I need a serious advice

[Arkteia]

Thank you, Nashville. I am not a litiginous person at all. To a degree that when an OBGYN who performed a C-section made a nick on my son's cheek and he ended with two scars (they are not seen now but will be when he grows up) and everyone said, sue, it is such an airtight case, I chose not to. My thoughts were, OK, I'll certainly get some amount, likely, not too much. The major chunk of it would go to a lawyer, the doctor's premiums would grow, and a few cases like this could drive her from OB (not GYN) business. It was a semi-emergency C-section and she was right in deciding to perform it. And you have to have a very serious reason for suing a colleague. (An unexpected fallout from not suing were referrals to best doctors in the city because this practice is well-known and of course they appreciated my attitude).

But the amount we are talking about here is... a house. It has accrued over several years. And I do not feel bad about posts stating that it was my fault. In principle yes. Technically, impossible. It is possible to estimate returns from a private practice. (Exactly what Perry has advised). It is very difficult to estimate returns from your hospital work especially in my profession, since we get many patients with state insurance. Let me spare you the technicalities, but it is such a trickle... But over several years... only this portion, and this is one of several, is over 100 K and these money is non-recoverable. Now that two people are trying to collect they tell me about each case. Everything that required minimal body movement...a call... an authorization, was dropped halfway.

And she was lying to me and my colleague. She was telling us that that a certain company stopped paying because they had no money. They did not pay for a different reason, she needed to bill electronically and she either did not know how to do it or was busy otherwise.

She has 25 years of experience and a good reputation. Trouble is, I did not know about her main problem when she was billing for me. It slowly grew. Only one person knew but he felt it was a hearsay and did not tell anyone. Now he says, "you are entitled to what is yours".

It has affected my practice, too. She would allow people not to pay for ages and then, trying hastily to collect money in one month, would send them to collection. Granted, it was their fault. But now me and my new biller have to make calls and pull them out of collections because, after all, they have been my patients for several years and they are fine people, just not too organized. Other people get plain angry when they are presented with a huge bill accrued over the years, angry with me. Their fault, but she should have taken care of it long time ago!

So what we are doing now is hastily trying to collect the money from the companies. And then see what is going on. I am also writing thank-you letters to insurance companies that have been cooperative and helpful. (Very few). I can not blame those that do not pay either. They do not have that much money now and there is a certain budget for each year.

I feel bad for my current billers. Technically there could have been a large cut for them, but so far we have collected 1/100 of what was owed. Ok, maybe 1/50 by now.

 

[JewelFreak]

Crasru, you've gotten advice from all over the map but the ultimate action has to come from what your gut tells you. I'm old enough to have learned that when I ignore that, I'm always sorry. If you're still on the fence, try writing out a list: pros on one side, cons the other. Sometimes that makes things clearer.

I agree that this is a business, rather than a personal, matter. One that affects those who may subsequently employ her too. Decide how you'd feel if someone else had had this experience & let it slide...then you hired her & went through what you've been through. How would you feel?

It seems fairly clear from what you've said what her other problems are: those, too, are choices she made & continues to make. I can tell you from experience, some folks need to face a wall before they take stock & it is not uncompassionate to be the agent thereof. Your job is to recover what you can of the proceeds from your work; if that makes someone else face consequences of their actions, that indeed is karma. Stopping her now might, in the end, be a favor -- as time goes on w/out a reckoning her activities could become more extreme & she could end up in jail.

First off, decide who is your responsibility -- you & family, or her. Then you'll know what to do. Good luck & keep us informed please!

--- Laurie

ETA: Can't recommend strongly enough that, whatever you do, you report her business to the BBB & any other appropriate organizations. That really is a duty!

 

[Arkteia]

Thank you, Laurie. Actually, I want to thank everyone who has been so responsive. I think reporting her to BBB is a good idea because her actions are becoming dangerous. Also, it will give a certain level of protection to me, because of her lack of control and because certain people around her look menacing and impulsive.
It is a deeply personal issue. It was hard to even post this question here. And all of you have been very supportive. I can not express how much I value your support.

 

[sparklyheart]

If someone believed in karma couldn't karma explain why she lost her house to her irresponsibility and bad choices?
And wouldn't it be bad karma to get in the way of karma?

I'm not saying what you should do but you can't have it both ways - believing in being guided by both karma and niceness.

Ditto this.

Also, I think there are two ways this could have gone.. If she were incompetent and did things without knowing it, that's one thing. Judging from the way she is behaving though, she purposely did this to you and the other doctors.. She made those decisions everyday she came to work. It's not like she can claim she just "didn't know."

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I know the possible lawsuit is the question here, but, I am bothered by the fact that you all(19 Drs.) instituted no checks and balances.

A medical practice is run like a business, and a business usually has outside accountants do a yearly audit on the financial statements.

You need to have financial statements,

Your billings must have another verification source. If patient billing goes directly to an independent company, a copy of all patients
billings should also go to you , their names and the amount owed. You need your own bookkeeper in the office to check the billing. A good bookkeeper can prepare financial statements and check to see who has paid againt the income that month. Well, you get the idea. You must have better checks and balances in effect. This should all be able to be done with computers. A biller sends out the bills. You need , I think, a good bookkeeper or accountant. Inquire about other Drs systems. Yours has a big hole.

Annette

 

[Arkteia]

Right. But I know that none of us has this system in place. For all I know, the two remaining doctors that are still using my first biller are using a bookkeeper or someone auditing the biller, and they have a humongous business. Many of these bookkeepers or organizations are far away from you, and you communicate only via fax.

The person I employ now is working from my office. She has been printing out my returns each day but I plan to make her print out the names of the people and their payments each day. And since I keep the schedules for each day and the new ATM system allows me to get copies of each check, I can see what is going on. I think it is a decent start.

A good biller is very, very hard to find. Same for a CPA. And everyone else involved in the business. My attorney is very knowledgeable, although expensive.

I know that people who do best billing-wise use their wives to do the billing.

Problems usually start when bullers start "expanding" and taking in more clients.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

It is as much your fault for not managing her correctly and keeping tabs on her as it is her fault for not doing her job in the first place.

Consider it a lesson learned and keep tabs on the next one!

Yeah, this sums it up for me.

It's the unpopular opinion, but this sums it up for me as well. Even so, I am sorry that you are dealing with this and I'm not sure how I would handle it if I were you.

The only other thing that I feel I can add to this post is that if you do end up suing the biller it is likely that she will seek Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. Once she does that you will be prohibited from collecting any money from her, now or in the future.

 

[perry]

Right. But I know that none of us has this system in place. For all I know, the two remaining doctors that are still using my first biller are using a bookkeeper or someone auditing the biller, and they have a humongous business. Many of these bookkeepers or organizations are far away from you, and you communicate only via fax.

The person I employ now is working from my office. She has been printing out my returns each day but I plan to make her print out the names of the people and their payments each day. And since I keep the schedules for each day and the new ATM system allows me to get copies of each check, I can see what is going on. I think it is a decent start.

A good biller is very, very hard to find. Same for a CPA. And everyone else involved in the business. My attorney is very knowledgeable, although expensive.

I know that people who do best billing-wise use their wives to do the billing.

Problems usually start when bullers start "expanding" and taking in more clients.

Good for you on taking more responsibilities and setting up a system to track your appointments.

Concerning your comment on who makes the best billers: Might I add - "Or husbands...."

I think I could handle the job... (and am available... depending...)

As far as suing. You are in a better position having established that the person is an independent contractor. The next question is do they have any business insurance that covers general liability or errors and omissions. If so - you can collect to the maximum amount of that policy regardless if they declare bankruptcy. I also note that not everyone will declare bankruptcy - but it is a risk if you do sue. The laws are different in each state on to what degree the bankruptcy will protect them. Your lawyer should be able to give you appropriate advice on this issue. Since it seems that your lawyer is willing to take this case on a % basis and not an hourly fee - they must figure that their is $$$$ to be recovered. They would not be willing to do that if the other party could easily declare bankruptcy and avoid the liability.

Have a great day

 

[House Cat]

When a person files bankruptcy, doesn't that usually protect their house? I always hear commercials on the radio for bankruptcy attorneys and part of the advertisement is "Keep your house, car, and other assets!" So why are we so worried that this individual will lose her home? In this economy, so many others are filing bankruptcy for many different reasons. Bankruptcy isn't the end of the world. People survive it everyday.

Lastly, someone mentioned that this person might have been stealing from you Crasru. Is this a possibility?

 

[perry]

There are two common reasons where a person can loose their house.

1) When they have used their house as collateral for their business - and they have a business debt. Bankruptcy will not protect the house at all in this case in most states. I personally know of 4 people who essentially just handed the title over to the bank and moved out of their house when their business failed. I also note that banks really like to get business owners to put a lien on the house to guarantee a business loan. It is often the only solid collateral that a person has.

2) Some states will not let you protect your house (or only protect some of the value of your house) in the case where the reason you are filing bankruptcy is to avoid accruing a new debt (such as from a a lawsuit like this).

3) Some states will only protect a house's value up to a certain point in bankruptcy (i.e $125,000 - $250,000). If you live in a high value home you will have to sell it and use the protected value amount to move into a lower value home.

Perry

 

[Arkteia]

Thank you, Perry, for your generous offer. I have a husband, but if you agree to work on a 7% commission... this is something to consider

DivaDiamond - actually, I totally agree with it. In reality I know how it happened, and how difficult it was to track things but if I lost that much, then, you are right, the fault, ultimately, is mine although she did not hold up to her end of the job. So I do not feel bad when people point it out to me. I was not in full control of the business. But then, way more savvy people, having two businesses, were not as well, so there may be some system error. One of the doctors who dropped my first biller has a network of gas stations in addition to his practice, he is an astute businessman and yet he overlooked low collections. But in principle, you are right. I bet many people who read this post feel the same way, they just want to support me and hence do not say it. I am not unhappy with what you said at all, especially since you expressed it with grace and sympathy. Thank you.

House Cat - no she was not. Or at least, not on a large scale. She technically could not steal the money. Only one of her invoices looked unusually large and did not match my bank statement... She said that was what she had received from me. After that, I made my receptionist copy all the statements that came from insurance companies (I was paying her to do the job) and I never had any discrepancy again. I think she tried to start the practice of inflating bills (which would mean paying higher taxes) but realized that she could be caught in 2 seconds and stopped. So we are safe on this end.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Well, I guess I am not a nice person, because I would sue.

You hired her to do something and she didn't do it.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

When a person files bankruptcy, doesn't that usually protect their house? I always hear commercials on the radio for bankruptcy attorneys and part of the advertisement is "Keep your house, car, and other assets!" So why are we so worried that this individual will lose her home? In this economy, so many others are filing bankruptcy for many different reasons. Bankruptcy isn't the end of the world. People survive it everyday.

Lastly, someone mentioned that this person might have been stealing from you Crasru. Is this a possibility?

PERRY - Bankruptcy is federal law, not state law so filing for bankruptcy protection does not vary from state to state. The exemptions that are available under bankruptcy do vary from state to state, however, which is where it can really get tricky. If Crasru files suit against biller and biller then declares bankruptcy, Crasru is SOL as far as collecting money from biller personally. It gets even trickier if biller is operating both personally and as a business and has intertwined debt. In that case, biller could file a Chapter 7 and discharge all debt, business and personal in one case. If there are two entities (personal and business) with no intertwined debt then biller would have to file two separate cases in order to avoid paying Crasru. If biller was insured, then that would come into play to, which would complicate things further. It is an ugly situation all around.

HOUSECAT - I am a bankruptcy paralegal so this is right up my alley! Most people that file for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy do not have any equity in their homes or are upside down (owe more than the house is worth), therefore, there is no point in the Bankruptcy Trustee taking the house because the mortgage(s) have to be paid first. Same thing with a vehicle. If there is equity in real estate or other personal property, there are exemptions that are available for the debtor to use in order to proctect those assets. As I stated to Perry, exemption laws vary from state to state, and in some states you can elect to either use the federal exemptions or the state exemptions; Michigan is an example of this. Likewise, in some states you must use the state exemptions when filing for bankruptcy; like in Ohio, which is where I live/work (boss practices in OH and MI). You are right that people survive bankruptcy every day; I see it personally every day. There are so many reasons why people file, and most that do are not your stereotypical deadbeats. We see our fair share of "serial filers" but for the most part my clients are facing real financial hardship and really have no other option.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Again,

I don't think Perry was offering to do your collections. He has an accounting and bookkeeping background. Idon't think he would work on commission because he is not collecting anything. You need him as the watchdog for your financial health. I doubt this is a fulltime job.
Perry, no offense--but I think she needs someone in her office where she can have meetings on the financial goings on at least 2x a month. However i have read your posts and you do have experience in this matter. I worry that the same thing will happen again.

Your job as a Dr. is to treat patients, not to do the paperwork. Although this may add to your costs now, in the end you will gain.

If you have a university around you, call the head of accounting and see if he has a good student to work for you. I hired accountants who hadn't taken the CPA exam yet and only stayed about 2 yrs and then left for more lucrative jobs, but They were good while I had them.
I know its a lot to think about. I am sure Perry can advise you as well. I have been out of things a long time and don't know the new computer programs that are used.
I hope this works out.



Annette

 

[perry]

Hi Again,

I don't think Perry was offering to do your collections. He has an accounting and bookkeeping background. Idon't think he would work on commission because he is not collecting anything. You need him as the watchdog for your financial health. I doubt this is a fulltime job.
Perry, no offense--but I think she needs someone in her office where she can have meetings on the financial goings on at least 2x a month. However i have read your posts and you do have experience in this matter. I worry that the same thing will happen again.


Annette

Hmmm... That's interesting. I'm an Engineer by training and current day job. I used to manage a plant. I run a side business. I have worked and supported myself from commission sales in the past. Note I did once start a MBA program - and figured it had little to do with the real world and dropped out. I'm not sure I've ever taken an accounting class. But I can sure track $$$$

Actually, I was going to ask crasru what her annual take was to see if it'd be worth it. The key is figuring out all the right ways to fill out the billing forms for each insurance company. I figure it cannot be worse than what I've had to deal with before.... Just a learning curve.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[Karl_K]

Unfortunately this is very common for a someone to trust a biller or billing service and get burned.
One of my clients a dentist after his biller/bookkeeper retired he found out she embezzled over 5 million dollars over 15 years and he never had a clue.
They found out she also moonlighted for another doctor for over 5 years and took him for over 2 million.
The prosecutor would not file charges and she got away from it.

 

[Arkteia]

Unfortunately this is very common for a someone to trust a biller or billing service and get burned.
One of my clients a dentist after his biller/bookkeeper retired he found out sh.e embezzled over 5 million dollars over 15 years and he never had a clue.
They found out she also moonlighted for another doctor for over 5 years and took him for over 2 million.
The prosecutor would not file charges and she got away from it.

Now how can you embezzle money? I mean, you can bill but then the checks are made out to a doctor. And I have installed a credit card machine in my office so very little money passes even through receptionist's hands. By the end of the day, I deposit my checks. I open my envelopes. The only possible thing for the biller is to state that my revenue was higher than it really was so that 7% amounts to a higher number. But since all the money I get are deposited into my account and I get printouts of each check (owing to new ATM machines) it is difficult, too, especially since by the end of the year the insurance companies mail out statements re. the amount they paid. There are some discrepancies since they may close their finance year later or earlier but still it should be pretty close.

The only thing that happened once is when I was billed for an unusually high amount. But it happened once. Since that day every paper was photographed and it stopped. (That, by the way, was another reason for me to fire her - I got sick and tired of being paranoid. If it continued, I'd end up paying higher taxes, thought I). I mean, you could overcharge for paper and postage... but that will not amount to 15 M. And now we going paperless.

It is interesting to find out which books you use, though. My new CPA is going to provide me with a professional bookkeeper but I do not know if it is all worthy of the money spent. A student could potentially do a good job but only if he/she worked for me only.

And Annette - I think both Perry and I were joking. At least I know for sure about myself, but Perry also posted a smiling face at the end of his posting, so I think he was, too.

 

[Karl_K]

both offices were still mostly paper.
My understanding of what she did is billed insurance companies through a corp with a similar sounding name that the money went to her. I don't know all the details of how she did it.
When she retired they went to a computerized system and that is how she got caught.
The billing paperwork didn't match the appointment paperwork.
At first they thought she just hadn't billed for the work but when they contacted the insurance companies they said that we paid for a root canal for that patient on that date to COMPANY Y. (just an example)

 

[Nashville]

Unfortunately this is very common for a someone to trust a biller or billing service and get burned.
One of my clients a dentist after his biller/bookkeeper retired he found out she embezzled over 5 million dollars over 15 years and he never had a clue.
They found out she also moonlighted for another doctor for over 5 years and took him for over 2 million.
The prosecutor would not file charges and she got away from it.

The prosecutor wouldn't file charges and the woman just walked away with $7 million in stolen money? How could that happen???

 

[Karl_K]

Unfortunately this is very common for a someone to trust a biller or billing service and get burned.
One of my clients a dentist after his biller/bookkeeper retired he found out she embezzled over 5 million dollars over 15 years and he never had a clue.
They found out she also moonlighted for another doctor for over 5 years and took him for over 2 million.
The prosecutor would not file charges and she got away from it.

The prosecutor wouldn't file charges and the woman just walked away with $7 million in stolen money? How could that happen???

I don't know why he would not bring charges.
I was shocked about it at the time.
If I had to guess I would say that mess the office paperwork was in had a lot to do with it.
I do know the one doctor spent tens of thousands of dollars having a forensic accountant try and make sense of it and straiten up his books.

 

[lucyandroger]

Isn't there another option? Why not have your attorney write a letter explaining that you've discovered what she did and will be suing unless you come to some sort of a settlement. In the letter, let her know that you're willing to work with her but will not be so generous if you are forced to file a suit.

Then you can hire an independant mediator if you like or just go into negotiations with your attorney and her side.

 

[Nashville]

Unfortunately this is very common for a someone to trust a biller or billing service and get burned.
One of my clients a dentist after his biller/bookkeeper retired he found out she embezzled over 5 million dollars over 15 years and he never had a clue.
They found out she also moonlighted for another doctor for over 5 years and took him for over 2 million.
The prosecutor would not file charges and she got away from it.

The prosecutor wouldn't file charges and the woman just walked away with $7 million in stolen money? How could that happen???

I don't know why he would not bring charges.
I was shocked about it at the time.
If I had to guess I would say that mess the office paperwork was in had a lot to do with it.
I do know the one doctor spent tens of thousands of dollars having a forensic accountant try and make sense of it and straiten up his books.

That is absolutely insane.

 

[Arkteia]

Isn't there another option? Why not have your attorney write a letter explaining that you've discovered what she did and will be suing unless you come to some sort of a settlement. In the letter, let her know that you're willing to work with her but will not be so generous if you are forced to file a suit.

Then you can hire an independant mediator if you like or just go into negotiations with your attorney and her side.

Ha! We had a letter written and delivered to her. I suspect she flushed it down the toilet. We were talking about it with the biller who is trying to collect money that is overdue. I guess it is easier to deal with insurance companies than with her. I should have fired her a year ago!

 

[Sizzle]

From what I've read, you know what needs to be done, but you just want permission and to be told it's ok... SO here it is. GET YOUR MONEY. her problems are her own. Stop thinking about the worse case scenerio in her life and start thinking about the best case scenerio for yours.

 

[lucyandroger]

Isn't there another option? Why not have your attorney write a letter explaining that you've discovered what she did and will be suing unless you come to some sort of a settlement. In the letter, let her know that you're willing to work with her but will not be so generous if you are forced to file a suit.

Then you can hire an independant mediator if you like or just go into negotiations with your attorney and her side.

Ha! We had a letter written and delivered to her. I suspect she flushed it down the toilet. We were talking about it with the biller who is trying to collect money that is overdue. I guess it is easier to deal with insurance companies than with her. I should have fired her a year ago!

Then I say sue her!

 

[Arkteia]

I'll end up doing something, for sure. As of now, she is not even giving me old records, which are my property. Yesterday I spent two hours with my CPA trying to straighten out the mess she created. Apparently, there are two messes, one in billing and the other on in billing me for the money collected. And of course, she was overbilling. Today I am calling my attorney asking to draw another letter about my records and just get them from her. She lied through her teeth, this lady. But I am also under pressure to rebill ASAP because the insurance clock is ticking. So that is what I am doing first.

 

[risingsun]

She has made her own karma, Crasu. Whatever happens next is due to her own actions. This is a pattern of behavior, which should no longer be enabled. She did what she did and is responsible for the consequences of her actions. Whether she is a compulsive gambler or shopper, if she has such a problem, doesn't excuse her behavior. I hope that you are able to recover at least some of the money that is owed to you. You earned it. You deserve better than what has happened to you.

 

[zipzapgirl]

Now how can you embezzle money? I mean, you can bill but then the checks are made out to a doctor. And I have installed a credit card machine in my office so very little money passes even through receptionist's hands. By the end of the day, I deposit my checks. I open my envelopes. The only possible thing for the biller is to state that my revenue was higher than it really was so that 7% amounts to a higher number. But since all the money I get are deposited into my account and I get printouts of each check (owing to new ATM machines) it is difficult, too, especially since by the end of the year the insurance companies mail out statements re. the amount they paid. There are some discrepancies since they may close their finance year later or earlier but still it should be pretty close.

The only thing that happened once is when I was billed for an unusually high amount. But it happened once. Since that day every paper was photographed and it stopped. (That, by the way, was another reason for me to fire her - I got sick and tired of being paranoid. If it continued, I'd end up paying higher taxes, thought I). I mean, you could overcharge for paper and postage... but that will not amount to 15 M. And now we going paperless.



I am a CPA and there is always a potential for embezzlement or fraud if the person is savvy enough and allowed to operate on their own. The most important things are to separate the three functions of bookkeeping: Custody, Recording and Reconciliation.

You were saying that the biller never had custody, because the checks were written to you and deposited to your account; however, the biller may have had the authorization to change the account info/payee name (like the person above did) and could thereby obtain custody. You also said that the biller didn't have reconciliation duties, because you were tracking the payments received against the amounts she billed you for collecting from patients/insurance. While this keeps the biller's invoicing honest, it does not protect you against 1) "Lapping", which is a combination of delaying payments being applied to accounts and issuing credits/writeoffs to accounts so that the missing money never goes detected and 2) Omission of amounts in the overall receivables amount (which seems to be what happened here).

If I were you, my first move would be to get ALL of my documents and information back from this biller. It's great that you have these two employees trying to sort out the mess, but ultimately you need to separate the duties and someone has to reconcile every month. That means tracing appointments to gross billings to net receivables to net receipts. That means running aging receivables reports on a weekly basis. That means looking at every writeoff or non-cash credit to accounts so you'll know if the biller is writing off amounts which he or she shouldnt be. Also, doing some high-level analytics to see if your overall recovery amounts and payor mixes are staying steady or not and why.

Second, I think you have to proceed as if this is a legal case. Whether or not you sue for full recovery amounts in the end, you need to protect yourself against anything that comes out of this (What if one of the other doctors claims she misdirected funds between offices? What if your patients sues you? What if one of the insurance companies claims you have double-billed or otherwise been fraudulent?) You have to collect all of the facts and know your rights. Even if you get a judgement against this person and are awarded damages, it may not be possible to collect; I think that becomes a different issue you can only face once you have reached that point.

 

[LGK]

Crasru, I've been in your shoes twice. Once with an insurance agent that was referred to us by my FIL- he was the son of the agent FIL had done his business/commercial property insurance through for decades. Very long story short, he never actually had a policy for us and just kept pocketing the checks for nonexistant premiums.

Indeed, he took us for thousands. And FIL for tens upon tens of thousands over years. Also if you lapse your commercial property insurance for years, you are *screwed* when you re-insure. FIL was in that position and is still paying huge premiums due to the "lapsed" insurance. Both he and DH & I chose not to sue the guy... there was a loooonnng story behind why he turned to white collar crime and he did get prosecuted (not just sued) by a number of other insurance clients and ended up in prison.

Present day, we have a tenant that failed to maintain their commercial freezers. They're water cooled. This results in zillions up on zillions of gallons of water rushing through the things a minute. And us suddenly getting $6,000 water bills for the last two years. (Awesome.) That was up from like $1500 as a typical bill. We searched and searched for a "leak", hired plumbers by the score, scrutinized the foundation for leak evidence, asked every tenant multiple times if they had any possible clue what might be causing The Water Issue.

Well, you can't have water pressure like that going through such old pipes, and of course all hell broke loose in the basement eventually, feet of gushing (nice! fresh! expensive!) water and we showed up in the AM to find our 80-something maintenence guy playing little dutch boy. The plumber who came figured it out pretty quicky after the pipe went- where the water was coming from. The commercial freezers, that is. That apparently hadn't been maintaned in fifteen years. That have a lifespan of maybe ten years, with yearly maintenance. The tenant knew it from the beginnning two years ago, and had lied repeatedly about it even after we found the problem a few months ago. He swore to me that my husband had cancelled his scheduled maitenance on the units (um, no, how could he do that?) and to my husband that I had. Riiiiiight.

He cost us, well, $4,500 times 12, so $54,000 more or less. But the guy is in his late '70s, ran his business poorly and can't retire, has failing health and (though he's a PITA sometimes) I can't go after him for the $54,000. We're fine financially and are young. He isn't. We let it go. Plus who knows, it may not be super cut and dried like the insurance thing was.

So there ya go a nice novel for you . Basically I wouldn't sue either crasru, unless I *knew* the biller was insured. Yes, she's incredibly lame for doing that but... eh. I couldn't live with myself if I put someone out of their home.

 

[Lovinggems]

Crasru I don't agree with those advocating not to sue/get your money back. I would check and check again that you are covered against being sued/liable yourself before you make the final decision. Seems like it might have wider implications. I think zipzapgirl's advice is good, take the necessary steps to protect your business.