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Is EGL that bad???

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tdiggity

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
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Hey everyone.
Looking to make THE purchase for my girl. She gave me some clues as to what she wants but I am thinking of going online to purchase the diamond and then going to pick her real band together. I think she wants that...deep down inside. Anyway, I found this one and its a really good deal. I see its certified by EGL though...is this a terrible thing? What do you all think about this one...help a brotha out!

Certificate: EGL
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.03
Color: E
Clarity: VS1

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 5.63-5.43-4
Length to Width: 1.04
Depth Percentage: 73.7 %
Table Percentage: 71 %
Girdle: -
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)

What do you all think about this diamond? Does it sounds like a great deal?
 
Is it an EGL USA cert? Because, no, EGL USA is not that bad. They are very reputable. My EGL USA cert was confirmed correct by an independent appraiser. Though, I''d watch out for other EGL certs like EGL Israel...
 
Without the price, it is difficult to determine if it is a deal or not
2.gif
 
OH! haha of course.
Its for sale for $3,921 (though I get a discount if I wire the money over).
 
1.01-1.05 "Signature Ideal" E-VS1 princesses on Blue Nile are selling for $7,852-$8,117.

Not trying to sound alarmist, but I think you might be getting "too good" of a deal. I'd probably have an independent appraiser inspect the hell out of that stone before I bought it. There's really no reason why someone would sell a 1.03 E VS1 for under $4,000. You can see here:

https://www.pricescope.com/RepRange.asp?shp=6&rng=7

that that kind of stone would cost most *dealers* more than $5,000.

In which case, I'd be very skeptical about getting one for under $4,000 (which would mean the dealer is selling it for a substantial loss, which makes no sense). I'd be very concerned that it is a fake or stolen gem.

Now, of course it very well might turn out to be legit and be the deal of the century. I'm just saying watch out because this one smells a little fishy.

Edit: Oh, I see the diamond you are talking about on uniondiamond.com. Those guys are very reputable and professional. In other words, I'm not so much worried anymore that you are being fleeced. Union's reputation is solid.

However, I'd definitely be concerned about why the price is so low compared to its GIA brothers. I would call Union Diamond and talk to Jeff Skelpa or anyone there about it. They are very friendly andd will be more than happy to answer your questions. If they say nothing is wrong with it, then you should be clear for purchase. Good luck.
 
its from a VERY reputable online jeweler...one of the larger ones.
 
"In which case, I''d be very skeptical about getting one for under $4,000 (which would mean the dealer is selling it for a substantial loss, which makes no sense). I''d be very concerned that it is a fake or stolen gem."

i wouldn''t be concerned about it being stolen, its much more likely that the grade is inflated and it really isn''t a E VS1.
 
Doing a search, I find that 3 vendors are offering it from $3767 to $3909.

I would have to have it checked with an independent appraiser to ensure I was getting what I paid for. The price does seem too good. My guess is it is not EGL USA, in which case I would absolutely pass.
 
Date: 10/31/2006 12:57:55 PM
Author: Arcam
''In which case, I''d be very skeptical about getting one for under $4,000 (which would mean the dealer is selling it for a substantial loss, which makes no sense). I''d be very concerned that it is a fake or stolen gem.''

i wouldn''t be concerned about it being stolen, its much more likely that the grade is inflated and it really isn''t a E VS1.
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A fair point. At the time I made the comment, I was under the assumption that the OP was buying the diamond from someone in real life, and not from an online vendor.
 
EGL can be a very good way to save a little money on your diamond purchase. However, they can be a grade off here and there on color and clarity, so I would suggest only purchasing EGL stones from places with a good return policy. Also, I would get it checked out by an independent appraiser to make sure the diamond matches the cert.
 
I talked with a lady at the vendor. They have a full 30 day refund policy.

She said its not EGL-USA though...she did say that this is an immacualte diamond and even if it is of a grade or so on the color its still a F or G. She said if I looked around for a GIA stone of F, VS2 (assuming they WERE off a grade on each) I would be hardpressed to find a deal like this. Do you all agree?

She told me she isn''t interested in pushing one stone, but finding one I''ll like...she things this is a very well cut stone. she prefers to sell GIA because of the peace of mind. She is now emailing me the certification.

anyway, any more thoughts??
 
It''s hard to tell how good of a cut it is from those numbers alone. It''s slightly off-square, not sure if this bothers you. A picture and an ideal scope image would really help.

Or...since they have a good return policy, purchase, get it checked out by a pricescope recommended appraiser (in resources tab), and be opened minded about what they might say.
 
Date: 10/31/2006 12:09:22 PM
Author:tdiggity
Hey everyone.
Looking to make THE purchase for my girl. She gave me some clues as to what she wants but I am thinking of going online to purchase the diamond and then going to pick her real band together. I think she wants that...deep down inside. Anyway, I found this one and its a really good deal. I see its certified by EGL though...is this a terrible thing? What do you all think about this one...help a brotha out!

Certificate: EGL
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.03
Color: E
Clarity: VS1

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 5.63-5.43-4
Length to Width: 1.04
Depth Percentage: 73.7 %
Table Percentage: 71 %
Girdle: -
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)

What do you all think about this diamond? Does it sounds like a great deal?
Click to expand...
just looking at the E VS1 I might go for the EGL. I wouldn''t throw an egl out of bed, I would just expect bigger hype for the performance. Meaning if I really really wanted an eye clean stone I wouldn''t go lower than VS1 maybe even in the VVS range.... same with color... If you want a G then you might stick with no lower than E for egl. I didn''t look at your stats though, I kno nothing about princess cuts...
 
Date: 10/31/2006 1:24:37 PM
Author: tdiggity

anyway, any more thoughts??
Click to expand...
So, I have thoughts, but are they helpful...now there's a question!

I've been surprised at options reviewed over just the last several days that run in cost by a factor of 20...from $1500 to $30,000, and whose size, by simple minded standards, vary in dimensions from I think 5 millimeters to 10 millimeters, top to bottom. Hard to say how to place value. One is not sure you should squint your eyes too much, lest you begin to see the difference.

Get an idealscope (or better, an asset scope), to make an evaluation of your option, once in hand. Read here on what AGS is supposed to do for Princesses, if you dare.

Be bold, have fun, best of wishes in your search.
 
Date: 10/31/2006 12:44:44 PM
Author: Upside Down Man
1.01-1.05 ''Signature Ideal'' E-VS1 princesses on Blue Nile are selling for $7,852-$8,117.

Not trying to sound alarmist, but I think you might be getting ''too good'' of a deal. I''d probably have an independent appraiser inspect the hell out of that stone before I bought it. There''s really no reason why someone would sell a 1.03 E VS1 for under $4,000. You can see here:

https://www.pricescope.com/RepRange.asp?shp=6&rng=7

that that kind of stone would cost most *dealers* more than $5,000.

In which case, I''d be very skeptical about getting one for under $4,000 (which would mean the dealer is selling it for a substantial loss, which makes no sense). I''d be very concerned that it is a fake or stolen gem.

Now, of course it very well might turn out to be legit and be the deal of the century. I''m just saying watch out because this one smells a little fishy.

Edit: Oh, I see the diamond you are talking about on uniondiamond.com. Those guys are very reputable and professional. In other words, I''m not so much worried anymore that you are being fleeced. Union''s reputation is solid.

However, I''d definitely be concerned about why the price is so low compared to its GIA brothers. I would call Union Diamond and talk to Jeff Skelpa or anyone there about it. They are very friendly andd will be more than happy to answer your questions. If they say nothing is wrong with it, then you should be clear for purchase. Good luck.
Click to expand...
you can get raised quite the premium for the "GIA" or AGS brand of certificqtion...
 
Date: 10/31/2006 12:58:44 PM
Author: jazmine
Doing a search, I find that 3 vendors are offering it from $3767 to $3909.

I would have to have it checked with an independent appraiser to ensure I was getting what I paid for. The price does seem too good. My guess is it is not EGL USA, in which case I would absolutely pass.
Click to expand...
Why would you pass? Worst case scenario you''re getting a G SI1 and probably paying the equivalent for *that* anyway!
 
Okay then...which one would you rather have?

CHOICE A:
Certificate: GIA
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.01
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Regular Price: $4105

Diamond Proportions:
Length to Width Ratio: 1.00
Measurements: 5.4-5.38-3.97
Depth Percentage: 73.8 %
Table Percentage: 69 %
Girdle: M-XTK
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)

OR

CHOICE B:
Certificate: EGL
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.03
Color: E
Clarity: VS1
Regular Price: $3816

Diamond Proportions:
Length to Width Ratio: 1.04
Measurements: 5.63-5.43-4
Depth Percentage: 73.7 %
Table Percentage: 71 %
Girdle: -
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)
 
Date: 10/31/2006 1:53:03 PM
Author: Cehrabehra




Date: 10/31/2006 12:58:44 PM
Author: jazmine
Doing a search, I find that 3 vendors are offering it from $3767 to $3909.

I would have to have it checked with an independent appraiser to ensure I was getting what I paid for. The price does seem too good. My guess is it is not EGL USA, in which case I would absolutely pass.
Click to expand...
Why would you pass? Worst case scenario you're getting a G SI1 and probably paying the equivalent for *that* anyway!
Click to expand...
I don't like the idea of buying a diamond that is claimed to be something it is not. Even though the diamond is more afforable than others with GIA certs, I don't like the idea of buying a diamond certified by a lab that is not accurate or truthful. I am of the opinion that the nicest diamonds are sent to GIA or AGS to be certified. So that is what I like to stick with.

But that is just one person's opinion. I would not say that someone looking to save some money should never consider an EGL diamond. But I would always have it appraised to find out if I was overpaying.
 
Date: 10/31/2006 12:35:19 PM
Author: tdiggity
OH! haha of course.
Its for sale for $3,921 (though I get a discount if I wire the money over).
Click to expand...
That puts it approximately 45% below rap, so yes, either the cert or the cutting is really bad. That price is below the wholesale that a jeweler would pay for such a stone were it well cut and really an E-VS1.

Wink
 
Date: 10/31/2006 4:33:27 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 10/31/2006 12:35:19 PM
Author: tdiggity
OH! haha of course.
Its for sale for $3,921 (though I get a discount if I wire the money over).
Click to expand...
That puts it approximately 45% below rap, so yes, either the cert or the cutting is really bad. That price is below the wholesale that a jeweler would pay for such a stone were it well cut and really an E-VS1.

Wink
Click to expand...
That''s sort of the point I was making earlier. It''s so far below Rap (and even dealer''s wholesale) that the whole thing is enough to smell fishy to me.
 
Date: 10/31/2006 1:04:15 PM
Author: kcoursolle
EGL can be a very good way to save a little money on your diamond purchase. However, they can be a grade off here and there on color and clarity,
Click to expand...
Or to paraphrase someone when talking about the budget a few years ago;

A color grade here, a clarity grade here, and pretty soon we''re talking about a real lack of value...

Wink

(The actual quote was something like A hundred billion here, a hundred billion there and pretty soon you are talkng about some real money.)
 
Date: 10/31/2006 1:24:37 PM
Author: tdiggity


She said its not EGL-USA though...she did say that this is an immacualte diamond and even if it is of a grade or so on the color its still a F or G. She said if I looked around for a GIA stone of F, VS2 (assuming they WERE off a grade on each) I would be hardpressed to find a deal like this. Do you all agree?



anyway, any more thoughts??
Click to expand...
Since EGL Israel and EGL Europe tend to be off two or more color and/or clarity grades, go find out what you can get a nice G-SI1 or H-SI2 for. I completely fail to understand why people buy unreliablecerts when they know they are unreliable. Telling you that they are likely only a grade off should make you run for the door faster than a scalded cat, but even then they are flat out sugar coating it. If you end up buying it I recommend you have it papered by a real lab to see just what it was you actually got. Chances are pretty good you will have gotten exactly what you paid for and not a dime''s worth of bargain.

Wink, who seems to be in somewhat of a cranky mood today.
 
wow...thanks for all the feedback. I am still a newb in my opinion so I am learning. I had never known about the difference in certs before today. I thought i had uncovered the ultimate gem! haha

I am moving on from this one and leaving for someone else to roll the dice. Honestly I just want something my wonderful girlfriend will love and adore as much as she does ME! :-)
 
"Chances are pretty good you will have gotten exactly what you paid for and not a dime''s worth of bargain." - Wink


I thought this was remarkably well put. Fits nicely into the "if it seems too good to be true, then it is" category.
 
edit.. oh its a princess.. nm
 
Date: 10/31/2006 5:40:58 PM
Author: tdiggity Honestly I just want something my wonderful girlfriend will love and adore as much as she does ME! :-)
Click to expand...

Now THAT is a healthy attitude!

Wink
 
Date: 10/31/2006 5:44:25 PM
Author: Upside Down Man
''Chances are pretty good you will have gotten exactly what you paid for and not a dime''s worth of bargain.'' - Wink


I thought this was remarkably well put. Fits nicely into the ''if it seems too good to be true, then it is'' category.
Click to expand...

Yes. I wish it was just a case of the GIA and AGS paper getting a premium, but the reason they get the premium is that they are likely to be spot on rather than one, two, or three spots off, and YOU get to spin the wheel and take your chances. In reality, they are not getting a premium, you are just paying for what you are actually getting.

Wink
 
Date: 10/31/2006 2:21:36 PM
Author: tdiggity
Okay then...which one would you rather have?

CHOICE A:
Certificate: GIA
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.01
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Regular Price: $4105

Diamond Proportions:
Length to Width Ratio: 1.00
Measurements: 5.4-5.38-3.97
Depth Percentage: 73.8 %
Table Percentage: 69 %
Girdle: M-XTK
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)

OR

CHOICE B:
Certificate: EGL
Shape: Princess
Cut: Select Ideal™
Carat: 1.03
Color: E
Clarity: VS1
Regular Price: $3816

Diamond Proportions:
Length to Width Ratio: 1.04
Measurements: 5.63-5.43-4
Depth Percentage: 73.7 %
Table Percentage: 71 %
Girdle: -
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)
Click to expand...
I''d definitely choose A...at least it''s square and has a reliable cert. But does your search have to be limited to these two? I''d be looking for a princess with an AGS0 certificate if you want to be assured of getting an excellent stone.
 
Okay, my thoughts.

Most Union Diamond stones are not in house, including their Select stones. I was under the impression that the description I was initially getting of stones was because the person I was dealing with was looking directly at the stone. I purchased a round H SI2 with an EGL report (turned out to be EGL Israel, but at the time I did not realize that there was a difference - I took the tutorial on pricescope to be egl v. ags and gia as opposed to specifically egl usa vs. ags and gia). They have the stone shipped to them before they ship it to you. I think their initial report to you about the cut, color, eyecleanliness, etc is actually based on something that they have written on a database that they go to look at.

Also of note, they do not have access to a sarin or ogi (to try to get angles on the egl stone).

At the time, I was told the stone was ''spectacular''. I was told it was eye clean, and that for color to expect ''a solid I''. I could have lived with that - one color off and eyeclean would still have been acceptable for the price. What I received was indeed a stone that was well cut, but that was by no means eye clean, and was a J color. I knew something didn''t look right when I opened up the package indoors, and the stone just did not look right (turned out it was the inclusions). It came accompanied by Union Diamonds own written report by a GG that it was an H SI2.

When I took it to the independent appraiser (who used to be a grader for GIA and is fully credentialed as an appraiser), it was off by two colors AND two clarities. It was worth an enormous amount less (I am talking thousands and thousands) than we paid. I don''t think it would have bothered me as much if we had paid what it was worth, but we definitely overpaid. I agree with the accuracy of the independent appraisal that I paid for as he showed me the master color set, and let me look at it under a microscope (including the external pit on the pavilion)

Union was VERY good about taking the stone back and fully refunding my money. They have an excellent 30d return policy and the president of the company even contacted me after I contacted them to let them know I was returning the stone. I found every person that I dealt with at that company to be very polite and enjoyable to work with. I did tell the president that perhaps they should reconsider the vendor that sourced the stone to them, given the description being so far off, but he did stand behind the vendor as he noted they have dealt with these vendors for years. Maybe an anomaly, I don''t know, but the problem is that it happened to me, so now I am gun shy. They did not really seem to agree with the drops in grade or color that the (fully credentialed) appraiser found. Then again, maybe if I were the seller I would have trouble feeling like a stone was worth less too! My guess is that maybe they would then have to sell it at a loss, which certainly no one wants to do.

If I lived in Atlanta and could go see a stone myself in person there prior to purchase, then I would not hesitate to buy from them. The problem is that now I don''t feel like I can trust their ''eyes'' to give me an accurate description of a stone that I am buying and don''t want to spend the money for another wire and then have to spend more money to ship it with insurance back to the company if it doesn''t work out again. When you are buying on the internet, you need to be able to trust the eyes of the person you are purchasing from - even if it has a GIA or AGS report - as it has been pointed out before in other threads, not even all AGS 000 are equal. A stone can look good on paper (as this one did!), but then not so pretty in person. Hence the ''buy with your eyes'' that you hear over and over on PS.

If you don''t mind wiring the money and shipping back, again they have a great return policy, and I wouldn''t tell you not to do business with them, just be aware that you MAY need to do the wiring and mailing thing. Then again, maybe you will get lucky and love it!

I am sure the reason the EGL stone is on ''sale'' is because there is a problem with it - it is probably much lower in color/clarity than the report states, hence the reason for discount - no vendor is going to make money if they give stones away, and if they keep a stone long enough, eventually it finds a home! (and those little suckers are so small they don''t take up much storage space!)

My twenty five cents...
 
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