shape
carat
color
clarity

Improve with a re-cut? And is it worth it?

Following up here for the outcome. Just got this back from Brian Gavin and it looks great! I think it's an excellent outcome and am curious what others think. Terrific experience with Brian -- we ended up chatting briefly once or twice when I was on the fence and needed some hand-holding. The process was not fast -- but a lot of the hold-up was on my end.

Recall that this had been a 2.01 overly-flat/spready J-color VS2 with a 40+ year-old GIA report that pre-dated angles.

I was forewarned by many that I could get a harsher GIA grading than that of nearly a half-century ago. Brian further cautioned me that he was balancing weight retention vs. excellence of cut and that he could not guarantee XXX because the ability to achieve X for polish depended upon the crystal orientation and he could not know that until the cutting started. And it ended up that that was not attainable. (I was not familiar with anisotropy in diamond hardness.)

This was the BEFORE state:

Old GIA grading - 1.png

These were the proportions of the stone in its BEFORE state that Brian and his team determined and then used for planning (these were the data that were missing from the ancient GIA report):

Screen Shot 2023-10-24 at 8.37.08 PM.png

And this is from the AFTER GIA report:

Went from 2.01 to 1.69 cts (a hair below my goal of keeping it at 1.7, but still a modest loss of 0.32 cts) and the clarity grade dipped from VS2 to SI1 (with no change in the GIA mapping of the flaws when I compare visually). Unexpectedly (and happily), the color improved three grades to G (!). And he achieved X for cut and symmetry.

GIA grading results - 2.png
GIA proportions - 3.png
GIA finish and symmetry - 4.png

New GIA proportions diagram - 5.png



And these are BGD's actual ASET and H&A images -- these are not "virtual" simulations:


BGD ASET - 9.png

BGD hearts - 10.png


And these are the results when I enter the new specs into the HCA:


HCA score - 11.png

HCA looks like - 12.png
HCA interp - 13.png

HCA possible cut grades - 14.png

So it looks like this falls where we had hoped. Fun process, great outcome, not a ton of money, and only a little nerve-wracking.

Curious to hear what folks think. I'm delighted with the outcome! (And I have no idea what to do with it yet.) "Mind-cleanliness" aside, I may have "made money" on this because of the much better color grade -- which is more impactful vis-a-vis pricing than the VS2 -> SI1. And I was already warned that no modern buyer would accept that ancient VS2 so it would have needed a new report and would have ended up with a SI1 grade even without the re-cut.

Any thoughts...?
 

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This is so cool! Congratulations! Your diamond looks so much better! I think this is a fantastic outcome.
 
Wow, what a fabulous result! Improving by three color grades is so awesome. How about the visual performance—is it like a night and day difference?
 
Wow…it went from a J to a G?! That’s amazing.
 
I went back and opened the old aset image on a new computer tab, and then toggled back and forth between it and the BG aset. What an incredible difference! I can wait to see the real life pictures of it when you get it back. Please come back and posts photos and/or videos.
 
Hi,

Congratulations on such a wonderful outcome. A job well done.

Annette
 
A very nice outcome! I wonder if the change in color is from some change in property if the diamond itself or a result of color grading inflation over the years. Any idea?

Also you know it’s very poor manners not to post photos in a thread like this :twisted:
 
Thanks, all!

Your diamond looks so much better!
How about the visual performance—is it like a night and day difference?

Definitely better. It wasn't terrible before -- plenty bright; it was a "very good" cut grade because the crown and pavilion were seemingly pretty well matched. Seems like a lot more contrast and interest now -- but I have not spent a ton of time with it. And I really have nothing to compare it to, side-by-side!

I went back and opened the old aset image on a new computer tab, and then toggled back and forth between it and the BG aset.

Yes -- they are so different. Was expecting a @DejaWiz or @Karl_K or @sledge to come along and circle some things I may have missed...

A job well done.

Thank you! Not by me -- but thanks all the same! I did learn a lot.

It's way nicer (and bigger) and now even the color-grade equal of my wife's e-ring stone but she will never upgrade.

Wow…it went from a J to a G?! That’s amazing.
I wonder if the change in color is from some change in property if the diamond itself or a result of color grading inflation over the years. Any idea?

Good question. I had been told by others that the color grading would be more stringent now, just like the clarity grading. So I was prepared to take a hit. As I said above, it was also pointed out to me (not by Brian) that no one would buy this with the ridiculously old report so there was no real risk to the re-grading (i.e., it's gonna be what it's gonna be).

Maybe it was just dirty? :cool2: No, there was some stroke of luck there. A little color at the culet can do a lot (i.e., of good in a sapphire and, presumably, bad in a colorless diamond) but the vertical dimension was hardly affected by the re-cut (~ 0.1 mm) so not sure where the color was shed from. Clearly was not homogeneous, color-wise, since it "only" lost 16% of its mass.

Also you know it’s very poor manners not to post photos in a thread like this :twisted:

It looks like a pretty diamond! What more can I say? I'll see if I can do something this weekend, photo-wise.
 
Congrates!!!!
I love the new cut.
Smart use of the longer stars on the crown.
The clarity grade was not unexpected as when you make the diamond smaller around the same inclusions the clarity grade grade can go down if none of them were removed.

The color grade change has me weirded out.
Did Brian comment on the color grade?
 
The color grade change has me weirded out.
Did Brian comment on the color grade?

No -- I did not speak with him after the cutting and their SA just reported that he was very pleased with the result overall.

I have zero eye for color in diamonds (but am a total PITA about it in colored gems), but I will say that I did not see a clear difference between this J and the smaller F stone that I posted about from a similar vintage (and that is now becoming a pendant) when I viewed them side-by-side in every orientation and light I could think of. Since I do not have other diamonds for comparison (apart from my wife's even smaller G), I inferred that I'm not very discriminating. Yet when I take those online color-ordering things, I score 100% and I am kooky about paint colors (and can easily pick clear favorites for a room/decor among the hundred whites in the manufacturer's palette -- just did this for a condo, in fact) and about clothes that clash and when I am photo-editing with LightRoom in RAW. So it seemed weird to me that I could not tell an F from a J (?!). So maybe it wasn't really a "J" going into the re-cut -- even if it had been graded as such 45 years ago (?!). If anyone wants to do this experiment and put some J stones in a safe deposit box for 4 - 5 decades, I think that could be super-worthwhile... :cool2:
 
I have enjoyed this soap opera, and so happy with the results. I just find all these different gemstone adventures fascinating. Thanks for taking us along.
 
Smart use of the longer stars on the crown.

@Karl_K, for a an amateur like me, can you explain what you mean by this? And isn't the geometry constrained by the final proportions?
 
@Karl_K, for a an amateur like me, can you explain what you mean by this? And isn't the geometry constrained by the final proportions?

With a 34 crown longer stars mean the upper girdle facets are steeper which can improve scintillation.
longer stars = shorter and steeper upper girdle facets.
Bad thing over 35 degree crown angle, good thing 34 and under and doesn't make much of a difference in between.
 
Congratulations! We had my mother in laws Diamond recur with Brian years ago and it made a huge difference visually. It’s so worth it to have a smaller stone that actually sparkles vs a larger dead one. Enjoy!
 
I have enjoyed this soap opera, and so happy with the results.

I feel the need to set the record straight here. This is not a soap opera. This is so clearly a shaggy dog story!


Screen Shot 2023-10-28 at 10.06.34 AM.png

To wit: @Karl_K, I stumbled across some random information that the length (percentage) of the star facets affects the roundedness ("heart-ness") of the heart lobes in the H&A pattern. Apart from producing a prettier H&A pattern, is there any performance significance to a having heart-ier hearts in the H&A?
 
I feel the need to set the record straight here. This is not a soap opera. This is so clearly a shaggy dog story!


Screen Shot 2023-10-28 at 10.06.34 AM.png

To wit: @Karl_K, I stumbled across some random information that the length (percentage) of the star facets affects the roundedness ("heart-ness") of the heart lobes in the H&A pattern. Apart from producing a prettier H&A pattern, is there any performance significance to a having heart-ier hearts in the H&A?

The most effect the star% has is changing the upper girdle facets length which changes their angle.
In some combinations it can make or break the overall performance of the stone. In other combos it matters less.
Any effect on the h&a images if they exist are not important.
 
OK I finally did the right thing and cleaned it and walked around with it in forceps. Did not do this initially because there was no hurry and it was the work-week and it's not like I'm gonna send it back, etc. But it is really lovely -- and a remarkable difference! Looks great in low light and in outdoor shade it is just sensational. Looks almost "fake." Not bragging, I hope -- just don't want to leave this group with the impression that it was all a technical exercise. Even my wife was completely blown away, adding as an afterthought, "But I am sentimentally attached to mine..."

I do not know how to capture what I see -- and I'm a decent photographer. It's the kinetic effect -- the movement -- and not what I see in any static view. You diamond people know this! In colored stones, it's all about best showing the color -- so you know when you've captured the appeal.

I have two MP4s (?) from BGD if someone can tell me how to share. (I hate third-party video- and photo-hosting sites). What will jump out in those is the SI1-making crystal under the table but I can not see it without magnification no matter how hard I look. The crystal looks dark in those videos but looks clear and of a different RI under the loupe.
 
Point the phone close-up and snap a pic already!
 
HI:

How can you walk around in forceps? I'm scared. :twirl:

cheers--Sharon
 
How can you walk around in forceps? I'm scared. :twirl:

I know! And I was blindfolded and wearing oven mitts, too.

No, I had my other hand cupped under it and the forceps have a push-up "tightener" so I don't need to apply constant pressure. But they are "amateur grade" for sure and it did squirt out once when I was trying to grab it...and I wasn't over tile or cement or anything. If I drop it, how far can it go...?
 
I know! And I was blindfolded and wearing oven mitts, too.

No, I had my other hand cupped under it and the forceps have a push-up "tightener" so I don't need to apply constant pressure. But they are "amateur grade" for sure and it did squirt out once when I was trying to grab it...and I wasn't over tile or cement or anything. If I drop it, how far can it go...?

All the way! In all seriousness, I am happy you have a "new" stone.
 
Yeah you can’t capture the scintillation of diamonds with a camera. Instead, you can capture the facet patterning. Best way to do this is face a natural light source and then cup your hand over the diamond or hold is so your hand blocks the sun. Shows some dispersion and faceting best.
 
I feel the need to set the record straight here. This is not a soap opera. This is so clearly a shaggy dog story!


Screen Shot 2023-10-28 at 10.06.34 AM.png

To wit: @Karl_K, I stumbled across some random information that the length (percentage) of the star facets affects the roundedness ("heart-ness") of the heart lobes in the H&A pattern. Apart from producing a prettier H&A pattern, is there any performance significance to a having heart-ier hearts in the H&A?

I stand corrected. Shaggy dog tale it is!
 
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