IF you didn''t have children would you want children and why?

[KimberlyH]

To answer the OPs original question: my husband and I have been married for just over a year and a half, we agreed that this would be the point at which we would decide whether or not we want a child/ren. I actually brought it up yesterday and he asked for a few more weeks to mull it over before we sit down and say yes or no for sure and then work out logistics (adoption vs. biological, when, etc.), I respect his thoughtfulness as he could simply concede to whatever my opinion on the subject is and if we make the decision to have a child/ren I don''t want it to be for me I want it to be because he and I both want to be parents. I have a list of pros/cons already written that I plan to discuss with him when the time comes for us to talk about this. The top item on my list of pros is that we would be making a thoughtful and conscientious decision to be parents. There are several other factors that come into play as well, both positive and negative. A negative consideration is that I will have earned my teaching credential in June and we both want me to be able to stay home for the first few years which will put my career on hold, not an easy pill to swallow after having worked so hard for my M.Ed.

We have very strong feelings about social responsibility that fall in line with those that have discussed the overpopulation issues. We also have to make this choice not because we have family members who will be helpful, although we do, but because the two of us want to have a child and raise it. Our child would be our responsibility, and I can''t imagine expecting anyone, family or not, to provide us with babysitting, special economic considerations, etc. If we aren''t in a sound position economically or mentally neither one of us feels we have the right to have children. There are also no guarantees that having a child/ren means that we will have someone to care for us in our old age, etc.

Having considered all of the changes that will take place in our life, both good and bad, I am feeling very sure that I want a child, and my husband is feeling the same, but just wants to think some more about the logistics of it all. We shall see where this leads...

 

[zhuzhu]

Genetically speaking, the urge for human race to want to "reproduce" is actually a completely selfish motivation. In ancient time human did not have the technology to be productive in food production, and/or to have sufficient self-defense UNLESS they have as many children under the same household as possible to help out in the farming/hunting and self-defense. In fact that is the main reason the constitution of marriage was created to insure that offsprings of each household are guaranteed to carry the same genetic materials as the founder of the family unit (so they thought).

In the modern days, the concerns mentioned above really SHOULD NOT apply. Women have a significantly more important and multi-faceted roles to play in the society, than to just being a mother and care for the husband only. Therefore even the motherhood is essentially our biological right, it should be examined carefully because it now bears very different implications and responsibility.

I have tons of respect for those who treat motherhood as one of the most important role to play in life, and it IS. I just think that women who decide to be childless should be respected equally, and that those who want to be mothers think throughly before becoming one. This will truly help make both individual families and society a better place in the long term.

I thank everyone for you insightful inputs!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/10/2008 6:38:37 PM
Author: Kaleigh
For those that don''t want to pay taxes when they choose not to have kids, how about all the people that paid taxes so you could go to school?? Thinking it all balances out...

No one''s taxes paid for ANY of my education. Not even a cent.

I don''t mind paying taxes for education because it is an important part of society, but I have a hard time wanting to pay taxes for people to get an education who then choose to throw it away a.k.a. high school drop outs who cease being productive in society. I think whoever said that it''s not a village who raises a child, it''s a parent is spot on. There are far too many parents out there today who don''t care enough about their children. There are people out there who would pay big money to be able to have a baby, and then there are the individuals who have a baby and then treat it as though they are a piece of trash. Luckily, my parents, both adoptive and biological, cared enough about me to get me into a family who desperately wanted to have biological children but couldn''t, and would do anything to parent (yes the verb) a child. Apparently I was so great that they didn''t need any more.

I know that D and my decision to not have children is going to devastate my mom, but I think that she would understand why we''re choosing not to. She loves kids and probably should have been able to have more so she could make their lives as great as mine have been. I should mention that she is the youngest of 10 kids, with 20 years between her and her oldest sister.

I find the Duggar Family to be absolutely disgustingly irresponsible and incredibly selfish. I''ve watched a few of the specials on them and their experience before and it frightens me. They spend thousands of dollars on groceries a week, the children built their house, and the oldest children parent the youngest. Can you imagine the toll all of that child birth has taken on that woman''s lady parts?! I really think that part of the appeal of having so many children for them is the massive spectacle and the media attention. I can''t help buy think that they are self-centered and socially dismissive of the long time ramifications of having so many children who are going to go on to have so many more children. Ugh. I can''t stand them, in case you couldn''t tell. Their "about us" page

 

[Beacon]

I think that most people have kids because they want to, not because they are forced. They think they will live a happier life with children. Therefore they are acting in exact accordance with their own wishes and desires. It could be called fulfilling one's self interest.

A person who chooses not to have kids is acting in accordance with their wishes and desires and is fulfilling their self interest exactly the same as someone who decided to have kids. Neither choices are selfish and it is quite unfair to unilaterally decide that one choice is selfish.

(please not that I am leaving bizarre cases like a family with 17 kids entirely out of my thoughts. They represent, mercifully, a very tiny part of the population. )

I think prospective parents need to carefully examine the burdens, both emotional and economic, before they have kids. Certainly it is the responsiblity of the parent to provide for their kids and raise them. To expect friends and neighbors and other people's money to do the job is setting oneself up for real disappointment.

I also think the idea of having kids so you can be a burden on them in your old age could be termed selfish, but more realistically, it is better labled: folly. It would be nice if the kids were in a position, mentally, financially and emotionally to care for the aging parent but looking around at real life situations it appears to be the exception more often than the rule. Sorry.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 2/10/2008 7:36:10 PM
Author: lumpkin

Date: 2/10/2008 7:28:14 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I am going to have to disagree wth lumpkin. I frankly think having large families is selfish. The world is overpopulated and a lot of the problems we face, ie global warming, famines, compitition for resources like oil, etc are all made worse by the population.
If people had far fewer children in the next generation, then they all get better access to everything because there is not so much compitition. Colleges can''t continue to raise their rates double the rate of inflation like they are if there aren''t enough people to support that.
I refuse to have more than 2 children because my FI and I don''t want to add to the world population, just enough to replace ourselves.
I am frankly horrified about the family in the south with 17 kids, there is no way the children are getting the care and attention they should and I think that is very selfish indeed.

I didn''t say anything about having 17 kids!!! OMG.

My FI actually has a familt portrait they did with the caption: "(lady parts) are not clown cars". I think that really sums it up.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/10/2008 9:13:24 PM
Author: Beacon
(please not that I am leaving bizarre cases like a family with 17 kids entirely out of my thoughts. They represent, mercifully, a very tiny part of the population. )

Not for long though! If they have 17 kids, and each of those 17 kids has 10 offspring--there''s 170 grandchildren. Or if all of the 17 have 17 kids--thats 289 grandchildren!! The grandparents would never remember anyone''s names!!

I think I just keeled over from over abundance of Duggars.

 

[Haven]

To answer zhuzhu''s original question--we are the kind of couple that absolutely wants to have children, and we plan on doing so a few years after we marry.

As for all the discussion about selfishness, I really have to say that I think it''s quite ridiculous to say that either people who don''t have children or people who do are selfish. It''s a personal choice, and I''m definitely not going to make judgments about anyone else''s decisions.

As for me, I''ve always wanted children, and I still want children even after working with other people''s children for several years.

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 2/10/2008 10:54:35 PM
Author: Haven
To answer zhuzhu''s original question--we are the kind of couple that absolutely wants to have children, and we plan on doing so a few years after we marry.


As for all the discussion about selfishness, I really have to say that I think it''s quite ridiculous to say that either people who don''t have children or people who do are selfish. It''s a personal choice, and I''m definitely not going to make judgments about anyone else''s decisions.


As for me, I''ve always wanted children, and I still want children even after working with other people''s children for several years.

Well said, Haven. I agree entirely.

 

[diamondfan]

I do not judge. I also do not find it selfish to want, or not want, children. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have kids. Personally, two or three was a comfortable number. Our third came along when we had been married over ten years. He is our joy, and though our two older ones are a quite a few years older, and it makes a difference now, I think and hope they will find common bonds when they are older. I am proud of my kids, adore them, and want them to be happy and successful in life. They bring joy and some heartache too!

 

[surfgirl]

lumpkin, you have a very valid point about educating future generations because they do indeed pay into my social security. So let me say this then, I''d be happier paying school taxes for other people''s kids if I got a serious tax credit for not over-populating the world. To me, people/couples without children should be getting a big fat tax credit because of the strain we''re not putting on social services, natural resources, etc. That''s my personal opinion. It always galls me when Presidents tout "family tax breaks" and those of us who choose to not add to the global population problem, we get nada. To me, that''s whack and it sort of plays into what others were saying about how if you choose to, or dont/cant have children, you''re somehow not worthy according to our society...To me, my government plays into this by never offering incentives or tax breaks for childless couples/individuals. I''m sure that probably sounds crazy to people with children but that''s how I feel.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Have you seen that peanut butter commercial where Cody and Jake are stressed over the last slice of bread? Jake gets to cut and Cody gets to choose? Well, that is why I want to become a parent. Hubbub has always had that sort of view on things. I would love to experience learning from him as he teaches all of us. He would have done the same thing. "Jake you cut but Cody you get to choose" the cutter obviously doesn''t make a fair equal cut. But the next time he will! That is parenting.

I had hoped to start our family by now, but we had a loss in our family and are now the main financial supporter of what remains. Their lack of planning has put ours on hold. So, really, I suppose that is where my sacrifice (which is what all you parents are doing) love and care should go right now. If I were to become as parent, it would end up being a form of resentment somewhere...I recognize that. (not sure I actually just said anything of merit that resembles a sane thought...rambling I apologize.)

On the school thing...I really want to march my two four legged children in class...as I am paying for them to be there.

I am truly honored to help support the future in educating our children today. So many countries do not have children as fortunate as ours. But as many of you know my opinions and conservative views...I wish I could vote by holding back my taxes on certain issues I deem inappropriate or unwise. That is my problem with paying into a system I have no control over. If I were running this place...I would allow the tax payer a voice and divide the money they do pay...in voting segments. That way I am allowed to allocate funds on controversial issues the way I see fit. And then the remaining should go to normal running admin costs. That way just like in an election the majority wins and as a voter you walk away knowing you have done all you can to be heard-or to make an attempt at change.

That being said, If I have a child, it will be home schooled until first grade (because I am a moron..and that is all I could assist on) and then private there after. Becuase of the times. School is not what it was when I attended. (I did attend public tax funded schools. And I am grateful for all that paid to make my education what it was). -This is my opinion and it is my intention and what is right FOR ME I would not have a child until I could assure my non public school parenting intentions can be fulfilled.

So to answer the op...NUTSHELL: no kids because of obligations...desire kids to teach me more about life...and to share equal portions of peanut butter sandwiches.

 

[eks6426]

I''m going to go out on a limb here and admit something some of you will probably want to smack me for...but I have kids...10 year old boy & 18 year old step son. I love my kids, I really do. But honestly raising a child is hardwork and if I knew what I knew now and could go back, I''m not sure I''d have one again. Maybe I''m selfish but children really do take over your life and I''m not sure I like that. I really do feel like I put "me" entirely on hold. I think I was too old too young...Never had any fun in college...worked 60 hours a week. Got married 2 weeks after graduating and had my son quickly after that. Sometimes, I think I really need to have that "me" time that I never got.

So, don''t hate me all of you with kids who think they are the most wonderful things in the world. I do love my son. Just not sure I''d do it all over again.

 

[nytemist]

Another person here who does not want chidlren. I have always felt that. My clock is broken.

I''ve had so many people tell me in the past ''oh you''ll change your mind when you get around thirty''. Nope, didn''t happen. I''ve had people give the whole ''you''re so selfish to not expericence the best thing on earth'' speech. Maybe it is to you, but to me the best experience could be traveling to Japan, going out whenener I want or lving life comfortable enough that I don''t worry about bills (at least too much).

I have a couple of friends that are totally on board with the ''you aren''t complete as a woman if you don''t have children''. Every time I see one of these friends, she tries to convince me to change my mind, since I''m so good with infants. Put me in a room of infants and I''m having a blast. I was master of babysitting as a teen, even spent a weekend with my neighbors twins. I love to babysit now, though everyone says it''s different when they are yours. But that''s enough for me- I can give them back.

Of course it got worse when I got married. That same friend kept saying, wow just think how adventurous and smart your kids will be. Call me selfish, but there are far too many other things in life I want to do and to me I couldn''t imagine giving up 18-20 years of other fun I could be having.

 

[TravelingGal]

I don''t see how anyone could possibly view themselves as selfish for not having children. It''s honest and real! Not to mention a wise choice NOT to have them if you don''t want to be a responsible parent.

Island Dreams...I don''t think that''s something to be smacked for...again, I think it''s honest and more people feel that way than you''d think. Especially if they had kids early. I am having my first child at 35 and feel fortunate that I got a lot of "me" time under my belt. I do not regret not having kids earlier...although I may change my mind when I have a 15 year old at 50!

Re: taxes to send other kids to school. Never even thought of it, and have no problems with it. Yeah, my taxes may be paying for some kid to be a drop out. But it also may be paying for someone who becomes a doctor who saves my life someday. Or maybe a budding scientist who discovers the cure for cancer. I guess I''m more big picture that way...we all are part of society after all.

 

[LitigatorChick]

Nytemist, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, and have made a decision that works FOR YOU. I hate that people "assume" so many things about other people.

 

[Beacon]

Island Dreams you are very honest and not at all alone. I know people who feel as you do. One woman I know has a daughter and if she could do it again she would be childless. She is a talented careerwoman, very adventurous and multi talented. The lifestyle of being a mother is not her highest value. She is lucky as her husband has a stable job not requiring travel (she's an exec and has a hectic one). Her husband provides more of the childcare.

She is a great person, a good parent, she spares her daughter nothing and she loves the girl, but if she could do it over she would have no kids. She is also excellent with little kids as I have seen her handling newborns and toddlers and she is like a pro. But what can one say, it's not who she is and she did not realize it til the child was already born. That's how life goes sometimes....

 

[nytemist]

Thanks LC! I try my hardest to leep my head together.

And I agree- assumptions are the worst.

 

[diamondfan]

Island, that is a very honest answer. It is not about not loving your child, and you certainly have a right to look back and think, knowing what you know now, that you would have been okay not to. Has nothing to do with the reality now.

I adore my kids, and do not really regret having them, but it does put a strain on me emotionally as I am extremely worried about them all of the time. I am a good mom, and try not to show it, but boy, when something is wrong I work myself up and get very consumed. Some people are so calm and unruffled, that is not my way. It has taken years off of my life!

 

[Lord Summerisle]

ok - other side of the gender fence - but another couple here who are child free.

Both Lady S and myself have been through the kind of relationships where the other half is pushing to start a family - and it doesnt work.
Both of us quite open with each other when we got together about our position to kids (tho we''d know each other for years)

Like others - Lady S has always thought her clock was broken - just never taken any interest in kids, no goo goo gaga. and I''m the same.

Our descision was tested early last year when i developed a tumor, and had to have something removed... and the follow up treatment carried a risk that i would be made infertile, and was offered the option of banking (but would mean a delay in treatment due to extra tests needed). Both of us were in the consultancy room at the time, and decided that our opinions about having kids has remained solid throughout our lives and that my health took priority at the time, so declined.

My Brother in law is the opposite he wanted kids, but a genetic abnomality means he cant, so he and his wife when the IVF route, and now have 3 kids (the second arrived as twins - recent changes to the law in the UK to allow children born of sperm dotation are able to trace their biological fathers... ment that a lot of men stopped. not wishing some kid(s) turning up on their doorstep saying ''hi dad''. Recently there was a recuitment drive in the Scotland as they only had one registered donar in the whole of the country)

So when they where going for their second they were told it was an all or nothing thing there wasnt enough stock of donations to allow a second attempt - so she had fertility drugs to increas the chances...

My sis is the career woman - working hard to building up her business so she can retire at 40, but wanted kids, currently has 1, with 1 due next month.. but she''s always joked that while she wanted kids she''d prefer to be knocked out until they are 18. A bit like when she decides to redecorate... thats her imput, she wants someone else to make all the decisions

and true to the stereotype - we have 20 Gerbils (atm) which Lady S has the occasional tendancy to mother

 

[Maisie]

I have 5 children. I am a natural mother I think. It comes extremely easily to me and I love it.

If I could have my time again I think I wouldn't have started so young (1 but on the other hand, I am finished at 36! Young enough to still have fun, with the two eldest kids old enough to babysit the younger ones!

 

[Joolskie]

Date: 2/10/2008 4:59:05 PM
Author: surfgirl

Date: 2/10/2008 4:44:50 PM

Author: Pandora II

I''m afraid I really disagree with you here.


If I am paying my taxes and not having children, I am paying a large amount of $$$ to fund other people''s childrens'' education, child support money, school infastructures etc.


Far more people have children than don''t so I don''t agree with your economic argument. It could equally be said that women going out to work has skewed the system. For a start, house prices are high because two people''s pay packages are going into financing the mortgage. This now means that unless your partner has a high paying job, a woman has to work as houses are unaffordable without two salaries. Women in the workforce also means that there are more people available for jobs thus allowing lower wages to be paid. It could therefore be argued that women are ''selfish'' for wanting jobs.


Equally, just because a member of my family choses to have a child it doesn''t mean that I should have to babysit their child anymore than they should have to babysit my pythons. I wouldn''t expect anyone to babysit a child of mine unless I was paying them to do so. My sister has two children and I see them once a year if that. Ditto with FI''s niece. They are their children and nothing to do with me. I''m interested to know why you feel that your family are selfish for not wanting to help bring up the offspring that YOU decided to have?


If you decide to have children, you need to make arrangements for childcare etc in advance of having them - ditto planning for your old-age. FI and I are already planning for our old-age so that we don''t have to ever be a burden on our children and they have the freedom to live their lives as they wish. For example, what happens if a couple from different countries marry, whose parents should they choose to support in their old-age?


Both my and FI''s mothers have made it very clear that whilst they''d love to see their grandchildren for a day or so every now and then - and they adore them - they aren''t prepared to act as unpaid babysitters except in emergencies. They both have their own lives - have had their own children and are done child-rearing. We live a few hours drive from both of them, so it''s not an issue, but I totally understand their feelings and think they are perfectly entitled to feel that way. I certainly don''t think they are being selfish.

Ditto to all of this. I''d go farther and say that I dont really think it''s fair that people who dont have kids, have to pay taxes for schools for those that do. I think a fairer way to tax schooling would be for families to be taxes per child. If you have one kids you pay X school taxes. If you have more, well, then you have to pay more. So many people have a bunch of kids that they cant afford to have, they live above their means, and complain all the time (I''m not referring to anyone here, just in my real life in general) about how expensive it all is, blah blah blah and all I can wonder is why the heck did they have X number of kids when they couldn''t afford it in the first place? Not to mention so many people dont even seem to like being parents in the first place. They like having kids, but not the parenting part. That''s what baffles me...

Hey, you can have kids and still get screwed in the school taxes department! My children attend a Catholic school... yet we pay the same public school tax that everyone else does. Just sayin''

 

[surfgirl]

LordS, TWENTY gerbils??? What does one do with 20 gerbils?

 

[diamondfan]

Joolskie, my hubby reminds me of that too! I live in an area where the taxes for the public school are pretty high, our local schools are great and spend a lot per pupil. But, we send all three to private school, and the tuition and costs for each is 20,000 to 30,000.00 ranging from K to 9th grade. He factors in the taxes on top of that, and considers that part of the school cost! Yikes.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 2/13/2008 6:07:50 PM
Author: surfgirl
LordS, TWENTY gerbils??? What does one do with 20 gerbils?

Allow them to breed apparently!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/13/2008 6:07:50 PM
Author: surfgirl
LordS, TWENTY gerbils??? What does one do with 20 gerbils?

Ha ha ha! We have 3 hamsters (1 female in her own cage, and 2 males that live together) and two turtles. If I had it my way we''d have a few more hamsters, a chinchilla and several dogs. I love animals, and I look forward to having more. I guess kids have been replaced by animals in my life.

 

[motownmama]

I think society, families, the media ... all put alot of pressure on couples to have kids - it''s kind of glamorized. I wanted kids deperately and had 4 - one every other year starting the year after we got married. I totally respect people who don''t want this lifestyle, though. It''s a fun, wild ride - but it''s ALL consuming. Yes, I love my kids like crazy, but you have to be very committed to this job all day, every day. Travel, date night, "me time" are a challenge to put it mildly. If you don''t want kids trust your instincts. I don''t see anything selfish about it.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 2/13/2008 6:16:59 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy

Date: 2/13/2008 6:07:50 PM

Author: surfgirl

LordS, TWENTY gerbils??? What does one do with 20 gerbils?

Allow them to breed apparently!

Not at all

All but 2 of the gerbils are rescue gerbils - They were dumped on the doorstep of someone just after last christmas (''06) at that point they were no more than a couple of months old. We took the boys from the litter - about 6 or 7 of them, but when we got home and sexed them ourselves we found that there was one female in the group of boys, so we went back for the females, not wishing this one to be on her own.
So the 20 are spread in groups of 2 to 4 around our office in about 8 fish tanks.