him with the divorce papers then and there...to me that is a respect issue, not a respect of my wishes so much as a respect of me. The proposal was so long ago I really think you should focus on the fact that you are engaged to the man you love and are going to spend the rest of your life with him. How you got there isn''t so important, especially if it was a one time thing.

 

[ladykemma]

let me remind you of the joy you posted a few months ago....

It happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He asked my parents. . .and they were elated. We went to dinner. My Mum, Dad and the both of us. My "feeling" ended up being right. I told him I had a knot in my stomach because of the stressful week i had. He told me he could relieve my knot. I asked him "how" He said, "you could marry me." I started freaking out and then he got on one knee. I was so excited I couldn''t even remember what was said. All I know is he said I love you and there is nobody else I rather spend my life with and asked me to be his wife. I told him he was the only one that I could watch Cops in my underwear with and that, "of course i''ll marry you!" Classy huh? Hahaha. . .

Here is my Tacori. . . the only one i wanted. Ever!
I refuse to ask for "stats" because i feel like it''s being superficial (just my opinion). I do know that the center stone is 1 ct and that there are 24 tiny diamonds around it and 8 underneath. This, on the tacori site, it Bridal I, ring VII, i believe.

I tried to take good shots but i BLOW at it. . .this is as good as it gets.

 

[ephemery1]

Cello, I definitely understand that awful feeling of something just sitting there in your heart, nagging at you for that long

.... but I also understand that you're seeing this as a matter of respect for your wishes more than just a proposal-gone-wrong... and that is truly what is eating at you. In which case, I don't think just replacing the proposal is going to help you... those underlying hurt feelings of "why didn't he just listen to me the first time?" are still going to be there. Look at it this way: Do you really want another, more private proposal nearly a year later? Or do you mostly just want for him to understand you and what makes you happiest?

I think it's really important to sit down and talk with him, so he sees that what he might think is insignificant, was actually HUGE to you. It'll be good for both of you to understand: A) why he chose to do it that way anyway... and B) that his disregard of your request felt uncomfortable to you.

For example: "I know it sounds silly, but there is something that has been bothering me for a while... I was so thrilled and excited when you proposed, and you know I can't wait to marry you... but it felt really weird that you did the proposal in public even though I asked you not to. Was that cause you felt like it was the best way to surprise me?"

And see what he says... he may have a good explanation... like he'd planned on doing it privately but then got SO nervous/excited that he just had to do it then and there. Which is fair, I think... not disregarding YOUR feelings... just trying to handle his own. Or maybe he didn't even consider a restauarant with your family "public"? Maybe public to him meant a baseball stadium

... who knows? But I REALLY think the best way of getting to the bottom of these bad feelings is just to foster some sort of mutual understanding... and after that, decide if you still want to redo the proposal.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/28/2006 4:11:48 PM
Author: cellososweet

i am upset that my fiance went against something that deeply upsets me and makes me horifically anxiety-filled (and not the good kind). He knew the one thing in the world that would make me upset and i feel like he thought about his own feelings over mine. there. . .

i think that''s better.

so my question really is. . . how do i get over the feeling that my fiance values his own feelings more than mine. And yes, it really is just this one situation. but since it''s so big, it just really *sticks* ya know?

Perhaps by coming to realize that this wasn''t an instance of him valuing his own feelings over yours. At that singular, exuberant moment, he wasn''t thinking about your feelings or his. Sweetie, he wasn''t thinking at ALL....he was just going with the moment.

I really don''t think it was a conscious choice to disregard. It was a spontaneous moment swept up in the excitement of proposing.

Some moments in life are rational and analytical, and they are well-thought out. Other moments are emotional, and we don''t really *think* in those moments.

Having been married a couple of years now, I can tell you this won''t be the first time you feel that way.....and that he will have times that he feels you disregarded his feelings, too. Marriage is about working through those together.

 

[Mara]

ITA Alj...in fact I was just thinking this over last nite as well.

There will be times in the marriage when you wonder the same thing cello. How could he do THAT knowing I hate it. Or how could he say THAT knowing how I feel about XYZ. You are SURE that he must have been just being an ass or something. But in reality, he probably just was pulling a typical boy moment. Many men have those.

Quite honestly, I think that the expectation that two people in a relationship consider each other's feelings 24/7 at all hours of the day is unrealistic. Of course you STRIVE to always respect your partner and pay them heed but quite simply no one is perfect and there are just times when I think that you have to sit down, examine the whole situation and decide. Is this really about ME? Or could this just have been some stupid mistake, heat of the moment, whatever. Many times Greg acts without thinking about ME. Do I get upset? Maybe. It depends on the situation. Do I question his love for me? Or his committment to our marriage? NO. I'm sure he feels the same way about things sometimes. In fact we have had conversations about things that totally peeve him and don't faze me.

Here's an example and it's nothing like your scale of the public proposal but it shows how miscommunications can really kind of tweak you both. Greg is kind of a anal neat freak. I tend to be forgetful (ADD or something) and I always leave things around. Empty cups, cereal bowls, projects I was working on. I eat or drink or scribble some notes, put it down and then walk away. Hours later Greg comes and finds those things. They drive him INSANE. He throws them away, washes the bowls, whatever. And stews. He is sure that I am purposefully leaving them around just to piss him off!!! Or that I think he is my maid. The story varies.

Anyway, when he finally comes out with it, like days later, he's blown it up in his mind and of course I am in the wrong. I would explain how I just forgot the bowl or whatever and if he had just left it there, when I came back home or came downstairs I'd have cleaned it up. He scoffs because HE cleaned it up so he doesn't really know if that's true or not but just figures I am covering my butt.

In any case, we had a bunch of these mini arguments the first year we lived together. Every time he would get so upset !! And I was always like 'man chill out! i mean what is the big deal here? so you washed an extra bowl?? i don't get it? i wash your bowls too!' But he was just OBSESSED with focusing on how he was feeling about the bowls and how I was not paying attention to what HE wanted which was to pick up after myself.

Anyway recently...he told me that he realized that ....that is JUST THE WAY I AM! That I don't do it because I'm lazy or spiteful or just trying to piss him off (he used to think that!), but that I am just a forgetful person and I wander away after doing something and the cleanup or whatever totally slips my mind. I'll remember it a few hours later or whatever but by then it's driving him insane. In any case, I was so happy he came to the realization that I am just a DUMBASS and that it has nothing to do directly with him. Changing one's habits or personality is super hard. I have tried to be better, in fact I really am a lot better than when I lived alone and had my own space. But I can't be perfect for him all the time. And he finally realizes it. Does he still get P'O'd if I forget a bowl? Sometimes. But he's more likely to not internalize it and stew about it and be sure that I'm just trying to upset him. It's not about HIM. It's just about me being a dumbass.

So anyway of course that is not your same situation but it's the pefect example of where GREG is thinking 'why is she not considering my feelings more about this situation that i feel really strongly about?'. He probably felt unheard as well even though I DID hear him, and I would say I was sorry. I *was* sorry!!! But it didn't always keep me from doing it again. So now that he realizes that it has nothing to do with him, he's happier about the whole thing, a little more able to let it go and move on with the day and not stew on it.

This is just one instance of what it's like in a marriage! Hahaa. There will be compromises, times when your mate does something really stupid and MAYBE it's a chronic issue! We had 'talks' about my 'leaving' habit but it was really hard for me to stop!! I mean come on, like 10 years of doing something and you just change? Super hard. Plus in the scheme of things, it's such a tiny battle and he realizes that. So I leave a bowl around or an empty glass sometimes. At least I pick up my towel. Hahaha.

Hope this helped. This is what I meant earlier when I was saying 'get over it'. Sometimes stuff is HARD to get over. But unless you sit there and stew on it and turn it into a huge huge thing that needs 20 discussions, you CAN work at being a bit more flexible about things and not so 'its all about what he did to me' kinda thing. You have to learn to just put stuff aside and be able to move on for the most part. Or else it will just fester inside. Once you guys get married, its a partnership. You against the world. You are taking on a new mate, and that means their strengths and their weaknesses too!

 

[cellososweet]

Good morning everyone

Me and FI talked last night. Not about the proposal, but about my feeling that he has his own agenda on things sometimes and i feel like he doesn''t think about my feelings. He has ADD really badly and he told me that sometimes he gets so caught up in what he thinks hes supposed to be doing (predisposed sociological norms) that he forgets that it might make me uncomfortable or it might not be appropriate.

I eased into the proposal and related it to the cake smashing. he understood the similarity in that its something i feel strongly about and also something i''m anxious that he''ll get caught up in the moment again and not remember. maybe that doesn''t make sense. but it did for us.

he apologized for the fact that he didnt slow down and told me that this is a really big problem for him. not just with us but with college it was too. he''d know how to do a calculation perfectly well but when the test came, he''d get all excited to show his stuff, plow through it without thinking first, and blow it. he said he feels like he does this a lot and is frustrated. i don''t really know how to help him with that. but i told him if i could help, then i would.

i''ve helped on this before with speeches and stuff he''s had to give. he plows through and forgets half of his speech so i help him with his notes so they''ll be more concise. he told me he wishes he could write note cards for life. he kind of does. he writes stick it notes all over everything in the house ( and i mean allll over the house. anyone seen a beautiful mind? our kitchen looks like his office sometimes). poor man.

it really hurts me that he struggles with this and i''m glad that we talked. i know that he struggles with it but i thought that on the really important things (like me smushing it into his head over and over about the public thing or really strong about the cake thing) that he would remember.

he really just wants to do what he thinks i want, even if i spell it out for him. he says that he does what he thinks a good fiance should do without thinking about what his fiancee would like. he has an issue with unconventionality. i''m certainly unconventional. he says that he knows that it must be just as frustrating for me as it is for him. i guess it''s something that i have to deal with understand and i told him that i do understand and that we can find a way to help eachother out. me helping him to sloooooow down before he does things (because this has been slightly problematic at work as well on a few occasions- he does financial consulting. going too fast? bad idea). and he could help me out by asking me to repeat what it is i would like to do or something. or asking me to text message or write things down for him. (he said reading things is a LOT better than just hearing them). His mind tends to stop and read, but keeps going when people are talking.

*sigh*

i knew he has ADD and i knew that it really affected his life, but i didn''t know that it was this bad. and i guess i was just really upset because i didn''t realize how frustrating it was for him. Does that make sense? i felt like it was a "whatever" situation to him that didn''t affect him so much (because he doesn''t really say anything about it). and i guess since he was like "whatever" about it, i thought it was him being unattentive and not caring, not him being ADD.

hope this makes sense.

he told me that he wants to make it up to me and i told him that wasn''t the point, that i just wanted to know that he got it. Seeing his face and his explanation (he didn''t word it like an excuse, just and explanation) let me know that he did understand. but, because he''s still stuck on the prince charming thing.

this is something that we''ll really have to work on. he has to stop being prince charming and start listening to what i really want (which is for him to stop putting pressure on himself and just sloooow down). and i have to stop thinking that he''s not aware of what he''s doing and isn''t frustrated by it.

Mouthful huh?

to everyone who read all of my posts and not just read the first one and jumped from there, thanks. i really really appreciate it.

 

[cellososweet]

mara, hon, we were posting at the same time i think. thanks so much for this story. I''m sooooo glad i decided to live with FI before marriage for that reason. he is NOTORIOUS for leaving his shoes out. and not just out. but in places that are good for people to trip and break their ankles over them (in doorways, peeping out from underneath the sofa). i used to get so irritated about it. now i just pick them up and put them in the closet. i know he doesn''t mean to, he just does it. and when he does put them away, i make sure to "notice" and say thanks and hug him from behind when he''s on the computer or something. ya know? he also leaves his smelly sneakers out, doesn''t do dishes until they smell, etc. haha. lovely. but we''ve realllly compromised on the house over the past year and i seriously am glad we did the before marriage live-in thing. it was a really good learning experience. you''re story made me giggle. reminds me of FI so much. thanks

 

[Mara]

yeah i saw your post right after mine and thought oh thats kind of what i was saying re: me being forgetful or just serious spacing out. it sounds like your fiance is stressing out so much over small details to be sure he gets them right, that he forgets BIG issues like ''i hate public proposals''.

i didn''t realize he had ADD but it does make sense from your last post. has he had any therapy for it? sometimes experts can give people behavioral exercises to work on that will help rather than just giving medication. maybe you can look into it for him. not sure if he is open to it...but i think many times you can re-train your brain to do what you want it to over time...but it just takes some serious work.

in any case, after reading your last post, it totally makes sense what happened. hopefully with a bit of coaching and maybe a bit of therapy he can learn how to focus on what he NEEDS to rather than minute details that just distract him? also around the cake time...i would just be sure that when you guys have the cake in your hand, if you know it''s a sensitive subject for you and internally he may be freaking out...you might just want to whisper in his ear ''remember no cake in the face''...right before it''s his turn. i think if you can remind him of things that you know might be a hot button for you before they happen, they might snap him back to ''oh this is a big issue, thats right'' before something bad happens. now that you have an idea of what is going on...you can also work a bit to help him to stay on track.

good luck!!

 

[cellososweet]

hey mara. . i actually used to work at an ADD clinic giving neurofeedback. ironic right? yeah, he is getting therapy for childhood issues and for ADD and he has come a loooong way. the conversation we had last night could have never happened a few years ago. he would have shut down and felt stupid and gotten really defensive. he''s really grown a lot and realizes that this isn''t about "right and wrong" or "my way or his way" but about making things harmonious. thanks for your advice about the whispering on the cake. i think that is probably the best idea ive gotten so far. i think he needs a small, non invasive, reminder during things to snap him out of his zooming mind track.

 

[plantationcatt]

cello, sorry I''m so late catching up on this..but I just wanted to tell you that I read all the way through and that I am so pleased with how your talk went. I must say I can empathize a wee bit with my proposal, it was at a terrible time...but he just wasn''t thinking at all, he was just so freakin'' excited to propose. Yeah, I wish it had been at a better time, but oh well. We love each other and I know he wanted it to be the best for me...and now that you know your man meant the same I know it will give your mind and your heart some peace. I really want you to know I''m thinking about you and am so glad things are working out on the upswing. Keep us posted, dear!