Laying awake, worrying about all kinds of stuff

[gwendolyn]

Anothing "woe is me, I'm in an international relationship and don't know what to do" whinge:

I've been up since 5am (it's a little after 6 now), laying in bed thinking about stuff I have to do--mostly schoolwork, but my brain always circles back to the choice I have about where J and I will be living next year.

I say 'I' and not 'we' because, every time I ask him, he says, "oh, whichever you want, babe." Which is nice and all, but I need HELP making this decision! It's kind of a big deal, which country we'll be living in. I'm a teacher, and I'll need to start building tenure--not to say we couldn't live somewhere for a couple of years and then move, but then it'd be a bit like starting over job-wise (and salary-wise!), so that too would be a big decision.

Here's the dilemma, and I'm telling you all about it because everyone I talk to in real life (not that you're fake life?

) is biased rather heavily in one direction or the other (ie: my parents and friends from home want me to go back home, and J's family and friends want him to stay in the UK). I go back and forth on whether I'd be happy living here in England with J. After finishing my degree, I will be allowed to work here in the UK for a year, simply because I earned a degree here. I *hope* (although I don't know for sure) that it would be relatively easy to get an extended work permit from wherever I was teaching to be able to work longer than a year, based solely on my own merits.

If we move back to the US after I finish my degree, J would probably have to come over on a fiance visa, since he's been working for the family business for a few years, which pays ok considering his living costs (rent, food, transportation, etc.) are all taken care of--he lives at home, which is where the business is. However, once he moves out, he will not be able to make anywhere near enough money for us to be able to survive in the UK, and his parents aren't ready to hand over the business yet and don't have enough money to triple his salary (which is what it would take for him to make anything anywhere close to decent). So, he's currently working for them but looking for a better-paying job, and also at classes to take (IT sorts of classes) to get qualified to earn more money.

Since he doesn't have a career set up already, he doesn't fit any sort of niche in the job market, so the US (as far as I know) doesn't have a work visa that would work for him on his own merits; I think (but am not sure; it's been a while since I read up on all this) that, for him to have work permissions, he'd have to enter the country on a fiance visa, which puts a time limit on how long we can live in the US before getting married. If I remember it right (which I might not be), it is something like 9 months.

We've been long-distance from the start, with him in the UK and me in the US. Now we're long-distance with me in southern England and him in northern. This will be the first time we live together (after graduation), and I've told him that we can't get engaged until after we've lived together, because our time together (although more frequent than before) is still 'special' since we don't see each other all the time, and as such, our behaviour around each other is also 'special' or extra good.

I think, in my heart, I'd like to go back home after graduation, but I don't want to go home if the only way J can be there is because he's (in the government's eyes) engaged to me. I don't want there to be an external time limit of 9 months where, oh no, if we aren't married by then, he gets deported or something (not sure). I am also just not crazy about the idea of bringing him into the US with a fiance visa because (and maybe this is where I am especially nutty) I don't want him to feel like it's a done deal? At that point, we WOULDN'T be engaged because we hadn't lived together yet! But, if there's a piece of official paper that says that we are engaged--I don't know, I wouldn't want him to think that it was 100% sure we were getting married, and I'm afraid he might think that, even though I say I'm not comfortable being engaged until we've lived together.

So, it seems likely (at this moment, anyway) that I will suggest we stay here next year, so that there is no ticking bomb deadline as to when we have to be married by. If we do stay here, we NEED to move out of his hometown; he's never lived anywhere else, and he needs to experience other places, and also deal with some adjustment. If it's just me doing all the sacrificing and adjusting, I fear I might resent him a bit.

Also, it might be noteworthy just to mention that we have no money saved up currently for anything--an apartment, new/used furniture, a ring, a car--so having a time limit on the wedding would essentially mean there would be no wedding--not in the weddingy sense. We'd probably end up just going to a registry office/courtroom, and although I'm not big into weddings, that doesn't appeal to me at all, really.

Kudos to anyone who gets this far without cheating and skimming!!

I really need to learn to be less wordy... Oh well, even if no one replies, it felt good to get it out in writing.

So, what do you (yes, YOU) think I should do?

ETA: Wow, that took about half an hour to type up! I should really pass out cookies to anyone who reads the whole thing...

 

[surfgirl]

gwendolyn, I really like you, so I'm going to be straight with you hon...In all your posts, I never get the feeling that J is chomping at the bit to move forward at all. Now maybe I'm just misreading your past threads/posts, but he always seems quite lax about everything and it's always "whatever you want"...Is that correct or am I misreading? If it's correct, then I'd say you REALLY need to have a long chat with him about where your relationship is going and the details that MUST be hashed out NOW, not "whenever". You are right in thinking about your career first and it IS indeed very important to start off where you think you'll be staying the longest because there's just a lot of competition out there in the real job world these days. But he doesn't seem in a hurry to make any forward motion, at least that's how I read your posts. Have you really had a straight conversation with him about when you might get engaged and married, etc.? Do you know he's got/saving money for a ring? Do you see yourself living in the UK without him? If you stayed there and then broke up, would you see yourself staying there or "coming home"? And the fact that "coming home" = USA says a lot as well. "Home" is here, not there, at least not yet. You have some huge decisions to make in the coming months and you are right to start trying to decide on them now rather than fly by the seat of your pants.

Now having said the above, I've met quite a few Brit males and they all seem to have a rather discombobulated cadence in how the live life and how the conduct their relationships...maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe Pandora can weigh in on this? I'm just not hearing a definitive YES LET"S DO THIS from him in your posts...Am I misreading?

ETA: I just re read your entire post again (in it's entirety, do I get a prize for two read throughs?!?) and you seem to have indeed made a lot of sacrifices for your guy, and he's still living at home? You seem quite worldly compared to him and you're right that you two need to be a couple outside his little bubble of a world...

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I always believe when two people are on the same path, you both should be excited to discuss the future, and even more excited to put the plans into motion.

I, like surfgirl, think that for what reason he seems to be very non-chalant about the whole like. Now, I don''t personally think being carefree is a bad thing, but I do think that there are some topics that need to be seriously discussed with emotion---like, what the future holds for you and J as a couple!

As far as moving back to the US...if that is what will make you happy, then you should move home. I wouldn''t stay in another country for a man that I wasn''t seriously committed too (and when I say seriously, I mean engaged or married). While the idea of staying is romantic--it''s also a gamble since, as you said, moving around from job to job isn''t a good idea since you would like to establish tenure.

Now, getting J to the US can be tricky. You might want to research what is involved before pulling the trigger. I think that in order to get a work visa, he would need to be sponsered by a company. My DH has a good friend who lived in Canada and was able to come to the US on a work visa sponsered by his job--otherwise is was a *huge* sum of money.

Best of luck, please keep us posted!

Ash

 

[gwendolyn]

Wow, TWO read-throughs, surfgirl?! Your cookies are in the mail!

You're right to be picking up that he has a more laid-back pace than I do. This has nothing to do with us as a couple--he's more keen to get engaged and married than I am. He's said a few times that he would've proposed officially (he's done so jokingly a few times) by now if I hadn't said we had to wait to live together for me to be sure enough to say 'yes.'

At times I get frustrated because he does seem to take his time in situations where I would be making myself crazy to get things done. I don't feel like either of us is right; I'd like to be more laid-back, and he admits that sometimes he doesn't push himself as hard as he can to do things quickly. He is 3 1/2 years younger than I am (am about to be 30), and I've had more life experiences than he's had, both in the amount of places I've lived and how long I've been on my own. Some of it's personality differences, and some of it is environmental (possibly cultural as well?)--in his circle of family and friends, it's very common for people of both sexes to live at home until they are engaged or living with their partners just before getting engaged. Both his sisters lived at home until they were engaged, and all his single friends save one still live at home.

He's said many times that he's quite willing to move to the US, even though he tends to shy away from new situations. Recently, he's even said that he thinks it might be best for us to move back there, since I wouldn't have to start from scratch in terms of my teaching career (here in the UK, I have to earn QTS--qualified teaching status--even though I've got almost 10 years of various teaching experience back in the US; because I don't have British qualifications, they don't have to pay me as being qualified). It also might be easier for J to get an entry-level job in the US than it would be to get one here in the UK. I've gone to the Job Centre with him a few times to look for jobs, and many positions have obscure-looking certification requirements in order to apply for even really basic jobs, which is kind of frustrating to me because it seems really limiting.

I have a lot of student debt, so I can't afford to be (nor would I ever feel comfortable being) J's sugar momma. He knows this, and feels badly that he isn't more secure financially. I can't blame him for that, though; he's been working with the family business, which he was thinking he would take over, but the timing doesn't work. His parents aren't ready to retire in the foreseeable future, and we need more income, so he's got to leave it to do something else. He lives in a small town (another reason to move somewhere new!) which is really very lovely, but limiting in terms of job prospects. So as much as it may frustrate me at times that he hasn't found a job yet, he IS looking.

 

[surfgirl]

Well, it seems like moving back to the US might be the better option then? Gets you both out of his comfy environment and back onto your turf for a change. And you can make a fresh start together. But yeah, he''s got to make a decision and start making plans...now, not in 6 months. These things take time. Can he do some schooling in the US? I mean both to get him there more easily (without you being engaged), and to help him to get an entry into the US business scene? Do you or your family know anyone who can offer him a job to get him started off?

 

[TravelingGal]

Gwendolyn, you need to do some research girl! Are you familiar with Galateia on this forum? She had to go through a fiance visa herself. It is a pretty long process, and forget about 9 months after entry to get married....

YOU HAVE 90 DAYS.

Also, if he comes on a K-1 visa, he cannot leave. He can only come in on that visa ONCE. Do not make the same mistake that many others do...traveling outside the US for their honeymoon and then the spouse who is in on a fiance visa cannot return. I believe you must file for adjustment of status for permanent residency.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2994.html

 

[TravelingGal]

Oh, and as for trying to find people who can offer him a job in the U.S...I am not a H-1B visa expert, but I don''t believe it is that easy. The allocation of H1-B''s is taken quickly every year, and companies who even want them can''t get them in order to hire special talent from overseas. In other words, even if someone wanted to hire him in the US, they may not be able to get the visa.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:10:00 AM
Author: surfgirl
Well, it seems like moving back to the US might be the better option then? Gets you both out of his comfy environment and back onto your turf for a change. And you can make a fresh start together. But yeah, he''s got to make a decision and start making plans...now, not in 6 months. These things take time. Can he do some schooling in the US? I mean both to get him there more easily (without you being engaged), and to help him to get an entry into the US business scene? Do you or your family know anyone who can offer him a job to get him started off?

The kicker there is that schooling in the US is a lot more expensive than in the UK (for residents--not for me because I''m an international student), and we''re already going to be suffering from my student loans. The plan is that J wants to get a degree in the future, but unless one of us wins the lottery (or he goes to school instead of us buying a ring/getting married outside a courthouse/buying a house), it''s not happening in the near future.

Another consideration is that we''d probably have to buy two cars when we go to the US--I won''t have much control over where I get work, and he won''t have that many options open, and the likelihood of us being able to carpool is *probably* (although not necessarily) minimal. In the UK, public transportation is a viable option, especially if we move to a more urban area (which would be the plan). At first I thought J might feel a bit squeamish at the thought of driving in the US (he only just got his UK driving license 10 months ago), but I mentioned my concern about him having to drive and he said it wouldn''t bother him (see, the good side of the laid-back attitude!

).

I know he doesn''t want to make a decision FOR me because he doesn''t want me to feel trapped here in the UK, which I appreciate. I also think he''s going back and forth about it too, for different reasons--I think he''d like to stay in the UK because it''s home to him (like the US is home to me), but I think he thinks I''d be happier back with my family and friends, and in a place where more job opportunities might be out there for him. So I suspect that''s part of the reason he''s reluctant to firmly side with one decision or the other too. The last time we talked about this (a couple of days ago), he said to me, "Babe, to be with you, I will live anywhere. Even France." (He''s so English.

)

I am not sure if I could set him up with a job before we would arrive in the US. I probably could get him at least *something*, a while-he-finds-something-else job....for four years, I worked on the weekends at a coffeeshop/bookstore (which I loved doing!), and talked to the owner about my predicament once with J and working in the US, and he said that he could set J up with a job there for me. It wouldn''t be much money, but it would be something, until he found a better-paying gig. Hmmm....*strokes chin*

It''s his job to look up the visa info and to scope out US want ads to get an idea of what he thinks he''d like to do, what (if any) additional qualifications he''d need to do it, and how much it pays. He is currently also working 6 or 7 days a week, 9-6:30 doing manual labour-type work for the campsite (that''s the family business--they do all their own construction and landscaping and stuff), so that work plus the job search to find a better-paying job to save up for when we move in together is what''s got most of his attention. BUT this is the sort of thing that can''t wait, so I will tell him that I am leaning towards going back to the US and that he needs to do his research.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:19:46 AM
Author: TravelingGal
Gwendolyn, you need to do some research girl! Are you familiar with Galateia on this forum? She had to go through a fiance visa herself. It is a pretty long process, and forget about 9 months after entry to get married....


YOU HAVE 90 DAYS.



Also, if he comes on a K-1 visa, he cannot leave. He can only come in on that visa ONCE. Do not make the same mistake that many others do...traveling outside the US for their honeymoon and then the spouse who is in on a fiance visa cannot return. I believe you must file for adjustment of status for permanent residency.


http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2994.html

90 days? Oh, hells no, that''s not happening. Last time I read up on this visa stuff it a) gave me a huge headache and b) was about 2 years ago. I thought it was quite a bit longer than that. Well, so much for the US idea, then.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:30:47 AM
Author: gwendolyn

I am not sure if I could set him up with a job before we would arrive in the US. I probably could get him at least *something*, a while-he-finds-something-else job....for four years, I worked on the weekends at a coffeeshop/bookstore (which I loved doing!), and talked to the owner about my predicament once with J and working in the US, and he said that he could set J up with a job there for me. It wouldn''t be much money, but it would be something, until he found a better-paying gig. Hmmm....*strokes chin*

No, you probably couldn''t...not legally anyway, and you really don''t want to be doing anything illegal. To get a job, he needs a work permit (which I don''t know much about - all I know is my cousin married an Aussie girl already here on a tourist visa and she could not work until she got a work permit while her AOS was in process). Basically Gwendolyn, he NEEDS a visa. And don''t mess with the government. For most of us mere mortals, if we screw up, we are banned from the country for a set period of time.

 

[gwendolyn]

Ahh, I was getting it confused with the UK fiance visa, which is 6 months (which thankfully I don''t need since I can stay here on my own--that doesn''t come with work permission): http://www.workpermit.com/uk/fiance.htm

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:36:44 AM
Author: TravelingGal
No, you probably couldn''t...not legally anyway, and you really don''t want to be doing anything illegal. To get a job, he needs a work permit (which I don''t know much about - all I know is my cousin married an Aussie girl already here on a tourist visa and she could not work until she got a work permit while her AOS was in process). Basically Gwendolyn, he NEEDS a visa. And don''t mess with the government. For most of us mere mortals, if we screw up, we are banned from the country for a set period of time.

Ok, ok! I''m not trying to break the law, I just have a crappy memory!

I know he almost definitely can''t get a work permit in the US because he isn''t a specialist in any field. Schooling MAY be an option, but again, financially that doesn''t seem like a good idea.

Well, it''s much easier to make a choice when there''s no choice to make.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:33:18 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 2/17/2008 2:19:46 AM
Author: TravelingGal
Gwendolyn, you need to do some research girl! Are you familiar with Galateia on this forum? She had to go through a fiance visa herself. It is a pretty long process, and forget about 9 months after entry to get married....


YOU HAVE 90 DAYS.



Also, if he comes on a K-1 visa, he cannot leave. He can only come in on that visa ONCE. Do not make the same mistake that many others do...traveling outside the US for their honeymoon and then the spouse who is in on a fiance visa cannot return. I believe you must file for adjustment of status for permanent residency.


http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2994.html

90 days? Oh, hells no, that''s not happening. Last time I read up on this visa stuff it a) gave me a huge headache and b) was about 2 years ago. I thought it was quite a bit longer than that. Well, so much for the US idea, then.

Nope. It has always been 90 days as long as I have been looking at it (which was at least 4-5 years ago.) I know you are saying that your bf needs to do his homework, but you need to do yours too. I''m not trying to be a downer here. I don''t know the UK rules, but I can tell you that the U.S. doesn''t give a rat''s a** about your relationship. You need to apply, follow the rules and jump through the hoops. They only know how to look at how the i''s are dotted and t''s are crossed. Immigrantion to the U.S. doesn''t need to break a relationship, but it CAN make or break it depending on how much homework you do.

As I said, Galateia has gone through the process. Onedrop''s hubby also came through on a fiance visa. TGuy came through on a Diversity Visa, which unfortunately if your man was born in the UK, he is not eligible for. If he by any chance was born in the republic of Ireland, he is eligible.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:40:25 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 2/17/2008 2:36:44 AM
Author: TravelingGal
No, you probably couldn''t...not legally anyway, and you really don''t want to be doing anything illegal. To get a job, he needs a work permit (which I don''t know much about - all I know is my cousin married an Aussie girl already here on a tourist visa and she could not work until she got a work permit while her AOS was in process). Basically Gwendolyn, he NEEDS a visa. And don''t mess with the government. For most of us mere mortals, if we screw up, we are banned from the country for a set period of time.

Ok, ok! I''m not trying to break the law, I just have a crappy memory!

I know he almost definitely can''t get a work permit in the US because he isn''t a specialist in any field. Schooling MAY be an option, but again, financially that doesn''t seem like a good idea.

Well, it''s much easier to make a choice when there''s no choice to make.

LOL, I didn''t think you were trying to break the law...but I''m thinking if you''re serious about this guy you may want to look into this stuff sooner than later! It''s horrible to decide he''s the one for you, and realize it just ain''t gonna happen because of immigration! At least you are already over there!!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:41:03 AM
Author: TravelingGal
Nope. It has always been 90 days as long as I have been looking at it (which was at least 4-5 years ago.) I know you are saying that your bf needs to do his homework, but you need to do yours too. I''m not trying to be a downer here. I don''t know the UK rules, but I can tell you that the U.S. doesn''t give a rat''s a** about your relationship. You need to apply, follow the rules and jump through the hoops. They only know how to look at how the i''s are dotted and t''s are crossed. Immigrantion to the U.S. doesn''t need to break a relationship, but it CAN make or break it depending on how much homework you do.


As I said, Galateia has gone through the process. Onedrop''s hubby also came through on a fiance visa. TGuy came through on a Diversity Visa, which unfortunately if your man was born in the UK, he is not eligible for. If he by any chance was born in the republic of Ireland, he is eligible.

TG, I wasn''t saying you weren''t correct; obviously you were. I''m saying *I* remembered it incorrectly. *I* got it mixed up in my head with the UK fiance visa, which is in months, not days. *I* feel like an idiot for not checking it myself before posting, but honestly, I thought I remembered it was a matter of months. I WAS WRONG. I get it. Thank you.

Obviously you don''t know me from a hole in the wall, but I''m not the sort of person who would show up in the US and THEN figure out all the legal crap. I got 4 hours of sleep last night because I''ve got a ton of stuff going on, this whole where-to-live-for-the-next-X-years-of-my-life being just one of them. I get that you don''t want me to make a huge mistake by going on my assumptions, and I appreciate that. But this was a topic generated out of the confusion from a sleepless night, not the exact plans for the rest of my life.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:43:41 AM
Author: TravelingGal
LOL, I didn''t think you were trying to break the law...but I''m thinking if you''re serious about this guy you may want to look into this stuff sooner than later! It''s horrible to decide he''s the one for you, and realize it just ain''t gonna happen because of immigration! At least you are already over there!!

Like I said, I did look into it, once upon a time about 2 years ago, when we first started talking about marriage and how the %@£* it could possibly work in our situation. My brain has a funny way of remembering things sometimes--I often gets 9''s and 6''s mixed up, and I think at the time I was itching to get out of the country (which is why I subsequently did for grad school!), so I remembered the months part of the UK visa rather than the horrible DAYS part of the US one. Also at the time, J and I thought his parents would be retiring soon and handing the business to him, so I think it was assumed that if we wanted to give it a serious try, I''d have to be willing to move to him since the family business is there.

Gah. This is both kind of disappointing and sort of liberating. I don''t have to choose, which is good. But...I also don''t get to go home either, at least not soon (or not with J, if things don''t work out, which of course I hope they do).

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:49:30 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 2/17/2008 2:41:03 AM
Author: TravelingGal
Nope. It has always been 90 days as long as I have been looking at it (which was at least 4-5 years ago.) I know you are saying that your bf needs to do his homework, but you need to do yours too. I''m not trying to be a downer here. I don''t know the UK rules, but I can tell you that the U.S. doesn''t give a rat''s a** about your relationship. You need to apply, follow the rules and jump through the hoops. They only know how to look at how the i''s are dotted and t''s are crossed. Immigrantion to the U.S. doesn''t need to break a relationship, but it CAN make or break it depending on how much homework you do.


As I said, Galateia has gone through the process. Onedrop''s hubby also came through on a fiance visa. TGuy came through on a Diversity Visa, which unfortunately if your man was born in the UK, he is not eligible for. If he by any chance was born in the republic of Ireland, he is eligible.

TG, I wasn''t saying you weren''t correct; obviously you were. I''m saying *I* remembered it incorrectly. *I* got it mixed up in my head with the UK fiance visa, which is in months, not days. *I* feel like an idiot for not checking it myself before posting, but honestly, I thought I remembered it was a matter of months. I WAS WRONG. I get it. Thank you.

Obviously you don''t know me from a hole in the wall, but I''m not the sort of person who would show up in the US and THEN figure out all the legal crap. I got 4 hours of sleep last night because I''ve got a ton of stuff going on, this whole where-to-live-for-the-next-X-years-of-my-life being just one of them. I get that you don''t want me to make a huge mistake by going on my assumptions, and I appreciate that. But this was a topic generated out of the confusion from a sleepless night, not the exact plans for the rest of my life.

Honey, I think you need to step back and take a breather. I didn''t take it that you were trying to prove me wrong or that you were saying I wasn''t correct. I was trying to clarify that they hadn''t changed the laws since I remember because it certainly would be a bummer if they had.

I don''t know you from a hole in the wall, so at the end of the day it''s your life. I obviously don''t thnk you''d do anything to break the law, and I am sure you would research it at some point.

All I am saying is that since you ARE thinking about what you are trying to do next few years with this guy, just understand that the government is going to take years off your life and a lot of time in the meanwhile if you try to get him here. I am saying it as someone who has been through it, and honestly I wouldn''t wish it upon anyone. If anything, you have my utmost sympathies.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:53:54 AM
Author: gwendolyn

Date: 2/17/2008 2:43:41 AM
Author: TravelingGal
LOL, I didn't think you were trying to break the law...but I'm thinking if you're serious about this guy you may want to look into this stuff sooner than later! It's horrible to decide he's the one for you, and realize it just ain't gonna happen because of immigration! At least you are already over there!!

Like I said, I did look into it, once upon a time about 2 years ago, when we first started talking about marriage and how the %@£* it could possibly work in our situation. My brain has a funny way of remembering things sometimes--I often gets 9's and 6's mixed up, and I think at the time I was itching to get out of the country (which is why I subsequently did for grad school!), so I remembered the months part of the UK visa rather than the horrible DAYS part of the US one. Also at the time, J and I thought his parents would be retiring soon and handing the business to him, so I think it was assumed that if we wanted to give it a serious try, I'd have to be willing to move to him since the family business is there.

Gah. This is both kind of disappointing and sort of liberating. I don't have to choose, which is good. But...I also don't get to go home either, at least not soon (or not with J, if things don't work out, which of course I hope they do).

Well, I hope it DOES work out for you. I always am so excited when LDRs, especially international ones somehow manage to work out. I have spent many sleepless nights, the same as you. I've read visa forums until I couldn't keep my eyes open, they stung so horrifically.

It's a terrible feeling to love someone and wonder if you can be together. Like I said, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. I almost always want to scream "don't do it!" when I hear someone just start to venture into the world of international LDR.

 

[gwendolyn]

Well, on the bright side, when I explain to my mother that I''ll be in England for at least another year, I''ll have a very logical reason for it so she (hopefully) won''t feel abandoned like she did when I left for grad school!

Very glad I practiced my driving when visiting J last week; looks like I will be needing a UK driving license after all!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 2:59:27 AM
Author: TravelingGal
Well, I hope it DOES work out for you. I always am so excited when LDRs, especially international ones somehow manage to work out. I have spent many sleepless nights, the same as you. I''ve read visa forums until I couldn''t keep my eyes open, they stung so horrifically.


It''s a terrible feeling to love someone and wonder if you can be together. Like I said, I wouldn''t wish it upon anyone. I almost always want to scream ''don''t do it!'' when I hear someone just start to venture into the world of international LDR.

Thank you!! I know exactly what you mean. Most of my friends at home (before I went into the details of reality) thought it was SOOO ROMANTIC to be in an international relationship. Oh, the cynical laughter that ensued!!

I''m sorry for getting a bit snappy with you just before. I''m overly sensitive even on my best days, but I haven''t been sleeping much so I''m even more emotional than my norm.

And, maybe this won''t make sense, but I was also sort of deliberately not looking up the visa info myself because it was up to J to do, and since he''s generally so laid back about everything, I try not to jump the gun and do it before he has a chance because I''m obsessing about things and he isn''t. I honestly thought that if it wasn''t 9 months, it was 6 months--clearly VERY wrong for the US visa, but I didn''t think it was a big enough deal (as I remembered it) to warrant doing something that is (was, I guess) J''s responsibility. If we don''t delegate who does what, I end up doing all the research into this stuff, and I just don''t have the time with all the school work I have to do.

Anyway, I think the unpleasant surprise has worn off and I feel ok to deal with it. Don''t know how my mom will take it (she lost her mom in July and kind of flipped out when I left for England in September, saying she felt like she''d never see me again), but I''ll tell her I''ll come home for Christmas this year and maybe that will make it better, for both of us.

 

[TravelingGal]

Don''t worry, I didn''t take it personally. I have left many heads chewed off in my wake when I was going through it so I DO understand. Lots of crying and hyperventilating too...and I am not the type to do either very often.

And yes...people don''t get that international LDR is way more of a headache than it is romantic...although those visits ARE darn good, aren''t they?

Best of luck to you. And so I don''t stay up with my head spinning, I think I am going to head off to bed!!

 

[chocolatefudge]

gwendolyn, have I read corrcetly that you completed your teaching degree here in the UK? I am also a teacher in the UK and as far as I was aware you can''t just go to America and teach as the curriculum etc is so different and you would basically have to re-train! Were you aware of this?

Hope you feel better soon

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 5:12:36 AM
Author: chocolatefudge
gwendolyn, have I read corrcetly that you completed your teaching degree here in the UK? I am also a teacher in the UK and as far as I was aware you can''t just go to America and teach as the curriculum etc is so different and you would basically have to re-train! Were you aware of this?


Hope you feel better soon

I have a teaching degree in the US already; I''m getting master''s degree in the UK, but not a PGCE.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Oh right. Well does it work the other way then? Can you teach here with a teaching degree from US? I don''t mean this to come across meanly, I am genuinely interested as I don''t know the answer myself.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Oh my goodness 90 days....

That isn''t good.

Does this mean you are leaning more towards the UK? Can you always come back in the future if things work out between you two?

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Well it seems like you two have a lot of different options, and I''m not sure there is one best answer.

I think staying in the UK for 1 year, without necessarily a plan to spend the rest of your life there is a good idea. I mean really, I don''t know all that much about your 1st year as setting up tenure or what not but in the end 1 year is 12months. It may sound like a significant delay, but it passes so quickly, as long as it''s only 1 year, I think it''s worth the time to find out if the two of you should definitely get married or not.

Then you two can decide US or UK. Even for this one year however, you aren''t the only one to make sacrifices, or you shouldn''t be. Perhaps in this one year, J should look into getting a better degree or perhaps working outside of his family business to test out what life might be like without the family at home or in his everyday work?

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 2/17/2008 8:13:57 AM
Author: chocolatefudge
Oh right. Well does it work the other way then? Can you teach here with a teaching degree from US? I don''t mean this to come across meanly, I am genuinely interested as I don''t know the answer myself.

Yup, but the first year I *may* have to take a pay cut because I don''t have QTS (qualified teacher''s/teaching? status, for anyone curious what we''re talking about)--I''ve gotten a hundred different answers from a hundred different people. Apparently almost every area has its own set up for schools and what they pay and whether or not they take OTT (overseas trained teachers) and pay them as QTS teachers or not.

What I WANT to do is find a place at a special school, or a lifelong learning center for people with more serious disabilities and earn my QTS while working there. Some random people I''ve met said that can''t be done, while my supervisor here at school says it can. So, I just have to talk to as many schools as I can to get info on how THEY operate. Once I have QTS, my pay goes up.

Yeah, the curriculum is different, but kids are still kids, and what makes a good teacher in the US is essentially the same as what makes a good teacher in the UK or Australia. Apparently one of the ways some London boroughs get their teachers is by importing them direction from Australia, with no need of QTS or a PGCE or anything. So, there are job out there for me; I just have to find them (preferably outside of London).

 

[gwendolyn]

Thanks for the input, ladies! Yeah, it''s kind of a bummer because this year has been pretty rough on me but it will work out for the best, I hope.

Yes, one of the options is definitely to stay here for a year (maybe two if I like it more than I do now), see if we work out, then move to the US and get married, or get married and then move to the US. I''ve always wanted to elope anyway, so this seems like a nice way to work that in!

J and I talked early this morning. I told him what I''d found out, and explained that, to me, it meant the US was out of the question, as I didn''t want to rush into marriage when I wasn''t sure about us since we haven''t lived together yet. He told me that he would have been ok with marrying me that soon, and I said that was sweet, but that I wouldn''t be ready, and he respected that. I told him there would be some danger of me resenting him because I am doing a lot of the sacrificing, so he was going to have to step up with his contributions to our relationship''s future and deal with the fact that I definitely do NOT want us to be living in his hometown next year. I''ve said that before, but I wanted to make sure there was no question. He said he understood all of that (we''ve talked about this stuff before) and that he was going to work as hard as he could to do whatever it takes.

Which leads us to the part I hadn''t said before...

I also told him that I was still going to apply to teach in the US, as well as in the UK. I said that I wanted to do this because I don''t want to feel trapped into staying in the UK--who knows, maybe I''ll change my mind and be ok with a 3 month whirlwind trial and wedding? I seriously doubt it, but who knows. But the main reason I said I was going to still apply in the US was in case he didn''t do the things he said he would do to save up for us living together in July. As I''ve said, he has been looking for a new job to be able to save more money for us, but he hasn''t been obsessing over it like I have (or like I almost think he should be). If he is so laid back that he never gets around to getting a new job, then I''m not staying with him--he will stay here (he can''t come back to the US without me), and I will go back home. I said I didn''t think that would happen because I want to believe he will come through for me, but in case he doesn''t, I have a plan to take care of myself. He said that was fair enough, but that he wasn''t going to let me down.

 

[bee*]

Hugs Gwendolyn! I think that it''s great that you spoke with him this morning and I also think that it''s a good idea to keep your options open on your job. It sounds like he might need a little fire under his ass to get him going

That''s a pity that he can''t move to the US as that''s what I would have suggested. He definitely needs to move out of his house though if you''re going to stay in the US with him.

 

[Pandora II]

Hi Gwendolyn,

As Surfgirl said, I really like you and so I''m going to be very honest about a few things...

First, it seems to me that you and J come from somewhat different backgrounds. He is very small-town English, which is a very different outlook on life than someone who had done the whole university/big city job thing is. This isn''t to say that it''s a problem, but I think your living together before marriage is a VERY good idea. I think you also need to know if you could be happy and fit in with a lifestyle that you might find less challenging mentally and intellectually than you are used to. You struck me as an exceptionally bright girl and while J may be equally bright, you are likely be in a less than cosmopolitan place with a very small-town mentality. That can be great for holidays and fleeting visits, but it''s a different thing when it is your daily existence.

A lot of people think that americans and english are the same because we all speak the same language, but there are a lot of cultural differences that you need to be happy living with.

It also seems that you don''t have a good group of friends that you can rely on over here yet. The English can be a bit standoffish at first, which can make it more difficult at the beginning, but I think you might feel happier once you get more settled and have a more ''normal'' life than you do at college.

On the work side, I would really recommend looking at private schools - there is far more flexibility on qualifications. We had loads of Australian and American teachers who just came for a year - some stayed on longer as well. What is your teaching subject? You can often also get accomodation as part of the package, especially at boarding schools - you may have to do some ''house-mother'' stuff like working the odd weekend or evening, doing theatre stuff etc. Most of my teachers really enjoyed it. (You also get much smaller class-sizes - say 15 students, and they are all VERY well-behaved!)

For J, has he considered something like the police, fire-service or the NHS (paramedic/ambulance)? What qualifications does he have? A-levels?

You would then have access to ''key-worker'' housing if you wanted to buy a property. If you are on a low-income the council will house you asnyway - at less than market rents, and you can get a lot of support that way.

Is there a reason you need to go to Newcastle, or could you move elsewhere in the UK.

As to what Surfgirl asks about English men, I think that there is quite a big class difference over here than there is in the USA. It''s certainly less easy to move from one to the other - although it is improving. Back when I went to university in 1990, there were far less people making that choice, and they tended to come from the middle and upper-classes. A lot of working class students didn''t feel that ''university was for them'', even though they had the grades to go etc. It was just a way of thinking.

Without a degree in the UK it''s hard to move up the career ladder - you can, but you start with a disadvantage - and now there are so many people with a degree that they take jobs that don''t ask for graduate qualifications, as there aren''t so many jobs around.

Coming from a small village myself, we were very much divided into the university/career lot and the ''live at home and work for the family business'' lot and the two groups rarely mixed. I have noticed less ambition in the latter and more of a drift along kind of mentality. They also suffer a lot more when put outside their comfort zone. Obviously these are sweeping generalizations and there are many exceptions on both sides.

I would be interested to know how much effort J has been putting into making your relationship more feasible economically since your relationship became serious. I get the impression that you are making a lot more of the running and worrying far more about the practicalities of the relationship than he is.

I think if his parents aren''t thinking of retiring and giving him the business, then it''s time for him to cut the apron strings and start planning a life where he can support a family on his own.

I really hope that I haven''t said anything to offend you here - or cast any aspersions on J or your relationship - but I think a lot of your worries would be assuaged if you knew that he would be in as flexible a situation work-wise as you could be.

As I said in another thread, If you ever fancy a trip to London, I''d be very happy to meet up, do some bling window-shopping and have a chat!