Let''s talk Tookie

[Momoftwo]

I also have a major issue with the free college degrees these inmates receive. Those that get law degrees use them to sue the state for their "inhumane" treatment because they dont' have soft toilet paper or cable tv or good food. And, we, the taxpayers get to pay for it their court time, etc. Give me a break. I personally wish this country would do what a lot of foreign countries do and make them or their families pay for their incarceration. We spend a lot of money defending, appealing, feeding, educating, making them comfortable, only to have those released returned to prison if they are released at a very high rate for repeat crimes. Tookie did more than murder four innocent people in cold blood with no feelings at all, he also was accused of assault, rape, robbery. He was a menace to society and created an argument that never should have happened because some people are so gullible to believe he was a "good" guy now because he co-wrote a couple of books. I totally support the death penalty and feel the argument that "murdering" someone by execution is the same as any other murder doesn't hold any water. That is a legal punishment and was carried out by the state in a much more humane manner than he murdered his victims. Society has a responsibility to protect itself and that's why we have laws, law enforcement, the courts, appeals, etc. The punishment for capital crimes is well known and if someone chooses to ignore it, then they have to suffer the consequences.

And, BTW, no system is perfect, but you have to have a system or there would be anarchy!

 

[Demelza]

Does anyone really think that being in prison is a walk in the park? That inmates are lounging around, sunning themselves, eating delicious food? Somehow I doubt this is the case. The idea that everyone starts out in life with equal opportunity to succeed and that some people just choose to commit violent crimes because they are inherently bad or evil is mind-numbingly simplistic. Until we address the reasons that some people turn to crime (racism, inequality, poverty, generational abuse, etc.), we are just spinning our wheels.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 12/23/2005 4:39:32 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Perhaps the next time someone is having a crime committed against them - regardless of what the nature might be, you could give them a hug and understand thier feelings.. or not. Just don't call the police... they carry guns, uphold the law and protect the public.

You can make fun of me for my belief that the issue of crime and punishment is more complicated than the simple binary of good vs evil, but please do not misrepresent what I said. Never did I say that all criminals need is a hug.

Frankly, I do not believe that some people are born inherently bad or evil. Something happens on both a macro and micro (and sometimes biological) level and until there is some attempt to understand and ameliorate the conditions under which some people turn to crime, we will not see a reduction in the crime rate. If all that was needed were tougher and tougher laws, then wouldn't capital punishment solve the problem?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/23/2005 4:39:32 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Perhaps the next time someone is having a crime committed against them - regardless of what the nature might be, you could give them a hug and understand their feelings.. or not. Just don''t call the police... they carry guns, uphold the law and protect the public.

If things were right in the world the victim would call on 1911 then call 911 to pick up the dead scumbag.
But since the age of the wimps is upon us that is only legal in some states.

In a lot of places the cops are worse than the people they arrest.

There are some good ones but I feel sorry for the minority that are because the majority are power trippin people abusing thugs.
It is even taught that way in the academy now.
You have the power use it and abuse it just look for vid camera''s first.
Break into the wrong house and kill the homeowner and get away with it.
Happens every couple months and they wonder why they dont get any respect.
imho the cops and the criminals are different sides of the same coin and along with the rest of the criminal system.
Cant call it the justice system because there is no justice in it.

my rant for the day :}

 

[fire&ice]

Here''s the disconnect. I do believe in evil & it is in the PRESENT tense. What may have shaped a monster is irrelavent once someone sneaks into an innocents home aphixiate to the point of death with a homemade contraption OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN while pleasuring himself. Then deciding to slice a little & eventually the aphixiation is permanent.

That monster needs to be taken out PERMANENTLY. THe damage has already been done. I don''t give a rat''s butt about someone like that just because his mother was mean to him. Was he a victim? Debateable - but his actions ARE HIS actions.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 12/23/2005 5:57:07 PM
Author: fire&ice

That monster needs to be taken out PERMANENTLY. THe damage has already been done. I don''t give a rat''s butt about someone like that just because his mother was mean to him. Was he a victim? Debateable - but his actions ARE HIS actions.

\\

Amen... I agree wholeheartedly. I HATE the thought that someone can use thier past to excuse THEIR actions... That''s Bull$hit. Cry me a friggin river!

 

[movie zombie]

"I also have a major issue with the free college degrees these inmates receive. Those that get law degrees use them to sue the state for their "inhumane" treatment because they dont'' have soft toilet paper or cable tv or good food. And, we, the taxpayers get to pay for it their court time, etc. " Momoftwo, can you provide documentation for this statement?

Storm, i''m there with you re bad cops ....as well as with Deb and Demzela. and Mara echos the opinion of many i know who say they could support the death penalty if our justice system wasn''t so very very broken.

re vengenance for the vicitims: how must they feel when they find out 10-15 years later that the wrong person was punished and the guilty person was still free to commit crime? and what kind of justice can the person who was wrongly punished receive after the fact? as in diamonds and jewels, $$$ talks....and the justice system is no better. s/he that can afford a good attorney may escape ''justice'' but s/he that can''t afford a good attorney may never receive Justice.

peace, movie zombie

 

[Demelza]

Date: 12/23/2005 7:08:21 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 12/23/2005 5:57:07 PM

Author: fire&ice


That monster needs to be taken out PERMANENTLY. THe damage has already been done. I don't give a rat's butt about someone like that just because his mother was mean to him. Was he a victim? Debateable - but his actions ARE HIS actions.

\


Amen... I agree wholeheartedly. I HATE the thought that someone can use thier past to excuse THEIR actions... That's Bull$hit. Cry me a friggin river!

I'm not sure there is any reason to respond here, but I'm feeling frustrated that my points continue to be misrepresented. Disagree with them if you must, but please do not apply to them the reductive logic against which I'm arguing. No one ever said anything about making excuses. Again with the simple binaries: either you support the death penalty or you believe that criminals shouldn't be held responsible because they had bad childhoods? Either you sympathize with the criminals or the victims? These are NOT the only options. Isn't it possible that addressing the issues underlying violent crime (on both a macro and micro level) might be helpful in preventing it? Yes, this is much more difficult, time consuming, and perhaps less satisfying in the short term than putting criminals to death, but at least it is proactive rather than reactive. Perhaps we need to shift our focus away from venegance to something a bit more useful -- like cause and effect.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 12/23/2005 5:57:07 PM
Author: fire&ice
That monster needs to be taken out PERMANENTLY.

Taken out of society, yes. The safety of society does not demand he be killed.

On the Eve of Christmas I will tell the Christians present that I do not believe Jesus would have flipped the switch on an electric chair or administered a lethal injection.

I believe, personally, that there is a little bad in the best of us and a little good in the worst of us and that God is within all of us.

I wish a Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it and I wish love to everyone reading this no matter what his beliefs.

Deborah

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 12/24/2005 12:07:11 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 12/23/2005 5:57:07 PM
Author: fire&ice
That monster needs to be taken out PERMANENTLY.

Taken out of society, yes. The safety of society does not demand he be killed.

On the Eve of Christmas I will tell the Christians present that I do not believe Jesus would have flipped the switch on an electric chair or administered a lethal injection.

I believe, personally, that there is a little bad in the best of us and a little good in the worst of us and that God is within all of us.
Deborah

I do not believe what you believe. That''s the disconnect. I think this person was dead inside already.

And, this person was in prision on another crime. Then, he became under some sort of house arrest. I suppose this gave him the time to think up his killing machine. After a time, he wanted to try it. He escaped on the numerous times he tortured, raped, maimed and killed people you KNEW - TAKING THE BUS for pete''s sake.

Prisions ARE NOT secure. They are NOT permanent. The Briley Brothers were on death row. They escaped to brutally murder several innocent people once again.

Again, my view point is simple. The world is safer without these monsters. The victims are clear - the tortured dead. And, there by the grace of God, a deadbolt, a thought to lock the deadbolt & my dog who went ballistic (HIGHLY UNUSUAL) go I. Didn''t think a second thought about it when I came face to face with an individual (who didn''t match ANYTHING about "FBI profile") just outside by front porch. When he was arrested, I glanced at the front page and threw up instantly. I would not feel safe to this day if this monster wasn''t dead. The evidence was OVERWHELMING - he never denied it. It''s personal with me.

I don''t think anyone doesn''t believe in fixing the problem before it happens. I won''t convince anyone of what I believe. But, another disconnect - I don''t see debating the death penalty & trying to reach someone before they become criminal is related. The future is the future. The present is the reality.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 12/24/2005 12:46:01 PM
Author: fire&ice
I do not believe what you believe. That''s the disconnect.

Yes it is. And and we are not going to convince each other about our deepest personal convictions, so I will respectfully agree to disagree with you. Merry Chistmas!

Deborah

 

[Matata]

So much bitterness, anger, fear and righteous indignation in this discussion. I have perpetual hope that the Demelza''s & AGBFs of this world outnumber those who are hostage to their personal unconquered demons. Forgiveness is oft times the most difficult thing to achieve but it is the only thing that sets one free and cleanses the soul.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 12/24/2005 4:05:38 PM
Author: Matata
So much bitterness, anger, fear and righteous indignation in this discussion. I have perpetual hope that the Demelza''s & AGBFs of this world outnumber those who are hostage to their personal unconquered demons. Forgiveness is oft times the most difficult thing to achieve but it is the only thing that sets one free and cleanses the soul.

nicely stated, Matata!

peace,movie zombie

 

[MINE!!]

Sugar coating insults.. yummy Christmas Candy... we hope the same for AGBF and Demezla as well matata.

 

[fire&ice]

Yanno - never mind. I'm so done with this discussion. I will leave it that I believe in the death penalty.