Is anyone else here worried about this notion of redistribution of wealth?

[Maria D]

Date: 10/30/2008 4:11:08 PM
Author: Miranda

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen too many people rise up against great adversity and make something of themselves. Though I will agree that some people have more challenges in their way. Absolutley! The choice is to overcome those challenges...Or not. My life is a walking, talking example of that.


I was only offering my observation of donations and charities as an example. We agree that is a general statement. Did you check the donation numbers between Obama and McCain and Biden and Palin? Just curious?

This is even more off topic, but, I am constantly amazed that people living in the same country have such different opinions about things. Ah well, I guess that's what brings 'balance to the force'.

Miranda, I understood your initial "choice" post to be something along the line of -- hey you can choose to be a corporate finance person (and get paid like one) instead of a (fill-in-blank); who told you to choose the lower paying job? I actually agree with that sentiment if it's assumed we're talking about people who *do* have a choice (which is how I took Miranda's remark).

In my own experience, I decided to major in Chemical Eng'g as an undergrad because I was good at math and science and I wanted to make money. I had a choice that not everyone has -- and not because I didn't have to overcome some adversity but because most people suck at math and science. After graduating with my BSChE I found I didn't really enjoy engineering (despite the fact that in my early 20s I was making more money than I knew what to do with) so I got an MBA. Worked at corporate marketing for a while, made a bunch of money, got taxed at a high rate with no mortgage tax deductions (was living in Canada at the time) and loved every minute of it. Now I am a high school math teacher. I'm working harder than I ever have in my life and getting the least amount of pay. I'm not complaining about the pay, I chose this. But I do feel that my pay should be taxed at a lower rate than my fellow chemical engineers and marketing managers because they are making tons more money and can still afford to live *well*, even with the higher tax rate. We're all working hard, but I get paid less -- it's as simple as that.

So, those hard working wealthy earners can make their own choice -- become a social worker and pay less tax! Or quitcherbitchin'

 

[Maria D]

Date: 10/30/2008 4:47:57 PM
Author: luckystar112

But, he's working on his master's, has a beautiful wife, and a great job. We had to make a choice, and that choice was to further our education and prove ourselves. We joke all the time about how we should have ended up. He's very liberal, btw, but he's of the mentality that if he can do it, anyone can.

My point is that you can work hard, get your master's, work even harder, and still never end up in the "wealthy" income tax bracket. Does this mean that no one should become a teacher, nurse, social worker? And there's nothing wrong with becoming a hard-working tradesperson. The wealthy corporate financiers need Joe the Mechanic, Plumber, Electrician. And Joe and his family need access to healthcare...

Then there's my rich real life friend Joe the Saab/Porsche Dealer, with multiple dealerships. He is well into the highest income category but still needs the average Joe's to buy his cars. Lots of his customers aren't making $250K a year and if they have to pay $$$$ for heat, food, fuel, healthcare, and more than their fair share of taxes they're not going to have it for the Saab.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/30/2008 3:44:35 PM
Author: rob09

Date: 10/30/2008 3:09:01 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
and...don''t get me started on the amount of taxpayers dollars we spent on illegal aliens and their kids.

Yeah - pry 0.000001% of the taxpayer dollars we have spent on Iraq. But I digress. Let''s all win by kicking those kids out of the country. But please don''t send them back by plane. With those ticket prices nowadays that would really be criminal. And make sure they get at least a few scars from that border fence.

i rather see our $$$''s go towards educating our kids then their''s.

 

[HollyS]

stone_seeker: I don''t want to plow through 152 replies to see what others say; I''m sure I''ll disagree with a number of them. But to answer your original question . . . Is Anyone Else Worried About Redistribution of Wealth? . . . . everyone ought to be. And yes, I''m plenty peeved about it, even though I have nada, zilch, zero in the way of ''wealth''. Mr. Obama will not make my life easier (me being the middle class he wants to save ), but he will cause my employer to seek ways to cut his expenses, to include dispensing with the 401K contributions. There goes any semblance of wealth I might have aspired to. He better be sending me a super huge ''Tax Credit'' to make up for it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/30/2008 6:47:42 PM
Author: HollyS
stone_seeker: I don''t want to plow through 152 replies to see what others say; I''m sure I''ll disagree with a number of them. But to answer your original question . . . Is Anyone Else Worried About Redistribution of Wealth? . . . . everyone ought to be. And yes, I''m plenty peeved about it, even though I have nada, zilch, zero in the way of ''wealth''. Mr. Obama will not make my life easier (me being the middle class he wants to save <ha>), but he will cause my employer to seek ways to cut his expenses, to include dispensing with the 401K contributions. There goes any semblance of wealth I might have aspired to. He better be sending me a super huge ''Tax Credit'' to make up for it.

Holly
don''t about you,but he did promise me some windfall $$$''s after he becomes President. redistribution of wealth.

 

[vespergirl]

I haven''t read through all of the posts, so I''m just going to base my response on the original question. My husband and I talked about this a lot, because we fall right on the border of the tax increase - depending on what my husband''s bonus will be this year, we may fall into that tax bracket, but we won''t know for sure until after the election.

Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way "safer" - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.

Truly, the tax policies from both parties most frequently only profoundly affect the very rich and the very poor - the middle class are the ones that always end up shouldering the majority of the tax burden, plus or minus a few bucks depending who gets elected.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM
Author: vespergirl
Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way ''safer'' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.

you watch...neither Obama or McCain will stop this war.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM
Author: vespergirl
I haven''t read through all of the posts, so I''m just going to base my response on the original question. My husband and I talked about this a lot, because we fall right on the border of the tax increase - depending on what my husband''s bonus will be this year, we may fall into that tax bracket, but we won''t know for sure until after the election.

Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way ''safer'' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.

Truly, the tax policies from both parties most frequently only profoundly affect the very rich and the very poor - the middle class are the ones that always end up shouldering the majority of the tax burden, plus or minus a few bucks depending who gets elected.

I really doubt anyone is paying 35% of their income in taxes, especially given the marginal tax rate system and most people have interest to deduct from a mortgage. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:49:30 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM

Author: vespergirl

I haven''t read through all of the posts, so I''m just going to base my response on the original question. My husband and I talked about this a lot, because we fall right on the border of the tax increase - depending on what my husband''s bonus will be this year, we may fall into that tax bracket, but we won''t know for sure until after the election.


Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way ''safer'' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.


Truly, the tax policies from both parties most frequently only profoundly affect the very rich and the very poor - the middle class are the ones that always end up shouldering the majority of the tax burden, plus or minus a few bucks depending who gets elected.

I really doubt anyone is paying 35% of their income in taxes, especially given the marginal tax rate system and most people have interest to deduct from a mortgage. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Agreed. Our tax rates on paper look high, but we actually have considerably lower actual tax rates (especially corporate tax rates) when you calculate it out after deductions.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/28/2008 9:49:20 PM
Author:stone_seeker
This scares me to death and for some reason it hasnt gotten much traction.

I dont know about you but I have no interest in giving more of my hard earned money to anyone else. Not only is that UNFAIR to me (I pay a tremendous amount of tax as it is), it doesnt help the recipient of those dollars in the long run. Why should someone strive to improve themselves, if they can get by on subsidies funded by others?

I''m all for improving education, infrastructure, healthcare, etc. But please dont create class wars by creating an even larger welfare class.

I almost leaned toward voting for Barack until I started really looking into his tax plan in more detail. Scary stuff....I''ve always wanted to live in Paris and I think the next 4 years might be as good a time as any.

Good luck all.

Hi,
Are you an American citizen? If so, I have bad news. The US taxes its citizens on worldwide income, even if they renounce their citizenship.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:49:30 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

I really doubt anyone is paying 35% of their income in taxes, especially given the marginal tax rate system and most people have interest to deduct from a mortgage. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

I'm Australian, about average lower-middle class household income, and feel I can only DREAM of only paying 35% tax in total! Income tax is one thing (and the income tax rates have just recently come down to 30% for most of us now), but there are so many add ons, including consumption tax, and a bunch of state taxes, especially stamp duties on housing etc. There are few tax deductions, and no tax deductions on housing costs, unfortunately.

Anyway, sorry to thread hijack! It seems that overall, the US is quite a low-tax environment...

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

We also have numerous other taxes that we pay, federal and state income tax, sales tax, hospitality and lodging tax, tax on alcohol, tax on cigarettes, capital gains tax, property tax, town utility tax, personal property tax (car), gas tax, etc etc etc.

 

[777_LDY]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:52:55 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 10/30/2008 7:49:30 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM

Author: vespergirl

I haven't read through all of the posts, so I'm just going to base my response on the original question. My husband and I talked about this a lot, because we fall right on the border of the tax increase - depending on what my husband's bonus will be this year, we may fall into that tax bracket, but we won't know for sure until after the election.


Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we're fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family's income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it's about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don't enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way 'safer' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama's tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.


Truly, the tax policies from both parties most frequently only profoundly affect the very rich and the very poor - the middle class are the ones that always end up shouldering the majority of the tax burden, plus or minus a few bucks depending who gets elected.

I really doubt anyone is paying 35% of their income in taxes, especially given the marginal tax rate system and most people have interest to deduct from a mortgage. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Agreed. Our tax rates on paper look high, but we actually have considerably lower actual tax rates (especially corporate tax rates) when you calculate it out after deductions.

We pay about 35% and because we are in the highest bracket we do not get the privilege of having many deductions.

Last year we had to pay nearly 30k on top of what was being already taken out weekly, which we thought would cover us. I guess I could understand having to give so much back if my husband made twice what he does, but when you are a young hard working family with small children and you are at the lower end of the "wealthy" class it just doesn't make sense. And like I mentioned earlier, my husband has what I would call a small business that will get hit very hard under Obama. For what is he working so hard for?

 

[swimmer]

In Europe many countries have flat taxes, some are low, like 22% and some are at 50 or 40% if you make a lower middle class salary. Check out this simplified chart link

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 10/30/2008 10:33:07 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 10/28/2008 9:49:20 PM

Author:stone_seeker

This scares me to death and for some reason it hasnt gotten much traction.


I dont know about you but I have no interest in giving more of my hard earned money to anyone else. Not only is that UNFAIR to me (I pay a tremendous amount of tax as it is), it doesnt help the recipient of those dollars in the long run. Why should someone strive to improve themselves, if they can get by on subsidies funded by others?


I''m all for improving education, infrastructure, healthcare, etc. But please dont create class wars by creating an even larger welfare class.


I almost leaned toward voting for Barack until I started really looking into his tax plan in more detail. Scary stuff....I''ve always wanted to live in Paris and I think the next 4 years might be as good a time as any.


Good luck all.

Hi,

Are you an American citizen? If so, I have bad news. The US taxes its citizens on worldwide income, even if they renounce their citizenship.

Yeah, that kinda bums me out. I don''t really like the idea of having to pay taxes both to the UK and the US when I''m only living and working in one of those countries. I understand that taxes are an evil necessity are, but it seems unfair that I have to pay whether I live there or not.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 10/31/2008 8:04:33 AM
Author: swimmer
In Europe many countries have flat taxes, some are low, like 22% and some are at 50 or 40% if you make a lower middle class salary. Check out this simplified chart link

Right above that chart, it says the factual data of the article is disputed.

 

[swimmer]

true, but in very small increments. These figures are not off by THAT much.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 10/31/2008 8:15:06 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 10/30/2008 10:33:07 PM

Author: Harriet

Date: 10/28/2008 9:49:20 PM


Author:stone_seeker


This scares me to death and for some reason it hasnt gotten much traction.



I dont know about you but I have no interest in giving more of my hard earned money to anyone else. Not only is that UNFAIR to me (I pay a tremendous amount of tax as it is), it doesnt help the recipient of those dollars in the long run. Why should someone strive to improve themselves, if they can get by on subsidies funded by others?



I''m all for improving education, infrastructure, healthcare, etc. But please dont create class wars by creating an even larger welfare class.



I almost leaned toward voting for Barack until I started really looking into his tax plan in more detail. Scary stuff....I''ve always wanted to live in Paris and I think the next 4 years might be as good a time as any.



Good luck all.

Hi,


Are you an American citizen? If so, I have bad news. The US taxes its citizens on worldwide income, even if they renounce their citizenship.

Yeah, that kinda bums me out. I don''t really like the idea of having to pay taxes both to the UK and the US when I''m only living and working in one of those countries. I understand that taxes are an evil necessity are, but it seems unfair that I have to pay whether I live there or not.

Its true. I had to report my salary to the US while while out of the country working as a tour guide earning almost nothing, so of course paid almost nothing in taxes on that measly amount. Strangely enough the next year I was in the US, I got fliers to help me get low cost heating oil and such. I had earned so little I qualified for assistance. Pretty funny. Note: I did not take it as I had gone back to earning dollars. You will have the opposite with the pound...though the UK is having some currency issues...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/31/2008 7:31:38 AM
Author: 777_LDY

We pay about 35% and because we are in the highest bracket we do not get the privilege of having many deductions.

Last year we had to pay nearly 30k on top of what was being already taken out weekly, which we thought would cover us. I guess I could understand having to give so much back if my husband made twice what he does, but when you are a young hard working family with small children and you are at the lower end of the ''wealthy'' class it just doesn''t make sense. And like I mentioned earlier, my husband has what I would call a small business that will get hit very hard under Obama. For what is he working so hard for?

No comment, just wanted to say it''s good to see you. You are missed! Hope everything is well.

* teeny threadjack over*

 

[stone_seeker]

I'm glad so many have strong opinions on this issue because it is important. This is an email I received from someone the other day:

In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 10/31/2008 9:34:30 AM
Author: stone_seeker
I''m glad so many have strong opinions on this issue because it is important. This is an email I received from someone the other day:


In a local restaurant my server had on a ''Obama 08'' tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I''ve decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

So you are rewarding people who are too lazy to work and burden us taxpayers who have to fork over money for shelters, soup kitchens, social and medical services for the uninsured? Good move. If I had been the waiter I would have gladly redistributed my excess energy to your behind. Maybe you can spend a minute to think about why a waiter would vote for Obama and not for McCain. Oooops! Same reason as you pry would vote for McCain! Taxes!!! Punishing someone who looks out for his own financial interest? That is so un-Republican. And not giving a waiter his tip because of your political beliefs? That is simply being an jerk. Hope your experiment made you feel good. I''ll feel better on election day.

 

[stone_seeker]

Rob,

You sadly miss the point. The point being a redistribution of money earned by one and given to another. Doesnt feel good when you are the one not getting the benefit. And I never said I was voting for McCain. So please direct your anger elsewhere.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 10/31/2008 9:50:35 AM
Author: stone_seeker
Rob,

You sadly miss the point. The point being a redistribution of money earned by one and given to another. Doesnt feel good when you are the one not getting the benefit. And I never said I was voting for McCain. So please direct your anger elsewhere.

Disagree. I have no problem getting more heavily taxed even at my measly income if I knew it was going to help someone who needed it. I am broke as crap as a college student, and I still wouldn''t mind helping someone less fortunate via taxation. I donate money quite frequently, also.

I don''t think stealing from servers paying their way through college was exactly what Obama had in mind. It''s awesome to see how much the originator of that email exaggerated a ridiculous point. Heaven forbid we take money from someone whose yearly bonus is more than I''ll make in a lifetime. Lets just exploit the point with using a server who barely makes any money in the first place.

Since when does the government take 100% of your income? Because that''s what not tipping would be the equivalent of.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/31/2008 8:15:06 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 10/30/2008 10:33:07 PM
Author: Harriet
Hi,

Are you an American citizen? If so, I have bad news. The US taxes its citizens on worldwide income, even if they renounce their citizenship.

Yeah, that kinda bums me out. I don''t really like the idea of having to pay taxes both to the UK and the US when I''m only living and working in one of those countries. I understand that taxes are an evil necessity are, but it seems unfair that I have to pay whether I live there or not.

Gwen,
Check whether the US and the UK have a treaty that avoids double taxation. It should be somewhere on the IRS site: www.irs.gov

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/31/2008 9:50:35 AM
Author: stone_seeker
Rob,


You sadly miss the point. The point being a redistribution of money earned by one and given to another. Doesnt feel good when you are the one not getting the benefit. And I never said I was voting for McCain. So please direct your anger elsewhere.

No, YOU sadly miss the point. Obama's tax policies are not taking money out of the pockets of those who make $2 something per hour before tips...

 

[sklingem]

Date: 10/31/2008 9:50:35 AM
Author: stone_seeker
Rob,


You sadly miss the point. The point being a redistribution of money earned by one and given to another. Doesnt feel good when you are the one not getting the benefit. And I never said I was voting for McCain. So please direct your anger elsewhere.

Oooops - just forward it to that someone who did it. I did not realize that you did not do it, I apologize.
I certainly did not miss the point - I strongly disagree (and yes - it makes me angry when people act like jerks) with THE WAY that "someone" made the point. My general argument still stands - "someone" was punishing the waiter for the fact the he he may have to pay more taxes under Obama, while the waiter would pay less taxes - though both are really looking out for their own financial interests, which you can't blame them for. That is being a jerk, no matter what your intentions were.
More importantly, the fact that this "experiment" may "teach" the waiter how taxation feels is b*shit as well. How much of an impact do you think that taxation (even if it is lower) has on the waiter's quality of life and overall living standards compared to someone who makes 500K and gets taxed at an overall rate of 35%???? Hm. "Someone" needs to study a bit more theory before resorting to practice.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 10/31/2008 10:04:38 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 10/31/2008 8:15:06 AM

Author: gwendolyn

Date: 10/30/2008 10:33:07 PM

Author: Harriet

Hi,


Are you an American citizen? If so, I have bad news. The US taxes its citizens on worldwide income, even if they renounce their citizenship.

Yeah, that kinda bums me out. I don''t really like the idea of having to pay taxes both to the UK and the US when I''m only living and working in one of those countries. I understand that taxes are an evil necessity are, but it seems unfair that I have to pay whether I live there or not.

Gwen,

Check whether the US and the UK have a treaty that avoids double taxation. It should be somewhere on the IRS site: www.irs.gov

I''m an American citizen living in Canada and we do not pay taxes in both countries -- I always thought there was legal protection against having to pay income taxes in more than one country. Anyway, in our case, we pay taxes in Canada. We''re required to file in the US, but we don''t pay anything.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:49:30 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM
Author: vespergirl
I haven''t read through all of the posts, so I''m just going to base my response on the original question. My husband and I talked about this a lot, because we fall right on the border of the tax increase - depending on what my husband''s bonus will be this year, we may fall into that tax bracket, but we won''t know for sure until after the election.

Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way ''safer'' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.

Truly, the tax policies from both parties most frequently only profoundly affect the very rich and the very poor - the middle class are the ones that always end up shouldering the majority of the tax burden, plus or minus a few bucks depending who gets elected.

I really doubt anyone is paying 35% of their income in taxes, especially given the marginal tax rate system and most people have interest to deduct from a mortgage. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Actually, we are paying about 35%. I am including our state and property taxes in the quotient. It really depends where you live.

Honestly, the candidate that I would be most excited to vote for is any one who ever gets the guts to promote the flat tax. I guess the fact that I don''t see much difference between McCain & Obama is that for the middle class (including upper-middle) our tax rates never end up changing that much, because the government gets the bulk of its cash from the middle classes. I would personally feel much better about paying a flat tax that EVERYONE (including the poor) would have to pay for the privilege of living in this country. I think that the govt. would have more $ to balance the budget, and it would reduce the animosity amongst the classes to know that everyone has to pay their fair share.

 

[stone_seeker]

Oh well. I guess I dont understand why people think its ok to "take" from one group to give to another just because they can afford it. I donate a signficiant % of my income to various charities and to be honest, those charities may end up suffering if my income is reduced through this forced mechanism. If you want to close loopholes for corporations or make people pay what they "should" pay that is one thing. To take more from people just because they can afford it and because the gov''t lacks the teeth to enforce the rules already on the books is not right in my eyes.

I was a waiter in high school and in college in order to pay for my education which enabled me to eventually get a good paying job. So I know how hard they work. But I never once felt that a couple who ordered a $500 bottle of wine (and I poured many of them) should have tipped me more because I knew they had the money to do so.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 10/30/2008 7:23:15 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 10/30/2008 7:13:29 PM
Author: vespergirl
Even though nobody wants their taxes increased, we decided that we are not starving by any means, so if we end up paying a little more so that we have better schools, health care and infrastructure, so be it, we''re fine with it. Honestly, we already pay about 35% percent of our family''s income in taxes, and in most socialist countries it''s about 45 - the difference is that even with our ludicrously high tax rates, here in the US we don''t enjoy the benefits of free secondary education or healthcare. Under Obama, we feel that we may actually see some benefits from all the taxes we pay (because there is no way that you can convince me that our military occupying Iraq makes us in any way ''safer'' - if anything, the contrary). So honestly, the only difference under Obama''s tax plan will probably be that instead of the military sucking all our tax dollars away to another country, we may actually see some of the benefits of our tax dollars in this country, for a change. Unlike McCain, who is hellbent on funding a losing occupation of Iraq ( that I NEVER supported) indefinitely.

you watch...neither Obama or McCain will stop this war.

You may have a point there - when I was watching Obama''s infomercial the other night, I did notice that he keeps saying that he would "look at ending the war" instead of just "I will end the war" (definitively).