Laying awake, worrying about all kinds of stuff

[galeteia]

First, a K visa, known as a 'spousal', 'fiance', or 'family' visa depending on the type, permits the non-US party to enter the US with permission to file for AOS (Adjustment of Status, aka greencard, aka permission to live and work in the US as a Resident) once they get there.

You asked what would happen if you moved to the UK, did you mean move to the US? If you arrived in the airport and he was identified as your husband and didn't have a K visa in his hand, he'd be denied entry and shipped back to the UK.

I think back in the day marrying a USC gave you de facto citizenship but times have changed.

The some of the fees include: the Petition, ($170) the Visa fee ($131) and the AOS (over 1k!). That doesn't sound like a lot, but there is also the Medical ($200+), multiple passport photos, xpresspost mailing fees for everything, travel costs to the only physicians allowed to do the medical, missing vaccinations, travel costs to the Consulate for your interview, lodging the night before the interview, police check, long version of the birth certificate, notary fees for the copies of things that have to be notarized, I had to get a passport, prints of photos of us together, everything added up.

In my case, I stupidly sent in the police check with the petition instead of waiting until my interview, and I had to get my medical done twice. Proper planning and being glued to Visa Journey will stop you from making similar mistakes.

If you want to get married first in the UK, your marriage license should be recognized by the US, but you still have to get a K visa before he can enter the country. Think of the visa as proof your hubby is allowed in the country and allowed to ask the government to let him stay.

If you are fine with getting full-on married before you file, then I'd definitely recommend Direct Consular Filing since you live in the UK, because that is sooo much faster. As in, a year faster than a K visa.

As for documentation, it must show you've had facetime with your hubby within the last 2 years. If you have proof that you kids live together (like joint bank accounts, or whatever it was you planned to have) that will be plenty. Phone records, emails to one another, IM chat logs, registered together at hotels, basically anything that proves you aren't a mail-order bride.

Are you in the UK on a student visa? Your status in the UK will affect how you can file.


Edit: For our 'paper marriage' we are going to explain to the Judge that we plan on having a full-on wedding later and that we'd prefer to keep vows to a minimum as we don't want to spoil the moment when we do say vows in front of our families. What we're hoping for is swearing under oath that we are who our ID says we are, that we wish to get married, then a signing of the license and the judge announces we are legally married. We'll probably then squee and jump up and down and hug one another.

 

[gwendolyn]

What''s the AOS? He''d only need to be formally recognized as my husband if we''re living and working in the US, right? Like, if we see my family for Christmas, he can just come in like normal as a visitor, I assume?

So, if everything costs so much and takes so much time, it looks like I shouldn''t get my hopes on going back to the US even after another year here.

I wish this whole thing didn''t make me feel so trapped; I absolutely detest that feeling. I''m going to have to remember that it''s not the relationship itself (as in, what''s between J and I) that''s making me feel that way, otherwise I might not stick it out.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 2/22/2008 4:49:33 AM
Author: gwendolyn
What''s the AOS? He''d only need to be formally recognized as my husband if we''re living and working in the US, right? Like, if we see my family for Christmas, he can just come in like normal as a visitor, I assume?


So, if everything costs so much and takes so much time, it looks like I shouldn''t get my hopes on going back to the US even after another year here.

I wish this whole thing didn''t make me feel so trapped; I absolutely detest that feeling. I''m going to have to remember that it''s not the relationship itself (as in, what''s between J and I) that''s making me feel that way, otherwise I might not stick it out.

AOS: Adjustment Of Status. As I mentioned, that''s what you file once you are allowed into the country via a K visa. A K visa lets you in with "Intent To Immigrate" meaning they know you are pre-cleared to file for AOS. AOS gets you a greencard and the permission to work and live in the US.

If you are married and you want to visit your family in the US, there is a high chance he may be denied entry to the US, unless you can prove ''ties'' to the UK, such as a rental/lease/mortgage agreement, letter from his employer saying he''s a dead man if he doesn''t come back and fulfil his employment contract, or letter from school if he''s a student, basically anything that proves he must return to the UK when your visit is done.

Please do remember you have options. I asked before what status you have in the UK, are you on a student visa? When you are working for the year after school, will you have a work visa? This is the most important information right now.

If you are not there as a student, you CAN file for DCF Direct Consular Filing, which is hella faster and easier. Probaby cheaper too, since you only have to go through half the crap. From what I can tell, it more or less skips the whole K visa process and gives him his greencard basically right away, free to enter the US with you and work right away.

Also from what I''ve researched for you, London''s Consulate does provide DCF service, but you two will have to be married, and you cannot have "Temporary Status" i.e. a Student.

I sympathize with the trapped feeling, believe me, but you have more options than most. If you go through this process, you have to be certain that this person is worth it. I was 100% sure that I wanted to be with my FF no matter how strenuous the process was or how long we''d be separated, even as I was 100% sure I wasn''t ready to get married yet. We didn''t have other options, so rather than flipping out constantly over the prospect of getting "Married" so soon I just remind myself that the license I will sign is my declaration in good faith that I want to marry this man, someday.

If you''re a fan of old UK traditions, think of it as a modern-day ''handfasting''. Same intent.

I have often commented that this is like a gauntlet of fire for a relationship, but you have the unusual benefit of being able to physically be with your partner/see him often during the process, a luxury most people can''t have. If he is worth it, you can find a way through.

 

[gwendolyn]

Sorry, I thought I answered your question, but maybe I forgot: yes, I'm currently on a student visa for my year at grad school at Cambridge. My course ends in July, I don't officially graduate until October, and my student visa runs out in January '09. On this student visa, I am allowed to work up to 20 hours/week (due to my school workload, I only work 2).

Once I finish my course, I am allowed to enter something called the international graduates scheme (IGS), which gives me a work visa for a year: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/igs/ Since this also has a time limit, I assume it also has "temporary status", so I'm guessing I won't have indefinite leave to remain until, while working next year, I get my employer to file for a regular work visa for me...which would put me at being here 2+ years (in other words 3, since I'm a teacher and you can't really up and leave in the middle of the school year).

I really need to stop replying to this topic when I've had very little sleep because I'm afraid it's making me appear quite thick, but I was wondering something else: when discussing the K visa, you mentioned the fees you had to pay to conduct interviews and whatnot. If we are in the UK, but planning on coming over to the US, when and where do these interviews take place? Do we have to find a US consulate in the UK and have them done before we enter the US, or do we have a certain period of time in which to conduct them after we enter the US with the intent to immigrate? It seems like it would have to be the former, if the immigration folks would need to see our approve K visa, but I am not sure.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure of our relationship yet. If I was, I think this would be a lot easier. There are some things about our relationship that only time will tell, and I hate the fact that the only way (apparently) to wait and see how things unfold is to essentially sign over to being here for at least another year. I don't want to start building roots here; it's nice, very beautiful, but a lot of the locals here in Cam are quite hostile, so I've not grown very attached to the place. And the more I learn about how long/expensive all these processes are, the more it looks like, if we get it all done in a year, we'll be superheros or something--money and the marriage timeline were going to be tight even before finding out it's essentially going to take twice as long as I'd thought to clear all the hurdles.

It'd be nice if he'd show some initiative with helping look all this stuff up. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one researching, the only one worried about how long, complicated and expensive this process will be, the only one feeling sad because I'm leaving all my family and friends back home. Feels kind of one-sided at the moment.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 2/23/2008 5:05:05 AM
Author: gwendolyn
Sorry, I thought I answered your question, but maybe I forgot: yes, I'm currently on a student visa for my year at grad school at Cambridge. My course ends in July, I don't officially graduate until October, and my student visa runs out in January '09. On this student visa, I am allowed to work up to 20 hours/week (due to my school workload, I only work 2).

Once I finish my course, I am allowed to enter something called the international graduates scheme (IGS), which gives me a work visa for a year: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/igs/ Since this also has a time limit, I assume it also has 'temporary status', so I'm guessing I won't have indefinite leave to remain until, while working next year, I get my employer to file for a regular work visa for me...which would put me at being here 2+ years (in other words 3, since I'm a teacher and you can't really up and leave in the middle of the school year).

I really need to stop replying to this topic when I've had very little sleep because I'm afraid it's making me appear quite thick, but I was wondering something else: when discussing the K visa, you mentioned the fees you had to pay to conduct interviews and whatnot. If we are in the UK, but planning on coming over to the US, when and where do these interviews take place? Do we have to find a US consulate in the UK and have them done before we enter the US, or do we have a certain period of time in which to conduct them after we enter the US with the intent to immigrate? It seems like it would have to be the former, if the immigration folks would need to see our approve K visa, but I am not sure.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure of our relationship yet. If I was, I think this would be a lot easier. There are some things about our relationship that only time will tell, and I hate the fact that the only way (apparently) to wait and see how things unfold is to essentially sign over to being here for at least another year. I don't want to start building roots here; it's nice, very beautiful, but a lot of the locals here in Cam are quite hostile, so I've not grown very attached to the place. And the more I learn about how long/expensive all these processes are, the more it looks like, if we get it all done in a year, we'll be superheros or something--money and the marriage timeline were going to be tight even before finding out it's essentially going to take twice as long as I'd thought to clear all the hurdles.

It'd be nice if he'd show some initiative with helping look all this stuff up. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one researching, the only one worried about how long, complicated and expensive this process will be, the only one feeling sad because I'm leaving all my family and friends back home. Feels kind of one-sided at the moment.

Ooo, "Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one researching [...]" I feel you, girl. This was a frustration I knew well, and resulted in as close to an ultimatium as we've gotten. At one point, I stated that he had to start pulling his weight and participating in this process. He made it clear that he was overwhelmed by the details and was making X, Y and Z efforts, but that he preferred I digest it for him and tell him what to do.

So, I agreed that if he was going to place the lion's share of the burden on me because these kinds of details were not his forte, when I say jump and how high, he jumps. RIGHT FREAKING THEN. When I say X has to be filled out and sent, I mean the NEXT BUSINESS DAY, not look at the form next week. If I light a fire until his keister, I'd better not be smelling burnt pants before I see results.

You will have to have non-temporary status (I think a work visa gives you this) to file DCF, although you still have K visa options.

Interview questions: You file the petition, it's granted, then he files a visa request with his US Consulate, in your case London. They send him stuff, he sends them stuff, then they give him an interview appointment in London where he goes in and they ask him skill-testing questions (probably no issue there, since you two will have a boatload of proof and it will just be a formality) and then they will approve his K visa.

When you have it in hand, he's free to enter the US and file for AOS. At your Port Of Entry (i.e the airport customs people) he will hand over his visa package, they will check it and stamp it, and into the US you go.

If you are not sure of the relationship and have a few years to work with before you are in a place to file, then don't fret yourself over the process now, and give yourself time to decide if this relationship is worth it to you. If it is, you'll find a way and it will strengthen your conviction, if it isn't, the process will certainly help you determine that.

*hugs* No sense in worrying too much right now, nothing is urgent. I'm more than happy to explain any details that you're wondering about, if it would help you de-stress about the situation.

In my case, I was having a serious case of "THE CART DOES NOT BELONG IN FRONT OF THE HORSE, @#%^ IT!!" but that has all eased now and I'm just looking forward to building a life with my guy, and to h*ll with what a paper says about the status of our relationship.

 

[TravelingGal]

RE: wishing guys would take the initiative....

*snort*

I know exactly how you feel. However in my case since TGuy was the one who was going to do the moving, I felt it was totally fine for me to do the research. Why? Because if he had started to delve into the confusing world of visas, I think he would have freaked out and given up. It just WASN''T GONNA HAPPEN. So I had to work with what I had. Fortunately, once I started to research and go over the info with TGuy, he was very good about getting things crossed off the checklist because at the end of the day, it was his visa process and he had to get it done. I really had to be encouraging, loving and supportive about the whole process, because quite frankly he could have just said "screw it - this woman is not worth going through this nutty process for."

I know it''s tough to be away from home and you feel sad. But at least you have the wonderful luxury to live in the same country as your man for awhile to see if he is the man you want to marry. I had just my best hopes and that was it. Another year is well worth the investment if he turns out to be the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. And if he does decide to move to the U.S permanently, he''ll be making a huge sacrifice as well. It will all balance out in the end.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

It looks like you are getting excellent help here on the forum. I just wanted to check in with you Gwendolyn and say I hope it''s going well!

 

[gwendolyn]

I feel like crap.

On Thursday night, as it sometimes happens, I was feeling pretty down, thinking mostly about the choices I've made in life and how, if I was a different person, I'd be settled back home with a house and a car and a good-paying job and not about to turn 30 with essentially nothing to show for it. J didn't know what to say, really, and most of the times when I feel this way, I just solve it by going to bed and thinking that things will feel better in the morning.

J had plans to go out to the movies with his best friend last night, so instead of calling me in the evening, he said he'd call at lunchtime. So, I was doing my schoolwork and keeping my eye on my cell phone, and no call. Ok, so maybe he forgot, or maybe he didn't get away from work at his normal lunch time. That happens, no big deal. It got to be about 1pm, and then I see him on the forum he and I used to use fairly often (I don't anymore usually, I took a break from it during school but recently--within the past week or so--posted a few times to say hi to everyone again). So I think, 'huh, that's weird, why would he be online and not either message me on Yahoo or call?' Yahoo sometimes doesn't work, so I chalked it up to that, but seeing him on the forum was rather worrying. They've had some instances where hackers have gotten into accounts, so I thought maybe that was the problem.

So I wait a little bit and still nothing, so I text him to ask, 'so, no lunchtime phone call after all?' and he writes back saying he hadn't had time to get away. I responded by saying, 'that weird, I saw you online just before.' No text for a couple of hours. Then he writes back saying, 'well, I was on break for a little while, but I didn't want to upset you by saying hi and then bye again really fast.'

So, he didn't want to upset me, so he avoided me and then lied about it?

He called a little while later and we talked for about 30 minutes. He kept saying he did it because he was trying to keep me from being upset, but how can that be if he didn't bother to think how I'd feel if he lied to me? I feel like SUCH an idiot for never once thinking that he would lie to me over anything. We talk about how HUGE an issue trust is, because we're long-distance, because I was cheated on and it absolutely shattered me, because there are situations where people hit on him and I'm ok with it BECAUSE I never had to worry if he was telling me the truth or not. I just always knew he did, even when it was a sticky situation, or when what he had to say was not what I would want to hear. Now I don't know what to think, and that shakes the foundation of our relationship.

We barely got into things before he had to go--someone needed the phone and he had to go out with his best friend soon anyway--a nice fun night out, while I was in my room, feeling hurt and angry and confused and not sure what to do. I don't know what to say, what I want from him, other than for him to not have lied to me in the first place. Maybe it seems like an innocent enough thing to many of you, I don't know, but when SO MUCH of our relationship is built on trust and he breaks it over something, it makes me wonder things like, is this the first time he lied? How does he earn my trust back? Am I overreacting? Was he being selfish and cowardly when he avoided me, or was he really trying to look out for me? If he was trying to look out for me, why didn't he think it through?! Obviously with so many trust issues, I wouldn't have felt even remotely comfortable with the thought of him lying to me about anything, which I thought had been made absolutely-super-crystal-clear many, many, MANY times. Not in girlspeak, in I'm-going-to-clobber-you-over-the-head-with-this-using-antisubtle-language-until-I-am-sure-you-get-its-importance boyspeak.

After I finish doing some research (my internet in my room is out until Monday, so I'm in the nasty computer lab looking up articles) and have lunch, I'm going to ask him to call so I can air out my questions and try to figure out where I stand on all this. I feel sick to my stomach.

 

[surfgirl]

You know gwen, if I''m being honest, this situation just doesn''t sound like it''s doing anything good for you. Honestly, you''ve said over and over that he doesn''t seem interested in pulling his weight in terms of helping to move your relationship forward, whether it''s about the immigration issues or living together soon. He just seems, sorry to say this, like a big ol momma''s boy who hasn''t grown up and simply doesn''t take initiative or responsibility in his life. You, OTOH, seem like a highly intelligent, well rounded/educated person who wants more from life than just sitting around waiting for things to happen TO you. He seems like he''s just sitting around waiting for things to happen TO him. You know what I mean? I guess I''m not quite sure why you think he''s good husband material? Surely there are guys out there that are as intelligent, educated and worldly as you are, who are interested in CREATING their lives, not just letting thing happen to them? Think about it. You''re already long distance...what about just taking a break from this relationship and seeing where that leads you? I''d hate for you to stay on another year there only to find out that he''s never going to change and you''ve delayed your "real life" for an entire year or more...
What I''m trying to say is DONT SETTLE!

 

[galeteia]

I can''t presume to advise you on whether you are overreacting or not because each couple has their own terms for what flies and doesn''t in their relationship, but I send you some virtual hugs over the feeling of being miserable at home with the weight of the future on your shoulders.

My parents divorced when I was a baby and my mother raised me as a single mom, with no child support, and went to school and started a successful career. My mother is as independent and self-sufficient as they come, and very happy with her singlehood (she was common-law married to my stepfather for about 9 years when I was a teen, and left him when he wouldn''t grow up.

).

Why I said all that is to establish context for the following advice she gave me: ''women need to be pursued''. As in, a man needs to show he values you, whether ''pursue'' means eating student meals for months to save up enough to fly all the way up from Texas to Canada for a 5-day visit, or going head-to-head with his family over you, or taking out the garbage the first time you asked.

Gwen, only you can know what constitutes evidence of how much he values you. We can only see what you post to us, but do you feel that he behaves like a man who is eager to convince you to marry him, if in fact he is hot to trot for "marriage: Full Stop" as you said?

There are times when I fail to talk to my guy before he heads for bed if I get caught up in something, and times when he goes out without getting a chance to email me to tell me he won''t be online when I get home, but this is okay in the context of our relationship, and if it''s not okay in the context of yours, then that is a violation of the terms of your relationship.

The tricky thing about international/LD relationships is that they usually get the stick and hardly ever the carrot, so they need to be treated with extra care and attention. And extra rules sometimes.

 

[basil]

I''ll preface this by saying that I don''t know your relationship aside from things I''ve picked up here.

But I kinda don''t get where the lie was...I know I''ve been in situations - particularly at work - where I have an uncertain amount of downtime so I come here and check a few posts before I get called away again. I love my fiance more than anything, can''t wait to marry him, and live to talk on the phone with him since we are currently long distance, but it''s hard to get into a conversation when you only have 10 minutes and you have to eat too. I just find it really hard to talk when I''m busy with other things, and I don''t think it reflects my desire to talk to him either. Now, if he asked me, I''d probably tell him that I was too busy to call him. I guess that maybe you could interpret that as a lie - if I had time to do anything else (sleep, eat, surf the internet, use the toilet) then I physically could have called.

Honestly, it kind of sounds like he didn''t feel like calling for whatever reason. But he doesn''t want to say that to you. For good reason, because I don''t think that partners should be that blunt with each other. I''m guessing the reason he didn''t call was more to do with the above type of circumstance than anything more sinister. I emphathize with your history of being cheated on, but you know he wasn''t cheating - he was posting online.

I guess what I''m saying is that I think "I didn''t call because I didn''t have time" and "I didn''t call because there wasn''t enough time [to have a worthwhile conversation]" are basically the same thing, so I wouldn''t particularly construe it as a lie.

 

[gwendolyn]

Hey ladies, thanks for the input. We talked on the phone again yesterday for an hour, and I''m not sure what it accomplished, really. He agreed with all the things I said, and at one point got arsey with me because I wasn''t giving him the benefit of the doubt, which made me lose my temper a bit (something that almost never happens). I told him he needed to work out how to try to make things right again--at which point he sort of moaned about how there wasn''t anything he could do other than buy me off with flowers or something, and I told him there were other things to be done if he''d take the time to think about it, instead of giving up before he even started.

The thing that I had always thought made it worth it is that he is a really sweet guy, who I can be completely myself with, whether I''m laughing or crying or somewhere in between (I''ve spent most of my life laughing, until recently--grad school has been difficult, as have all these decisions about next year). He is sweet, and he''s intelligent, and he''s really funny, and we have a GREAT time together. He''s also (a lot of the time) fine with stepping out of his comfort zone if I''m there with him, which is more than I can say for the past guys I''ve dated. I don''t always like having to hold his hand, but I do like that he is usually willing to take a risk if I am there with him--it makes him feel stronger, and makes me feel like I''m broadening his world, which only helps us to get even closer.

What I don''t like is that he tends to accept defeat with things before he even starts them--he has a lot of preconceived notions about what his limitations are, many of them giving him much less credit than he deserves, and often (possibly because it''s easier), he doesn''t bend over backwards to find a solution like I would in his position. It hurts me when this happens in our relationship, and this is a point that I brought up yesterday when we talked--that every other time we''ve had a disagreement, he doesn''t try to do anything to make it better, he just lays low until I come around again. And that makes me feel like crap too. I want to feel like I''m worth pursuing, as you said, surfgirl. That doesn''t mean I expect him to show up outside my room in a limo with roses and a harpist or something, but I do want him to do SOMEthing out of the ordinary to show he realizes that some extra measures are required.

On April 1st, I''ll be going home for a month (YAY!!!!!!!!!) to conduct my research for my degree, so in some ways we''ll be on a break regardless of what happens between now and then. Ideally what I''d like is for him to find a way to come down today to talk to me, but he doesn''t have his own car, so I''m 99% sure he won''t be coming--I even mentioned that to him yesterday, but I''m still pretty sure he wouldn''t have even asked if he could use the car. I hope so, but I doubt it. A love letter would be really nice, for him to tell me all the reasons he loves me and wants to stay with me, and apologize without making excuses as to why it happened--it wouldn''t cost any money (we''re theoretically saving to move in together in July, when I finish my degree), and would show that he''s put forth some effort to show me that I matter. I feel really disrespected by this whole thing, even though I know it doesn''t seem like such a big deal to some. I feel like the legs were knocked out from under me, because honesty was such a HUGE part of our relationship. It just leaves me feeling like, if he doesn''t find a way to try to make it up to me somehow, that I''m even less sure about staying here next year, and that breaks my heart. Over three years of long-distance heartache, all to be shaken up by some stupid lie now. Granted, I''d rather it be a stupid lie than a huge lie, but it''s still a lie--saying he didn''t get away from work (he works at his parents'' business, which is attached to their house) when he did, instead of just telling me he didn''t have time to call just then, is a lie and it makes me feel like crap because he didn''t think I could handle him calling a little later. How lame does he think I am?

Anyway, I need to get back to doing my schoolwork... I was up last night from 3-5 thinking up more things I wanted to say to him, so I will probably talk to him later today again. One of the things is about how he needs to find a way to show me through some sort of action that I''m worth it to him. There have been other incidents of things I consider to be broken promises, where he told me he''d do something and then left it to me to nag him about it however many times over the course of weeks or months, at which point I consider it a broken promise. If he agrees to look something up, then I figure it''s in his hands, and he should get back to me about it when he''s done it and tell me what he''s found. He just waits for me to bug him about it, and I HATE that, and he knows it. We''ve talked about ways for him to manage this stuff on his own (he says his memory is crap--well, so is mine), like by writing it down on sticky-notes and putting them on his computer to do before he does any fun stuff online. But he doesn''t write things down, so....no dice.

He is a great guy, and he SAYS he wants to get out on his own and that he''s ready to be responsible and part of a team, but he hasn''t shown me that yet. He feels limited by the fact that he''s still living with his folks, but I don''t think he should let that be an excuse--I think it''s a reason some things are more difficult for now, but I don''t like it as an excuse.

Anyway, I will talk with him and then see what happens next. I feel like it''s my turn to let things he does just happen to me, if he has the willpower to make anything happen *for* me, instead of *with* me.

 

[gwendolyn]

Just wanted to update to say I am feeling better--our conversation yesterday shook him in a productive way (first time ever!) and he's done something and has it on its way to me already, and has something else in the works too. In all the times we've had fights, he's never actually done anything proactive to try to show me that he cares. Normally he just waits for me to talk to him, but today things have changed. Maybe this sounds dumb, but in my heart I really believe he cares about me more than anything, I just think he fumbles and doesn't know how to make things better, and sort of scares himself into thinking he'll only mess it up further. As hurt as I was about the dishonesty, I was even more hurt thinking he wouldn't bother to try to show me he was sorry--and in case it sounds like I'm just after some fancy presents, that's not it. One of the most prized gifts I've ever gotten from him was a drawing he did with the artist pencils I got him a few years ago--he loves to draw, but doesn't do it much anymore, and he brushed out the cobwebs in the artist corner of his brain and did me a drawing because he knew how much I'd love it. So it's not material stuff I'm after, in case it sounded that way--it's effort and thought.

ETA: I don't have time to read over my whole last post (haha, no, I don't expect you to read it all either

) but I think I referred to a comment by Galateia but said it was by surfgirl--sorry about that, ladies! I've been in a rush to post these because my internet in my room is down and I hate these nasty public computer labs!!

 

[star sparkle]

Date: 3/2/2008 5:55:16 AM
Author: gwendolyn
Hey ladies, thanks for the input. We talked on the phone again yesterday for an hour, and I''m not sure what it accomplished, really. He agreed with all the things I said, and at one point got arsey with me because I wasn''t giving him the benefit of the doubt, which made me lose my temper a bit (something that almost never happens). I told him he needed to work out how to try to make things right again--at which point he sort of moaned about how there wasn''t anything he could do other than buy me off with flowers or something, and I told him there were other things to be done if he''d take the time to think about it, instead of giving up before he even started.


The thing that I had always thought made it worth it is that he is a really sweet guy, who I can be completely myself with, whether I''m laughing or crying or somewhere in between (I''ve spent most of my life laughing, until recently--grad school has been difficult, as have all these decisions about next year). He is sweet, and he''s intelligent, and he''s really funny, and we have a GREAT time together. He''s also (a lot of the time) fine with stepping out of his comfort zone if I''m there with him, which is more than I can say for the past guys I''ve dated. I don''t always like having to hold his hand, but I do like that he is usually willing to take a risk if I am there with him--it makes him feel stronger, and makes me feel like I''m broadening his world, which only helps us to get even closer.


What I don''t like is that he tends to accept defeat with things before he even starts them--he has a lot of preconceived notions about what his limitations are, many of them giving him much less credit than he deserves, and often (possibly because it''s easier), he doesn''t bend over backwards to find a solution like I would in his position. It hurts me when this happens in our relationship, and this is a point that I brought up yesterday when we talked--that every other time we''ve had a disagreement, he doesn''t try to do anything to make it better, he just lays low until I come around again. And that makes me feel like crap too. I want to feel like I''m worth pursuing, as you said, surfgirl. That doesn''t mean I expect him to show up outside my room in a limo with roses and a harpist or something, but I do want him to do SOMEthing out of the ordinary to show he realizes that some extra measures are required.

Gwen-

All of that you wrote above is EXACTLY how I sometimes feel/felt about my BF. Like word for word, exactly.

I''ve come to realize that it''s not because he doesn''t love me or care about me that causes him to act in the above manner, it''s just that sometimes he doesn''t know how his actions affect me. His is the type of person who, whenever we get in an argument, can act like nothing happened and be back to himself within an hour or two. I, on the other hand, need a little bit more in order to move on. It took him a long time to realize that I don''t forgive/forget as easily as he does. I''ve found that the best way to explain it to him is when we''re NOT arguing, and just have an open and honest conversation about what you need and what you''d like to happen in the case of problems.

I can totally understand when you say it''s not about material things, but the thought and effort that goes into something. When we were long-distance (he in the UK and me in CA), he would draw me pictures in Paint and then email them to me as a way of saying sorry. It was just a really sweet thing for him to do and it DID show me that he does love and was sorry for what happened.

Before he moved out here to CA, it seemed to me that he was dragging his feet and that he didn''t really want to be with me because if he did, he would have been here already. He was finishing up school still, and I felt that he was prolonging it as much as he could. He wasn''t, though, and it took me a while to realize that what seemed like reluctance on his part to move here was really just his expression of how much he was going to miss London. When he would say things like "I''m really going to miss England," I took it to mean "I wish I didn''t have to move there." After thinking for a long time, I realized that he DIDN''T have to move, but he chose to leave a place he loved because he wanted to be with me.

I don''t know if this really helps you at all, but I just wanted to let you know that you''re not alone in this and that some of us have been through similar situations and have emerged relatively unscathed.

 

[surfgirl]

So gwen, what did you boy end up sending you last week? I remember you saying that he wasn''t appearing to take action to show you how much he wants to be with you, then you found that he''d sent you something...What did he do???

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 3/11/2008 1:50:15 PM
Author: surfgirl
So gwen, what did you boy end up sending you last week? I remember you saying that he wasn't appearing to take action to show you how much he wants to be with you, then you found that he'd sent you something...What did he do???

He sent me flowers (first time ever, after almost 3.5 years!!), a really beautiful springtime arrangement, complete with a vase and everything (which sounds dumb, but since this is a dorm room and all I have are a couple drinking glasses, this was good news). I know that flowers aren't terribly exciting for most people, but I can't tell you the number of times we've had arguments where he would apologize for doing/saying something and just say, "I said I was sorry, there's nothing else I can do." For the little things, yeah, just saying it is cool, but for big things, I've said that I'd like him to *do* something to actually *show* me he's sorry, and he just never did. He would wait it out, and eventually I'd get over it, and then things would more or less be ok--I wouldn't forget about it, but I'd get over it.

I also just think flowers are lovely and they make me feel all girly (something I don't normally go for but with flowers it's ok) and I loved hearing people comment on them and ask me about them as I walked across campus to my room.

He is coming down tomorrow, because it is my birthday! I turn the big 3-0, and I'm pretty excited. My last day of class for the term is tomorrow, so he's arriving in the evening, and we're going out for Thai, and then the rest of the weekend we're doing day trips to Leeds Castle, Stonehenge and the city of Bath, so I am very excited!! Should be good, I think. I usually make a big deal of birthdays because I think of them as a way to show how thankful you are that someone else exists, and this year could've been a hard birthday for me to have because all my friends and family are back at home. But J (even though he isn't big into birthdays himself at all) is doing what he can to make it really special for me, which also shows me how much he cares.

Thanks for asking! Bet you didn't expect such a long-winded response.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 3/2/2008 1:37:16 PM
Author: star sparkle
Gwen-


All of that you wrote above is EXACTLY how I sometimes feel/felt about my BF. Like word for word, exactly.


I''ve come to realize that it''s not because he doesn''t love me or care about me that causes him to act in the above manner, it''s just that sometimes he doesn''t know how his actions affect me. His is the type of person who, whenever we get in an argument, can act like nothing happened and be back to himself within an hour or two. I, on the other hand, need a little bit more in order to move on. It took him a long time to realize that I don''t forgive/forget as easily as he does. I''ve found that the best way to explain it to him is when we''re NOT arguing, and just have an open and honest conversation about what you need and what you''d like to happen in the case of problems.


I can totally understand when you say it''s not about material things, but the thought and effort that goes into something. When we were long-distance (he in the UK and me in CA), he would draw me pictures in Paint and then email them to me as a way of saying sorry. It was just a really sweet thing for him to do and it DID show me that he does love and was sorry for what happened.


Before he moved out here to CA, it seemed to me that he was dragging his feet and that he didn''t really want to be with me because if he did, he would have been here already. He was finishing up school still, and I felt that he was prolonging it as much as he could. He wasn''t, though, and it took me a while to realize that what seemed like reluctance on his part to move here was really just his expression of how much he was going to miss London. When he would say things like ''I''m really going to miss England,'' I took it to mean ''I wish I didn''t have to move there.'' After thinking for a long time, I realized that he DIDN''T have to move, but he chose to leave a place he loved because he wanted to be with me.


I don''t know if this really helps you at all, but I just wanted to let you know that you''re not alone in this and that some of us have been through similar situations and have emerged relatively unscathed.

Hi there, star sparkle! Sorry I didn''t reply to this sooner; only just saw it!

Aye, I do the talking-after-the-fact thing too. It definitely helps, I agree! I sometimes get the feeling that J is dragging his feet in helping to set up our life together here in the UK. It occasionally makes me feel a bit prickly because, although he may be leaving his hometown, I''m staying away from my country for another year, so I kind of think he should get over it. If we work out, then we will probably move to the US (at least that''s my thinking now, and he says he''s fine wherever as long as he''s with me and I''m happy), at which point he will be making a big sacrifice in leaving England, which he loves so much. But until that time comes, it''s me who''s leaving my home to be with him, so it''d be nice if he did a little to make the transition for me a little easier, to show me that he will help out to make this go as smoothly as possible, y''know? I think it was TG who said earlier that, since her man was moving to the US, she did the research to do her part. I want J to do his part for next year.

Ah well, as I just told surfgirl, it''s my birthday tomorrow, so I''m not going to get all worked up over immigration paperwork now. Too depressing! It''s party time!