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Steve: I''m really sorry you''re going through this. Honestly, hearing something like this gets me really peeved, mainly because I feel like you are doing your best, and your best isn''t enough for her.

Now here''s the difference to me: Are you being stingy with the budget? Or can you really not afford it? If it''s the latter, then stick to your budget because this will set a bad tone for the rest of your life. Diamonds make you smile, give you a little thrill, but it you need them to be "happy" in your relationship, then I''m inclined to believe that the lifestyle and things you can provide for her aren''t enough for her. Hopefully she''ll work with you with your budget. Just reassure her that an upgrade isn''t out of the picture, but this is all you can afford. And quite frankly, this is all you can DO.
 
Hey Steve,
I just wanted to say -- this has nothing to do with YOU. She''s getting ahead of herself $$$-wise. She''s in law school, right? She thinks she''s gonna be minting $$ any day now -- you already have a good job -- she''s living in la-la dreamland about how PHAT and FLUSH your lives are destined to be ... and want to JUMP THE GUN and show everyone else how AWESOME your life/prospects/future is with a BIG OL SPARKLY.

I''d guess she really IS surrouned with people getting big rocks & OVER spending against future income. It''s a real phenomenon -- and not unusual at all!

She''s also pretty spoiled. Probably always used to getting what she wants (from mom & dad -- from her "wedding $ for ring" idea). NOW -- getting married to YOU, this is her first ROADBLOCK toward getting "exactly what she wants". How you both handle it will tell you a lot about how your marrage will go & how ready she is to GROW UP.

Have you asked her if SHE''D be willing to contribute to her sparkly. If she matched your $6000 -- she''d have $12,000 to work with. Tell her to take out an extra LAW SCHOOL loan for it & see how THAT goes over. Maybe it''ll make the "debt" and $$$ real to her ... right now it''s YOURS and HER PARENTS she''s dreaming away with. ALSO -- remind her that if you BORROW $$ to FINANCE the ring -- um, you BOTH will be paying for it in the long run anyway!

It''s all about priorities ... if she''s willing to sacrifice a new car, other trips etc for a BIG SPARKLY ... and you can negotiate terms you''re happy with -- fine. If not ... keep negotiating ...

Good luck!
Deco
 
Awww, I sympathize with both you and your gf.

It sounds like she's a very good person, but a little confused.

I'm guessing that she was raised in a wealthy family. Sometimes that can warp the perception of reality... especially being around others who don't understand certain monetary concepts.

We might be a little hard on her -- I mean, she has a dream ring and maybe doesn't "get" why she can't have it when others can. Ya know? Can any blue bloods chime in here? Coming from different financial backgrounds can cause misunderstandings initially, but it's in no way indicative of a lack of love. I see it all the time. Love meets reality.

I'm sure she loves you and is thrilled to be marrying you. She's probably just really into a dream ring like we all are & doesn't understand why you can't give it to her. She may have never known hardship or etc.

It's quite common when two worlds collide that you have these misunderstandings. I've seen it happen to many of my friends and they are very much in love. They just don't "get" certain things. The guy may say, "You're spending $600 for shoes???" and she'll be like, "What's the matter with that? I always buy Manolos!" LOL. It's not a love issue, just an understanding issue.

The question now is, how do you resolve it? I don't think you should necessarily fault her and see her as the villain. You should work with her. How about a halo? That makes smaller stones look massive. I love the upgrade idea for an anniversary. Does she have an inherited stone in her family that you could showcase in a fancy setting?

There are many ways to make her happy without breaking your budget. This is a good exercise in how you two will approach the future together. I think it's a very good challenge and you'll both come out the wiser. And you'll be closer.
 
Another thought -- (cuz I try for balance in all things)....maybe she''s just caught up in some pre-engagement wedding-planning hysteria and can''t see the forest for the trees. Some girls can get really worked up about getting engaged that they start to focus too much on things like the ring, the wedding gown, etc etc. Obviously you wouldn''t be with her if she were not a great woman. So maybe just tell her that even though she can''t have her 20K ring right now, there will be options in the future. She may not be aware that there are vendors out there who have trade-up policies. Anyhow, I better get back to making my family''s pancakes but I just wanted to put that out there. (nothing anyone else hasn''t already said but I wanted to provide a little counterbalance against my post, which was admittedly on the reactive side!)
 
Date: 5/20/2006 10:44:54 AM
Author: decodelighted

It''s all about priorities ... if she''s willing to sacrifice a new car, other trips etc for a BIG SPARKLY ... and you can negotiate terms you''re happy with -- fine. If not ... keep negotiating ...

Good luck!
Deco
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It doesn''t sound like she is willing to sacrifice. I take back my initial response regarding your unwillingness to spend the money. She doesn''t want to sacrifice on color. You both want a new car. No wedding money will be used towards the ring.

One thing for sure in a partnership - you can not have it ALL. Somethin''s gotta to give. Someone''s gotta to give.
 
Hmmmmm......

I too started out without an understanding of how much good engagement rings cost. Gulp... and dramatically upped what I would be w i l l i n g to spend. It''s a tough one. I''ve been paying off over $40,000 in credit card debt and know how much that affects my life. I can''t immaging going substaintially in debt for a ring.

You sound like your priorities are right.

If you reported her attitude correctly I have to question how well things will go in the future.

Most law students do not undersand that most lawyers don''t make that much. Yes a few do, and there are a few high paying jobs out there for initial graduates - but that is not the average.

Methinks that you and her should have a serious discussion about future finances and priorities - and if you cannot come to an agreement.... (is she planning on declaring bankruptcy in order to clear the debts that it seems she and you will rack up?) --- then you need to admit that you will not need a ring for her and her parents weading money.

Hiking off to La La land without the resources will not make a sucessfull marriage.

Perry
 
If she decides that the size and quality of the ring are non-negotiable, would she be willing to wait until you can buy it without going into debt? (Unless you find a vendor who gives you a year or so to pay for the ring with no finance charges, going into debt isn''t worth it.) If she isn''t willing to wait, would she consider paying for it herself?
 
Hmm, sounds like you''re really in a tough spot here...you have a set budget (which you''ve already doubled) and your gf has set her sights on a much more expensive ring. I think that a lot of girls get really involved in the details of the wedding...and go a little nutso (think bride-zilla) and fail to remember what it''s really about...but usually this is just temporary insanity that passes once the big day is all said and done. Hopefully, this is the case with your gf...she wants that princess / fairy tale wedding and the 3-sided pave Michael B e-ring is part of that fantasy. Key word here being: fantasy.

An e-ring is a beautiful thing, but what it represents should make it a cherished gift no matter what it looks like. If she is one of those people who is always comparing what she has to what other people have, then she''ll never be happy...cuz I can guarantee that there will always be someone out there with something bigger, better, and more expensive.

I think a lot of people have given you some really good options here. If I were your gf, I would work with a vendor that has a good trade-up policy...start with something modest now (in a plain setting) and maybe in a few years, she can upgrade to something a little bigger ONCE you''re more financially stable.

She has to understand that you guys are just starting out...while there are some people out there who can afford $20K rings from the get-go, MOST people can''t...and in fact, most people will never have excess discretionary income to afford such a luxury.

I truly hope that you and your gf can get this all sorted out -- the best of luck to you both! And if all else fails, just remind your girl that planning her next upgrade can be a lot of fun. There are a lot of people on PS who can vouch for that!
 
IMHO $6000 and 1ct in your situtation sounds more than generous! I don''t think anyone will suggest going in debt an extra $10-14K to get her what she "wants", would be a good way to begin your engaged/married life!

Marriage is all about compromise though, so hopefully you''ll be able to work something out that works for both of you! In my marriage, I get my way 90% of the time, but my husband puts his foot down that other 10%!
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But, I wouldn''t go into big debt for anything other than a house or vehicle either! Diamonds (me) and motorcycles (hubby) are a cash-only purchases in our house!
 
As the expression goes, something''s gotta give.

I liked the suggestion of having her contribute financially. I see nothing wrong with that if she has anything to contribute. If she doesn''t, then, as others have said, she may not have the same goals, values, or priorities. Or she may be lacking an understanding of how finances work.

Frankly, this seems like it is about more than who is right in this situation. She wants what she wants. You will not always agree, but this may be a sign that you are fundamentally incompatible. You should be marrying someone whose wishes you are glad to fulfill -- in other words, someone whose wishes are reasonable in your eyes. My dad gave me the great advice that marriage is about understanding and respecting what is important to the other person. Maybe what is important to her isn''t important to you, and vice versa.

Yes, I post on this forum and love seeing and learning about diamonds, but I am nowhere near a place in my life where I would spend as much as a car costs on a diamond. And I''m not in debt, I have a respectable amount in my retirement account, and we have a sizable nestegg of inherited and saved money. But like you said, I would rather take a vacation with my husband or get a new car. My husband didn''t even have to spring for a diamond for my engagement ring because I inherited one.

On the other hand, I understand wanting what you want. I really really want a $900 diamond band to replace my plain gold wedding band. I have hinted about it some, and finally it came out that my husband was waiting until some far off anniversary. So I said, "Well, can I buy it then? Because I really want it!" He was indignant at that, but I pointed out that this is not asking for a lot from someone who paid less than that for my engagement ring and whose debts I paid off as soon as we got engaged. This will make me happy, and I don''t think I am being unreasonable in asking for it. I guess he felt similarly to what you said -- that I don''t "deserve" an upgrade until we''ve been married a long time. But this is within the range of a reasonable amount to spend on a nice gift, so I think he should just want to make me happy.

Whatever you decide, here are some tips on stretching your budget --

* avoid the premium for H&A and go for average cut with a smaller depth percentage (high 50''s or around 60) to have a bigger look
* get a G VS2 stone with an EGL cert (never thought I would recommend that!) because they sell for less than GIA or AGS certed stones

Sample stone: http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=10127984


 
Okay. We'll I'm going to provide a bit of perspective here.

Your GF is in lawschool. This clarifies things for me. I'm a lawyer and therefore went to lawschool, and I went to an expensive, very highly ranked, private law school. And I'm here to tell you, it is very easy to loose perspective in law school. It's all about keeping up with the Jones's. The people around her are naturally competitive, and many of them are also naturally materialistic. This is your problem.

NOT PRICESCOPE. I've been in both. I've got news for you... her forays here-- not the issue, they aren't helping-- but they aren't the source. Her issue is that she's competitive, insecure, and becoming increasingly materialistic.

If Pricescope isn't representative of reality... let me tell you something RIGHT NOW. Lawschool is the antithesis of reality. She's thinking about her classmates and all they have... and thinking about the huge salary she's anticipating making and wants the ring as a staus symbol. Cause that's exactly what they are when your in that atmosphere. If you had asked me my second year in law school what kind of ring I wanted... I would have told you it HAD to be 1.5 carats or more.

This ring is a symbol of your commitment to her. For her... it's a symbol of her 'status' her worth, not just as you fiance, but as a lawyer, as a woman, and as a whole lot of other things that should never have entered into the equation. You compare EVERYTHING of yours to everyone elses in lawschool. And you compare boyfriends... and how do you compare them? Not on the basis of how thoughtful, considerate, and responsible they are... but you compare them on how well they can provide for you (the ring). It's all screwed up and REALLY BAD.

But I promise you... this place, aint your problem. It is much worse, unfortunately. Some people (I know because I've watched my classmates in the years since graduation) never recover from this skewing of priorities. It becomes a permanent mindset for them... constantly comparing, apraising, and upgrading.

And that's because they are still insecure, still afraid they aren't good enough... and are hoping that people will be blinded by the bling and not see futher.

I hope your lady isn't one of those. She needs to get her head on straight... but as long as she's in lawschool... probably not going to happen. And if she goes to a big firm, making 96K plus a year, working 60-90 hours a week... it's not going to get better... because that paycheck will be all she's working for... and she's going to want the toys to show for it

Good luck. You're going to need it.
 
I have been lurking on the boards for a while now, and I feel the need to respond to this post.

Have women lost the meaning of getting engaged?

When my husband bought my ring we were in a tough spot. I was still in school, and we just paid off all our debt so we could buy a house. I just wanted to marry him. I felt like something was missing and it wasnt good enough to be just living together, I wanted to have a husband. I knew he couldnt spend much on a ring, so I found one that I liked. Guess how much it was....$695. The center stone is .17 ct, probably the smallest one on PS. Now that we have been married almost two years and are in a better fincial situation we are going to upgrade the center stone to a .75ct. I do not want to replace my original setting, it has too much meaning to me. Its the ring that he placed on my finger the day he promised to spend the rest of his life with me. And the engagement ring and band were made to fit together, so there is no way I can replace just the ER.

Sorry for the rambling, but my point is that your girlfriend is missing the whole point of an engagement. She only cares about the "hardware" and the bling that she can show off to her friends. If $6000 is your budget you need to stick with it. Let her know that you can upgrade when your better off financially. She should be happy with what she can get, and be happy that you want to commit the rest of your life to her. What happens is you give in now and buy her a ring for 20k and 5 years down the road you go to buy a house. The only house you can afford is 500K, but all her friends are living in million dollar houses. Are you going to get a 2nd or 3rd job to buy her the million dollar house she wants?

I do apologize if I sound harsh, I really dont mean to be. Its a sore subject for me when a woman is more worried about the size of her diamond than being with someone that is willing to love her for the rest of her life.
 
Wow, Gypsy....interesting perspective! And I bet you''re right on..

(Of course it doesn''t do much to improve my opinion of the law profession
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Mine, either Widget. LOL.
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I have to respectfully disagree with much of what has been said about law school and lawyers. I went to a highly ranked, private law school and most of my friends are from there also. Granted, there are a couple girls who "require" large rings from their fiances. But, overall, most girls have about a carat, some much less, some slightly more. My best friend (a lawyer) recently proposed to his GF with a 1.16 F VS diamond. They have no plans to upgrade. She loves her ring, and he is proud to have given her a beautiful diamond. I think it has less to do with being a lawyer, or law student, and more to do with individual backgrounds. The girls who I know with 2.5, or 3 carat rings, are from NYc, planning on returning there, and consider 2 carats the absolute minimum allowed. Yes, some lawyers make a lot of money, but there gets to be a point where the idea of spending 2 months salary when you make $150,000 seems a bit excessive, especially for young people who still have to save for mortgages, children, etc. I think $6,000 is an great budget, and a 1 carat ring is a great size. I can see where she could be upset if she feels that you spend a lot more on other perks, like electronics, cars, etc. But, if that is honestly all that you can spend at this point in your life, she should be happy with it, and most of all, happy to be with you.
 
I will say that my lawschool was located in DC. Where honestly, materialism runs shamefully rampant JDgirl... and that I wish I''d gone to your school!!! LOL.
 
Well, well, well, thanks for the thoughts, especially about how law school and not PriceScope can be twisting my girlfriend''s mind. I never thought about it that way.

She is very competitive by nature. Her father is a very high successful lawyer and she has an older brother that is a lawyer, an older sister that is now a judge, a brother that is a physician, and a younger brother that goes to the same law school she does. My girlfriend plans on working for her father''s firm once she graduates so I doubt she will have to put in the 80-90 hour weeks that new lawyers usually do. I thought her competitiveness was more to do with her trying to prove herself on her own merits and not just trying to get by based on her family name. Law school was paid for by her parents (as were all the other kids'' schooling) and I don''t think she has ever had a "real" job, at least not that I can really remember. Spoiled? I guess you can say she is.

I have known her and her family since high school and for having a lot of money and prestige, they are very down to earth. I love her family and they do love the finer things in life, but they aren''t the kind of people to throw it in your face or make you feel bad if you can''t afford something. If I got her a 1 carat ring, her family would be fine with it, so it''s not as though I have to prove anything to them. They say I must be a saint for being with their daughter this long! They know she is sometimes in the clouds and they like me because I am real and have a real perspective on things.

I don''t mean to sound like I am bashing her because I really love her and would not consider marrying her if I didn''t. We generally don''t argue but this ring has made her a different person.

I caught her lurking earlier and she didn''t say anything about discovering this thread. Then she was on the WhiteFlash site looking at 1.5 carat diamonds again. She doesn''t know I saw her. I am going to mention the halo idea, although she said once she didn''t like them. I am not saying I will never upgrade but I have made it clear that it won''t happen before we are married for financial reasons. I''d rather have a house and new car.

I am going to let everything digest for a few days and see what happens. I never thought about letting her contribute to the budget. I don''t think any of my friends let their girlfriends contribute.

Any more thoughts on letting her contribute? I am adamant about not using the wedding money from her parents toward her ring and she knows that will not fly. But "her" money is not something I had considered.
 
Steve - If you think about it once your married your money & hers are one in the same and all decisions regarding financial goals should be done together. In saying this I believe if she is willing to contribute some savings to her dream ring than I see nothing wrong with this approach. So long as both of you are not sacrificing other future goals. Even if your "talk" didn''t go over like you thought just remember there will be many times in your marriage that you won''t see eye to eye it''s all one big compromise from the day you say "I do." The ability to talk it out and compromise are the relationships that last. I think your girlfriend sounds like a nice young lady whose just getting caught up in the "fantasy" nothing wrong with that so long as you both come to an agreement on what is doable.

Best of luck.
 
Apparently the ring is of paramount importance to her, so if she wants to contribute her own money (actual savings, not credit) in order to get what she wants, sure why not? I know several couples who did it that way. This is the 21st century after all.
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It seems like a nice compromise. How do you think she''d react to the idea? I have a feeling she might be OK with it, since right now all she can probably think about is "losing out" on a 2 carat diamond. Again, so sorry that this has become a contentious issue with you guys. It must be so frustrating for you, it''s clear that you just want her to be happy.

Since it can be way too easy to get overly focused on THE RING and forget about your relationship, maybe you can steer things back on track and do something simple and fun together, something that will remind you both of that fact that you''re in love and embarking on a new life together. Long walks, talking over a candlelit dinner at home, etc.
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Date: 5/19/2006 9:52:58 PM
Author: ladykemma
tell her to look closely at the age spots and wrinkly hands on a lot of us. I'm serious.
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Ain't that the truth!!! I guess in my case it's a good thing I didn't care about diamonds when I was young, because we most certainly could not have afforded them and absolutely didn't buy them! My engagement ring (which I will never give away for an "upgrade"), has two 1-point diamonds inside an 18K yellow gold oval.

After a few years of marriage I nagged my husband into buying me an "eternity band" that has (yes, I still have it, too) about ten diamonds of about 7-points each in it. I didn't have anything that was close to even 1/4 carat until I was well into my 40's. But, as I said, my interest in diamonds is recent. I couldn't have cared less about them when I was younger. No...that's not completely true. I did kind of wish we could have afforded a 1/4 or 1/3 carat diamond engagement ring. I wonder if, had I gotten a diamond that size then, I would ever have become interested in buying another diamond! When my best friend received a huge diamond engagement ring (or what seemed huge to me then), I was truly not envious!!!

My family wears modest jewelry. My aunt and sister-in-law and cousins all had diamonds of under 1 carat. If I had been from a more flamboyant family, perhaps I would have been different. One gets used to what one grows up with. I think :-). Even now my taste runs to small, delicate, classic pieces. Only my new passion for high karat gold has led me to do wild things like put on a pair of dangling earrings instead of a pair of small pearl or diamond studs!

Deb
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So here is my perspective on her contributing. It depends on your personalities. BUT, she's one who is bound and determined to have a ring of X size with a setting of Y cost. You've laid the cards out for her. If she has $$ of her own. Then I say-- let her help out with it. Come to a reasonable budget together. If may mean you have to up your contibution another couple of thousand, and she may have to compromise on a couple of things. But it will be a symbol of your commitment to make things work, to get what you both want, together. I actuallly think it's romantic. Plus, if she is spoiled (which coming from a princess only child from affluent parents... she sounds like she is) having her contribute her money may make her take this seriously and make her appreciate it more. I nevr had to work for anything before, it was all handed to me and I just expected it to keep coming. And when it didn't... LOL, that was fun. But now, I make my own money and buy what I want as long as it's in the budget. And you know what? I personally appreciate it all much more.


But then, I could just be crazy. LOL.
 
Date: 5/20/2006 3:12:02 PM
Author: dolphingirl22
The center stone is .17 ct, probably the smallest one on PS.
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Nope. I beat that. Mine has two 1-point stones. Isn''t that two .01 stones? I would have loved a huge 1/3 carat or 1/4 carat ring, but didn''t repine :-). (Who knew the darned marriage was going to last for 30 years?)

Deb
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Well, I think compromise is a very good thing in a marriage! I personally do not believe in a lot of debt. We have no debt, actually, but we have been married a long time. But I think something as important as an engagement ring is one of the few things worth supplementing with a loan if desired. There is a lot of territory between $6000 and $20,000! I think maybe you both need to stop digging in your heels and reach an agreement of something between there, and you can either use wedding money, her money, or a loan/credit card to pay it off in the next year. I mean, it would be great if she was thrilled with the $6000 budget, but she''s not, and she probably can''t help it in the environment she is in. Plus, her family has social status that would probably influence her desire for a nicer ring. Spoiled? Probably. But I do understand her desire for a nice ring and I think you cannot understand it because many men don''t understand it (just as women may not understand a man''s love of power tools or golf clubs!).

This is one suggestion for a compromise. You can get a diamond that looks like a 1.5 ct but costs much less by looking for a 1.4-1.49 ct stone. They are hard to find, but I have a great example right now. I ordered a 1.44 H VS2 hearts and arrows from Dimend Scaasi and the stone was $9600. There is a big price jump once you reach 1.5, so it is very desirable to get a stone just under that mark. I happen to be returning this stone because I have decided to change to 1.3-1.39. I think this stone or one similar would be a great compromise in that it doesn''t cost much more than you were planning to spend, but it would give her the look of a 1.5. This one is really gorgeous, and I''ll tell you, after visting Tiffany''s today, I think the hearts and arrows stones we can get from these vendors are a bargain. The rings I tried on there today were $24-27,000 for a solitaire around 1.4-1.5, and the legacy I tried on was $40,000.

Good luck to you...I sincerely hope you can both give a little and be able to reach a satisfactory compromise! Hopefully she''s learned about that in law school, too!
 
I recently went through a similar thing with my boyfriend. I just graduated from a highly ranked law school in Chicago and know how it can screw up your priorities. In fact, when I walked into school last fall I overheard 1L''s saying that "hey, since they got into this great law school all they had to do now was not be in the bottom of the class and they could pretty much be assured of making 125k or more when they graduated "- talk about being a little out of touch with the rest of the world.

Anyway, I will be starting a job soon and my boyfriend has a decent paying job which we have been living off of while I was in school. I have massive student loans and our mortgage to pay but other than that we were debt free and were trying to stay that way. We thought we started out with a fairly large budget for my ring which he had been saving up for little by little for quite a while. I wanted a 1.5-2.0 carat ring and we started out with a budget of 15k for the diamond and 2-3k for the setting. Well, it turned out that once we started looking there was some sticker shock because we couldn''t get what I wanted (color, clarity, cut, etc) - which I know seems ridiculous but when you try to find one with a 65/65 or under table/depth those get expensive.

We had a talk and discussed getting what was in our price range now and upgrading later and not going into debt. However, I wanted a ring that was a good size and after talking with him he was adamant about me not upgrading it (which I decided I really didn''t want to do as well). I also don''t wear a lot of jewelry so this is kind of my end-all purchase, once in a lifetime ring. The jeweler brought a diamond in that was in our price range and one that was 9k more. I was going to settle on the smaller lesser quality one but when my boyfriend saw how nice the more expensive one was he told me that if I would really be happy with it, then we could get the more expensive one
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I felt ecstatic about getting this great diamond but also really bad about making him/us go into debt for it. I felt I was being a little selfish and that maybe I was also just trying to keep up with my friends from law school. Now that I''ve graduated and don''t see those huge E-rings everyday I''ve taken a step back and gotten more perspective. It really is about the person you''re marrying and not the size of the diamond. That said, I can see how your girlfriend is feeling wanting a bigger stone so she doesn''t feel out of place. We chose to go into debt for it cause it''s a once in a lifetime purchase and our income will only be increasing exponentially. Is going into debt for it right for everyone, certainly not. But, I can definitely relate to your girlfriends feelings because even though I know its about the man I''m marrying its also nice to know I won''t be looked down on by my other superficial friends for having a lesser quality ring than they have. And, if she is going to go to a firm where others have large stones and are superficial its going to be really hard to get her out of that mentality because she is going to have daily doses of large bling.

I can''t say what''s the right thing to do for you. Those posts above that are saying your girlfriend shouldn''t be so materialistic are true (and I really should try to be less materialistic as well) - but it''s one thing to say and another thing to do when everyone around you is materialistic and you are going to be judged daily by them. Good luck in your decision and don''t judge her to harshly.
 
Date: 5/20/2006 7:34:45 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
There is a lot of territory between $6000 and $20,000! I think maybe you both need to stop digging in your heels and reach an agreement of something between there, and you can either use wedding money, her money, or a loan/credit card to pay it off in the next year. I mean, it would be great if she was thrilled with the $6000 budget, but she''s not, and she probably can''t help it in the environment she is in.
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So true. It''s bringing up other issues obviously. Like whether it will be possible to "please her" over a lifetime .. if she''s so particular and has expensive tastes etc etc. It''s worth considering, but chances are if you picked her, most of the other girls you''d choose would have similar traits/goals/tastes etc. Good luck finding a completely non-materialistic lawyer! (hee hee - just kidding - kind of!)

I notice that you say you value a "new car" more. So ... priorities. You want what you want when you want it ALSO. "New Cars" are not a necessity either. But they are a visible status symbol you use every day -- like, um, an engagement ring. NOT THAT IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY -- but the housing stock is very, very low in "ideal land". Hard to live there.

I''m curious how she''d react to contributing. I think it could be a good compromise & get you both some of what you want. You have to let go of the "gift" idea of the engagement ring & think of it as a joint investment in your wedded future. She may want expensive things & life AND BE WILLING TO WORK FOR ''EM. That wouldn''t be such a bad deal for you after all, now would it!
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Hmmm tough call...

I agree with whoever said you both have to stop digging in your heels and you should both compromise.

Yes she is marrying you and not the ring. But the ring IS part of the equation, like it or not. And she DOES really want a larger ring. Can you afford a slightly larger stone? If she wants to chip in, fine...have her do that and it can be something you do together. Or agree to an upgrade in 5 years.

I doubt that the ring would be a make it or break it kind of thing for your relationship, in fact I would hope that it wouldn't be....so I guess the way I tend to look at it is...if she really really really wants something bigger than 1c and you can somehow squeeze a bit to make a compromise, you should. And she should compromise on her 'i want 2c' kind of thing too.

I agree she may have to compromise on color or clarity to get that...but again, it's a compromise. Maybe she needs to look at H SI instead of G VS. You could maybe get a 1.2c instead of a 1c. Or a 1.3 or similar. I had a G VS and went to a J SI and have been fine with it, sure it's a little different than what I had but I wanted size and couldn't compromise on the cut...so color and clarity went down..and it was fine. I was and am ecstatic with the modifications.

Anyway that's just my thoughts...I know my husband may not agree with spending thousands on diamonds, but he knows I love them and he tries to support them when we can...just like I support his hobbies too when we have extra cash. And if we can't have something, we talk about it and work it out so that we are both happy. In the end it's just about trying your hardest to make the other person happy within your means.

Lastly, to me this generation, and this day is very different from when our parents and similar got married. Couples are older now when they get married, or more educated, or more flush with cash than our parents were...having $6k to spend on a diamond is a large amount when tons of our parents had more like $1k or even $100! So for me the fact that another generation or two was different doesn't matter in today's world. Things ARE different now and you just have to work with what society throws at you and do what works for you both. Anyway, my thoughts. Good luck!!
 
Wow. I''m amazed by the results of the conversation you had with your gf. Having a background in higher education (and in education financing no less) I can only imagine how much debt you two will have when she gets out of law school. And you haven''t bought a home yet.

I keep going back to, this gf of yours needs her priorities sorted. I can''t help but be flabbergasted, and I''ve never been very good at being tactful, but since when is a woman entitled to expect a $15-20K ring? I think that considering your present situation in life the $6,000 budget is quite decent!

Maybe you should have a budget sit down with her. Lay out the expenses of the wedding, the cars you need, and you school expenses, the loan debt, everything on one column. The go to the next column and figure out where the income to pay for it is coming from. How much is she going to make working at daddy''s firm? How much do you make? What are your monthly expenses for food, housing, insurance, debt payments, etc?

Where is the money going to come from for the ring she expects? What is going to "give" in order to pay for it?

What else is she going to expect during married life that''s going to come as a sticker shock to you?
 
Maybe you could "compromise" on something like this from Signed Pieces. It has a lot of carat weight and is signifcantly less than $15-20K . . .

but if I were you, I''d stick to my guns on the $6K if you really feel the budget can''t take more, what with just starting out, getting married, the wedding costs, huge law school DEBT, no house, needing cars . . . etc.

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=4151
 
Date: 5/21/2006 12:48:36 AM
Author: portoar


but if I were you, I''d stick to my guns on the $6K if you really feel the budget can''t take more, what with just starting out, getting married, the wedding costs, huge law school DEBT, no house, needing cars . . . etc.
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portoar, I never read anywhere that said she''d have law school debt. There is a chance that her parents have paid for her and that may not be in the equation.

My thoughts. I think discussing your budget with her and laying it all out is a great idea. If you have 6K, which I think is a very nice budget, but she would like to get something a little bit more, either give her the option to chip in or wait a while until you guys can afford what she wants. I also love the idea of getting something from a PS vendor with a trade up policy if she''d be open to that. You said you wanted new cars and vacations. She may be willing to sacrifice a new car for a little bit more toward the ring and that''s where you all need to discuss long term goals, budgets, and reality. My hubby proposed with no ring. We went together and picked something out weeks later that worked with our budget and i even chipped in because I had the better job at that time. Almost 6 years later we are working towards an upgrade and since I''m a stay at home mom, he''s all on his own
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We''re having to wait and save and it will be a while yet because that is how life works and diamonds aren''t #1 on the priority list, especially once you have kids. Sounds like you love her, you guys just need to get the expectations to equal reality. She''s obviously a smart girl, I think she''ll understand once she gets it
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