just one of those days

[mimzy]

smurfy,
i''m glad that you got the chance to talk with your friend and get some things talked out, and i''m really glad that she was understanding of you. i hope that your friend really considers the things that you talked about before indulging herself in anymore engagement thoughts.

i don''t think that you should spend too much more time defending yourself on here. there will always be people who will pick your posts apart and make assumptions, accusations, etc and there''s really nothing you can do to prevent it short of writing a book explaining yourself....and it''s just not necessary. you''re aware of your own issues and you aren''t putting yourself up for trial, so feel free to step down from the stand (not to be confused with a soapbox). don''t worry about trying to make EVERYONE understand you and your situation, etc. people will always point fingers, well intentioned or not. the best you can do is filter it and be done with it.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

thanks mimzy, that makes me feel a lot better

 

[TravelingGal]

I actually agree with Mimzy on her last post. With every post you make, you seem to be digger yourself deeper into a hole. You don''t seem to take/acknowledge advice you don''t agree with too well and only appreciate the agreements, so it makes me wonder, why bother as well?

Re: your comment on Italia''s post being "hilarious." Well, it kind of is funny because your reaction to her post pretty much answers the question of your ORIGINAL post, which was: "When I tried to explain my point of view she just got upset. Does anyone have any advice?"

Hopefully you can see why now your friend acted the way she did, and how to go about addressing her with your concerns in the future without upsetting her.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

moderatelypoostudent, I did note exactly this in one of my previous posts....

Ooh, missed that one. I daresay we have some grade A analysts here.

Smurfy,
I'm glad you had a talk with your friend and it's great to see how well you understand each other. I do think it was very sweet of her to bring the issue up with you, and I'd thank her a bunch for being so considerate.

As for the potential issues with her boyfriend, remember just to stay supportive no matter her final decision because so long as you do, at least she will have someone to turn to if things turn out poorly or someone to share with when she's happy.

And what's life without someone to share stories with?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:37:19 PM
Author: moderatelypoorstudent

moderatelypoostudent, I did note exactly this in one of my previous posts....

Ooh, missed that one. I daresay we have some grade A analysts here.

Smurfy,
I'm glad you had a talk with your friend and it's great to see how well you understand each other. I do think it was very sweet of her to bring the issue up with you, and I'd thank her a bunch for being so considerate.

As for the potential issues with her boyfriend, remember just to stay supportive no matter her final decision because so long as you do, at least she will have someone to turn to if things turn out poorly or someone to share with when she's happy.

And what's life without someone stories with?

LOL, I just realized I called you a "poostudent".

 

[mimzy]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:35:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I actually agree with Mimzy on her last post. With every post you make, you seem to be digger yourself deeper into a hole. You don''t seem to take/acknowledge advice you don''t agree with too well and only appreciate the agreements, so it makes me wonder, why bother as well?


Re: your comment on Italia''s post being ''hilarious.'' Well, it kind of is funny because your reaction to her post pretty much answers the question of your ORIGINAL post, which was: ''When I tried to explain my point of view she just got upset. Does anyone have any advice?''


Hopefully you can see why now your friend acted the way she did, and how to go about addressing her with your concerns in the future without upsetting her.

is this a first?!?!

haha

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:38:31 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/24/2008 4:37:19 PM

Author: moderatelypoorstudent

moderatelypoostudent, I did note exactly this in one of my previous posts....

Ooh, missed that one. I daresay we have some grade A analysts here.


Smurfy,

I''m glad you had a talk with your friend and it''s great to see how well you understand each other. I do think it was very sweet of her to bring the issue up with you, and I''d thank her a bunch for being so considerate.


As for the potential issues with her boyfriend, remember just to stay supportive no matter her final decision because so long as you do, at least she will have someone to turn to if things turn out poorly or someone to share with when she''s happy.


And what''s life without someone stories with?

LOL, I just realized I called you a ''poostudent''.

Lol

stool analysis coming right up.

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:29:20 PM
Author: mimzy
smurfy,
i''m glad that you got the chance to talk with your friend and get some things talked out, and i''m really glad that she was understanding of you. i hope that your friend really considers the things that you talked about before indulging herself in anymore engagement thoughts.

i don''t think that you should spend too much more time defending yourself on here. there will always be people who will pick your posts apart and make assumptions, accusations, etc and there''s really nothing you can do to prevent it short of writing a book explaining yourself....and it''s just not necessary. you''re aware of your own issues and you aren''t putting yourself up for trial, so feel free to step down from the stand (not to be confused with a soapbox). don''t worry about trying to make EVERYONE understand you and your situation, etc. people will always point fingers, well intentioned or not. the best you can do is filter it and be done with it.

I agree that she shouldn''t spend any more time here defending herself. However, I don''t think that the majority of the people who have posted on this thread (including me) are picking her posts apart, or making assumptions or accusing her of anything. We simply have been trying to help her based on the information that she has provided in her posts and she continues to get defensive when, IMHO, there really is no need to.

That said, smurfy, I am glad that you were able to talk to her and that she understood your position. I am sure that prefacing it with the fact that you were truly concerned and that your concerns had nothing to do with your jealousy helped a bit. (BTW, this was my advice in my first post, guess it was good!

) I hope that she does seek help with her situation before committing the rest of her life to this man! I am sure that having a great friend like you will certainly help her as she navigates through this. If I were you, I would stay on her about the drinking problem, as it is very easy to remain in denial, and not wake up to the real situation until it is too late!

Good luck!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:38:57 PM
Author: mimzy

Date: 2/24/2008 4:35:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I actually agree with Mimzy on her last post. With every post you make, you seem to be digger yourself deeper into a hole. You don''t seem to take/acknowledge advice you don''t agree with too well and only appreciate the agreements, so it makes me wonder, why bother as well?


Re: your comment on Italia''s post being ''hilarious.'' Well, it kind of is funny because your reaction to her post pretty much answers the question of your ORIGINAL post, which was: ''When I tried to explain my point of view she just got upset. Does anyone have any advice?''


Hopefully you can see why now your friend acted the way she did, and how to go about addressing her with your concerns in the future without upsetting her.

is this a first?!?!

haha

Nope, I have agreed with you before, but you may have fainted from the shock and not remembered it....

Of course, I am agreeing for different reasons than you posted, but basically I don''t think Smurfy has to spend more time defending herself because it just isn''t helping!

 

[FrekeChild]

You know smurfy, everything that you''ve said about your friend''s relationship has raised at least a little red flag, but two things bother me, and make me think that you really have nothing to worry about because I don''t think they''ll make it in the end unless there are some huge changes.

Thing one: The drinking. This is a HUGE Texas sized red flag to me. But it seems as though she''s still in the so-called "honeymoon" stage in their relationship, thinking that he''ll change, and frankly-she''s in denial that it''s a problem. I think I read a quote somewhere that said in a relationship you should be with someone at least 18 months before you get engaged, because a person can put on an act for a really long time, but usually by 18 months, they can''t do it anymore. If their relationship is lacking, longevity is key. The longer she''s with him, the more likely she is to see problems with his drinking, etc.

Thing two: The him not hanging out with her friends. My friends are my world, and my family. If you don''t get along with my friends, you don''t get to hang out in my world. I had this problem with an ex, none of my friends liked him one bit, and neither wanted to hang out so I was always juggling the ex or the friends. But I ignored it until I saw that they were right. This just makes me wonder, what happens when they live together (assuming they don''t) and she wants her friends to come over? Does he just go out every time? Sooner or later, he''s going to have to hang out with you guys-especially if they do get engaged. You know what I''m saying? After that ex, I realized that I needed my friends to approve of my SO-NO MATTER WHAT. Because my friends are going to be there in the end, and BFs, well odds are they aren''t going to be there for life.

I think that she needs to stop jumping the gun. I''m guessing that they''ve talked about getting engaged, or she wouldn''t have said anything, but we all know that talking about it is the first step, and the rest can take years to follow. Most girls seem to start thinking marriage at around a year, for whatever reason (I''ve done it too!) and as I''ve gotten older I''ve realized that you just don''t learn who a person is in a year. BF and I have been together 2 years in May and my friend K and her hubby T were together just over 6 months when they got married. Now, almost a year and a half since they first met, she tells me that she still learns new things about him everyday. I should probably mention that it was a bit of a shotgun wedding. I know after being with D for the time that we have been, that I''m never going to learn everything about him, but everything I know so far is pretty great.

Here''s a rule that I''ve always said I''d live by: Date for at least a year, be engaged for at least a year before marriage. And that''s a minimum.

BTW I want to add that D, my BF has approval of all my friends as well as my parents, and not only that, but has been known to hang out with them without me.

Wow. I''m long-winded today. I must be trying to avoid doing homework. Heh.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:41:37 PM
Author: hisdiamondgirl

Date: 2/24/2008 4:29:20 PM
Author: mimzy
smurfy,
i''m glad that you got the chance to talk with your friend and get some things talked out, and i''m really glad that she was understanding of you. i hope that your friend really considers the things that you talked about before indulging herself in anymore engagement thoughts.

i don''t think that you should spend too much more time defending yourself on here. there will always be people who will pick your posts apart and make assumptions, accusations, etc and there''s really nothing you can do to prevent it short of writing a book explaining yourself....and it''s just not necessary. you''re aware of your own issues and you aren''t putting yourself up for trial, so feel free to step down from the stand (not to be confused with a soapbox). don''t worry about trying to make EVERYONE understand you and your situation, etc. people will always point fingers, well intentioned or not. the best you can do is filter it and be done with it.

I agree that she shouldn''t spend any more time here defending herself. However, I don''t think that the majority of the people who have posted on this thread (including me) are picking her posts apart, or making assumptions or accusing her of anything. We simply have been trying to help her based on the information that she has provided in her posts and she continues to get defensive when, IMHO, there really is no need to.

That said, smurfy, I am glad that you were able to talk to her and that she understood your position. I am sure that prefacing it with the fact that you were truly concerned and that your concerns had nothing to do with your jealousy helped a bit. (BTW, this was my advice in my first post, guess it was good!

) I hope that she does seek help with her situation before committing the rest of her life to this man! I am sure that having a great friend like you will certainly help her as she navigates through this. If I were you, I would stay on her about the drinking problem, as it is very easy to remain in denial, and not wake up to the real situation until it is too late!

Good luck!

Yup, this where I disagree with you Mimzy...people weren''t trying to pick her posts apart to be mean, they were trying to help. Especially since she came here ASKING for it. But she didn''t get the answers she expected/wanted after the initial couple of responses.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Date: 2/24/2008 4:44:26 PM
Author: FrekeChild

BTW I want to add that D, my BF has approval of all my friends as well as my parents, and not only that, but has been known to hang out with them without me.

I just wanted to throw in that my SO hangs out with my friends without me too lol and i do the same with his

 

[FrekeChild]

Goodness, look at all that I''ve missed since I was writing a novel.

I agree that you don''t need to try to defend yourself on here anymore. It''s only frustrating you and that''s certainly not constructive.

My final words of advice: Be positive with her. Pepper everything you say with positives before the negatives. End conversations with positives. And listen to her.

And also remember this- it hasn''t happened yet. There isn''t a ring on her finger, so don''t worry about it too much until it happens. What if it never does and you''ve wasted all this time stressing over it? Not worth it IMO.

 

[mimzy]

what i meant by picking her posts apart is that people are going to comment on aspects of the original post that weren''t the main point of the OP. for example, people debating her quality as a friend for saying what she did to her friend, when she had asked for advice. and i''ll admit that it''s fair game because she typed it, and while little nuances can always make a difference, it''s just not going to do much good by diverting the attention away from the original point of the post and using it to "attack" (i use the term lightly) the poster. Also, using details from this particular post to assert that the OP isn''t mature enough for marriage are just asinine. i certainly don''t think that everyone who gave "firmer" advice is guilty of this, but it is evident on the thread, so i thought i''d say something. shrug.

this sort of thing has come up before and it will probably come up again; the debate between keeping a response to answering an OP''s original question and taking it upon oneself to critique the whole post - those that think they are doing the poster a favor by ripping them apart. i know that EVERYONE is trying to be helpful in the best way that they know how (which of course, is the right way

), and that won''t change.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

First of all, for the person that said I sounded "angry"...I don''t do angry, esspecially not on PS when it comes to someone elses problems. I am an honest person (just like you Smiley

), I share my opinions from the conclusions I''ve drawn after reading (and often re-reading) posts. Sometimes I''m wrong, sometimes I''m right...but I''m always honest about what I believe, and how I would react. I think that Smiley got some nice advice, and a few pats on the back from the wonderful woman who navigate this site...much of it was spot on, and the majority of it was said perhaps with more "spin" than I put on mine.

I hope that going forward Smiley, you can think less of yourself and see the situation from different angles, since I believe you have learned an important lesson that -- while there may be good intentions -- people can preceive words and thoughts and good intentions differently (talk about irony, huh???)

I think Smiley, you are a very rightgious person...you believe what you believe, individual situations and individual persons be damned. I hope that, with age, this quality will soften....because the world, and esspecially love, is not black and white, right or wrong, yes or no...there are shades of grey that can be appreciated when you step outside of your way of thinking.

Be kind to your friend, and be thankful that her future husband isn''t your future husband. If she is happy, then it''s important to support her and should it all fall apart, be there to pick up the pieces...it''s not your job to protect her from the world--because women have a distinct way of siding with their boyfriends over their friends, esspecially when the opinions are starkly different--and you''ll be no exception.

 

[meresal]

I seem to be doing this alot lately, and I don''t mean to side with the guy... but your friend doesn''t seem to have a huge problem with his drinking or many of these other problems you''ve brought up. Does he just drink too much for ''your'' liking or would it be an issue to most people? Is he still in college, or is he "Out in the Real World"? Does he have a job yet? There are behavior issues here, but behaviors changes with age and surroundings... just something I thought about, and some answers that could maybe clear up why she is hesitant to take the AA packet you printed up for her.

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 2/23/2008 3:40:20 PM
Author:Smurfysmiles

so I was talking to my best friend last night who has been with her boyfriend about a year. She asked if I would be upset if she got engaged before me. I told her I wouldn't be upset but I would be jealous for awhile that she got something I've been waiting for a bit longer and honestly (I think) wanting a bit more. I told her I would need time alone to get over it and then I would be fine. Then I told her I really didn't think she was ready to get engaged. Her boyfriend doesn't bother to get to know her friends and it seems like she is very secretive about him. Also, as far as I know they haven't even had their first fight yet (which I think tells a lot about how well a relationship will work). She asked why I wasn't engaged and I said we are not financially stable enough to consider it right now. Her response was that she was financially well off as is her boyfriend so why should it be a problem. Then I proceeded to tell her that's not all there is to consider. When I tried to explain my point of view she just got upset. Does anyone have any advice?

Oooh! I am coming to this late in the game but figured I'd just respond to the original post....

I can understand how you feel with being upset, because my best friend got engaged on New Year's Day 2000. At the time, I was 2 weeks away from delivering my son -- I was uber-pregnant and un-engaged and feeling crappy. And I remember thinking when she told me, "This is great! I'd really like to get drunk right now and forget this isn't happening right now....but I can't...I am pregnant and as big as a house on top of it!!!!" On one hand, I was on the fence about whether or not I even wanted to continue the relationship with my son's father, but on the other hand, it was like I had the jealous little fairy girl perching on my shoulder, stomping her foot and whining "What about MEEEEEEEEE?!!!!!" I was sensitive to a lot of things when I was pregnant, and in retrospect, an engagement ring would have made me feel tons better, even if in the end, it would not have mattered (my ex and I should have NEVER gotten married at all). It was everything I could do, when my best friend called me with her news, to say "Congratulations!" and truly mean it. I did confess to her later that I was envious -- even though I did really feel happy for her. Fortunately, my best friend has been my best friend for 14 years now and knows me really well. We can tell each other anything without it creating WW3. And unfortunately, in retrospect, I didn't have so much to be jealous over. Her husband - who looked really great on paper - ran up her bills, drained her savings and cheated on her 3 years into their marriage with a friend of ours. She divorced him and she is still having problems with him. You wouldn't believe what he still pulls on her. Don't be envious or feel bad....there could be things going on in her relationship that you wouldn't want in your own life.

Conversely, don't let anyone make you feel bad for decisions that are right for you. They don't see into your life and don't live it. If you are waiting to be financially more secure, then that's smart. Keep telling yourself that. Money is the #1 reason why couples fight, so you're smart in not getting into a situation where money could be a problem.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like your friend just wanted you to agree with her. In situations like this - where people don't want to hear the cons - it's best to just say "congrats" and leave it there.

Also, as hard as it is, friends have to let friends make their own mistakes. Mistakes are how we learn -- unfortunately, humans seem to learn best through pain. My best friend has told me frequently, since my divorce, that she thought my ex was bad news for me. But she kept her mouth shut when we were dating and after I got pregnant and once I decided to marry him --- because she felt that she had no right to intercede on what I thought was right for me. But she thought and still thinks that he's an @ss4ole. In hindsight, I'm glad she didn't say anything directly to me. I would have resented her at the time, and I wouldn't have gotten the growth experience that I did as a result of my crappy marriage and divorce.

Bridget in Connecticut.