Improve with a re-cut? And is it worth it?

[Lookinagain]

As I mentioned up thread, I would recut. Even if I couldn't get a super ideal out of it, if it can be improved, it would be worth it to me. I would just ask that it be cut to the best proportions that are feasible. It doesn't have to be perfect. Lots of us have diamonds that are not within all of the preferred parameters, but they are pretty stones nonetheless.

 

[lovedogs]

I would definitely recut

 

[Inked]

I also would re-cut and you can always do some kind of halo or 3 stone with it to amp up the size, although I understand maybe not wanting to throw more money into a setting after the re-cut. I used southwest that Kim recommended and was super happy with my results

 

[Dreamer_D]

Listen, as far as the money goes for projects like this, even with the risk, I always think about it like this: The reward of pursuing the project isn’t just in the final product, it’s also in the journey. This project will provide you with literally months of entertainment and education. So it’s totally worth it, even if things don’t turn out like you hope.

 

[LilAlex]

This project will provide you with literally months of entertainment and education. So it’s totally worth it, even if things don’t turn out like you hope.

I'm on a slippery slope, aren't I? It would be nice to have one well-cut diamond some day!

Learning about sapphires was pretty abstract (and getting a little boring) until I had to pick one and put some money on the line!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The thrill and the agony is part of the draw.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think its time for you to look for a second job at the mall. A well cut diamonds is worth the extra effort. What does it matter if you have more important credentials behind your name. As Dreamer said the thrill and the agony are worth it.

Annette
Dreamer-its nice to see you back.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Wasn't there an Elvis song..."a little less conversation, a little more action please"....

cheers--Sharon

 

[LilAlex]

"a little less conversation, a little more action please"

Wait. Twelve days (!) have elapsed since I started this thread! Pretty sure that's not a PS record for indecision. I've seen quite a few "circling back after raising my kids" interrupted threads.

Tbh, I am halfway there since I bought a roll of water-activated tape that I will need for registered mail because BGD does not provide "in-bound" shipping labels for stuff they did not sell. (I guess that makes sense because i could be sending an empty box.)

Plus...

I think its time for you to look for a second job at the mall...

...I've been super-busy with now my second job at the mall. Not even sure how @smitcompton knew about my first job there but I guess I have that kinda vibe.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

You are a very smart man. You have no travel time between jobs.

Annette

When I was about 11 or 12, boys sometimes pushed me in the bushes. It hurt. Then they would tell me they liked me.
So if we poke fun at you and occasionally throw you under the bus, metaphorically speaking, you'll know this is what revenge looks like by the over 50 crowd of women. Remember, we like you.

 

[canuk-gal]

Hi,

You are a very smart man. You have no travel time between jobs.

Annette

When I was about 11 or 12, boys sometimes pushed me in the bushes. It hurt. Then they would tell me they liked me.
So if we poke fun at you and occasionally throw you under the bus, metaphorically speaking, you'll know this is what revenge looks like by the over 50 crowd of women. Remember, we like you.

Yes Annette, you are very smart also. We certainly do like the OP.

 

[LilAlex]

Wasn't there an Elvis song..."a little less conversation, a little more action please"

OK, after a too-long USPS journey which sent it to the opposite coast (?!) before its Houston destination, Brian Gavin immediately worked up a model that seems like a nice balance of weight retention and performance.

I asked if they would let me share their virtual images but in the meantime here are the numbers from @Garry H (Cut Nut)'s HCA.

It will go from 2.014ct -> 1.727ct or a 14% reduction in weight (an appealing < 0.3ct delta), and the diameter goes from 8.38 -> 7.81mm or a nearly 0.7mm drop and a 13% decrease in face-up area. (The depth stays nearly the same so there is a disproportionate impact on the face-up size-- but it remains "biggish.")

BEFORE:


AFTER:


BEFORE:

AFTER:


I really like this option. I know I was unable to provide the angles initially since it had a GIA from like 1980 so no one was able to hazard too educated a guess.

And if I do it, which I am likely to, should I get the new GIA report and inscription...? I am not planning to sell it.

 

[sledge]

Congrats @LilAlex on taking this next step to at least understand your options!

One thing I noticed in the HCA data is the symmetry stated as “good” in both before & after scenarios. Has BGD indicated they cannot provide H&A symmetry or perhaps this was just a typographical error?

In regards to your question about the lab report I would definitely get a new one. GIA + the AGS light performance addendum. Also I would want BGD to provide full advanced images (ASET, idealscope and hearts). The reasoning is simple. You are making a major change to the stone and I feel it should be properly documented. Also whatever heir receives the stone eventually will likely appreciate this data. I’d also want to insure the stone properly in case of loss or theft and be able to replace with like kind. All this helps prove the caliber of stone.

Also as memory recalls there is an option to brand the stone as a BGD “royalty”. This makes you eligible to participate in their upgrade program. I believe this is a separate cost/option but it also seemed low dollars overall. Since you don’t plan to trade then it may have limited value other than branding for insurance purposes.

I know costs are a driver for most folks. Can you share some ballpark figures to proceed with the cut process? And also the costs if you were to cancel after the evaluation? This may help others as they consider a similar option.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Remind us, what is the color and clarity of this diamond?

Yes you need a new lab report. You need it for interest sake (AGS cut grade would be fun) and for insurance to prove like kind and quality (though a very detailed appraisal can also accomplish this but will cost the same as the report anyway). And you never know what the future holds. One good thing about large natural diamonds like this is the ability to sell them for a good chunk of change if needed IMO. Not retail value but still nothing to sneeze at. Recently I was at my local pawn shop (high end lol they also consign) and I overheard them telling a client that they could not take the diamond as trade without some documentation that it was natural because lab grown are so common now. I thought this was very interesting and certainly not something I would have heard five years ago. Documenting the diamond as natural seems important for future value.

Anyway, get the report.

 

[Dreamer_D]

On another note 8.38 is hella spready for a 2.01 No wonder if wasn’t performing as desired! You would likely notice this change in face up size. But a well cut 1.7 carat Diamond is still nice and large. One of the benefits of a large ideal cut diamond beyond covetability and rarity, and I suppose status , is that the virtual facets are so much more apparent than in smaller diamonds. So the light play is much more interesting to observe. I own an old cut diamond not too much larger than the recut estimate and have owned a BGD MRB about that size back in the mists of time, and in both cases the size is/was more than big enough the fully appreciate the faceting. So the loss in size isn’t so terrible (though an 8.4mm is pretty awesome, too bad the cut sucks).

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I can't wait to see the before and after pics!!!!

cheers--Sharon

 

[LilAlex]

Ok, they (kindly) suggested that I not share the "after" images since they are just an approximation and not a promise, etc.

But these are the "before" data in case anyone wants to hate on it. I'm impressed that their ASET image is so different from my very amateur one upthread. Maybe it's also virtual?

But a well cut 1.7 carat Diamond is still nice and large. One of the benefits of a large ideal cut diamond beyond covetability and rarity, and I suppose status

"Status" size is sort of radioactive for my wife -- so the re-cut works on that level! (Will I get banned for saying that?)

I know costs are a driver for most folks. Can you share some ballpark figures to proceed with the cut process?

Good question -- I did not ask about cancellation costs, mostly because I pretty much planned to proceed.

Pricing is similar to what others tossed around -- about $500+ per ct for this size, plus an extra 500+ for GIA + laser (and, I assume, all the bells and whistles but I will need to confirm that part). I know this would not be the lowest bid but a few hundred dollars difference for the re-cut, expressed as a function of stone value, does not really move the needle for me. And I feel that I am in good hands.

Also as memory recalls there is an option to brand the stone as a BGD “royalty”.

I need to speak with them in person (maybe tomorrow) but I don't think this one is as good as it gets. I think that it leans the way I would (with my discerning but not curatorial eye) -- maximizing weight retention while still achieving an excellent but not perfect outcome.

Remind us, what is the color and clarity of this diamond?

J / VS2. I was cautioned by another expert that it could be more stringently graded now than it was ~ 1980 -- but also that it really was not a risky move to re-grade since no one would trust that ancient "no-angles" GIA report anyway. Maybe they yellow with age like old books...

 

[Dreamer_D]

It’s going to be awesome.

 

[sledge]

Thank you for sharing the additional information. I am super stoked for you and can’t wait to see and hear your description of the transformation. Did they give an approximate time window?

FYI I agree that a few hundred bucks is non-meaningful on something like this. You want to stay with where you feel most comfortable and that has the most experience.

No one has a reason to hate on your stone. I do find it interesting BGD’s measurements showed a 64.8 table opposed to the 66 table on the lab report. Also I noticed BGD had more variance in girdle thickness than the lab report. Perhaps technology has improved since the original report that provided more accurate dimensions.

In regards to this last ASET, they may be more experienced at taking images but I don’t think that is your existing stone. Look at the table reflection sizes. I noticed the HCA data for the new stone showed around a 57 table and that looks about right for the table reflection on this new ASET. Also the arrow lengths and thickness is very different. And the culet (tiny white spot in center of your ASET) is missing in the new one. Also the color of the table reflection changed. It went from red to green. The HCA data shows proposed pavilion of 40.7 whereas your original stone was 41.7. Around 40.76 is the dividing line between the reflection showing red (light return 45-75 degree) or green (light return 0-45 degree). Assuming the pavilion ends up 40.7 it would be green in the ASET view.

Looking at the virtual diamond image you see it also looks more inline with your ASET you shared upstream with larger table reflection, etc.

Or maybe I misunderstood you and you are saying that is a proposed ASET of the new stone.







Additional reference info on table reflection angles and colors:

 

[LilAlex]

In regards to this last ASET, they may be more experienced at taking images but I don’t think that is your existing stone.

Oh sheesh you are right! I uploaded the "after" one by mistake. This is the before (my actual stone) -- and the H&A. They were out of order in my downloads. Good call! I guess it's not miles different from my ASET image after all -- more green/less blue. (MY background was not black.)

You got an (unintended) peek at the best guess for the "after" up above.

I see -- so a crazy-small delta in the pavilion angle tips the center from red to green and "my" future-state 40.7 means green.

 

[Karl_K]

.3ct loss is better than I expected.
That's kewl!
That's also why I always say nothing is for sure until its evaluated.
For a stone of this value I would get the report for insurance reasons.
Depending on price, I would probably pass on the AGS add on if I wanted to save a few bucks and get the cheapest paper report option.

 

[Karl_K]

Hmm it looks like the AGS add on is only $25 so at the price I would get it.

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Lab_FeeSchedule_DtoZ_EN_USD_2023_0405.pdf

 

[Serg]

Oh sheesh you are right! I uploaded the "after" one by mistake. This is the before (my actual stone) -- and the H&A. They were out of order in my downloads. Good call! I guess it's not miles different from my ASET image after all -- more green/less blue. (MY background was not black.)

You got an (unintended) peek at the best guess for the "after" up above.

I see -- so a crazy-small delta in the pavilion angle tips the center from red to green and "my" future-state 40.7 means green.

re:This is the before (my actual stone) -- and the H&A.

Hi,
Do you have 3D model of real scan?

 

[LilAlex]

Do you have 3D model of real scan?

I don't.

Hoping to talk with them tomorrow or next day but fully expect to hit "Go." My questions would be along the lines of: 1) how good is this predicted result (sub-ideal, ideal, [clearly not super-ideal]); 2) how reliable is the "after" prediction model (usually spot-on vs.pretty wide variance and this is an "average" of possible outcomes, etc.); 3) what's included in the GIA/inscription package; 4) what is the risk I am assuming with this proposed re-cut model (distribution of outcomes -- like: 9 out of 10 will be perfect but 1 out of 10 will explode in a devastating fireball, etc. -- that kinda stuff)

 

[LilAlex]

Well, I'm off and running. Got my questions answered and I guess I asked one too many because Emily said she'd try to reach one of the cutters for me and I ended up speaking with Brian himself for a few min. He was great and super-helpful and reassured me that I could expect an excellent outcome and that the biggest wildcard would be the polish (no guarantee of an "X") until they started cutting and learned the orientation of the crystal. He said a super-high priority for him was ensuring that it did not drop below 1.7 ct -- and that aligns with my thinking.

So I guess I will check back in here in 6 - 8 weeks...

Thanks, all, for your advice and patience!

 

[sledge]

Thank you for sharing your journey this far. I have enjoyed the read and I think others have too. Also we know there will be a recut in someone’s future so this thread can serve as a great future resource as well.

With my last statement in mind, do you care to share the responses that Brian and his team shared with you regarding all your questions?

I think you will see a big improvement in performance. Have you already done so or can you ask BGD and his team to do a fire and brilliance video of your existing stone using their video setup so you have a comparison for when the stone is complete? I assume they will do videos for you, similar to how they do so for their stones listed on their site.

A second thing to consider. If they do the videos then I would also ask they provide you a downloadable format so you can archive for years to come.

 

[MMtwo]

Thanks for posting your journey, this is exciting to watch.

 

[Wink]

I know this would not be the lowest bid but a few hundred dollars difference for the re-cut, expressed as a function of stone value, does not really move the needle for me. And I feel that I am in good hands.

It is nice to see someone realizing the reality of the benefits of dealing with a known vendor. Price should never be the only consideration.

 

[LilAlex]

With my last statement in mind, do you care to share the responses that Brian and his team shared with you regarding all your questions?

I don't have any videos.

Their SA must have had a slightly-too-stringent script for an amateur like me and I think only committed to "an improvement" and that threw me for a loop a little -- whereas Brian expressed fairly high confidence that we'd achieve what he modeled (IIRC) but stopped short of a promise and explained why. I did not keep him on the phone long. The whole call was maybe 5 - 10 min or less. I had a tiny gap in my work schedule to make this call and I'm not really the "I'm sorry, he's on another line with his diamond cutter" workplace persona. I just sought reinforcement of the "I'm in good hands" feeling and that was all I needed.

 

[RMOO]

I've been watching this tread, and I will comment here so I will get notification when you come back with the results. Can't wait to see it!!