Imposter gemstones

[Harriet]

Date: 10/14/2009 3:49:43 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Hey Harriet, I knew you would chime in immediately.

Too bad I can''t rename my thread, but what the heck, this topic is fun to discuss.

Tourmalines are often called ''imposter'' gems because they come in such a wide variety of colors, so that''s where I came up with the name.

But of course. I do collect gems, you know.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/15/2009 9:57:02 AM
Author: morecarats
There are knowledgeable people, such as Campbell Bridges (RIP), who have argued that tsavorite garnet has superior gemstone characteristics when compared to emerald -- much better brilliance, better durability for everyday wear, less maintenance (no oiling), more suitable for different cutting styles, and is completely untreated as well.


While it's true that Bridges had some skin in the game -- he discovered tsavorite and had his own tsavorite mines -- his arguments deserve serious consideration. Few people who know gemstones well would say that the the color of tsavorite is very similar to emerald (tsavorite tends to have more of a yellow secondary while fine emerald has more of a blue), the color of tsavorite is undoubtedly appealing. If we still had a usuable concept of 'precious gem,' tsavorite would deserve the title, much more than heated brown zoisite (aka tanzanite).


It is hard to make similar arguments for other cases discussed in this thread. Red spinel is attractive because it has become nearly impossible to find an untreated ruby of good color at an affordable price, and spinel is a high quality stone in its own right. But gems like apatite and iolite are distinctly minor-league stones ...

Morecarats, please don't think I am being rude, I'm just inquisitive, are you a professional? You seem remarkably well informed for a consumer. Care to share a little?

OK, I have just read your post in another thread and it is clear that you are in the profession. I wonder why you hide behind morecarats, most of the professionals (if not all) post under their real names. Curious.

May I just add, that Campbell Bridges and his family was known personally to some members of this board and was a treasured friend. While your comments are not disrespectful about him, they are a tad a little flippant in regard to his endeavours. You were not to know this, of course. Perhaps if you mention him again you would bear that in mind.

Submitted respectfully by

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 10/15/2009 3:03:33 AM
Author: ma re
About those iolites, they sure are nice examples, but they do lack that obvious, strong purple component usually seen in good tanzanites - so yes LD, I agree you could fool people who''re not into gems with them, but not really someone who''s into them.

P. S. Blue topaz vs. aqua is an interesting topic - close enough R. I., both DR, very similar color...really tough to tell apart by simple observation.

That''s interesting because I''ve yet to see an Aqua IRL that had the color I like, and my Blue Topaz is the very light one. I think the B&M stores are selling very washed out Aquas.

 

[T L]

Are there any other green gems that come close to fine emerald in color, other than tsavorite? I know there''s chrome tourmaline, but I haven''t seen a specimen fine enough to compete with a nice deep chrome green emerald with a blue secondary.

Although many people regard tsavorite as a substitute for the fine emerald they always wanted to own, tsavorite is admired in of itself for many collectors because some people truly dislike all the inclusions in emeralds. I know some people truly dislike the yellow secondary in tsavorite though, and it''s very difficult to find some with more of a blue secondary that holds this color in most light sources. For me, a fine chrome green tsavorite with a blue secondary, which is totally clean, must be a fine sight to behold (I''ve only seen them in photographs).

For me, chrome diopside, another green gem, is a bit too glass like and bottle green in comparison to a fine emerald. Others feel free to disagree.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/15/2009 4:13:20 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Are there any other green gems that come close to fine emerald in color, other than tsavorite? I know there''s chrome tourmaline, but I haven''t seen a specimen fine enough to compete with a nice deep chrome green emerald with a blue secondary.

Although many people regard tsavorite as a substitute for the fine emerald they always wanted to own, tsavorite is admired in of itself for many collectors because some people truly dislike all the inclusions in emeralds. I know some people truly dislike the yellow secondary in tsavorite though, and it''s very difficult to find some with more of a blue secondary that holds this color in most light sources. For me, a fine chrome green tsavorite with a blue secondary, which is totally clean, must be a fine sight to behold (I''ve only seen them in photographs).

For me, chrome diopside, another green gem, is a bit too glass like and bottle green in comparison to a fine emerald. Others feel free to disagree.

I have seen something very emerald like - just yesterday and I can''t for the life of me remember what it was or where. I''ll search again.

I have both emeralds and now a tsavorite (looks more blue than yellow) and even to my relatively un-trained eye they are significantly different. Mind you, until PS, I didn''t even know what tsavorite was, so I can understand why some people think that they are emeralds.

 

[Harriet]

Back to the imposter question...In my salad days, I considered getting an apatite to temporarily satiate my desire for a Paraiba. I''m glad I didn''t. However long it takes, I''ll wait for a gem of a Paraiba.

 

[Harriet]

TL,

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you''ve never seen, let alone handled, a top Tsavorite? Didn''t you just liken somebody''s stone (I forget whose) to a fine emerald? I''d be wary of making comparisons on the basis of images alone. Green is one tough colour to photograph to boot. If you''re ever on the East Coast, there''s a beautiful 12+ ct Tsavorite at the Smithsonian.

 

[ma re]

Call me crazy but I think some more greenish paraibas look more like emeralds than most tsavorites - due to the glow and often less than perfect clarity. Especially those set in yellow gold, which brings out the green even more.

 

[sparkles]

TL can always come and play with my museum worthy Tsavorite, albeit a little smaller than 12cts...

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/16/2009 10:24:05 AM
Author: sparkles
TL can always come and play with my museum worthy Tsavorite, albeit a little smaller than 12cts...

Wow, you have a 12ct tsavorite? Have I missed that somewhere along the line Sparkles? Have you posted pictures of it?

Edited: Well that will teach me not to read PS before I've had some morning coffee!! OK I missed the tad smaller comment! Still I want to see it - please.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/15/2009 11:07:50 PM
Author: Harriet
TL,

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you've never seen, let alone handled, a top Tsavorite? Didn't you just liken somebody's stone (I forget whose) to a fine emerald? I'd be wary of making comparisons on the basis of images alone. Green is one tough colour to photograph to boot. If you're ever on the East Coast, there's a beautiful 12+ ct Tsavorite at the Smithsonian.

I have seen many tsavorites in my lifetime of collecting gems over the last 15 or so years, as to whether any of them were top quality, I'm not aware. However many of them were fine quality after discussions with gem dealers and from my own observations. I am not a tsavorite expert, nor claim to be, but I do think the "photograph" of the tsavorite in question looked like a fine emerald. IRL - yes they could be totally different. I did send a picture of that tsavorite to a gem dealer that specializes in African stones, since I was toying with buying a tsavorite (admittedly tsavorite is not one of my favorite gems, but I loved this photograph of that one). He also agreed that this color "in the photograph" appeared to look like a vivid color and reminicent of a fine emerald. He also went on to say that this particular color is extremely rare in tsavorite, more than many would care to admit. He had many expensive tsavorites of fine quality, but none of that color, although he had seen that color on rare occassion.

My favorite green gemstone by far is emerald, and I have yet to see a tsavorite that compares to the velvetly glow of a fine green emerald. The "photograph" of that tsavorite was the first "photograph" I had seen of any depiction of a tsavorite (in photos or IRL) that came close. I think that's why I'm not a tsavorite fan because I have not seen those that compare visually to top quality Columbian emeralds. I just always compare the two in my head, and I probably shouldn't, but that's just how I am. I also do the same thing with red family spinels and Burma ruby.

As for other tsavorites in photos that look more yellow or not a true emerald green, I do realize that green is difficult to photograph, but that one photograph was the first one I saw that had the blue secondary and the velvety emerald green color that I love. This is not to say that the stones in the less favorable photos to my eye are not top quality. They very well could be IRL, but the photos did not show the color I am enamored with.

 

[Gailey]

Golly, what did I miss. Which was the stone you and Harriet are referring to TL? Can you post a link so I can get up to date. I seem to be missing so much here. Either that or the old memory has gone AWOL on me again.

The one thing I think we would all agree on is that green is notriously difficult to photograph. That''s one of the reasons I haven''t posted any of my greenstones. I have tsavorite, emerald and peridot. Not one of them looks remotely true in my photographs. Massive difference in the way emeralds look side by side too. Canuk-Gal has the most amazing emeralds in a gold cross and they are far superior to mine.

And I have to re-iterate, before PS I didn''t know what tsavorite was, so I am sure there are boat loads of folks out there who are equally as un-enlightened.

I''d like to know who else has tsavorite and emeralds in their collection and what they think about the differences.

I''m on track for a new camera and it looks like it will be the new Cannon dslr. I''m also going to get a dedicated macro lens, as I am so frustrated with this whole photo thing. Once I''ve got it I will have a green photoshoot.

 

[sparkles]

TL,

Fair comments. Each to their own, thats what makes up the rich tapestry of life - everyone is uniquely different. More loot for those of us who love spinels and Tsavorites. The equivalent quality in ruby and emerald would cost a kings ransom leaving little moula left over for the matching earrings or necklace. LOL

Not that I have gone down that road - YET!

Gailey the stone was purchased some time ago. Its in the process of a 2nd reset,(long story - naughty rushed workmanship) thus haven''t posted it.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/16/2009 10:54:55 AM
Author: Gailey
Golly, what did I miss. Which was the stone you and Harriet are referring to TL? Can you post a link so I can get up to date. I seem to be missing so much here. Either that or the old memory has gone AWOL on me again.

The one thing I think we would all agree on is that green is notriously difficult to photograph. That's one of the reasons I haven't posted any of my greenstones. I have tsavorite, emerald and peridot. Not one of them looks remotely true in my photographs. Massive difference in the way emeralds look side by side too. Canuk-Gal has the most amazing emeralds in a gold cross and they are far superior to mine.

And I have to re-iterate, before PS I didn't know what tsavorite was, so I am sure there are boat loads of folks out there who are equally as un-enlightened.

I'd like to know who else has tsavorite and emeralds in their collection and what they think about the differences.

I'm on track for a new camera and it looks like it will be the new Cannon dslr. I'm also going to get a dedicated macro lens, as I am so frustrated with this whole photo thing. Once I've got it I will have a green photoshoot.

A picture would be best Gailey. Now I will emphasize again that these are photos, but since this is a forum, photos are the best visual representation we have. These two may not look anything similar IRL.

On the left, one of the photos of this tsavorite that I'm enamored with, on the right, a 4 carat AGL certified untreated Columbian emerald ring worth 90K. There's another great photo up close of this tsavorite from the vendor, but I can't find it, and I think that photo even comes closer.

http://www.rauantiques.com/item/4-33-Carat-Colombian-Emerald-Ring.29-0469.html?sort=score+desc%2CPrice+desc&facet.query=Price%3A%5b0+TO+5000.00%5d&start=0&q=*%3A*&activeNav=jewelry&fq=PRI_CAT%3AWEB.JEWELRY&rows=99999&follownutch=no

 

[T L]

Date: 10/16/2009 11:03:58 AM
Author: sparkles
TL,

Fair comments. Each to their own, thats what makes up the rich tapestry of life - everyone is uniquely different. More loot for those of us who love spinels and Tsavorites. The equivalent quality in ruby and emerald would cost a kings ransom leaving little moula left over for the matching earrings or necklace. LOL

Not that I have gone down that road - YET!

Gailey the stone was purchased some time ago. Its in the process of a 2nd reset,(long story - naughty rushed workmanship) thus haven''t posted it.

I agree, and that''s why I think this thread is relevant (your highlighted statement)

 

[Harriet]

TL,
If that''s what you consider a fine emerald, so be it.

This thread asks that we compare the incommensurable. So, folks, which is it -- apples or oranges?

 

[Gailey]

That''s Chrono''s tsavorite isn''t it? I think I remember commenting at the time it looked like an emerald in the photo.

Hey Chrono, do you think your tsavorite looks like an emerald?

The one thing I think about both of those photos is this: The fingers have a strange bluish cast to them and the Rau emerald looks way too good to be true. I can''t help wondering if either photo has not had a little help.

I think the most realistic comments about the whole tsav/emerald thing are going to come from people who can actually put one of each into the same hand at the same time and just tell us what they see.

I also think that the most important piece of advice to anyone considering purchasing any green stone is to rely on a photograph for colour representation even less for green stones than you do for any other colour. Make sure there''s a good return policy just in case the green you get is not the green you wanted or thought you were getting.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/16/2009 11:34:18 AM
Author: Gailey
That''s Chrono''s tsavorite isn''t it? I think I remember commenting at the time it looked like an emerald in the photo.

Hey Chrono, do you think your tsavorite looks like an emerald?

The one thing I think about both of those photos is this: The fingers have a strange bluish cast to them and the Rau emerald looks way too good to be true. I can''t help wondering if either photo has not had a little help.

I think the most realistic comments about the whole tsav/emerald thing are going to come from people who can actually put one of each into the same hand at the same time and just tell us what they see.

I also think that the most important piece of advice to anyone considering purchasing any green stone is to rely on a photograph for colour representation even less for green stones than you do for any other colour. Make sure there''s a good return policy just in case the green you get is not the green you wanted or thought you were getting.

Doing that now.

 

[chrono]

Gailey,
It’s rather awkward for me to jump in right now but I’ll answer your question and leave it at that. My picture has not been photoshopped or tampered with. In fact, I have no idea how to photoshop much less have the software. Yes, my tsavorite has a blue undertone and has an emerald-like colour. In a static picture, I can understand that it might be mistaken for an emerald. However, in real life, it is distinguishable from an emerald because it isn’t satiny. The appearance in person is very lively, brilliant and sparkly. I am happy to report that the vendor’s picture from Swala is accurate.

ETA
I have put both an emerald and tsavorite on my hand at the same time. In person, they have different characteristics that are easily distinguishable to a knowledgeable consumer, and obviously to the experts. HOWEVER, these characteristics are not observable in pictures. To be fair, I believe TL was making the case for a static picture.

 

[sparkles]

TL,

I bought a Tsavorite because I didn''t want an Emerald. I love Emeralds but am a stickler for eye clean stones. I am also very hard on my hands and was looking for something I wouldn''t have to baby. I didn''t buy a Tsavorite to imitate an Emerald. They are two different beasts and wouldn''t expect to pass one off for the other. I actually ended up dropping more $$ on my Tsavorite than the Emeralds I was originally looking at. I would actually rather finish my Tsavorite purchases of earrings and pendant and try to come in under 90k than spend that on 1 Emerald.

Futhermore, I can walk into 3 jewellery stores here and purchase an Emerald quite easily - now a Tsavorite, I probably couldn''t find 1.

 

[sparkles]

Chrono,

Yep thats another reason Tsavorite won out......I''m a crow and can never leave the high RI club. Maybe I should have bought a 6ct green diamond - I would be minus a kidney now....LOL

 

[Art Nouveau]

In all the talk about green stones that look like emeralds, no one has mentioned imperial jade. Certain types of imperial jade from the now extinct old mine can be very translucent and come close to emerald color. The difference is the color of the emerald green imperial jade is more pure green and lacks the blue under tone of fine Columbian emeralds. It will be very hard to see this type of jade in this country, but if you look at Sotheby''s and Christie''s old auction catalogs of jade auctions in Hong Kong, you will see lots of them and with price tags as high as 6 figures for a cabochon.

AN

 

[T L]

Date: 10/16/2009 11:51:09 AM
Author: sparkles
TL,

I bought a Tsavorite because I didn't want an Emerald. I love Emeralds but am a stickler for eye clean stones. I am also very hard on my hands and was looking for something I wouldn't have to baby. I didn't buy a Tsavorite to imitate an Emerald. They are two different beasts and wouldn't expect to pass one off for the other. I actually ended up dropping more $$ on my Tsavorite than the Emeralds I was originally looking at. I would actually rather finish my Tsavorite purchases of earrings and pendant and try to come in under 90k than spend that on 1 Emerald.

Futhermore, I can walk into 3 jewellery stores here and purchase an Emerald quite easily - now a Tsavorite, I probably couldn't find 1.

Sparkles,
I did mention in an earlier post in this thread that some people just simply prefer tsavorites to emeralds simply because of cleanliness or for other miscellaneous reasons. However, this thread is not about that, but about people wanting to purchase a stone because they can't afford a similar colored stone of a more expensive species. Yes, many tsavorites will be more expensive than emeralds, but when all things are equal, carat weight, color, cleanliness, no treatment, emeralds are more expensive. I bet you would be hard pressed to find a top quality emerald without treatment in many stores or online. They just simply do not exist that often, and when they do, they're in museums or Laurence Graff's showcase, or on Elizabeth Taylor.

No one here is putting down tsavorites. They have their fan base.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/16/2009 11:59:41 AM
Author: Art Nouveau
In all the talk about green stones that look like emeralds, no one has mentioned imperial jade. Certain types of imperial jade from the now extinct old mine can be very translucent and come close to emerald color. The difference is the color of the emerald green imperial jade is more pure green and lacks the blue under tone of fine Columbian emeralds. It will be very hard to see this type of jade in this country, but if you look at Sotheby's and Christie's old auction catalogs of jade auctions in Hong Kong, you will see lots of them and with price tags as high as 6 figures for a cabochon.

AN

That's very true, and I do remember a necklace of jade beads selling on auction for around a million dollars. I think it was coined, the "million dollar necklace" if I recall properly. Jade has a huge fan base. Since very fine jade is so pricey, I often wonder if people do collect it instead of having an emerald. I do think most of it is appreciated for what it is. Thanks for the suggestion AN.

 

[T L]

Here is that vendor photo of the tsavorite. Harriet, there are finer quality Columbian emeralds than the 90K one I posted above, but for the sake of comparison, that is a very nice emerald and it looks very similar to the
photograph of the tsavorite. You also tend to like darker tonality, and I like medium tonality, especially in green gems.


BTW, I think we're missing the whole point of this thread by constantly arguing about comparing tsavorites to emeralds (only two types of gems). They are not identical stones, but they are both green stones, and one can be mistaken for another. Even Richard Wise indicated this copycat phenomena between emearld and tsavorite in his book. Richard Hughes even compared the two in an article. The fact of the matter is that most gem novices would mistake a tsavorite for an emerald, and that's just a fact, but no one is saying that emeralds are better than tsavorites or vice versa or trying to put down anyones choice in gems. People love a particular gem for what it is as well. Someoene may love a tsavorite better than the finest emerald, or vice versa, and that's perfectly fine.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/16/2009 11:49:33 AM
Author: Chrono
Gailey,
It’s rather awkward for me to jump in right now but I’ll answer your question and leave it at that. My picture has not been photoshopped or tampered with. In fact, I have no idea how to photoshop much less have the software. Yes, my tsavorite has a blue undertone and has an emerald-like colour. In a static picture, I can understand that it might be mistaken for an emerald. However, in real life, it is distinguishable from an emerald because it isn’t satiny. The appearance in person is very lively, brilliant and sparkly. I am happy to report that the vendor’s picture from Swala is accurate.

ETA
I have put both an emerald and tsavorite on my hand at the same time. In person, they have different characteristics that are easily distinguishable to a knowledgeable consumer, and obviously to the experts. HOWEVER, these characteristics are not observable in pictures. To be fair, I believe TL was making the case for a static picture.

Chrono, I sincerely hope I have not offended you. I didn''t suspect for one minute you had tampered with the photo. I didn''t actually think that was your photo, I assumed it had come from Eric. I did think your tsav looked like an emerald and I also think it''s drop dead gorgeous no matter if it''s a tsavorite, an emerald or a lump of coal. I believe I expressed as much when you got it.

We all know that it''s not beyond the realm of understanding that a significant number of vendors photoshop their pictures. Some do it because they can''t accurately represent the colour they see by photography alone. Some are even happy to disclose such measures. I think this is a perfectly legitimate use of the tool. Others we know blatantly photoshop their photos to make their stones look better than they actually do. Ebay being a prime example.

I believe you are correct, TL was making the case for understandable comparisons based on photos. I also think others are trying to say that for one reason or another this is not necessarily a good thing to do as far as green stones in general and tsav/emerald in particular go.

I have just been looking at Lisa Elser''s latest release (for you actually!) and she has both a tsavorite and and emerald listed. Both I imagine were photographed somewhat similar conditions although not exact as the backgrounds differ. I have no idea whether or not either picture has received additional enhancement, but given that her husband''s photography skills are way superior to mine I thought it might be good to add both images to the debate.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/16/2009 12:56:42 PM
Author: Gailey

Date: 10/16/2009 11:49:33 AM
Author: Chrono
Gailey,
It’s rather awkward for me to jump in right now but I’ll answer your question and leave it at that. My picture has not been photoshopped or tampered with. In fact, I have no idea how to photoshop much less have the software. Yes, my tsavorite has a blue undertone and has an emerald-like colour. In a static picture, I can understand that it might be mistaken for an emerald. However, in real life, it is distinguishable from an emerald because it isn’t satiny. The appearance in person is very lively, brilliant and sparkly. I am happy to report that the vendor’s picture from Swala is accurate.

ETA
I have put both an emerald and tsavorite on my hand at the same time. In person, they have different characteristics that are easily distinguishable to a knowledgeable consumer, and obviously to the experts. HOWEVER, these characteristics are not observable in pictures. To be fair, I believe TL was making the case for a static picture.

Chrono, I sincerely hope I have not offended you. I didn''t suspect for one minute you had tampered with the photo. I didn''t actually think that was your photo, I assumed it had come from Eric. I did think your tsav looked like an emerald and I also think it''s drop dead gorgeous no matter if it''s a tsavorite, an emerald or a lump of coal. I believe I expressed as much when you got it.

We all know that it''s not beyond the realm of understanding that a significant number of vendors photoshop their pictures. Some do it because they can''t accurately represent the colour they see by photography alone. Some are even happy to disclose such measures. I think this is a perfectly legitimate use of the tool. Others we know blatantly photoshop their photos to make their stones look better than they actually do. Ebay being a prime example.

I believe you are correct, TL was making the case for understandable comparisons based on photos. I also think others are trying to say that for one reason or another this is not necessarily a good thing to do as far as green stones in general and tsav/emerald in particular go.

I have just been looking at Lisa Elser''s latest release (for you actually!) and she has both a tsavorite and and emerald listed. Both I imagine were photographed somewhat similar conditions although not exact as the backgrounds differ. I have no idea whether or not either picture has received additional enhancement, but given that her husband''s photography skills are way superior to mine I thought it might be good to add both images to the debate.

Gailey,
It''s difficult to debate these two particular stones because the one on the top defintely does NOT look emerald like in the least bit to me (a gem novice might think it is emerald like), and the one on the bottom looks very emerald like (which it is). I was comparing my two photos, albeit from different vendors, because the stones do look so similar colorwise (not 100%, but close), and Chrono vouches for the color being close to the vendor photo. I''m not sure how accurate the representation is on the ring, but I''ve seen emeralds that look close to that color.

The fact of the matter is that tsavorites do come in so many saturations and tones that to take a random one and compare it to an emerald is not really fair IMHO. I tried to find two images that looked close in comparison. I actually own a tsavorite myself ( a pear I bought around 14 years ago), and I would never compare it to some Muzo emeralds I own. However, in rare instances, based on Chrono''s image and what she has stated about the reality of color in the image, I do think tsavorites exist that do have a more "emerald-like" color. That being said, I think most people (gem novices) would still think that''s Lisa Elser''s tsavorite is still an emerald.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 10/14/2009 1:28:50 PM
Author: Harriet
Emeralds and tsavorites are simply incommensurable. If anyone thinks that a gemmy tsavorite is inexpensive, try pricing one.

amen to that!

mz

 

[chrono]

Gailey,
I am not the type who is easily offended and I understand where you are coming from. No worries. Of course, it doesn’t help that my hairy fingers can easily be mistaken for a man’s. Does anyone shave their finger hair right before a hand shot?

Thanks for the additional pictures. While both stones are lovely, the examples you have shown are starkly different for many reasons. Among them:
Tsavorite: No blue undertone, or if any, very little
Emerald: Very strong blue undertone which I doubt any tsavorite will ever achieve.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 10/16/2009 12:31:02 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Here is that vendor photo of the tsavorite. Harriet, there are finer quality Columbian emeralds than the 90K one I posted above, but for the sake of comparison, that is a very nice emerald and it looks very similar to the
photograph of the tsavorite. You also tend to like darker tonality, and I like medium tonality, especially in green gems.


BTW, I think we''re missing the whole point of this thread by constantly arguing about comparing tsavorites to emeralds (only two types of gems). They are not identical stones, but they are both green stones, and one can be mistaken for another. Even Richard Wise indicated this copycat phenomena between emearld and tsavorite in his book. Richard Hughes even compared the two in an article. The fact of the matter is that most gem novices would mistake a tsavorite for an emerald, and that''s just a fact, but no one is saying that emeralds are better than tsavorites or vice versa or trying to put down anyones choice in gems. People love a particular gem for what it is as well. Someoene may love a tsavorite better than the finest emerald, or vice versa, and that''s perfectly fine.

TL, with respect, I''m not sure you can have it both ways. You started the whole tsavorite/emerald comparison:

Emeralds and tsavorites are a good example. Emeralds in the quality of a comparable tsavorite with that clarity and with a deep chrome green with bue undertone are exhorbitantly expensive.

You seem determined to have the last word, which is perhaps your prerogative in this case as you started the thread. However, as you also mentioned in Boom''s thread recently:

Perhaps this thread has gone off on that tangent, but many threads such as these do.

And with that Gailey has had her last word on the whole emerald/tsavorite debate.