Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive

[AprilBaby]

There is actually only one person who is having a heart attack over MMD and we all know who. The rest of us are live and let live. Find the block button and save yourself the noise.

 

[VDK1]

These are the diamonds that will suffer - they will be replaced by nice looking LGDs.
That will take away half their profits or more and result in many mine closures.

@Garry H (Cut Nut) : so you mean the B2C retail price of 1ct - 2ct diamonds will drop? Thanks!

 

[Yelena]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) : so you mean the B2C retail price of 1ct - 2ct diamonds will drop? Thanks!

I don’t think he’s saying that at all. I think he is saying that the lower quality earth mined diamonds will be replaced with better quality lab grown diamonds. Mines that produce too many lower quality diamonds will no longer be profitable. Good quality Earth mined diamonds will still be desirable.

 

[VDK1]

I don’t think he’s saying that at all. I think he is saying that the lower quality earth mined diamonds will be replaced with better quality lab grown diamonds. Mines that produce too many lower quality diamonds will no longer be profitable. Good quality Earth mined diamonds will still be desirable.

Yea, I just like to ask if the "end user price" of such 1-2 ct colorless, vvs diamonds will drop?
There are already untruthful melee diamonds in halo and pave settings that claimed "diamonds" in the market. In fact they are all lab grown!

 

[Yelena]

Yea, I just like to ask if the "end user price" of such 1-2 ct colorless, vvs diamonds will drop?
There are already untruthful melee diamonds in halo and pave settings that claimed "diamonds" in the market. In fact they are all lab grown!

Jewellers and consumers are getting wise to the melee problem. Technology will assist with this, or some consumers may choose to say yes to LGD melee and yes to earth mined larger diamond in the one ring.

 

[VDK1]

Jewellers and consumers are getting wise to the melee problem. Technology will assist with this, or some consumers may choose to say yes to LGD melee and yes to earth mined larger diamond in the one ring.

That's fine! If all things are transparent and disclosed!
But the point is some untruthful jewellers want to cheat their clients. They use melee MMD in the settings but tell the buyers those "are " "diamonds"!!! Their customers always think those are nature ones since the main diamond is nature with the report! You know 1ct total of nature melee diamonds is arround 200 to 1500 usd, depends on sizes and quality.They can easily get less than half or 1/3 of that cost by using lab grown!!!

 

[Yelena]

That's fine! If all things are transparent and disclosed!
But the point is some untruthful jewellers want to cheat their clients. They use melee MMD in the settings but tell the buyers those "are " "diamonds"!!! Their customers always think those are nature ones since the main diamond is nature with the report! You know 1ct total of nature melee diamonds is arround 200 to 1500 usd, depends on sizes and quality.They can easily get less than half or 1/3 of that cost by using lab grown!!!

Yes I know about this issue. It’s off topic for this thread.

 

[missy]

That's fine! If all things are transparent and disclosed!
But the point is some untruthful jewellers want to cheat their clients. They use melee MMD in the settings but tell the buyers those "are " "diamonds"!!! Their customers always think those are nature ones since the main diamond is nature with the report! You know 1ct total of nature melee diamonds is arround 200 to 1500 usd, depends on sizes and quality.They can easily get less than half or 1/3 of that cost by using lab grown!!!

Wow that is incredibly unethical and I cannot believe some people/jewelers would risk their reputation by doing this.

Just goes to show how important it is to trust but verify.

 

[VDK1]

Wow that is incredibly unethical and I cannot believe some people/jewelers would risk their reputation by doing this.

Just goes to show how important it is to trust but verify.

Buy this ??? !!!!
No graphs, colors, reference charts, or data to interpret to determine if your stone is a natural diamond or not. In just two seconds you get a simple "Pass" for natural diamonds and "Refer" for stones that need more testing

GIA iD100 Gem Testing Device

With the growing availability of synthetic diamonds in the marketplace, full disclosure and confidence in knowing what you are buying is now more important than ever. GIA has developed a sophisticated and easy-to-operate desktop instrument to screen for these stones.

discover.gia.edu

 

[missy]

Buy this ??? !!!!
No graphs, colors, reference charts, or data to interpret to determine if your stone is a natural diamond or not. In just two seconds you get a simple "Pass" for natural diamonds and "Refer" for stones that need more testing

GIA iD100 Gem Testing Device

With the growing availability of synthetic diamonds in the marketplace, full disclosure and confidence in knowing what you are buying is now more important than ever. GIA has developed a sophisticated and easy-to-operate desktop instrument to screen for these stones.

discover.gia.edu

Thank you for the link. Very nice this technology exists for the general public. But it is pricey at the starting cost of $4,995 USD. I would prefer bringing whatever piece is in question to my very trustworthy jeweler and having it checked there. Just doesn't make sense for many jewelry hobbyists as that could be a good percentage of the cost of a nice piece of jewelry if you kwim.

GIA iD100®

Exclusive service with purchase of the GIA iD100®. See below for details.The GIA iD100® combines advanced spectroscopic technology with GIA's 60 years of diamond and gemstone identification research to distinguish natural diamonds from laboratory-grown (HPHT and CVD) diamonds and diamond...

store.gia.edu

 

[VDK1]

Thank you for the link. Very nice this technology exists for the general public. But it is pricey at the starting cost of $4,995 USD. I would prefer bringing whatever piece is in question to my very trustworthy jeweler and having it checked there. Just doesn't make sense for many jewelry hobbyists as that could be a good percentage of the cost of a nice piece of jewelry if you kwim.

GIA iD100®

Exclusive service with purchase of the GIA iD100®. See below for details.The GIA iD100® combines advanced spectroscopic technology with GIA's 60 years of diamond and gemstone identification research to distinguish natural diamonds from laboratory-grown (HPHT and CVD) diamonds and diamond...

store.gia.edu

This is not for consumers! This is for jewellers/retailers or wholesale!

 

[missy]

This is not for consumers! This is for jewellers/retailers or wholesale!

OK!
You linked it in response to my comment about trust but verify so I thought you were sharing it for the consumer as well as jewelers.

 

[VDK1]

OK!
You linked it in response to my comment about trust but verify so I thought you were sharing it for the consumer as well as jewelers.

Oh, if you have a hobby to ....shop diamonds every weekend, so it is for you! Free Of Charge

 

[missy]

Oh, if you have a hobby to ....shop diamonds every weekend, so it is for you! Free Of Charge

 

[icy_jade]

And I have another question. For the CS people, do people generally distinguish between MMD color stones or mined colored stones? Have MM CS been around a lot longer than MMD? How does the colored stone industry view MM v mined? How does that affect the pricing? Can similar comparisons be made with MMD v mined diamonds?

Synthetics are very different from mined gems. I mean, colored gems collectors even distinguish between treated (e.g. heated, filled, oiled, etc) and untreated (ie straight from ground just cut and polished) gems right. Some will only buy untreated gems.

Synthetics are very affordable too. At previous gems shows they go for like USD50-60 per carat (before bargaining). Compare this to like thousands for a one carat untreated ruby depending on the color and place of origin and you get the idea.

Anyway here is an interesting article on gem prices from 1935:

Historical Study of Gem Prices from Sydney H. Ball (1877- — Pala international

www.palagems.com

A lab grown diamond is still a diamond, and if I meet and compliment the diamond ring of a lady who owns one, in no way do I expect them to disclose whether it’s lab or mined.

True about that. I won’t expect full disclosure. But that said if I’m wearing a 4 ct MMD, I’ll probably cheerfully disclose it anyway if it’s a friend or colleague who asks. Because I think most people will assume it’s a mined diamond and I don’t feel comfortable letting them walk away thinking it’s a mined diamond. But that’s just me and as mentioned certainly don’t expect the same disclosure if I compliment others. It’s a personal choice.


=============
Ok but back to the topic, if mined diamond prices do go up, I expect that will drive more people to embrace MMD and in turn accelerate the acceptance of mined diamonds in the consumer market. Maybe not something that the diamond industry would want? Or maybe doesn’t matter anyway since the millennials and younger generation seem to embrace MMDs anyway

 

[VDK1]

@icy_jade I think lab grown (synthetic) ruby normally only costs arround 20 - 40 usd/ carat. You are right, we need to bargain. The nature unheated high quality rubies (faceted cut or star rubies) are very hard to find nowaday even in Myanmar, Thailand or Vietnam.

Back to the topic, what do you think about the "future" nature diamond price? Do you agree that :"Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive ?"

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don’t care if people wear jems czs, glass, or plastic and never expect or ask them to disclose whether it is mined/ enhanched/ heat treated/ being treated by other process or totally synthetic/ lab grown!

But if you sell your MMD to someone ( if you are able to do so), you have to clearly disclose it is a lab grown diamond!

Again
If I wear a CZ or a moissanite or a MMD ring, and someone say : " Your ring is beautiful", I will reply :" Thank you!"

If he says : Your diamond ring is beautiful" , I will reply "Thank you! But this is a CZ /moissanite/ MMD ring. You see, it sparkles as a diamond!"

Because I love things I have and there is nothing to hide about their origins or materials ..

Sorry to return to the off topic posts, but I wanted to say that obviously if one misrepresents an item they are SELLING, that is a crime! A seller is extremely different than the owner/wearer of jewelry.

That's fine if you want to give more information if someone compliments your LGD diamond ring. But I don't think anyone is morally obligated to do so since it IS a diamond. That's not hiding anything. That was my point.

To the main question of the thread, I agree with @icy_jade that if LGDs become popular driving up the prices of mined diamonds, they will become more inaccessible to people and they will sell fewer of them. Once LGDs become priced reasonably and people are able to sort through and get good ones without negative internal graining issues, I do think there will be a gradual decline in sales of mined diamonds as younger people accept LGDs.

 

[Cerulean]

Comparing diamonds to kids is frankly unnecessary and cruel. Can we have a conversation without bringing in IVF kids on every other page. Let’s compare objects to objects. Diamonds vs gems vs whatever inanimate object. Not kids.

10000% agree which is why i brought it up earlier and compared MMD to lab grown meat- granted that may be emotional for some ppl too but a bit more analogous. not only is the kids / to diamonds an apples to oranges comparison, it's in poor taste. i do get it is trying to illustrate a point but we can use other examples that don't tug at the heartstrings

 

[FL_runner]

I thought that the discussion of cultured versus naturally occurring pearls was a thoughtful comparison.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

sorry to have “upset” with the example and parallel that i drew of emotional attachment…but it was something i had accounted for when I continued to stand up for the mistreatment of others.

i have been consistent in all 4 of my posts on this thread. my stand is clear. i have chosen to stand up and speak up when i see mmd engagement, anniversary, upgrade rings being called “cheap ring” demeaning, degrading inferring the inferiority and worthlessness of mmd, i don’t know about some of you, but to me THAT is insulting, offensive, unnecessary, cruel and in poor taste.

and when that type of direct and outward insult was met with resistance. the unnecessary and cruel degrading belittling continued but now shrouded in a thin veil of righteousness. insisting that full declaration and disclosure, be a part of an mmd ring wearers experience when she is complimented on her ring.

unlike some individuals, i will not be complicit thereby enabling this type of mistreatment of members that choose mmds. yes, that does indeed expose myself to those outliers. that conveniently, have not spoken up for anyone, to pick apart, my efforts. clearly, we see where these people stand and what they stand for.

in my example, i am comparing parallel feelings. the feelings and emotional attachment that mmd wearers feel towards their chosen symbol of love align with the feelings and emotional attachment that earth mined wearers feel for their ring.

but those that have stood by, while people are being put down and picked on, have resorted to picking apart my concerted effort to defend them and their feelings, to find flaw. it calls into question, the intent and motive of such behavior.

mmd have just this one subform. it is their rocky talky, it is their show me the bling. i believe some baseline decency, respect and sensitivity can and should be afforded to them.

others may opine about mmd, trade member, or otherwise, it is done on an earth mined thread. at the very least, that shows a rudimentary respect. did they come to the mmd thread to offer their opinion?? it’s not unlike going into someone’s house and saying they have a cheap, worthless home. is that how people are raised??

mmds going up or down in price seems to bother the mmd people very little. especially true of those that wear mmd as their engagement/anniversary/upgrade ring

 

[Eeveepenny]

sorry to have “upset” with the example and parallel that i drew of emotional attachment…but it was something i had accounted for when I continued to stand up for the mistreatment of others.

i have been consistent in all 4 of my posts on this thread. my stand is clear. i have chosen to stand up and speak up when i see mmd engagement, anniversary, upgrade rings being called “cheap ring” demeaning, degrading inferring the inferiority and worthlessness of mmd, i don’t know about some of you, but to me THAT is insulting, offensive, unnecessary, cruel and in poor taste.

and when that type of direct and outward insult was met with resistance. the unnecessary and cruel degrading belittling continued but now shrouded in a thin veil of righteousness. insisting that full declaration and disclosure, be a part of an mmd ring wearers experience when she is complimented on her ring.

unlike some individuals, i will not be complicit thereby enabling this type of mistreatment of members that choose mmds. yes, that does indeed expose myself to those outliers. that conveniently, have not spoken up for anyone, to pick apart, my efforts. clearly, we see where these people stand and what they stand for.

in my example, i am comparing parallel feelings. the feelings and emotional attachment that mmd wearers feel towards their chosen symbol of love align with the feelings and emotional attachment that earth mined wearers feel for their ring.

but those that have stood by, while people are being put down and picked on, have resorted to picking apart my concerted effort to defend them and their feelings, to find flaw. it calls into question, the intent and motive of such behavior.

mmd have just this one subform. it is their rocky talky, it is their show me the bling. i believe some baseline decency, respect and sensitivity can and should be afforded to them.

others may opine about mmd, trade member, or otherwise, it is done on an earth mined thread. at the very least, that shows a rudimentary respect. did they come to the mmd thread to offer their opinion?? it’s not unlike going into someone’s house and saying they have a cheap, worthless home. is that how people are raised??

mmds going up or down in price seems to bother the mmd people very little. especially true of those that wear mmd as their engagement/anniversary/upgrade ring

Well said!

 

[VDK1]

@Big Fat Facets : I got your points, your feelings but this thread is about PRICES :
"Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive"

Why diamonds are : Expensive/cheap /reasonable/ going up/going down/ worth/ worthless/ xyz usd per carat.. and why is that price..., right?

 

[Big Fat Facets]

Well said!

thank you

 

[pearaffair]

I thought that the discussion of cultured versus naturally occurring pearls was a thoughtful comparison.

I agree! I’m reading a chapter in “Stoned” right now that discusses how Mikimoto decided not to hide but instead to play up the “cultured” aspect of his “perfect” pearls. I wonder if we will see “perfect” “cultured” MMD in the future!

 

[Buttercookies]

@Big Fat Facets : I got your points, your feelings but this thread is about PRICES :
"Lab grown diamonds will make good natural diamonds way more expensive"

Why diamonds are : Expensive/cheap /reasonable/ going up/going down/ worth/ worthless/ xyz usd per carat.. and why is that price..., right?

You need to read her post again.

 

[Cerulean]

sorry to have “upset” with the example and parallel that i drew of emotional attachment…but it was something i had accounted for when I continued to stand up for the mistreatment of others.

i have been consistent in all 4 of my posts on this thread. my stand is clear. i have chosen to stand up and speak up when i see mmd engagement, anniversary, upgrade rings being called “cheap ring” demeaning, degrading inferring the inferiority and worthlessness of mmd, i don’t know about some of you, but to me THAT is insulting, offensive, unnecessary, cruel and in poor taste.

and when that type of direct and outward insult was met with resistance. the unnecessary and cruel degrading belittling continued but now shrouded in a thin veil of righteousness. insisting that full declaration and disclosure, be a part of an mmd ring wearers experience when she is complimented on her ring.

unlike some individuals, i will not be complicit thereby enabling this type of mistreatment of members that choose mmds. yes, that does indeed expose myself to those outliers. that conveniently, have not spoken up for anyone, to pick apart, my efforts. clearly, we see where these people stand and what they stand for.

in my example, i am comparing parallel feelings. the feelings and emotional attachment that mmd wearers feel towards their chosen symbol of love align with the feelings and emotional attachment that earth mined wearers feel for their ring.

but those that have stood by, while people are being put down and picked on, have resorted to picking apart my concerted effort to defend them and their feelings, to find flaw. it calls into question, the intent and motive of such behavior.

mmd have just this one subform. it is their rocky talky, it is their show me the bling. i believe some baseline decency, respect and sensitivity can and should be afforded to them.

others may opine about mmd, trade member, or otherwise, it is done on an earth mined thread. at the very least, that shows a rudimentary respect. did they come to the mmd thread to offer their opinion?? it’s not unlike going into someone’s house and saying they have a cheap, worthless home. is that how people are raised??

mmds going up or down in price seems to bother the mmd people very little. especially true of those that wear mmd as their engagement/anniversary/upgrade ring

Just to be clear...you seem to be paraphrasing my post and in the same vein using it to discuss people who have been disrespectful of MMD owners. I have literally no thin veil of self righteousness. The comparison is offensive. Separate of the issue here. I openly declared that I see a place for both and hope to own an MMD someday. I honestly don’t see anything as vicious as you are describing in this thread. Maybe it’s elsewhere in the forum? I’m not trying to be obtuse, I’m trying to be honest because I feel like I’m missing something

We happen to agree about MMD and it is lousy to insult someone’s MMD. No brainer. I was just hoping that we as a collective be more sensitive about IVF / comparisons to children because many people in the world and possibly this forum have invisible and deep wounds regarding the matter and there is no reason to include it. I’m not trying to undermine the topic at hand, but its triggering to bring it up especially in the context of comparison to a mere object, even if it’s deeply emotional / sentimental. That’s all.

 

[Cerulean]

I guess last thought - I think it is natural for a forum such as this to express interest in an emerging market like MMD and try to dissect it, understand the value beyond just emotional / sentimental. I would hope that is the case. I am personally interested in learning more about the market as a potential purchaser. Sometimes taking a very analytical approach can hurt people in the crossfire of an emotional topic

Perhaps we can figure out ways to improve the discourse as a forum? It doesn't feel like anyone meant to offend but it's easy to stumble or fumble with topics like this.

 

[123ducklings]

I guess last thought - I think it is natural for a forum such as this to express interest in an emerging market like MMD and try to dissect it, understand the value beyond just emotional / sentimental. I would hope that is the case. I am personally interested in learning more about the market as a potential purchaser. Sometimes taking a very analytical approach can hurt people in the crossfire of an emotional topic

Perhaps we can figure out ways to improve the discourse as a forum? It doesn't feel like anyone meant to offend but it's easy to stumble or fumble with topics like this.

There’s nothing wrong with analyzing the market. No one took issue with Gary’s post or the initial discussion. I think people get offended when they are personally named and there are statements speculating about their personal milestone jewelry to the tune of “it’s cheap, fake, will lose its significance, and the woman who chose it must not know her worth.” And I think anyone who makes those comments over and over, especially after a mod reminder that it’s possible to express your own preferences without being nasty about someone else’s jewelry, is definitely meaning to offend.

Luckily most of us live and let live, so I’m confident most of us will continue to steer back to the original topic, which is of interest to MMD enthusiasts, naysayers, and many in between.

 

[123ducklings]

Back to the original question of whether MMD will affect the price of mined diamonds, I think...maybe not. I think there are people that will still choose mined diamonds, because they are mined. And there are people that will choose MMD for their reasons, and people that are open to both.

What is interesting is the uses of diamonds as a semiconductor. Prior to the technology of making MMD being more available and developed, diamonds were too expensive to be used as semiconductors. But with this industry growing, maybe the impact is on other technologies. I found this article, and another much more in depth one I cannot find right now. It will be very interesting to see how the MMD industry affects the high tech industry.

The case for diamond semiconductors - Electronic Products & Technology

Newly developed technology aims to impact and transform all industries

www.ept.ca

Diamonds - the ultimate semiconductors

Diamonds' simple yet unique characteristics create significant potential for use in a wide range of purposes, including generation of environmental energy and biological applications.

www.nanowerk.com

.

Maybe DeBeers isn't planning on making MMD for retail sale their primary goal. Maybe they planning on supplying the tech market.

De Beers eyes tech markets for synthetic diamonds future

Anglo American unit De Beers is going after lucrative, but elusive high-tech markets in quantum computing, as it aims to expand its lab-grown diamond business beyond drilling and cutting.

www.reuters.com

UC Davis College of Letters and Science

lettersandscience.ucdavis.edu

The use of synthetic diamonds as semiconductors does not necessarily diminish the value of a beautiful mined diamond.

And I have another question. For the CS people, do people generally distinguish between MMD color stones or mined colored stones? Have MM CS been around a lot longer than MMD? How does the colored stone industry view MM v mined? How does that affect the pricing? Can similar comparisons be made with MMD v mined diamonds?

Thank you for posting all these articles! I’m finally having time to catch up on the thread. I’ve been reading about the machinery and tech uses for diamonds for a while now. While significant to those on this forum, I think the jewelry application for lab diamonds will end up being a rather small portion of the lab grown market. Can any of the pros speak to how the tool and tech applications of the last 50? 70? years have interacted with the mined diamond jewelry market? I’m guessing there’s little interaction because non-gem quality rough is used, but maybe those sub-J moderately included gem diamonds Gary mentioned will be redirected toward manufacturing purposes in the future? Total shot in the dark as I’m posting on a jewelry forum and therefore have only very cursory understanding of non-gem uses for diamonds

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade I think lab grown (synthetic) ruby normally only costs arround 20 - 40 usd/ carat. You are right, we need to bargain. The nature unheated high quality rubies (faceted cut or star rubies) are very hard to find nowaday even in Myanmar, Thailand or Vietnam.

I never bargained as I wasn’t interested. Just curious about prices and how lab gems look. For those who don’t go to gem shows we are talking faceted lab stones btw, not even the raw materials or whatever.

I agree! I’m reading a chapter in “Stoned” right now that discusses how Mikimoto decided not to hide but instead to play up the “cultured” aspect of his “perfect” pearls. I wonder if we will see “perfect” “cultured” MMD in the future!

If they can make IF D color type IIa MMDs at good prices, count me in! Or even beautiful intense colored stones right.

mmd have just this one subform. it is their rocky talky, it is their show me the bling. i believe some baseline decency, respect and sensitivity can and should be afforded to them.

others may opine about mmd, trade member, or otherwise, it is done on an earth mined thread. at the very least, that shows a rudimentary respect. did they come to the mmd thread to offer their opinion?? it’s not unlike going into someone’s house and saying they have a cheap, worthless home. is that how people are raised??

Oh I actually thought it’s in the MMD forum as this is the only place where we can discuss MMD related stuff? I don’t think there is any intent to offend in your space so to speak. I’ll ask if the admins can move this thread to Rockytalky or wherever else if it helps.

I do think the IVF comparison is terribly offensive and consider that I’m neither an IVF baby nor a parent of one. Surely there are better comparisons than babies to diamonds?