Learning, yearning and what to do?!

[FallenRox]

Oooo that's a really lovely colour. Will keep my eye out

Thank you!

 

[FallenRox]

Innerkitten,
I respectfully disagree. There are some very fine ebay stones out there. However, the ones she's looking for is a very inexpensive color, no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't want to pay a ton of money just because some lapidary sourced it him/herself. There are some really fine and trustworthy ebay vendors as well.

It's hard to find such huge sizes in spinels. The listing ended, but I don't think anyone bought it. You can email the seller to find out if you're interested.

After speaking with several cutters, I'm tending to agree with you here. Although that gorgeous rock is more like $300.00 than $30.00... I'd gladly pay it for the right stone. I'm also going to just go ahead and make an ebay account because I want to just order several inexpensive smaller stones, as Innerkitten mentioned... it seems it would be worth it just to see them in my hand and compare color etc.

I did contact Jerry and am waiting to hear back on the dimensions. I actually have a few of the better cut stones bookmarked just in case. You're right, large is difficult to find, but I'm determined.

Thanks again for everything!

Roxy

 

[T L]

Innerkitten,
I respectfully disagree. There are some very fine ebay stones out there. However, the ones she's looking for is a very inexpensive color, no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't want to pay a ton of money just because some lapidary sourced it him/herself. There are some really fine and trustworthy ebay vendors as well.

It's hard to find such huge sizes in spinels. The listing ended, but I don't think anyone bought it. You can email the seller to find out if you're interested.

After speaking with several cutters, I'm tending to agree with you here. Although that gorgeous rock is more like $300.00 than $30.00... I'd gladly pay it for the right stone. I'm also going to just go ahead and make an ebay account because I want to just order several inexpensive smaller stones, as Innerkitten mentioned... it seems it would be worth it just to see them in my hand and compare color etc.

I did contact Jerry and am waiting to hear back on the dimensions. I actually have a few of the better cut stones bookmarked just in case. You're right, large is difficult to find, but I'm determined.

Thanks again for everything!

Roxy

Spinels tend to go up sharply in price every carat past four carats, so it's actually a very good price for that since it's almost 7 carats. I would try out small simple starter stones from Srilankamall and Colorful_gems. They range in price from $10 to $25 for around a 1 to 2 carat stone. Free shipping and handling too. At least you would get an idea of how the stones look in hand before you make a decision. They are great about returns too, and returns are in the United States, which is good for many of us. Once I place an order with them, it usually takes 2 to 4 days to get to me, and it's very well packaged, in a sealed gem jar with all the specifics. I have several spinels from them that I'm planning on making into a bracelet one of these days.

Let us know what Jerry says.

 

[minousbijoux]

Threadjack: TL, I have never bought from either of the ebay sellers you name - how are they at responding to questions? How is their quality? TIA

 

[T L]

Threadjack: TL, I have never bought from either of the ebay sellers you name - how are they at responding to questions? How is their quality? TIA

Odysseygem/Gemburionline/VVS1Gem are the same vendor, and they have some drop dead gorgeous color material, even if it can be flawed, or not precision cut. Truth be told, and this is going to be a controversial statement, but BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I cannot find material from the various lapidaries with the quality of color from this store for the same price points. Others have told me in private, the same thing, but they're too afraid to admit it on Pricescope. There are plenty of dud stones too, but if you know how to look for good material, you can get some really fine color gems for a great price. Unfortunately, before the store owner had his medical issues, they used to be quick about answering questions, and now it takes at least a few days or more than one email to get a question answered. It can be frustrating, but I think their gems are worth it. I know someone that has bought a ton of fine very expensive Mahenge spinels from them, and she insists the quality is way better than another very popular Mahenge dealer, mentioned quite often here, at the same price points (she has bought a lot from that other dealer too). I also like that they can get you a reputable lab report from the lab of your choice (they have various labs you can choose). You cannot get this from many dealers, including "that other dealer." That means a lot to me, especially with the bad rap that Thai ebay sellers get. Returns have never been a problem for me either.

As for Srilankamall and Colorful_gems, most of their spinels are either too dark and/or too grey, but occasionally, they'll have a pretty stone. For what the OP is looking for, I think they would suffice. I will say that many of the cuts on the stones are very nice, and the first spinel I ever bought that I loved is from Srilankamall. They are quick to responding to questions, and their English is good. You can find similar material from the lapidaries for much higher prices. Their prices are outrageously inexpensive, and you can't beat the free S&H. I have only bought spinels from them. I would like to try one of their kornerupines one of these days. It's a very durable, hard yellowish gem, and they have some nice material. Oh yes, I did once buy a very pretty minty green zircon from them as well. They will also email you the tracking number of your package. I find them a great vendor that honestly answers my questions.

I will not buy corundum (sapphire or ruby)from any of these sellers without the former having a lab report (deeming no treatment) and I stay away from pink tourmaline, and blue tourmaline for that matter as well. There are some gems I stay away from no matter what.

For me, precision cut gems are not a must have. For some people, they must have a stone cut by Jeff White, Richard Homer, etc. . . and that's fine, but you must know that you will be paying a premium, and often times, you can find the same quality of color on ebay. For me, since I'm gaged toward trying to save people money, I often recommend certain vendors, and recutters, as I have done here. I think Jerry Newman is a fantastic lapidary. He cut an Afghan tourmaline rough for me, and I do own many precision cut gems, and his is the most intricate cut by far of all my precision cut gems. It's really a work of art. I have seen others buy his material, and I think he does a great job, from what I've seen, and best of all, he's very reasonable for recuts. He only charged me $150 to cut a piece of rough, and it was a very precarious piece to cut, full of lots of fractures, and cleavage planes.

Sometimes I don't even mention my favorite ebay sellers to an OP because they have their mind set on a certain lapidary, which is fine, but in this case the OP seems to be willing to keep her options open. I will also say that I think Barry Bridgestock of acstones.com and Gene Flannigan of precisiongem.com are probably the most affordable of the various lapidaries, and they produce some nicely cut gems for someone on a budget. I personally think Gene's cutting is as good as Jeff's, as they both produce some fancy cuts. Barry is more of a "traditional" faceter.

 

[minousbijoux]

Really good summary, TL! I would tend to agree with your statement regarding the color and quality level of Tan's stones in comparison to most of the precision cutters. The big difference IMO worth paying the difference for is the magnificent cutting of the precision crew. Sometimes, I'll see something on Tan's site where I love the proportions of the cut, but most of the time I would consider his stones for the saturation of color and the price point. That said, I would love you to give a seminar in "How to assess Tan's stones through his Videos, Stills and Descriptions," since you seem to have it down to a science.

FWIW, As you know, I think fairly highly of Gem earth as well, but lately I feel like I've hit the wall with the photoshopping of stones. It has recently made it too much of a gamble to purchase, unless I ask many questions and I get the owner to provide really honest answers...

 

[T L]

Really good summary, TL! I would tend to agree with your statement regarding the color and quality level of Tan's stones in comparison to most of the precision cutters. The big difference IMO worth paying the difference for is the magnificent cutting of the precision crew. Sometimes, I'll see something on Tan's site where I love the proportions of the cut, but most of the time I would consider his stones for the saturation of color and the price point. That said, I would love you to give a seminar in "How to assess Tan's stones through his Videos, Stills and Descriptions," since you seem to have it down to a science.

FWIW, As you know, I think fairly highly of Gem earth as well, but lately I feel like I've hit the wall with the photoshopping of stones. It has recently made it too much of a gamble to purchase, unless I ask many questions and I get the owner to provide really honest answers...

I have to agree that I wouldn't just buy any of Tan's stones, and based on my comments above, think it's automatically perfect. I have to stress that he has plenty of dud stones, but every so often, you can find a "miracle of nature." I also think he has some of the best pricing anywhere on unheated blue sapphires, and with lab reports. He also has some overpriced gems too, so you do have to be careful. I think I do have it down to a science with his material, but I am like that. I much rather take the time and search carefully to find a good value. For me, precision cutting is not an issue because it's so difficult to find that rare vivid saturation, that sometimes you have to overlook fine cutting. Besides, you always have the option of getting a stone recut. I just bought a drop dead gorgeous tsavorite from him, and I'm currently having it set. I also like that he has videos of the gems. I would also say not to pay attention to his tone and saturation values in his listings. Everything seems to be medium dark and strong saturation, which isn't always true. I think his staff just likes to repeat the same information on all of his listings. For example, my last spinel was described as medium dark in tone, but it was more medium tone, and when I emailed him about the tone, he told me it was medium as well.

Gem Earth does photoshop, but I'm glad that the seller can answer your questions. I know a vendor that buys a lot from them and resells their material to people like you and me. My big issue with Gem Earth however is her insistence on using some labs I never heard of, and cannot verify their existence. Also, some of the lab reports do not report ALL treatment, and that is misleading to consumers, and very precarious, especially with corundum.

BTW, tons of vendors also resell Tan's stones. I can't tell you how many times I've seen his photos reused in other ebay stores, or by other vendors, and his videos too. His photos have a tell tale look and are easy to spot.

In this case, the OP is fortunate because she's looking for a color in spinel that isn't rare, and is easy to find. She has a lot more options than someone looking for an unheated saturated ruby, for example.

 

[FallenRox]

Ummm... what's an OP?

And I think some of you guys should be gem agents. Is there such a thing??
I was an agent for models for 10 years and knew that industry inside and out. This seems very similar, just a different product.

Just sayin'

 

[T L]

Ummm... what's an OP?

And I think some of you guys should be gem agents. Is there such a thing??
I was an agent for models for 10 years and knew that industry inside and out. This seems very similar, just a different product.

Just sayin'

OP is the Original Poster, or in this case, you!

I would love to be a model agent, I have an eye for beautiful people too.

 

[FallenRox]

Let us know what Jerry says.

Still haven't heard from him, might try to contact him again, maybe he's just busy currently.
I did hear from a local jeweler today from the very beginning of my search who has an 8mm emerald cut spinel - dark red, which I really don't think I'd be interested in for a lifetime wedding stone, and she's asking 3K for it. (Out of my budget anyway) I do want to see it though because it sounds beautiful.

She also found a 2 carat asscher black diamond (non synthetic) and I have never ever seen that, in fact, I was told they were non existent by more than 4 people. So I don't know... Anyway, she's asking 1K for that one, so I'm going to look at it. I'm pretty set on my direction with this though, so unless it blows my mind and has a solid "pedigree" <--- not the right word, I'm sure. lol I'll pass and keep looking.

I know one thing. I'm hooked on gems. Mostly thanks to this place! And I know now what an OP is.

 

[T L]

Let us know what Jerry says.

Still haven't heard from him, might try to contact him again, maybe he's just busy currently.
I did hear from a local jeweler today from the very beginning of my search who has an 8mm emerald cut spinel - dark red, which I really don't think I'd be interested in for a lifetime wedding stone, and she's asking 3K for it. (Out of my budget anyway) I do want to see it though because it sounds beautiful.

She also found a 2 carat asscher black diamond (non synthetic) and I have never ever seen that, in fact, I was told they were non existent by more than 4 people. So I don't know... Anyway, she's asking 1K for that one, so I'm going to look at it. I'm pretty set on my direction with this though, so unless it blows my mind and has a solid "pedigree" <--- not the right word, I'm sure. lol I'll pass and keep looking.

I know one thing. I'm hooked on gems. Mostly thanks to this place! And I know now what an OP is.

I wouldn't buy a black diamond. Most are irradiated and worth very little, even in large sizes. I would rather have a black spinel for much less money, same look too.

 

[FallenRox]

I wouldn't buy a black diamond. Most are irradiated and worth very little, even in large sizes. I would rather have a black spinel for much less money, same look too.

Definitely heard that a lot. I'm too enamored with these spinels as it is... like... this one. *drool

Thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-44ct-Amazingly-Sized-Oval-Natural-Mined-Violet-Spinel-/350290075475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item518eea5f53

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-29ct-Gorgeous-Oval-Cut-Natural-Violet-Spinel-/370503585126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643bc0d66

 

[T L]

I wouldn't buy a black diamond. Most are irradiated and worth very little, even in large sizes. I would rather have a black spinel for much less money, same look too.

Definitely heard that a lot. I'm too enamored with these spinels as it is... like... this one. *drool

Thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-44ct-Amazingly-Sized-Oval-Natural-Mined-Violet-Spinel-/350290075475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item518eea5f53

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-29ct-Gorgeous-Oval-Cut-Natural-Violet-Spinel-/370503585126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643bc0d66

Well, I'm afraid to say because the last time I did, someone clicked the BIN button.

 

[FallenRox]

Ahhh, ok- I appreciate your protecting this OPs interest!
And just fyi.... I'm not going to buy either, I just want to make sure I'm getting the hang of picking them out.

I did just find out that several people will not recut anyone elses stones, (not Jerry) so I guess this is a fickle ~game~ so to speak. Looks like it's not very much different than the politics of modeling at all. Definitely learning a TON though, and quite happy to have a new hobby aside from my art.

 

[T L]

Ahhh, ok- I appreciate your protecting this OPs interest!
And just fyi.... I'm not going to buy either, I just want to make sure I'm getting the hang of picking them out.

I did just find out that several people will not recut anyone elses stones, (not Jerry) so I guess this is a fickle ~game~ so to speak. Looks like it's not very much different than the politics of modeling at all. Definitely learning a TON though, and quite happy to have a new hobby aside from my art.

You know, Barry Bridgestock of acstones mentioned someone to me that will recut stones. I have to find his link. Jerry used to recut other material, wonder what happened ??????

ETA: found the link to these recutters.

www.gemstoneartists.com

 

[FallenRox]

Ahhh, ok- I appreciate your protecting this OPs interest!
And just fyi.... I'm not going to buy either, I just want to make sure I'm getting the hang of picking them out.

I did just find out that several people will not recut anyone elses stones, (not Jerry) so I guess this is a fickle ~game~ so to speak. Looks like it's not very much different than the politics of modeling at all. Definitely learning a TON though, and quite happy to have a new hobby aside from my art.

You know, Barry Bridgestock of acstones mentioned someone to me that will recut stones. I have to find his link. Jerry used to recut other material, wonder what happened ??????

ETA: found the link to these recutters.

www.gemstoneartists.com

Ohhhhh, no... I meant Jerry didn't say he wouldn't ... but others I've spoken to have said they will not. Still haven't spoken to Jerry, sorry for the confusion! I did email him again and am talking to Dana still. HE is such a nice guy!

Barry was one who said he wouldn't recut anyone's stones or their rough for that matter but he did give me the same link you did, so that's a good sign! Thanks again.

Pheww- this is some work!

 

[T L]

If you can get Jerry, I would go that route. His turnaround time, once he gets your stone, is quick!! I once sent Dana a stone to recut, and he was kind enough to offer to recut it, but he never got around to it. He was very busy I guess, and he generally does not like to cut people's stones.

Jerry's work is fantastic.

Phew, glad he still cuts other stones. Send him another email, maybe the first one you sent got eaten by cyberspace.

 

[SB621]

Diamonds by Lauren has a large raspberry Rhod Garnet on his site that is asscher cut for $499 I believe. You might want to check that out. Under New items.

 

[FallenRox]

If you can get Jerry, I would go that route. His turnaround time, once he gets your stone, is quick!! I once sent Dana a stone to recut, and he was kind enough to offer to recut it, but he never got around to it. He was very busy I guess, and he generally does not like to cut people's stones.

Jerry's work is fantastic.

Phew, glad he still cuts other stones. Send him another email, maybe the first one you sent got eaten by cyberspace.

You were right, original mail got lost. I wrote him again and
he was back with me right away. Very very helpful and gave me exacts on what to
look for in several types of cuts for spinels that would make a nice large asscher.

I feel confident about that, but now I have an issue... it seems the original setting I picked out might not be
deep enough for an asscher. you gotta be ******* me! I could so cry. But alas, maybe that setting wasn't
meant to be and I get to pull my hair out to find a new jeweler who I can trust to make something. Did I mention
that I really miss my jeweler who passed on? *sigh

Ok, I'm going to get my emo self out of here for now and will post back when I know something.
---------------------
@Sarahbear621
** I did check out that asscher that you mentioned but the color just wasn't right.... thank you for the suggestion though!!

 

[Arkteia]

Just wanted to say, I bought something from Srilankamail (TL, I did not even know about your experience with them) and was very pleased with the communication. They would also certify stones for you, and very cheap.

If you are going to work with Jerry, not only is his work amazing, he also likes to explain what he is doing, critical angles, etc. He should have been a college professor. You'll enjoy the education part as much as you'll enjoy the final product! Knowledge is priceless, and in Jerry's case, it will be included in the whole (inexpensive) package! Basically, a free gift.

And in general, if you type "spinel" or "grey spinel" or (whatever color you are looking for), there will be so many inexpensive stones on the ebay! I missed one which was definitely a candidate for recut, but had beautiful salmon color. I would not discount ebay at all.

 

[FallenRox]

Just wanted to say, I bought something from Srilankamail (TL, I did not even know about your experience with them) and was very pleased with the communication. They would also certify stones for you, and very cheap.

If you are going to work with Jerry, not only is his work amazing, he also likes to explain what he is doing, critical angles, etc. He should have been a college professor. You'll enjoy the education part as much as you'll enjoy the final product! Knowledge is priceless, and in Jerry's case, it will be included in the whole (inexpensive) package! Basically, a free gift.

And in general, if you type "spinel" or "grey spinel" or (whatever color you are looking for), there will be so many inexpensive stones on the ebay! I missed one which was definitely a candidate for recut, but had beautiful salmon color. I would not discount ebay at all.

Awesome to know!! Thank you so much for popping in here and sharing your experiences. I have been enjoying my conversations with Jerry, he is a doll, and very helpful. You can tell when someone is very passionate about their work when they take the time to explain even the tiniest details.

I'm still on the gem hunt, and thanks for the encouragement

As an aside, I find it funny that many jewelers that I've spoken to, locally or abroad (I'm not speaking about gem cutters when I say this)... are pretty argumentative. It kind of dampens the overall experience when "holier than thou" pops out of them as you are seeking info. I actually got yelled at by a lady yesterday. lol

Haven't had coffee yet either, so my apologies if this is all disjointed as I type, but I've had a couple people tell me that I'm making a mistake by going spinel instead of sapphire for the long haul of a wedding ring. Hardness being the big contender. Personally, I love the history of the spinel and it's a very intriguing stone to me. I have no ~attachment~ to a sapphire (no offense to sapphire lovers) but am curious if anyone has thoughts on this?

Thanks guys! Off to brew the go go juice.

 

[T L]

Just wanted to say, I bought something from Srilankamail (TL, I did not even know about your experience with them) and was very pleased with the communication. They would also certify stones for you, and very cheap.

If you are going to work with Jerry, not only is his work amazing, he also likes to explain what he is doing, critical angles, etc. He should have been a college professor. You'll enjoy the education part as much as you'll enjoy the final product! Knowledge is priceless, and in Jerry's case, it will be included in the whole (inexpensive) package! Basically, a free gift.

And in general, if you type "spinel" or "grey spinel" or (whatever color you are looking for), there will be so many inexpensive stones on the ebay! I missed one which was definitely a candidate for recut, but had beautiful salmon color. I would not discount ebay at all.

Good to hear about your experience with Srilankamall Crasru. What lab do they use to certify stones? Almost all the spinels I have purchased from them have had bubbles, so I didn't bother, and they're so cheap anyways.

I believe Jerry is a former mechanical engineer (it states on his website) , so he has the mind setup to do this visual mathematical thinking that really helps as a lapidary.

 

[T L]

As an aside, I find it funny that many jewelers that I've spoken to, locally or abroad (I'm not speaking about gem cutters when I say this)... are pretty argumentative. It kind of dampens the overall experience when "holier than thou" pops out of them as you are seeking info. I actually got yelled at by a lady yesterday. lol

Haven't had coffee yet either, so my apologies if this is all disjointed as I type, but I've had a couple people tell me that I'm making a mistake by going spinel instead of sapphire for the long haul of a wedding ring. Hardness being the big contender. Personally, I love the history of the spinel and it's a very intriguing stone to me. I have no ~attachment~ to a sapphire (no offense to sapphire lovers) but am curious if anyone has thoughts on this?

Thanks guys! Off to brew the go go juice.

Jewelers can be argumentative if you sound like you know more than them, which is the case with 99% of the Colored Stoners in Pricescope. They get frustrated because they can't answer your questions, or they get defensive. That's my experience anyways. It's always the ones that know the most about gemology and colored stones in general, that are the most friendly and easy to work with.

As for spinels vs sapphires. Spinels are the un-marketed underdog of the gem world, and I think they're a really good value for now. If they were marketed as much as sapphires, then they would be far more expensive, but I think that's changing. They also have the bad rap of being those ugly synthetics you see in college rings, which doesn't help. There are very beautiful sapphires out there, but they are few and far between, and very expensive. Most sapphires I see look less saturated than many blue spinels I see and own, and they are probably heavily treated, which spinels are not. Spinels also have a higher refractive index, and take a nicer polish, IMHO.

 

[FallenRox]

Jewelers can be argumentative if you sound like you know more than them, which is the case with 99% of the Colored Stoners in Pricescope. They get frustrated because they can't answer your questions, or they get defensive. That's my experience anyways. It's always the ones that know the most about gemology and colored stones in general, that are the most friendly and easy to work with.

As for spinels vs sapphires. Spinels are the un-marketed underdog of the gem world, and I think they're a really good value for now. If they were marketed as much as sapphires, then they would be far more expensive, but I think that's changing. They also have the bad rap of being those ugly synthetics you see in college rings, which doesn't help. There are very beautiful sapphires out there, but they are few and far between, and very expensive. Most sapphires I see look less saturated than many blue spinels I see and own, and they are probably heavily treated, which spinels are not. Spinels also have a higher refractive index, and take a nicer polish, IMHO.

I would have never considered me to know more about a stone than a jeweler but yes, after reading for 3 weeks straight and learning as much as I can about spinels, I think I can almost talk shop! thanks to you guys.

Glad to hear your opinion also on spinel/sapphire because I just don't have my heart in a sapphire, although they are beautiful. And even though they come in a huge variety of color, I've still never seen one the color I'm looking for.

Still looking!

 

[FallenRox]

I'm likely losing my mind because this is nothing like what I thought I was looking for... any input on this for a center stone? It's not even a spinel and I know nothing about them, but it's ...... so different!

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-36ct-Top-Class-RARE-Asscher-Color-Shift-Malaia-Garnet-/370370790239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563bd1c35f

 

[FallenRox]

I've totally changed my mind on my original setting. Ended up finding something more me.
Also opened an ebay account and won my first bid today on a stone for fun just to see the color- THAT was exciting.

So here's the new setting and I'm in the process of figuring out all the stones.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped answer my many questions!