Is there a 'gay agenda'?

[House Cat]

Nothing to add. I just wanted to say the cartoon with the gay steamroller made me laugh out loud!

DITTO! Priceless....

I dont think there is a "gay" agenda as such, certainly no more than feminism, religious and whatever else that people want to be noticed, & accepted/treated with respect. No a huge fan of being being lectured on the subject personally. I am straight and you are gay. Whoop de do as far as I'm concerned....

There's your "whoop de do" for ya.

I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth. Don't accuse me of any actions that aren't mine. Maybe next time, you should READ THE THREAD before you type.

Once again, MY POINT is that this is a thread about a GAY AGENDA. The topic is homosexuality. This isn't the time or the place to say you don't care about someone being gay. If you want to say that, start your own darned thread...but have respect for this one.

The civil rights of gay people is a very serious issue. Have some class.

 

[arkieb1]

Hi Kenny, one of my best friends at school recently came out last year to his parents, he is now in his early 40s and I have known he was gay since we went to school together. He left them a lot of clues along the way but his parents did not want to see them.... There was tremendous pressure from his family to get married have kids and be what everyone else expected him to be.

I have know a number of both men and women that do either have a family because that was the expected thing for them to do or because they wanted a family and what family life has to offer over any other life that finally did when the children were older or grown up admit to themselves and others they were gay.

I also know a few women who are openly bi-sexual one in particular told me that she likes all the colours of the rainbow so to speak and at this point in time is happy with that although she has been in relationships that were with both men and with women (forced to choose a side on the continuum). She once said to me that she doesn't fit in with the straights and gets bashed by gay women for not being more gay so it must be equally difficult if you don't conform or fit neatly into the expectations of either group.

 

[Niel]

Nothing to add. I just wanted to say the cartoon with the gay steamroller made me laugh out loud!

DITTO! Priceless....

I dont think there is a "gay" agenda as such, certainly no more than feminism, religious and whatever else that people want to be noticed, & accepted/treated with respect. No a huge fan of being being lectured on the subject personally. I am straight and you are gay. Whoop de do as far as I'm concerned....

There's your "whoop de do" for ya.

I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth. Don't accuse me of any actions that aren't mine. Maybe next time, you should READ THE THREAD before you type.

Once again, MY POINT is that this is a thread about a GAY AGENDA. The topic is homosexuality. This isn't the time or the place to say you don't care about someone being gay. If you want to say that, start your own darned thread...but have respect for this one.

The civil rights of gay people is a very serious issue. Have some class.

She is saying she respects all sexual orientation equally. She was trying to be respectful of equality in her own way. I didn't want people jumping down her throat by reading it the way they want rather than the way she clearly meant. But my apologies for upsetting you. Didnt mean to make you throw so many caps locks at me. Gay rights is important.



And to your point kenny doesn't Kinsey rate your sexuality on 6 point scale?

 

[msop04]

Hi Kenny, one of my best friends at school recently came out last year to his parents, he is now in his early 40s and I have known he was gay since we went to school together. He left them a lot of clues along the way but his parents did not want to see them.... There was tremendous pressure from his family to get married have kids and be what everyone else expected him to be.

I have know a number of both men and women that do either have a family because that was the expected thing for them to do or because they wanted a family and what family life has to offer over any other life that finally did when the children were older or grown up admit to themselves and others they were gay.

I also know a few women who are openly bi-sexual one in particular told me that she likes all the colours of the rainbow so to speak and at this point in time is happy with that although she has been in relationships that were with both men and with women (forced to choose a side on the continuum). She once said to me that she doesn't fit in with the straights and gets bashed by gay women for not being more gay so it must be equally difficult if you don't conform or fit neatly into the expectations of either group.

arkie, I have a dear childhood friend who was in the exact same situation. His sexuality was obvious to everyone all his life... except to his parents. Like your friend, he left many clues, but his parents refused to acknowledge. He finally came out to them once he graduated from college and got a job -- I think he may have been worried he'd get kicked out of the house... Although that didn't happen, the family still cannot accept that he is gay. They are always trying to change him. It's sad, because he's moved away from the "small town life" and is finally happy. I just hate that his parents see this as a "fault" in him. He's a truly great guy, and a wonderful friend, so it hurts to see that part of his life (acceptance from his parents) unfulfilled.

 

[arkieb1]

msop04,

Our families also live in a small country town, and he has moved away to the city.... His mother actually cornered my mother last year and said did you know? And demanded to know why we didn't tell her, and what she thought about it.... My mother told her that it was fairly obvious when we were children together and my mother told her that although her son was different that he has always been a special & amazing guy, I wish I could remember the exact words now because at the time when she rang and told me about it, I was really proud of my mother

 

[msop04]

msop04,

Our families also live in a small country town, and he has moved away to the city.... His mother actually cornered my mother last year and said did you know? And demanded to know why we didn't tell her, and what she thought about it.... My mother told her that it was fairly obvious when we were children together and my mother told her that although her son was different that he has always been a special & amazing guy, I wish I could remember the exact words now because at the time when she rang and told me about it, I was really proud of my mother

I'm proud of your mother as well, arkie!

 

[Ella]

Everyone if you wish to keep discussing this topic please cut the insults. If you don't like a post politely refute it or ignore it but do not attack the poster.

 

[AGBF]

I am finally catching up on this thread which I had been following, then let slide for a while, and I want to make another comment. I completely agree with all the postings made by Indylady. I think they were level headed and well written. I am sorry that I was not present to say so earlier.

Deb/AGBF

 

[JaneSmith]

I think the key question is, "Do laws that give equal rights to gays violate the rights to freedom of religion when a religion teaches that homosexuality is bad?"
Can such religions be forced to abandon such teachings?
That's a slippery slope, and who's rights trump whom's?

The law permits kids to die without charging parents for murder, because they belong to religions that forbid medical procedures.

IMO these are legitimate, and very messy, legal questions.
I'm a strong defender of freedom of religion.

I know we have many religious people posting here.
I'd welcome your honest thoughts on the topic, and won't start a food fight.

This is not necessarily true - for example, receiving blood transfusions is something Jehovah's Witnesses will not allow. However, various supreme courts have ruled that in life-and-death scenarios, JW parents are not legally allowed to deny their minor child a blood transfusion. Hospitals will ask for consent, and if it is not voluntarily given, they will gather the lawyers and proceed to fight. In fact, last year in Australia, a 17-year old JW boy was denied the right to refuse HIS OWN blood transfusion on religious grounds. They said he must have it (doctors estimated his likelihood of death if not given it was 80%), and when he was 18 and a legal adult, he could then refuse treatment.

Ginger, this is actually very true.

From http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24

B. Exemptions from providing medical care for sick children

Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia have religious exemptions in their civil codes on child abuse or neglect, largely because of a federal government policy from 1974 to 1983 requiring states to pass such exemptions in order to get federal funding for child protection work. The states are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Additionally, Tennessee exempts caretakers who withhold medical care from being adjudicated as negligent if they rely instead on non-medical “remedial treatment” that is “legally recognized or legally permitted.”
Seventeen states have religious defenses to felony crimes against children: Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin
Fifteen states have religious defenses to misdemeanors: Alabama, Alaska, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, South Carolina, and South Dakota.
Florida has a religious exemption only in the civil code, but the Florida Supreme Court nevertheless held that it caused confusion about criminal liability and required overturning a felony conviction of Christian Scientists for letting their daughter die of untreated diabetes. Hermanson v. State, 604 So.2d 775 (Fla. 1992)
States with a religious defense to the most serious crimes against children include:

Idaho, Iowa, and Ohio with religious defenses to manslaughter
West Virginia with religious defenses to murder of a child and child neglect resulting in death
Arkansas with a religious defense to capital murder

Here is a recent case of parents withholding medical care for a sick child because of their religion. Note that they were not given jail time for the first dead child.

From http://6abc.com/archive/9437462/

A couple who believed in faith-healing were sentenced Wednesday to 3½ to seven years in prison in the death of a second child who never saw a doctor despite being stricken with pneumonia.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible defied a court order to get medical care for their children after their 2-year-old son, Kent, died in 2009. Instead, they tried to comfort and pray over 8-month-old Brandon last year as he, too, died of treatable pneumonia.

 

[justginger]

I think the key question is, "Do laws that give equal rights to gays violate the rights to freedom of religion when a religion teaches that homosexuality is bad?"
Can such religions be forced to abandon such teachings?
That's a slippery slope, and who's rights trump whom's?

The law permits kids to die without charging parents for murder, because they belong to religions that forbid medical procedures.

IMO these are legitimate, and very messy, legal questions.
I'm a strong defender of freedom of religion.

I know we have many religious people posting here.
I'd welcome your honest thoughts on the topic, and won't start a food fight.

This is not necessarily true - for example, receiving blood transfusions is something Jehovah's Witnesses will not allow. However, various supreme courts have ruled that in life-and-death scenarios, JW parents are not legally allowed to deny their minor child a blood transfusion. Hospitals will ask for consent, and if it is not voluntarily given, they will gather the lawyers and proceed to fight. In fact, last year in Australia, a 17-year old JW boy was denied the right to refuse HIS OWN blood transfusion on religious grounds. They said he must have it (doctors estimated his likelihood of death if not given it was 80%), and when he was 18 and a legal adult, he could then refuse treatment.

Ginger, this is actually very true.

From http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24

B. Exemptions from providing medical care for sick children

Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia have religious exemptions in their civil codes on child abuse or neglect, largely because of a federal government policy from 1974 to 1983 requiring states to pass such exemptions in order to get federal funding for child protection work. The states are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Additionally, Tennessee exempts caretakers who withhold medical care from being adjudicated as negligent if they rely instead on non-medical “remedial treatment” that is “legally recognized or legally permitted.”
Seventeen states have religious defenses to felony crimes against children: Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin
Fifteen states have religious defenses to misdemeanors: Alabama, Alaska, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, South Carolina, and South Dakota.
Florida has a religious exemption only in the civil code, but the Florida Supreme Court nevertheless held that it caused confusion about criminal liability and required overturning a felony conviction of Christian Scientists for letting their daughter die of untreated diabetes. Hermanson v. State, 604 So.2d 775 (Fla. 1992)
States with a religious defense to the most serious crimes against children include:

Idaho, Iowa, and Ohio with religious defenses to manslaughter
West Virginia with religious defenses to murder of a child and child neglect resulting in death
Arkansas with a religious defense to capital murder

Here is a recent case of parents withholding medical care for a sick child because of their religion. Note that they were not given jail time for the first dead child.

From http://6abc.com/archive/9437462/

A couple who believed in faith-healing were sentenced Wednesday to 3½ to seven years in prison in the death of a second child who never saw a doctor despite being stricken with pneumonia.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible defied a court order to get medical care for their children after their 2-year-old son, Kent, died in 2009. Instead, they tried to comfort and pray over 8-month-old Brandon last year as he, too, died of treatable pneumonia.

It appears there are only actually 5 states that allow exclusions for death of a child (manslaughter, murder, or capital murder). That's frightening enough, 1/10th of the country, but it is still a reassuring minority. The rest of the exclusions are for less serious cases, or do I not understand the terminology (like 'felony against a child' - is that something that results in death? I would have thought no, as there is a specific section for deaths as well)?

 

[Indylady]

HP came on to a thread specifically about gay issues to say that they 'don't care to be lectured about the topic'. I think that was rude, and driven by homophobia. Someone who is understanding or appreciative of LGBT struggles is unlikely to see a discussion of gay rights as a 'lecture.' There's nothing to be hypocritical about, and no reason to shy away from the word homophobia. There are many homophobic people in this country--that's why there are hate crimes, and that's why there isn't equality for LGBT people.

Key phrase: "I think..."

Jumping to conclusions and automatically becoming so hateful only stirs the pot a little more. (yes, being hateful while asking others not to hate is pretty ironic, don't you think?)

Not all people take things in such a negative light... many here have tried to reiterate the point, but to no avail. Kinda reminds me of the line, "haters gonna hate".

If you're experiencing hurt feelings from my comment, it’s valid to be upset about it and want to talk about it. It is not valid to claim that I'm hateful in the sense of the word as it applies to gay people. Gay people are subject to systemic oppression and violence--conflating my comments with the hate that gay people face is truly an injustice.

Homophobia is powerful, because the prejudice behind it is coupled with power, to create systemic oppression apparent in everyone from institutional social constructs to our legal system. Homophobia is so ingrained in our society to the point that patterns of discrimination towards gay people are institutionalized as normal. That's why you and Arkie are proud of Arkie's mom for her lack of discrimination. That is how prevalent homophobia is in our culture.

As a marginalized group, gay people and supporters of LGBT rights do not, and will not have the power (and the system of structured support) that backs homophobic people. Simply put, supporters of LGBT rights like myself, can be 'mean' of course, but they cannot perpetuate hate in the way it is perpetuated against gay people today.

LGBT rights supporters will never be able to take away legal rights from straight people--never--but straight people certainly do determine the legal standing and rights of gay people--that is the hate I'm talking about. In terms of violence, even in the Castro, probably the only few solidly gay blocks on the planet, there aren't hate crimes against straight people. But, in the rest of the world, gay people must be aware of the potential for a hate crime against them. That, also, is the hate I'm talking about. Conflating my 'meanness' with hate as it applies in a gay rights context is not analogous, and is quite unfair.

You have called me hateful a number of times. I see that you are making a play on that word; your play on the word is clear since you've even told me that it's ironic that I support LGBT rights--which fight against hatred and discrimination--because I am 'hateful'. The idea is as old as the playground--when you call me hateful for standing up for LGBT rights--I hear you say, 'I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and stick to you!' and 'I know you are but what am I?' You seem invested in making a personal attack against me, and called me rude, hypocritical, a 'hater', and hateful all in a couple posts-- that's fine. I don't have like comments for you. But, please don't undermine the real discrimination, oppression, and hate that gay people experience in your insults to me.

 

[kenny]

It's that old paradox again … should intolerance be tolerated?

I argue that not tolerating intolerance is not intolerance.
Not tolerating harming people is morality.

 

[Indylady]

I am finally catching up on this thread which I had been following, then let slide for a while, and I want to make another comment. I completely agree with all the postings made by Indylady. I think they were level headed and well written. I am sorry that I was not present to say so earlier.

Deb/AGBF

Deb, you are too kind. I really hope I get a chance to meet you in person one day

 

[laylah]

HP came on to a thread specifically about gay issues to say that they 'don't care to be lectured about the topic'. I think that was rude, and driven by homophobia. Someone who is understanding or appreciative of LGBT struggles is unlikely to see a discussion of gay rights as a 'lecture.' There's nothing to be hypocritical about, and no reason to shy away from the word homophobia. There are many homophobic people in this country--that's why there are hate crimes, and that's why there isn't equality for LGBT people.

Key phrase: "I think..."

Jumping to conclusions and automatically becoming so hateful only stirs the pot a little more. (yes, being hateful while asking others not to hate is pretty ironic, don't you think?)

Not all people take things in such a negative light... many here have tried to reiterate the point, but to no avail. Kinda reminds me of the line, "haters gonna hate".

If you're experiencing hurt feelings from my comment, it’s valid to be upset about it and want to talk about it. It is not valid to claim that I'm hateful in the sense of the word as it applies to gay people. Gay people are subject to systemic oppression and violence--conflating my comments with the hate that gay people face is truly an injustice.

Homophobia is powerful, because the prejudice behind it is coupled with power, to create systemic oppression apparent in everyone from institutional social constructs to our legal system. Homophobia is so ingrained in our society to the point that patterns of discrimination towards gay people are institutionalized as normal. That's why you and Arkie are proud of Arkie's mom for her lack of discrimination. That is how prevalent homophobia is in our culture.

As a marginalized group, gay people and supporters of LGBT rights do not, and will not have the power (and the system of structured support) that backs homophobic people. Simply put, supporters of LGBT rights like myself, can be 'mean' of course, but they cannot perpetuate hate in the way it is perpetuated against gay people today.

LGBT rights supporters will never be able to take away legal rights from straight people--never--but straight people certainly do determine the legal standing and rights of gay people--that is the hate I'm talking about. In terms of violence, even in the Castro, probably the only few solidly gay blocks on the planet, there aren't hate crimes against straight people. But, in the rest of the world, gay people must be aware of the potential for a hate crime against them. That, also, is the hate I'm talking about. Conflating my 'meanness' with hate as it applies in a gay rights context is not analogous, and is quite unfair.

You have called me hateful a number of times. I see that you are making a play on that word; your play on the word is clear since you've even told me that it's ironic that I support LGBT rights--which fight against hatred and discrimination--because I am 'hateful'. The idea is as old as the playground--when you call me hateful for standing up for LGBT rights--I hear you say, 'I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and stick to you!' and 'I know you are but what am I?' You seem invested in making a personal attack against me, and called me rude, hypocritical, a 'hater', and hateful all in a couple posts-- that's fine. I don't have like comments for you. But, please don't undermine the real discrimination, oppression, and hate that gay people experience in your insults to me.

I just want to thank you for writing. You have a wonderful gift of putting together words, words that have meaning, words that I wanted to express but couldn't.

I love reading something well written and thinking "that is exactly right, I wish I had said it". I had that moment.

 

[AGBF]

I really hope I get a chance to meet you in person one day

I assure you that the feeling is mutual, IndyLady.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I just want to thank you for writing. You have a wonderful gift of putting together words, words that have meaning, words that I wanted to express but couldn't.

I love reading something well written and thinking "that is exactly right, I wish I had said it". I had that moment.

You're no slouch yourself, laylah. Thank you for your support of those who are treating gay and lesbian rights as a serious issue.

Deb/AGBF

 

[kenny]

Thank you for your support of those who are treating gay and lesbian rights as a serious issue.

I also want to thank, from the depths of my heart, all of you here who are on what is increasingly seen as the right side of history.
Thanks to your attitudes, words, and most-importantly votes, I feel like a person released from prison after serving over 50 years for breaking an unjust law that is only now being abolished.
I only wish I was born today.

For the others, it may be frustrating holding your tongue here on PS but voting against equality in the privacy of the voting booth will make you feel better.
Unfortunately my people are at your mercy in many states and around the world.
Happily, over time today's young people today will replace you, and overwhelmingly they get that being gay is a meaningless as hair color, and no reason to deny equality.

Being gay should be whoop de doo … but we're not there yet.

 

[TooPatient]

Thank you for your support of those who are treating gay and lesbian rights as a serious issue.

I also want to thank, from the depths of my heart, all of you here who are on what is increasingly seen as the right side of history.
Thanks to your attitudes, words, and most-importantly votes, I feel like a person released from prison after serving over 50 years for breaking an unjust law that is only now being abolished.
I only wish I was born today.

For the others, it may be frustrating holding your tongue here on PS but voting against equality in the privacy of the voting booth will make you feel better.
Unfortunately my people are at your mercy in many states and around the world.
Happily, over time today's young people today will replace you, and overwhelmingly they get that being gay is a meaningless as hair color, and no reason to deny equality.

Your bolded hits it exactly!

This is exactly what we teach "A". Which is to say, I don't care if you are black/white, man/woman, Christian/Muslim, red-haired/blond, gay/straight, whatever. A person is a person. Period.

All people deserve respect as people even if you don't agree with individual opinions (Democrat/Republican, vegetarian/carnivore, etc etc) you still show respect for the person.

I do not think there is ANY group out there (no matter how you want to "group" people) that is any better than any other. EVERY group deserves an opinion and to hold the views of their choice (including sharing them with others) so long as they do so in a RESPECTFUL way (which is to say debate/discuss is good but violence/harassment is not).

I am proud to say that "A" brought home the "demographics" report from her school district and asked me why they tracked such things. She thought it was awfully racist to be counting exactly how many students were in each "group" because they are all just students so why does it matter where their family was from?

Hopefully one day (soon!) this will be the case across the board. Where people are free to be who they are and hold the opinions they choose and not be lumped into some group because of it.

 

[ksinger]

Thank you for your support of those who are treating gay and lesbian rights as a serious issue.

I also want to thank, from the depths of my heart, all of you here who are on what is increasingly seen as the right side of history.
Thanks to your attitudes, words, and most-importantly votes, I feel like a person released from prison after serving over 50 years for breaking an unjust law that is only now being abolished.
I only wish I was born today.

For the others, it may be frustrating holding your tongue here on PS but voting against equality in the privacy of the voting booth will make you feel better.
Unfortunately my people are at your mercy in many states and around the world.
Happily, over time today's young people today will replace you, and overwhelmingly they get that being gay is a meaningless as hair color, and no reason to deny equality.

Your bolded hits it exactly!

This is exactly what we teach "A". Which is to say, I don't care if you are black/white, man/woman, Christian/Muslim, red-haired/blond, gay/straight, whatever. A person is a person. Period.

All people deserve respect as people even if you don't agree with individual opinions (Democrat/Republican, vegetarian/carnivore, etc etc) you still show respect for the person.

I do not think there is ANY group out there (no matter how you want to "group" people) that is any better than any other. EVERY group deserves an opinion and to hold the views of their choice (including sharing them with others) so long as they do so in a RESPECTFUL way (which is to say debate/discuss is good but violence/harassment is not).

I am proud to say that "A" brought home the "demographics" report from her school district and asked me why they tracked such things. She thought it was awfully racist to be counting exactly how many students were in each "group" because they are all just students so why does it matter where their family was from?

Hopefully one day (soon!) this will be the case across the board. Where people are free to be who they are and hold the opinions they choose and not be lumped into some group because of it.

Just a small, somewhat tangential comment.....

Good on her for being colorblind. And good on you for fostering it. But knowing demographics IS necessary for any number of non-retrograde reasons (like being able to address the actual needs of the students in the district, because family income and environment matters a LOT), because all over this country from south to north, we are, without much fanfare considering the battles fought to undo segregation, resegregating our schools, and to great degree, de-funding them. In the south it's racial still, in the north, it's ostensibly along class lines, which means it's still pretty much along racial lines, as the majority of impoverished are still minorities. It will indeed be a better world when race is a non-issue, but we really are a long long way from that, sadly.

* end tiny step onto short soapbox *

 

[TooPatient]

Thank you for your support of those who are treating gay and lesbian rights as a serious issue.

I also want to thank, from the depths of my heart, all of you here who are on what is increasingly seen as the right side of history.
Thanks to your attitudes, words, and most-importantly votes, I feel like a person released from prison after serving over 50 years for breaking an unjust law that is only now being abolished.
I only wish I was born today.

For the others, it may be frustrating holding your tongue here on PS but voting against equality in the privacy of the voting booth will make you feel better.
Unfortunately my people are at your mercy in many states and around the world.
Happily, over time today's young people today will replace you, and overwhelmingly they get that being gay is a meaningless as hair color, and no reason to deny equality.

Your bolded hits it exactly!

This is exactly what we teach "A". Which is to say, I don't care if you are black/white, man/woman, Christian/Muslim, red-haired/blond, gay/straight, whatever. A person is a person. Period.

All people deserve respect as people even if you don't agree with individual opinions (Democrat/Republican, vegetarian/carnivore, etc etc) you still show respect for the person.

I do not think there is ANY group out there (no matter how you want to "group" people) that is any better than any other. EVERY group deserves an opinion and to hold the views of their choice (including sharing them with others) so long as they do so in a RESPECTFUL way (which is to say debate/discuss is good but violence/harassment is not).

I am proud to say that "A" brought home the "demographics" report from her school district and asked me why they tracked such things. She thought it was awfully racist to be counting exactly how many students were in each "group" because they are all just students so why does it matter where their family was from?

Hopefully one day (soon!) this will be the case across the board. Where people are free to be who they are and hold the opinions they choose and not be lumped into some group because of it.

Just a small, somewhat tangential comment.....

Good on her for being colorblind. And good on you for fostering it. But knowing demographics IS necessary for any number of non-retrograde reasons (like being able to address the actual needs of the students in the district, because family income and environment matters a LOT), because all over this country from south to north, we are, without much fanfare considering the battles fought to undo segregation, resegregating our schools, and to great degree, de-funding them. In the south it's racial still, in the north, it's ostensibly along class lines, which means it's still pretty much along racial lines, as the majority of impoverished are still minorities. It will indeed be a better world when race is a non-issue, but we really are a long long way from that, sadly.

* end tiny step onto short soapbox *

Fair point!

I did explain this to her because I know there are places where this information is needed because those divisions are still there.

In our district (especially in our city), it is hugely varied and not so much an issue here. We have everyone from people with smaller incomes in apartments all the way up to very well off families in multi-million dollar lake front homes. She is in class with kids who moved here from other countries (China, Russia, Ireland, India, and Mexico just to name a few I remember off hand) and a bunch more whose parents moved here from other countries.

It is common to see families of all sorts including divorced, re-married parents, single mothers, single fathers, two mothers, two fathers, etc.

We are exceptionally lucky to have so many different cultures interacting happily in our community! I didn't grow up with that so I know how difficult it can be in areas still struggling to get this diversity.

 

[kenny]

It will indeed be a better world when race is a non-issue, but we really are a long long way from that, sadly.

The Emancipation Proclamation was 151 years ago.
Women got the vote 94 years ago, but still don't have equality in many areas.

Even this long after those equality laws were enacted neither group's complaints today should be blown off with a, "Whoop de doo your a woman", or, "Whoop de do you're not white".

Fact is, people just like feeling superior.
IMO we are all guilty of feeling right and superior and it's something to watch out for in ourselves.
I see righteousness and superiority as the methane gas of our egos … Natural but soooo offensive.

 

[kenny]

I can't believe this is still in the news.

Hahahahaha.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/05/19/ac-ridiculist-michael-sam-kiss-dallas-tv-station.cnn.html

 

[laylah]

I hadn't seen it, thanks for posting kenny. My guess is that Amy Kushnir forgot she was being televised when she gave the two strippers a kiss. Ya think?

 

[kenny]

I hadn't seen it, thanks for posting kenny. My guess is that Amy Kushnir forgot she was being televised when she gave the two strippers a kiss. Ya think?

I don't know.

I really have nothing against those heterosexuals, as long as they stay in their big cities.
I'm all for their equality thingie, but I just wish they wouldn't shove it in our faces like that.

I just don't want to see it; shouldn't they get a room?
I mean, CHILDREN may be watching.
It's disrespectful of my beliefs for her to kiss those men on national TV.
IMO she's violating my parental rights and forcing her disgusting lifestyle down our throats.
I will tell my children about THAT lifestyle if and when I feel they are ready for it.

Of course I have nothing against those people.
Some of my best friends are straight.

 

[gregchang35]

Kenny,

YOU have STRAIGHT friends???? How can you associate with them....

I am not sure if you are allowed back into our fraternity.... you are a disgrace! The powers that be will come around to collect your badge within the week.

 

[AGBF]

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/05/19/ac-ridiculist-michael-sam-kiss-dallas-tv-station.cnn.html

Well, Anderson Cooper wins the debate against that homophobic woman (can't recall her name when I'm not looking at it) on points of logic!!! He certainly went through her "argument" step by step and decimated it!

Deb

 

[kenny]

Kenny,

YOU have STRAIGHT friends???? How can you associate with them....

I am not sure if you are allowed back into our fraternity.... you are a disgrace! The powers that be will come around to collect your badge within the week.

 

[gregchang35]

Actually Kenny, i have told them about your Octavia and that is the one that they are going to collect.... stuff the badge!

 

[chrono]

Greg,
Since I am the reason Kenny's badge is to be taken away for fraternizing with a straight friend, I volunteer to pick up the Octavia, being that I am in the US.......(and volunteer to keep it too ).

 

[kenny]

Greg,
Since I am the reason Kenny's badge is to be taken away for fraternizing with a straight friend, I volunteer to pick up the Octavia, being that I am in the US.......(and volunteer to keep it too ).

Chrono, you are so kind ... always thinking of others.