I Love Boobies - The controversy

[Haven]

Kenny--I think I am doing a poor job of explaining myself, let me try again.

When there is clearly no simple answer to whether something is right or wrong, *I* believe there is some insight to be gained by listening to the opinions or reactions of those who are in the affected group. That's all. It sounds like you might believe this to be a straightforward issue of right vs. wrong, and if so, then our disagreement lies on that point. I think most issues have gray areas.

Something that comes to mind is the Heinz dilemma scenario, are you familiar with that? That is what I'm trying to express.

Okay, your ideas have been too interesting. Please stop. I must read my paper.

 

[kenny]

Kenny--I think I am doing a poor job of explaining myself, let me try again.

When there is clearly no simple answer to whether something is right or wrong, *I* believe there is some insight to be gained by listening to the opinions or reactions of those who are in the affected group. That's all. It sounds like you might believe this to be a straightforward issue of right vs. wrong, and if so, then our disagreement lies on that point. I think most issues have gray areas.

Something that comes to mind is the Heinz dilemma scenario, are you familiar with that? That is what I'm trying to express.

Okay, your ideas have been too interesting. Please stop. I must read my paper.

It's okay; I think we both have good points, I respect you and yours, and it's interesting playing volleyball with you.
Now go read your paper.

 

[oddoneout]

Crap I still can't figure out how to quote someone on the new Pricescope.....

I totally agree with Somethingshiny.

 

[kenny]

Pick one:

1. A few adolescent boys giggle but women's lives are saved.
2. The boys don't giggle but the women die.

 

[doodle]

Raise your hand if you or someone you know had a male partner discover a breast lump.

Here! That's another reason why I'm not so much a fan of the boobiecentric campaign. My friend didn't really fit into that grouping, and he expressed a number of times that he felt like he didn't matter as much because, as he put it, "Who wants to save the ta-ta's of a middle aged man with a ponytail?"

 

[loriken214]

Kenny,

Are you wearing your Boobie bracelet and do you check your man-boobs on a monthly basis?

Lori

 

[doodle]

Pick one:

1. A few adolescent boys giggle but women's lives are saved.
2. The boys don't giggle but the women die.

3. The campaign raises money in a way that's less offensive to patients, lives are saved, the boys don't giggle, and maybe with a different campaign strategy, these kids might even LEARN something about cancer and compassion.

I'm with Haven that kids don't have to be patronized in order for them to get something. I understood the tragedy of cancer when I was ten--I saw it every day in my family. I got it because I was exposed to it, made aware of its consequences, and believe me, nothing about it was funny. I didn't need a bracelet with a catchy slogan to make me CARE about cancer patients, and for those who think that it's the only way to get that demographic interested, have a little faith in today's youth. They pleasantly surprise me more often than I could ever put into words.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Pick one:

1. A few adolescent boys giggle but women's lives are saved.
2. The boys don't giggle but the women die.

3. The campaign raises money in a way that's less offensive to patients, lives are saved, the boys don't giggle, and maybe with a different campaign strategy, these kids might even LEARN something about cancer and compassion.

I'm with Haven that kids don't have to be patronized in order for them to get something. I understood the tragedy of cancer when I was ten--I saw it every day in my family. I got it because I was exposed to it, made aware of its consequences, and believe me, nothing about it was funny. I didn't need a bracelet with a catchy slogan to make me CARE about cancer patients, and for those who think that it's the only way to get that demographic interested, have a little faith in today's youth. They pleasantly surprise me more often than I could ever put into words.

I was 10 too, when my grandmother had breast cancer (that made her in her early 50's). Our family's dealing mechanism is humor and levity. After her mastectomy she told me she was worried about swimming. I asked her "Why?" She told me "Because, I'll swim in a circle."

My family fully informed me of what was happening and what she was going through. I don't know how she behaved when I wasn't present, but when I was around, she was always the grandma I grew up with. A smile, a kind word, a joke and love.

She has a save the ta-tas shirt, and I bet a boobies bracelet.

This is the same grandmother who told me on my 18th birthday, "No glove, no love."

 

[kenny]

Kenny,

Are you wearing your Boobie bracelet and do you check your man-boobs on a monthly basis?

Lori

Kenny himself is not what is important here.
What I do is not relevant to the topic.
What I do does not make my opinion being more or less valid.

This mentality is similar to the groupist thing - if you are not in the group your opinion matters less, or if you are not in an interracial marriage your viewpoint on that subject holds less weight.
Also this, change the topic to the person discussing it, is avoiding discussing the topic.

That said, I write checks to many important charities and do maintain very very good health practices compared to the norm.
But again even if I didn't that does not take away from my opinions.

We all get one vote.

 

[loriken214]

Kenny,

Are you wearing your Boobie bracelet and do you check your man-boobs on a monthly basis?

Lori

Kenny himself is not what is important here.
What I do is not relevant to the topic.
What I do does not make my opinion being more or less valid.

This mentality is similar to the groupist thing - if you are not in the group your opinion matters less, or if you are not in an interracial marriage your viewpoint on that subject holds less weight.
Also this, change the topic to the person discussing it, is avoiding discussing the topic.

That said, I write checks to many important charities and do maintain very very good health practices compared to the norm.
But again even if I didn't that does not take away from my opinions.

We all get one vote.

Point well taken...I was concerned about your well-being given the subject at hand and all of the experiences being shared. I've already given my vote in an earlier post.

Lori

 

[kenny]

Thanks Lori.

 

[ksinger]

First, I don't personally find this campaign offensive, but I am not someone who has had or has breast cancer, so frankly I don't think my opinion is the one that matters.

Second, regarding whether or not these bracelets should be allowed in high schools, I stand by my initial response that no, they should not. The problem goes beyond the potential distraction (which I think is a big issue) and into the fact that seeing peers wear bracelets that read "I love boobies" is something that is sure to make some (if not many) adolescent girls uncomfortable.

Now, I know that there are some PSers who will respond with "Well, that is their problem, not the wearer's problem! If teens are uncomfortable with their bodies, then THEY need to deal with it, not the teens who are wearing the bracelets." This is what I say to that argument: Poppycock. It is our job as educators to provide a safe learning environment for all of our students so we can best support their success. That means no clothing or accessories that have messages or images on them that are likely to make students uncomfortable. A bracelet that reads "I love boobies" is just what you need to make a young girl who has recently undergone some changes of her own to feel very uncomfortable around the wearer. THAT is the biggest problem with these bracelets in the schools, in my opinion. High school students are often hyper-self conscious, and this bracelet would just exacerbate a feeling of self consciousness that many teen girls are already dealing with.

I'm curious: How would people feel if a male high school teacher wore this bracelet? How would you feel if your teenage daughter was in this male high school teacher's English class?

Additionally, I don't understand how banning these bracelets from high school equals putting an end to the fundraising to be made from producing them. Last time I checked, teens were able to wear things OUTSIDE of school.

Finally, I would like to reiterate a point I made in an earlier post that has been ignored: Lance Armstrong's Livestrong bracelets have sold over 70 million $1 bracelets since 2004. They did not have to resort to anything potentially offensive to women OR cancer patients or survivors in order to sell these bracelets. I think those who make the argument that we need to put something outrageous or catchy on a bracelet in order to make it sell are underestimating Americans, and especially American teens, to tell you the truth.

The most popular bracelets that I currently see on my college freshmen are a far cry from these booby bracelets--instead of bearing a catchy phrase they bear the name of a loved one who has died, and that loved one is usually someone who died as a teen. Sometimes the bracelets have a phrase that the teen was known for saying, it's usually something profound or particularly touching. These bracelets are made in memory of teens who committed suicide, or died of cancer, or in an act of violence, a car crash, or some other horrific disease. Someone orders a number of these bracelets and the loved one's family and friends sell them at a fundraising event, a school game, or in the hallways during passing periods.

I wore a similar bracelet when I myself was a teen. It was silver, and it was produced by The Body Shop and sold to raise funds for AIDS awareness and research. The bracelets sold for $20 a piece, and I had it engraved with a lost loved one's name on it. I have multiple bracelets in my jewelry box now that bear the names of young Israeli soldiers who have died. Now that I think of it, I don't believe I could bring myself to wear an "I love boobies" bracelet next to a bracelet solemnly bearing the name of a lost loved one. I support cancer research by fundraising for multiple Relay for Life events each year. I send in monetary donations when I can. I buy products that bear the pink ribbon on them even if I don't need the product itself. There are so many ways to honor those whom we have lost to breast cancer, and those who are currently fighting it, I just don't see why anyone would argue that these booby bracelets, as benign as some might believe them to be, are truly necessary in the fight against breast cancer when survivors and patients have themselves declared that they find them to be offensive.

Yes. Everything she said. The hubs points out the same issue of context. Perhaps these bracelets have their place, but the school is the wrong context for it. Period.

For the record, I am not offended by the campaign, but I do find it crass and slightly annoying. And I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

 

[kenny]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

 

[ksinger]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

As a paradigm of how to function in the world, that idea that ends always justify and give a pass on the means, is a very slippery slope...

And yes, I realize that in the grand scheme this issue may be small potatoes - a tempest in a teapot - but it is just one more indication that we really have NO societal standards at all any more. No line can be drawn anywhere, or in any context. Ever. I will tolerate it, in the classical sense of tolerate, but I will never approve or think it's the best we can do, and I might even say so out loud from time to time.

 

[kenny]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

As a paradigm of how to function in the world, that idea that ends always justify and give a pass on the means, is a very slippery slope...

And yes, I realize that in the grand scheme this issue may be small potatoes - a tempest in a teapot - but it is just one more indication that we really have NO societal standards at all any more. No line can be drawn anywhere, or in any context. Ever. I will tolerate it, in the classical sense of tolerate, but I will never approve or think it's the best we can do, and I might even say so out loud from time to time.

What's more important giggle or a life?

I think saving even more women's lives via a clever gimmick is a wonderful societal standard.
I'd say letting women die so a boy somewhere does not giggle is a poor societal standard.

I see society moving from what matters less to what matters more as progress.

 

[packrat]

Davi, your Gramma sounds like such a fun person!

 

[MonkeyPie]

I was 10 too, when my grandmother had breast cancer (that made her in her early 50's). Our family's dealing mechanism is humor and levity. After her mastectomy she told me she was worried about swimming. I asked her "Why?" She told me "Because, I'll swim in a circle."

My family fully informed me of what was happening and what she was going through. I don't know how she behaved when I wasn't present, but when I was around, she was always the grandma I grew up with. A smile, a kind word, a joke and love.

She has a save the ta-tas shirt, and I bet a boobies bracelet.

This is the same grandmother who told me on my 18th birthday, "No glove, no love."

Your grandma is awesome!

I'd buy it. Saying that accepting this bracelet is the same as "the ends justifying the means" and that our society is going downhill, is just ridiculous.

 

[kenny]

I just realized why this topic pushes my buttons . . . The AIDS crisis back in the 80s.

My friends were dying and the "moral" people wanted silence instead of discussion and education - ESPECIALLY WHERE THEIR CHILDREN WERE CONCERNED!
Any discussion of sex made them nervous.

But silence = death.

 

[AGBF]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

And I say that that is not the choice. It is not necesssary to sell "boobies" in order to save lives. Give me a freakin' break. If anyone really gave a damn, he'd find some inoffensive, non-exploitive way to raise money. Any slogan would do. A respectful and ...get this, a creative, one! All it would need would be a big-time backer like the latest teen heart throb or the biggest movie star to wear a bracelet with said slogan.

Anyone who can convince you that you need to use "boobies" in an ad campaign to save lives from breast cancer can sell you a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I love mammary glands bracelets won't sell.

So do better. Or, better yet, step aside and let women handle it. We can use our brains and we don't need Hugh Hefner to help us. We are sure to be able to think of a slogan if we have to go the bracelet route for fund rasing. After all, we're the ones who had to hold bake sales for school supplies all these years while the Pentagon got billions from the taxpayers for bombers.

Deb/AGBF

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Pick one:

1. A few adolescent boys giggle but women's lives are saved.
2. The boys don't giggle but the women die.

I understood the tragedy of cancer when I was ten--I saw it every day in my family. I got it because I was exposed to it, made aware of its consequences, and believe me, nothing about it was funny. I didn't need a bracelet with a catchy slogan to make me CARE about cancer patients, and for those who think that it's the only way to get that demographic interested, have a little faith in today's youth. They pleasantly surprise me more often than I could ever put into words.

I was 10 too, when my grandmother had breast cancer (that made her in her early 50's). Our family's dealing mechanism is humor and levity. After her mastectomy she told me she was worried about swimming. I asked her "Why?" She told me "Because, I'll swim in a circle."

My family fully informed me of what was happening and what she was going through. I don't know how she behaved when I wasn't present, but when I was around, she was always the grandma I grew up with. A smile, a kind word, a joke and love.

She has a save the ta-tas shirt, and I bet a boobies bracelet."

Doodle, I didn't mean to say that your experience was trivial or trite. I suspect it was an emotionally draining and devastating time. Please accept my condolences and apology if you felt in anyway diminished. It was most definitely not my intent.

 

[risingsun]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

And I say that that is not the choice. It is not necesssary to sell "boobies" in order to save lives. Give me a freakin' break. If anyone really gave a damn, he'd find some inoffensive, non-exploitive way to raise money. Any slogan would do. A respectful and ...get this, a creative, one! All it would need would be a big-time backer like the latest teen heart throb or the biggest movie star to wear a bracelet with said slogan.

Anyone who can convince you that you need to use "boobies" in an ad campaign to save lives from breast cancer can sell you a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Deb/AGBF

Thank God, for the voice of reason. That includes your next post, too! We can and should do better. There is nothing for me to add. You said it all, Deb.

 

[sillyberry]

I went and looked up the organization behind this (because I hadn't heard of this particular bracelet phenomenon until this thread):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Mission
The Keep A Breast Foundation™ is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit organization. Our mission is to help eradicate breast cancer by exposing young people to methods of prevention, early detection and support. Through art events, educational programs and fundraising efforts, we seek to increase breast cancer awareness among young people so they are better equipped to make choices and develop habits that will benefit their long-term health and well-being.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems like they're doing a pretty good job reaching their target demographic.

 

[kenny]

I love mammary glands bracelets won't sell.

So do better. Or, better yet, step aside and let women handle it. We can use our brains and we don't need Hugh Hefner to help us. We are sure to be able to think of a slogan if we have to go the bracelet route for fund rasing. After all, we're the ones who had to hold bake sales for school supplies all these years while the Pentagon got billions from the taxpayers for bombers.

Deb/AGBF

Wow.
There it is.
Misandry.

 

[dragonfly411]

... I can't help but think (along the lines of Deb's feminism) do we really need anything else helping men (of any age) fixate on a female body PART rather than a female person? I don't think so.

... if it saves more women's lives . . . yes.

As a paradigm of how to function in the world, that idea that ends always justify and give a pass on the means, is a very slippery slope...

And yes, I realize that in the grand scheme this issue may be small potatoes - a tempest in a teapot - but it is just one more indication that we really have NO societal standards at all any more. No line can be drawn anywhere, or in any context. Ever. I will tolerate it, in the classical sense of tolerate, but I will never approve or think it's the best we can do, and I might even say so out loud from time to time.

What's more important giggle or a life?

I think saving even more women's lives via a clever gimmick is a wonderful societal standard.
I'd say letting women die so a boy somewhere does not giggle is a poor societal standard.

I see society moving from what matters less to what matters more as progress.

Kenny's post expresses how I feel about this almost perfectly.

I really find the breast cancer gimmicks entertaining. I am still aspiring to own a Save the Ta Tas bumper sticker. I think they are a fun way to promote awareness about a serious disease that alters the lives of many families in this world.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Just stopping in to agree with Marian and Deb. The initial post struck me as very disrespectful to those affected by breast cancer. I have not seen the bracelets and would have had no idea they were to raise money and awareness for breast cancer. Surely there is a better way.

(And as a teacher, I believe schools have every right to have dress codes which exclude certain items. In fact, I think dress codes are much too lax in most public schools today. Express your individuality outside of school hours!)

 

[Arkteia]

I love mammary glands bracelets won't sell.

So do better. Or, better yet, step aside and let women handle it. We can use our brains and we don't need Hugh Hefner to help us. We are sure to be able to think of a slogan if we have to go the bracelet route for fund rasing. After all, we're the ones who had to hold bake sales for school supplies all these years while the Pentagon got billions from the taxpayers for bombers.

Deb/AGBF

Debbie,

It is very sad but due to the recession the country has little money to fund scientific research. It hit pharmaceutical companies, too. So whatever helps... even Hugh Heffner. Science is just dying without federal grants. In many areas we are behind Philippines and South Korea. I don't think people understand the real situation with cancer research - any research, for that matter. Do you know that if someone dies, the established practice is to bring the unused chemo medications to the hospital... to distribute among the living ones for free? Which had not been done before. But things are so incredibly expensive. So if "boobies" campaign helps... I am for it!

 

[that_someone_special]

I don't understand how this is an offensive campaign. I find it funny, and "young". If someone doesn't want to buy anything in the "I love boobies" campaign that's fine.. buy a pink bracelet or whatever. This is just another way to reach another group of people. Just like there are different genres of music to buy, or different types of churches to attend (in faith but also style).. Something for everyone.

ETA: and I've known of this campaign for a while- I didn't know there were bracelets yet, but I've seen their stickers as far back as 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[perry]

Sillyberry:

Ahhh... so someone else looked them up. I also did this morning. I first saw this thread last night - but did not wish to respond until I did some research on it (I was aware of some news articles). So this AM I looked up the organization - checked out some of the articles and postings in response, another forum discussion, and called my friend the teacher... before posting earlier today.

Now that I read the responses after I post I'd like to make the following points:

1) As far as I could tell based on my research this AM - breast cancer survivors are split on the issue. There are a number of them who support the cause and are not bothered by the term "boobies." I am of course sorry for anyone who has gone through the pain that breast cancer (or any cancer or serious illness) causes a person and a family. I do not believe that this effort is meant to offend you - but to bring better awareness to the younger generation about the issue.

2) For those who don't wish to offend anyone - and that we must structure all discussion so people are not offended. That is not possible. In fact, there are people in this world who are offended by our very existence. I'm not going stop doing things - or speaking up - because just someone is offended. In considering if the issue is appropriate for a public setting - the standards must be much higher - such as offensive to most everyone for starters. Kenny has a point about what happened when the discussion about AIDS was squashed. It is really the same idea behind full and proper sex education. All some people wish to teach is "Abstinence" and no details - and the studies show that has not worked well. Can anyone tell me when silence and stifled discussion on an issue has worked long term?

So, I'm not concerned about if the subject offends a few. I also consider that the purpose of our school systems is to teach proper debate and respect for positions. Not to teach people that they can never disagree or make someone uncomfortable in their mind.

3) Based on my research this morning more teenage girls are wearing these than teenage boys... Its all about the audience - and many of the younger people in our society have generally accepted the term "boobies" and think in this context that it is cool.

4) Concerning the metal bracelets with names. They first started in the Viet-Nam war for missing solders (MIA'a). I might still have one in a box in the basement. But times have changed as that was before the modern synthetic materials were available. I can't imagine anyone doing a serious fundraising marketing attempt with something so expensive to produce and ship today. I do appreciate those who participated in the various named bracelet campaigns.

5) Lance Armstrong was/is a national sports hero - so he could sell his paper bracelets based solely on his name. When it comes to breast cancer - the only nationally prominent female name that comes to mind is Betty Ford - which may predate some on this forum (Betty Ford - President's Ford's wife - was probably the first nationally prominent woman to openly discuss and raise the awareness on breast cancer and other issues). Certainly not a name that teenagers today would care about. I cannot think of a single high profile well known female athlete who has had breast cancer. So the Lance Armstrong case is not comparable (unless you can name someone that most people in the US would recognize for breast cancer).

6) Let the woman do it: Keep A Breast Foundation (I "heart" Boobies) was founded and is run by Shaney jo Darden - who is definitely a woman and the Susan G. Komen Foundation (associated with "Save the Boobies") was also started by and is run by a woman As far as I can see - women are doing it.... They are applying their brains and talents - and it appears to a good effect.

-------

In the end, even though it is not the way I would have chosen to market this fundraiser - I do believe that the controversy is really not among the younger people in our society about the appropriateness of these bracelets or the cause. Its about a bunch of older people trying to apply their standards on the younger generation; which rarely works (that "boobies" is an inappropriate way to discuss breast cancer).

I also have to recognize just how effective this marketing/fundraising effort has been. Of course the other thing the controversy does is sell more bracelets...

While I respect the opinions of many on this forum - I also am amenable to agree to disagree with others. It is what it is.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[AGBF]

I love mammary glands bracelets won't sell.

So do better. Or, better yet, step aside and let women handle it. We can use our brains and we don't need Hugh Hefner to help us. We are sure to be able to think of a slogan if we have to go the bracelet route for fund rasing. After all, we're the ones who had to hold bake sales for school supplies all these years while the Pentagon got billions from the taxpayers for bombers.

Deb/AGBF

Wow.
There it is.
Misandry.

Misandry implies a man. If you want to be respected as a man, act like one instead of a perpetual adolescent. Then you won't have to call me names.

AGBF