I''m starting to resent this whole thing.

[upsidedown]

Hi everyone...

I'm 27 and my boyfriend and I have been dating for 3 years. He's perfect in every way - kind, wise, mature, considerate, funny, smart.. my parents love him.. I love his parents. He is always right, about everything, all the time, and I think that's because he's an aries, and it is something that I respect him for, but also I think it sometimes affects the equality in our relationship. He constantly makes helpful suggestions about how I can do things better, and he doesn't understand that I feel patronised and criticised.. he's only trying to help.

Another thing that (is starting to) affect the equality in our relationship is the LIW syndrome. We've been together for 3 years, and for the last 2 I've been dropping hints! He says he is sure about this, he says he wants marriage and children, but he also has no sense of urgency about it. My clock is definitely ticking and I'd like to have my first child no later than 30.. he has agreed that this is good timing.. but seriously I feel like he might be agreeing so that I'll stop talking about it. He turned 30 earlier this year, we have lived together for nearly two years, we both work fulltime and pay our own way, we're comfortable and secure in our relationship - I have been thinking that maybe there is no motivation for him to change anything about our situation. But anything I can think of that would "shake up" the situation would just end up making it worse. At the moment, every few months when I can't take it anymore I sit down and try to have a rational conversation about it - he acts coy about it and I always end up crying, it's pathetic. It blows my mind that he knows that I want something so much and he doesn't do anything about it.

I've thought about proposing to him. Up until now though, I've thought that (1) he might find it unmanning (he's an aries remember) or (2) he might be days away from proposing himself and I'd ruin his surprise (that's feeling less and less likely).

The worst thing is, we're happy, he's wonderful, I don't know why marriage is such a big deal for me. I wish I could stop wanting it. I'm ruining special occasions for myself because I obsess about whether tonight is the night and then it's *crushing* when nothing happens. I'm missing out on just enjoying him as things are, because there's this niggling growing question in the back of my mind about why he's choosing not to take this step. I'm questioning myself and my desirability as a wife because he already knows all that he should need to know in order to make this decision and he hasn't made it.

The thing he says every time we talk about it is that he hadn't thought about it since the last conversation, that it's not something guys think about all the time, and I should just try to stop thinking about it until it happens.

Last year just before xmas we came back home from a friend's wedding and he whispered to me that we would be engaged soon. Of course I thought he meant xmastime! All of our families were around at our house on xmas day, and nothing happened. All of our friends were around on NY Eve, and nothing happened. I talked to him about it a few days later (I was trying not to be upset, but you know I was) and he said that 'soon' meant sometime within the next 5 years.

I do trust his intentions, he has never let me down, but I just can't help freaking out about this issue.. I'm the girl who never cared about weddings or babies, but the older I get the more important they become.

I had thought that he was waiting until after his best friend got married, then I thought he was waiting till after he was 30, then I thought he might be waiting till after he started his new job (a lot more money), now I'm "expecting" it on my 28th birthday in July.. but I think I'll probably ruin my birthday for myself by hoping for something that's not going to happen.

Also, we used to be able to talk about everything. Now if I say "hey can we talk?" he says "only if it's not about weddings or babies".

sorry for the novel.. I don't know what to do.

 

[FrekeChild]

Welcome to PS!!

I don''t know what to say besides, you''re among friends here. And we''re good to vent to.

 

[upsidedown]

Date: 5/14/2008 6:28:08 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Welcome to PS!!

Thanks!

Even just getting that out makes me feel so much better

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Hey girly,

I think a lot of ladies go through what you are going through. It''s hard not to get your hopes up when special occasions arise, but you have to try not to cause like you said, you will be disappointed. Have you ever tried to talk to him about why he wants to wait longer? Tell him you don''t fully understand why he wants to wait, and it''s making the fact that you have to wait all that harder. Maybe there are financial reasons, or he may just not be ready. Either way, he owes a clear and concise explanation to you. Afterall, you are in a relationship. It''s not fair for you to sit there and wonder...

I would x-may proposing to him.... But I am a traditional kinda girl.

 

[ladypirate]

He said soon was withing the next 5 years?!?!?!

I mean, I understand that there's a difference between boy soon and girl soon, but seriously? That is ridiculous.

If you guys are in your late 20s/early 30s and have already been together 3 years, why is he dragging his feet? It's not like you're fresh out of college. This is something that is important to you: you want to be starting on kids by the time you're 30, which means you need to start TTC at the latest when you're 29, which is 2 years away. Assuming you'd like to be married for a year first, that means you need to be engaged, you know, NOW. Have you pointed this out to him?

You say that everything is great and you're happy, but you are obviously not happy if you're bursting into tears over the same issue every few months and he's not doing anything about it. You say "It blows my mind that he knows that I want something so much and he doesn't do anything about it." Well, that blows my mind, too. If this guy cares about you, why is he being so hurtful?

I think you need to make sure that he actually does want to get married and isn't just throwing out vague promises to put it off, because to me it sounds like he isn't serious about making it happen and since it's so important to you, that just seems unacceptable.

Sorry if that sounds harsh or if I'm misreading the situation, but it sounds like he's jerking you around and that makes me mad. If a guy loves you, he should love you enough to care about things that are important to you. He's 30 years old--he should know after 3 years whether he's ready to make that commitment. Next time you say "Hey, can we talk?" and he replies in that way, you should tell him off for being too immature to seriously discuss your future.

ETA: Obviously this touched a nerve with me--I guess it just frustrates me that there are so many guys out there that would act like this. I can't even imagine SO doing that, but I can tell you that it would tick me off to no end.

 

[goodfun7580]

Welcome to PS! I know how you feel and as I was reading your post alot of it rang true with me. Especially about the part about expecting it for your July birthday, since I am also hoping for a proposal on my b-day (July 5th; I will also be turning 28 YIKES!) but I doubt that will happen for me. Its hard to not grow resentful and I know for me the feelings of resentfulness come and go. Sometimes I just feel so lucky to be with my bf that it fades away and other times I wonder how could he could have me waiting all this time for something he claims to want as well. The only thing you can do is just hang in there and try to focus on the positive. It sounds like you both want the same thing so that is good. Good luck!

 

[purrfectpear]

You''ve lived together for 2 years. He''s just not that into you. He has zero motivation to take the next step because HE already HAS what he wants. A steady relationship. What he doesn''t want is kids, marriage, or to even talk about the subject.

You don''t really need us to spell this out. You already know what''s going on. You just hate the thought that you''ve invested 2 years.

Ask yourself...wanna waste another 2

I''m really sorry he''s like that but you deserve better. Your responsiblity was to tell him what your expectations were. You''ve done that. His responsibility was to tell you if he agreed and to give you a timeline. He hasn''t really even been that honest there. So far the only timeline is "maybe in 5 years".

Personally I wouldn''t be hoping, waiting, or convincing myself that just one more day would be the "special day". Hugs to you though.

 

[jennypoo]

Date: 5/14/2008 6:08:47 PM
Author:upsidedown
Hi everyone...


I'm 27 and my boyfriend and I have been dating for 3 years. He's perfect in every way - kind, wise, mature, considerate, funny, smart.. my parents love him.. I love his parents. He is always right, about everything, all the time, and I think that's because he's an aries, and it is something that I respect him for, but also I think it sometimes affects the equality in our relationship. He constantly makes helpful suggestions about how I can do things better, and he doesn't understand that I feel patronised and criticised.. he's only trying to help.


Another thing that (is starting to) affect the equality in our relationship is the LIW syndrome. We've been together for 3 years, and for the last 2 I've been dropping hints! He says he is sure about this, he says he wants marriage and children, but he also has no sense of urgency about it. My clock is definitely ticking and I'd like to have my first child no later than 30.. he has agreed that this is good timing.. but seriously I feel like he might be agreeing so that I'll stop talking about it. He turned 30 earlier this year, we have lived together for nearly two years, we both work fulltime and pay our own way, we're comfortable and secure in our relationship - I have been thinking that maybe there is no motivation for him to change anything about our situation. But anything I can think of that would 'shake up' the situation would just end up making it worse. At the moment, every few months when I can't take it anymore I sit down and try to have a rational conversation about it - he acts coy about it and I always end up crying, it's pathetic. It blows my mind that he knows that I want something so much and he doesn't do anything about it.


I've thought about proposing to him. Up until now though, I've thought that (1) he might find it unmanning (he's an aries remember) or (2) he might be days away from proposing himself and I'd ruin his surprise (that's feeling less and less likely).


The worst thing is, we're happy, he's wonderful, I don't know why marriage is such a big deal for me. I wish I could stop wanting it. I'm ruining special occasions for myself because I obsess about whether tonight is the night and then it's *crushing* when nothing happens. I'm missing out on just enjoying him as things are, because there's this niggling growing question in the back of my mind about why he's choosing not to take this step. I'm questioning myself and my desirability as a wife because he already knows all that he should need to know in order to make this decision and he hasn't made it.


The thing he says every time we talk about it is that he hadn't thought about it since the last conversation, that it's not something guys think about all the time, and I should just try to stop thinking about it until it happens.


Last year just before xmas we came back home from a friend's wedding and he whispered to me that we would be engaged soon. Of course I thought he meant xmastime! All of our families were around at our house on xmas day, and nothing happened. All of our friends were around on NY Eve, and nothing happened. I talked to him about it a few days later (I was trying not to be upset, but you know I was) and he said that 'soon' meant sometime within the next 5 years.


I do trust his intentions, he has never let me down, but I just can't help freaking out about this issue.. I'm the girl who never cared about weddings or babies, but the older I get the more important they become.


I had thought that he was waiting until after his best friend got married, then I thought he was waiting till after he was 30, then I thought he might be waiting till after he started his new job (a lot more money), now I'm 'expecting' it on my 28th birthday in July.. but I think I'll probably ruin my birthday for myself by hoping for something that's not going to happen.


Also, we used to be able to talk about everything. Now if I say 'hey can we talk?' he says 'only if it's not about weddings or babies'.


sorry for the novel.. I don't know what to do.

Girl, I could have written your post myself! I don't have any sound advice because I too am in the exact same boat.

I know your pain!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 5/14/2008 8:16:50 PM
Author: purrfectpear
You''ve lived together for 2 years. He''s just not that into you. He has zero motivation to take the next step because HE already HAS what he wants. A steady relationship. What he doesn''t want is kids, marriage, or to even talk about the subject.

You don''t really need us to spell this out. You already know what''s going on. You just hate the thought that you''ve invested 2 years.

Ask yourself...wanna waste another 2

I''m really sorry he''s like that but you deserve better. Your responsiblity was to tell him what your expectations were. You''ve done that. His responsibility was to tell you if he agreed and to give you a timeline. He hasn''t really even been that honest there. So far the only timeline is ''maybe in 5 years''.

Personally I wouldn''t be hoping, waiting, or convincing myself that just one more day would be the ''special day''. Hugs to you though.

I think that''s pretty rough. Just cause someone is not ready for marriage DOESN''T mean they aren''t into you. It just takes some people longer than others. It also depends on personal circumstances. Maybe he is broke.. maybe he comes from a broken home... maybe he doesn''t really care about marriage and a piece of paper to validate the way he feels...

what the true problem is is that he knows how much she wants to be married and he isn''t listening or reassuring her the way he ought to.

 

[lawstudent]

I agree - some people need more time to come around. I wanted my fiance to propose so badly last year...and he finally did but a year later (this March). He knew I wanted it, and we had been together for 5 years. Marriage is a big deal, and you don''t want the proposal to be disingenuous. I dealt with my frustration by remembering to focus on me - as strange as it sounds, getting worked up over the proposal made me forget everything that made me happy outside the relationship - which in turn caused frustration within the relationship. Spend time with your girlfriends - better yet, make evening plans with your friends BEFORE checking with your boyfriend to remind yourself that you''re a busy girl with lots to do! Believe it or not, putting yourself first is often the best thing for a healthy relationship, and it''s too often what women forget. I did, anyway.

My fiance was like your boyfriend - the proposal simply wasn''t something he thought about unless I brought it up. This made me feel like I was nagging - not the kind of woman I wanted to be. I''m rambling, but my big point is that he''ll come around. For my boyfriend, it happened in January when he took a trip with his friend to India. He came back with perspective, and he asked me to marry him of his own volition - no coercion required!!

In the meantime, focus on you and get back to the things that bring you joy in life. The proposal may still nag you, but consciously focus on other ways to be happy. Harping on it won''t help him come around, and it won''t help you feel better about yourself. That''s my experience anyway

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 5/14/2008 8:32:53 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 5/14/2008 8:16:50 PM

Author: purrfectpear

You''ve lived together for 2 years. He''s just not that into you. He has zero motivation to take the next step because HE already HAS what he wants. A steady relationship. What he doesn''t want is kids, marriage, or to even talk about the subject.


You don''t really need us to spell this out. You already know what''s going on. You just hate the thought that you''ve invested 2 years.


Ask yourself...wanna waste another 2

I''m really sorry he''s like that but you deserve better. Your responsiblity was to tell him what your expectations were. You''ve done that. His responsibility was to tell you if he agreed and to give you a timeline. He hasn''t really even been that honest there. So far the only timeline is ''maybe in 5 years''.


Personally I wouldn''t be hoping, waiting, or convincing myself that just one more day would be the ''special day''. Hugs to you though.

I think that''s pretty rough. Just cause someone is not ready for marriage DOESN''T mean they aren''t into you. It just takes some people longer than others. It also depends on personal circumstances. Maybe he is broke.. maybe he comes from a broken home... maybe he doesn''t really care about marriage and a piece of paper to validate the way he feels...


what the true problem is is that he knows how much she wants to be married and he isn''t listening or reassuring her the way he ought to.

That last sentence is exactly what the problem is and what makes me think that PurrfectPear might actually be right in her assessment. Even if he weren''t ready because of personal circumstances, at 30 he should be mature enough to at least discuss the subject rationally rather than being "coy" and reducing the OP to tears. That''s just not right.

 

[absolut_blonde]

I think you need to sit him down and have a long, serious talk. Don't let him avoid the subject or put you off by saying this 'soon' stuff any longer. Tell him what you told us and explain why you're upset.

From what you've written, there are a few key things that I think you should tell him:

- He needs to be more clear about a timeline. Saying 'soon' has only falsely gotten your hopes up -- on a number of occasions and for a LONG time. The cycle of getting your hopes up and have them crushed over and over is in and of itself, detrimental to your relationship with time. And it's just plain unfair to you.

- On that note, this is a relationship involving TWO people. He does not call all of the shots. You have the right to know where it is headed and whether you two are on the same page.

- If he isn't ready, then he needs to tell you so. Yes, your feelings will be hurt. But it is better for the both of you in the long run than for him to simply buy time constantly.

- Or if he's not sure about you/the relationship/the idea of marriage, he needs to tell you that so you can determine whether that's something you are willing to put up with.

- Then finally the children thing. This is a very valid point and he needs to realize that it is important to you. Although people can and do have kids well into their 30s, fertility does decline with age and if he isn't going to take things to the next level then I think you'd be well served to find someone who will.


Basically, I wouldn't give him an ultimatum but I would ask him to think long and hard about where he's at. This is your life too and you need to know where you stand so that YOU can plan accordingly. As it stands, I think he's being really unfair to you.

 

[PearlDahhhling]

I didn''t take the time to read everyone''s responses before posting this, so I''m sorry if I''m repeating anyone, but here''s my two cents:

You need to think about what you want, and you need to think about your life priorities and where you want your life to go. If starting a family by the time you''re 30 is something that is very important to you, then you need to take the steps to get there. It''s your life, take charge of it.

Once you have seriously thought about what you want your life to turn out like, you need to sit him down and have a serious talk with him about it. Don''t let your emotions get in the way. Be rational and clear with him and let him know your position. Don''t cry, don''t get upset or emotional. Just talk.

I think one of the main reasons guys sometimes don''t like to talk to their women about these sorts of things is because we females tend to get seriously emotional when talking about marriage and children (especially if the conversation doesn''t go the way we want), and guys aren''t too fond of having to deal with crying/blubbering/yelling etc.

You just need to take control of the situation and instead of just waiting around to see if he''s going to propose, find out if he''s actually planning on doing it sometime soon (and no, 5 years doesn''t count as soon... haha). It''s your life and your relationship too and you deserve to know if it''s going anywhere. And you deserve to have the things in your life that you want.

So basically what I''m saying, is just sit him down and have one final talk with him. Don''t give him an ultimatum, but let him know where you stand, and also let him know that you aren''t going to wait around for him if he doesn''t want the same things that you want. But be sweet about it all. Make this a conversation that will make him WANT to pop the question because he''ll realize that he really DOES want to get married to you and have kids with you ASAP.

Hope that all made sense and/or helped!

Good Luck!

 

[Allison D.]

Engagement/marriage won''t happen until both people are ready.

What it takes to be "ready" is different for each person. He cannot miraculously feel ''ready'' on your schedule; if he isn''t ready, nothing you can do can hasten him. Do you know what ''his'' optimal ready criteria are? You seem to be guessing at what milestone he''s waiting to pass (friend married, turning 30, etc) instead of asking him directly what things affect his ''ready'' timeline. You''ve told him yours (want to be married and have first child by 30); it seems reasonable to ask what factors will affect his being ready.

The only time reference he seems to have made is that he perceives "soon" to mean within the next five years. That clearly doesn''t gel with your hoped-for time frame if you want to be married prior to having a child by 30. So, the ball is in your court. You need to give serious thought to whether you''re okay with compromising your optimal timeline to better meet his.

If you aren''t willing to wait five years, I think you need to have a calm, rational discussion with him to say "We''ve spent three years together, so I feel like we know each other well enough to know if we want to make this relationship permanent. I''m ready for marriage and children, and I know I want to share those things with you. I want to ask you to take the next six months to consider if you want those same things too, and if you want them with me. If we aren''t both ready at the same time, I think we need to acknowledge that we''re just not there and make a change."

 

[fluffynurse]

i offer my virtual support... im in a similar situation , although im almost 29

(damn bf is younger lol... well not that much younger, he''s 27, but still...)

i doubt it''s because we''re being lead on... at the age you are, i hope you would be able to see through that, plus you''ve been living together 2 years...

In my case anyway, bf has somewhat verbalised that he feels no need to get married (although he''s ok with the idea in general, or at least not against it, just doesnt have a plan), he seems to feel that it just wouldn''t change anything for our daily routine, etc.

so i''m like well if it wont change anything then whats the big deal LOL

...... we even bought a house together!!(move in in august 08, but we''ve been living in apt. together for little over 2 years)... To me that was a MUCH bigger deal, well in terms of like pooling together our money and everything... men, they think we''re hard to figure out?? go figure... his work colleaugues tease him about being just like married since we got the house together, and people just kind of presume that we are engaged, so i like to tease him and be like see people who own a house together would usually at least be engaged... but that hasnt lead to any actual change in his behaviour lol...then again he probably thinks im joking

anyway, hang in there, keep on trucking as do i, at least we found a place where we can rant and people seem to understand us!! **virtual hug**

 

[bee*]

Date: 5/14/2008 10:26:22 PM
Author: Allison D.
Engagement/marriage won''t happen until both people are ready.


What it takes to be ''ready'' is different for each person. He cannot miraculously feel ''ready'' on your schedule; if he isn''t ready, nothing you can do can hasten him. Do you know what ''his'' optimal ready criteria are? You seem to be guessing at what milestone he''s waiting to pass (friend married, turning 30, etc) instead of asking him directly what things affect his ''ready'' timeline. You''ve told him yours (want to be married and have first child by 30); it seems reasonable to ask what factors will affect his being ready.


The only time reference he seems to have made is that he perceives ''soon'' to mean within the next five years. That clearly doesn''t gel with your hoped-for time frame if you want to be married prior to having a child by 30. So, the ball is in your court. You need to give serious thought to whether you''re okay with compromising your optimal timeline to better meet his.


If you aren''t willing to wait five years, I think you need to have a calm, rational discussion with him to say ''We''ve spent three years together, so I feel like we know each other well enough to know if we want to make this relationship permanent. I''m ready for marriage and children, and I know I want to share those things with you. I want to ask you to take the next six months to consider if you want those same things too, and if you want them with me. If we aren''t both ready at the same time, I think we need to acknowledge that we''re just not there and make a change.''

ditto to all of Alison''s post. If that really is his timeline-you have to decide whether you want to stay or go. As others have said and you yourself said, he''s getting everything in a wife, but yet he doesn''t have to make that commitment. He''s seems to be very comfortable with things as they are. You do need to sit down and have a discussion-both of you properly. It might hurt if he says that he''s really not going to want to get married in the next few years but you need to hear that. He has to tell you what he''s thinking as at the moment, it seems like when you bring it up he kind of brushes it under the carpet. When I first had a talk with D, he told me to give him nearly two years. We''d been dating since we were 17 and this was when we were 24. I felt comfortable with that as we were just getting our lives sorted after college etc, getting jobs and he did propose 18 months later. What I guess I''m trying to say is at least when the info''s all in the open, you can decide if you''re comfortable with it or not.

 

[that_someone_special]

*sigh*

I'm too tired to type a response right now. Other than this one.

 

[ringshopper2008]

Date: 5/14/2008 6:08:47 PM
Author:upsidedown
My clock is definitely ticking and I''d like to have my first child no later than 30..

My only qualm with your post is this line. If you have your 1st child at 31 as opposed to 30, what does it matter?

 

[ringless]

I''m sorry to hear that... i''m in the SAME boat, most of us are actually, but the only difference is I''ve been dating my bf for almost 7 years! I''m almost 24 though, so were still pretty young.. but I know how you feel! It''s very frustrating! I also wait for special occasioins and it''s very disappointing when it comes and goes, and no proposal! UGH!

 

[ringless]

Upsidedown -
I don't think it's more of a he's being hurtful, why is he acting that way when he knows what you want... Some guys just aren't ready, and that is definetly something (marriage) that you don't want to rush or force upon someone b/c your clock is ticking and their's isn't. I often think we make the whole LIW thing about US... and it's hard to consider the guys feelings on it, b/c it's something WE want RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

It really is a sticky situation, and honestly if you feel your time is coming and you don't see your bf moving in that direction you might need to re-evaluate the relationship and see if this is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with.
I don't like the waiting at all either, and i've given my bf a "range" of when I would like to get engaged, that way it's still a surprise and that way he also knows that i'm serious about the subject and want things to move forward or else we need to re-evaluate things and see where we stand in the relationship.

I also want to add that I lived with my bf for almost 3 years and that definetly didn't help us get closer to marriage... if you're serious about wanting to get engaged and you are pretty sure he's OK with how things are now, etc. then I would consider moving out until he actually does propose! I know this sounds harsh, but he may need that "I might lose her" moment!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 5/14/2008 10:26:22 PM
Author: Allison D.

Engagement/marriage won''t happen until both people are ready.

What it takes to be ''ready'' is different for each person. He cannot miraculously feel ''ready'' on your schedule; if he isn''t ready, nothing you can do can hasten him. Do you know what ''his'' optimal ready criteria are? You seem to be guessing at what milestone he''s waiting to pass (friend married, turning 30, etc) instead of asking him directly what things affect his ''ready'' timeline. You''ve told him yours (want to be married and have first child by 30); it seems reasonable to ask what factors will affect his being ready.

The only time reference he seems to have made is that he perceives ''soon'' to mean within the next five years. That clearly doesn''t gel with your hoped-for time frame if you want to be married prior to having a child by 30. So, the ball is in your court. You need to give serious thought to whether you''re okay with compromising your optimal timeline to better meet his.

If you aren''t willing to wait five years, I think you need to have a calm, rational discussion with him to say ''We''ve spent three years together, so I feel like we know each other well enough to know if we want to make this relationship permanent. I''m ready for marriage and children, and I know I want to share those things with you. I want to ask you to take the next six months to consider if you want those same things too, and if you want them with me. If we aren''t both ready at the same time, I think we need to acknowledge that we''re just not there and make a change.''

Agreed.

He''s shared with you that he might not be ready for another 5 years. it might NOT be that long, but it might be. All he knows at this point is that he''s not ready right now and it sounds like he''s sort of tired of hashing it out (by saying he doesn''t want to have any more "wedding" or "baby" talks), so it sounds like the resentment is creeping in on both sides.

I do think it''s a good idea to have another conversation about it. Not a tense conversation, but a relaxed conversatioin over a nice dinner. Maybe you could go to one of your favorite restaurants (sometimes being in public helps the conversation from getting too emotoinal) or if you''d prefer to stay at home, just make a nice dinner. Then tell him that you love him and that you can''t wait to spend the rest of your life with him, but that you want to make sure it''s what both of you want and maybe get into what''s holding him back. If he respects that you want to have children within the next 3 years, then he will work with you. If he''s just not ready, doesn''t want to work with you and holds to his 5-year timeline, then you probably have your answer. I think that he''s been honest with you about not being ready up until now, so in many ways the ball is in your court.

Don''t propose. The proposal is for the wrong reason: it''s to get an answer. If he says "no", you''d need to leave the relationship immediately. You can find out if he''s ready or not by having a conversation with him and then decide whether or not to stay or go without putting yourself in such an uncomfortable situation.

 

[KCCutie]

I have to agree with everyone else who said sit down and have a rational non-emotional conversation about this. It''s obvious he''s not ready right now b/c he doesn''t even want to talk about it, but that doesn''t mean he won''t be ready this year....you''ll never know if you don''t talk about it.

My SO so kinda the "Oh, yeah I see us married.....someday" guy too. He would often say things like "I''m not in a hurry to get married" and early in the relationship I agreed, but in a hurry means something totally different in guy talk than girl talk. When we had our first talk I told him I wasn''t "in a hurry" I didn''t have to have it NOW but that I couldn''t wait forever (at the time I was 30). In my mind I had decided if he said he needed a year I would be okay with that b/c I love him so much and I do want to spen my life with him, but I knew that if I had to start over at 31 I''d be devastated. You need to decide for yourself how much time you are willing to give him to figure this out, and don''t feel you need to share this with him, this is just for you. Give him a good idea of your time line and give him reasons why....like "I really want to start having kids when I''m 30 so I can be a young mom" Not just "I want kids soon."

Maybe it''s b/c I just turned 31 but I also agree with the other poster who said it''s not then end of the world if you wait until 31 to have kids....I know you had a goal and it''s really hard to let these go sometimes. I had the same goal, but I knew that my SO was "The One" I met him when I was 29 and I decided I loved him so much I couldn''t push him to reach my goal (that would have been silly). If your SO is "The One" you may have to adjust your goals a little. Marriage is about compromise, just remember the idea of a compromise is to make everyone happy so don''t agree to anything that doesn''t make you happy.

> I''m sorry you have to go through this but I''m glad you found LIW! This is a great place for support and advice! Welcome!

 

[lliang_chi]

Upsidedown, I totally sympathize with you and I really hope your conversation with your BF goes well.

Now I don''t want to open the flood gates or anything, but I guess I just wanted to vent one of the my view of the whole LIW frustration. I TOTALLY agree with you ladies who said upsidedown needs to speak to her BF and they need to have a *real* conversation without jokes, coyness, and minimal emotional reactions (that''s a toughie). And he needs to be CLEAR to her what his perspective is on their relationship & future.

Playing devil''s advocate here, what in 5 yrs is going to change that will make him ready? He''s 31, so it''s not that he''s still really young. He''s got his life, career, routine established. And he''s got this lovely lady, whom he obviously cares about, that wants to spend the rest of her life with him. Aside from time passing and everyone getting older, what else is going to happen? Yeah, he might get a new job, she might get a new job, they might hit the lotto, they might get a new pet, etc etc. But yeah, those are all "mights". What WILL happen? They get older. Getting older = being ready? To some extent, yes, (especially for the younger couples who still need to establish career etc). But when you get to around our age, all that "getting established" is done. So what does having time pass accomplish? *end vent*

Again everyone I agree and I hope Upsidedown can have a good healthy dialog with her BF about how she feels. And don''t take him being an Aries for an answer. You know how you feel so you''re the expert on "you".

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 5/15/2008 10:12:15 AM
Author: lliang_chi

Playing devil''s advocate here, what in 5 yrs is going to change that will make him ready? He''s 31, so it''s not that he''s still really young. He''s got his life, career, routine established. And he''s got this lovely lady, whom he obviously cares about, that wants to spend the rest of her life with him. Aside from time passing and everyone getting older, what else is going to happen? Yeah, he might get a new job, she might get a new job, they might hit the lotto, they might get a new pet, etc etc. But yeah, those are all ''mights''. What WILL happen? They get older. Getting older = being ready? To some extent, yes, (especially for the younger couples who still need to establish career etc). But when you get to around our age, all that ''getting established'' is done. So what does having time pass accomplish? *end vent*

Well, if he said he''ll be ready in five years, then I''d say one of the things that will change in five years is he''ll FEEL ready.
Feeling "ready" isn''t necessarily event-dependent.

Men are different from women, so what drives them to readiness is quite different.

Speaking generally (which may not apply to all women, but certainly is the rule), women are focused on marriage and family far earlier than men. In their teenage years, girls are already dreaming of what their wedding day will be like and how many children they want to have and envisioning what they think their lives will be like. Women are *anxious* to grow up and begin that. Beyond that, the biological clock issue sort of pre-determines that most women would prefer to marry by 30.

Boys don''t work the same. They don''t spend their teenage years waxing romantic on picking a wife and wondering how soon they''ll marry. Again speaking generally, men feel a huge weight of responsibility in getting married. They will be responsible for the fiscal health and physical safety of their families. They don''t have an outside force (biological clock) hastening their timelines. Most of the men I know don''t even want to think about getting married until they are at least 30.

Feeling ready for that responsibility isn''t necessary ''event driven''; it''s not as simple as checking off the boxes of "job, house, financial stability." While those are important to most men, completing them doesn''t automatically make a person ready. Saying "well, he has a career, serious relationship, financial stability, so what else is gonna happen to make him ready?" is not accepting that people aren''t ready until they FEEL ready.

 

[Haven]

Have a talk with him. I wrote a very similar post (probably about a year ago) and vented all my frustrations because I had been with my then BF for nearly three years and I was ready for marriage. We had had several small conversations about marriage prior to my post, but I hadn''t engaged him in a serious discussion about my real wants and needs. The ladies on this board gave me great advice, we had an adult conversation about it, he told me he felt the same way and had no idea that I was frustrated, and then we started looking for rings and he propsed in September. We had just been reading each other wrong, and as soon as we communicated directly about it, it was great. (We''re 27 (me) and 38 (FI) now, by the way.)

Now, if your BF really isn''t ready then you need to decide if you''re willing to wait. I have a friend who stayed with her BF for four years (she''s 37 now) only to realize that he just wasn''t going to want marriage any time soon. She left him not too long ago, and that was a really tough choice for her because she stayed in the relationship for so long.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 5/14/2008 8:16:50 PM
Author: purrfectpear
You''ve lived together for 2 years. He''s just not that into you. He has zero motivation to take the next step because HE already HAS what he wants. A steady relationship. What he doesn''t want is kids, marriage, or to even talk about the subject.

You don''t really need us to spell this out. You already know what''s going on. You just hate the thought that you''ve invested 2 years.

Ask yourself...wanna waste another 2

I''m really sorry he''s like that but you deserve better. Your responsiblity was to tell him what your expectations were. You''ve done that. His responsibility was to tell you if he agreed and to give you a timeline. He hasn''t really even been that honest there. So far the only timeline is ''maybe in 5 years''.

Personally I wouldn''t be hoping, waiting, or convincing myself that just one more day would be the ''special day''. Hugs to you though.

Ditto everything in this post. Additionally, men who want to get married and have kids do NOT mind talking about those topics. In fact, they would be the ones initiating the conversation. This guy is not going to propose on your birthday, do not kid yourself. I think you should "shake things up" as you put it. That is your best bet right now. Hugs.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 5/14/2008 9:32:58 PM


That last sentence is exactly what the problem is and what makes me think that PurrfectPear might actually be right in her assessment. Even if he weren't ready because of personal circumstances, at 30 he should be mature enough to at least discuss the subject rationally rather than being 'coy' and reducing the OP to tears. That's just not right.

Ditto. Seriously. If this guy is so mature and wise, and he wants marriage, why can't he talk to OP like a grown up about it? Either he's got a reason, and just isn't mature enough to share it. Or.

He's not that into her.

Seriously. Girl, here's what I would tell any friend of mine to do:


1) Schedule a quiet time with him to talk. Then don't say "Why won't you marry me?" or "When are we getting engaged?" Instead, you should ask him "What is holding you up?" try to create a space where he can talk openly about his fears or whatnot, without interupting him or trying to make him feel like X or Y is not really a problem.

Frankly, if he doesn't feel like he can talk to you about what's troubling him, then either he's not a good guy to be married to, or else he doesn't want to hurt your feelings or rock the comfy boat, but he has no intention of marrying you... at least not freely.

Sometimes, a guy has a rational hold up. Sometimes, a guy doesn't. Don't guess whether he does or not. Ask. You MUST be able to talk openly and rationally about such things if you're going to have a good marriage anyway.

2) If he can't give you a respectful, reasonable, honest answer that makes sense to you about what the hold-up is (and be honest with YOURSELF about whether it is), then make yourself a quiet internal deadline. If he hasn't proposed by then, and you really want marriage and kids, it is time to LEAVE!


If he is so wise and mature, then I'd put my money on him not having any intention to marry you, without being forced to do so. Otherwise, he'd have told you what his worry is already.

Hate to say it, but that's my 2 cts.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 5/15/2008 12:13:25 PM
Author: Haven
Have a talk with him. I wrote a very similar post (probably about a year ago) and vented all my frustrations because I had been with my then BF for nearly three years and I was ready for marriage. We had had several small conversations about marriage prior to my post, but I hadn't engaged him in a serious discussion about my real wants and needs. The ladies on this board gave me great advice, we had an adult conversation about it, he told me he felt the same way and had no idea that I was frustrated, and then we started looking for rings and he propsed in September. We had just been reading each other wrong, and as soon as we communicated directly about it, it was great. (We're 27 (me) and 38 (FI) now, by the way.)


Now, if your BF really isn't ready then you need to decide if you're willing to wait. I have a friend who stayed with her BF for four years (she's 37 now) only to realize that he just wasn't going to want marriage any time soon. She left him not too long ago, and that was a really tough choice for her because she stayed in the relationship for so long.

Yes, I remember Haven's case so well. It was the perfect model of how a grown-up (aka, her FI) deals with "The Conversation". Haven is lucky to have such a wonderful guy!

And in my experience also, a man who wants a wife and kids isn't afraid to talk about it. He WANTS to talk about it. Unless he's not sure that the woman he's with is the woman he wants as his wife. This is true of all my friends' husbands, and all my male friends. Either he talks about his fears if he's scared, or he talks about his excitement if he's ready.

 

[HollyS]

I don't mean to be a fuddy-duddy. And I don't want to seem -- I don't know -- judgemental. But, doesn't anyone out there on this forum understand something very basic to human nature??? Women want to nest; women want to nurture; women want to mate. MEN DO NOT. Not initially. Not without some kicking and screaming and a little push/pull/drag/shove action besides. So why do 90% of the young women on this forum live with a guy who wasn't a BF very long before you started cohabitating??

Most men say yes to cohabitating because they need to feel nurtured, and they know you love doing it. And certainly, they think sex will be more plentiful. Marriage is NOT on their minds. Most women say yes because they think "My foot is in the door. It won't be long before we're married." You could not be more wrong. Your relationship isn't different from the norm. And the norm is that most of these relationships won't last beyond a few years.

Cohabitating in itself is not the problem. The expectation of where your cohabitating will lead you is the problem.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 5/15/2008 7:21:26 PM
Author: HollyS

Cohabitating in itself is not the problem. The expectation of where your cohabitating will lead you is the problem.

Ah, this couldn''t be more true.