Skippy123
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Letter from a concerned and turned off PS member - now a Permanently turned off PSer
- Thread starter ringster
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iheartscience
Super_Ideal_Rock
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strmrdr
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MoonWater
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Then fine, correct that person. I am certainly not guilty of such a thing. But I have been subjected to comments (some of which directly aimed at me) which I have found racist. I bit my tongue for the most part to keep the peace (not to mention it was subtle and I did not have the patience to reprimand it with calm, I would have been banned, believe me). But seeing it stay there, hanging in the thread, EVEN AFTER REPORTING IT and then reading the things said to Wishful made me nearly snap yesterday. For people to sit here all day dissing "them" you know, those muslims, and for no one to have a problem with it is disgusting. For people to do it due to some belief in Christian superiority is flat out wrong. And for someone to point out that fact is NOT slamming religion.
luckystar112
Ideal_Rock
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Agreed. And strm added more to his original post that I agree with as well. I wish I could add more to his comments (not about religion, as I don''t ever discuss it here) without getting in trouble, but let''s just say I totally see the double standard (and I''m not calling anyone out, so don''t take it that way anyone!).
Ok, that was confusing. whoo.
MoonWater
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brazen_irish_hussy
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I also vote to keep the ATW. There have certainly been things here that horrify me, but I think its good that I know those people are out there and why they believe what they believe.
And this forum can lead to good things as well. Besides my discovering a number of good sites about politics posted, there were things like Ellen''s thread about why she should vote Obama that I thought was an amazing use of the internet to bring people together in a positive way.
And this forum can lead to good things as well. Besides my discovering a number of good sites about politics posted, there were things like Ellen''s thread about why she should vote Obama that I thought was an amazing use of the internet to bring people together in a positive way.
strmrdr
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purrfectpear
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Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as the basis of moral reflection and decision-making.
So in my case at least, not true. There are quite a few religions which view that all races are created equal, accept other religions as valid, and accept gender and orientation as equal.
I will not discuss those religions, but to imply that if you do not belong to a religion that does not reject those views you must be secular humanist is incorrect.
MoonWater
Ideal_Rock
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luckystar112
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Moon, are you referring to the new threads? I''m going to have to look but I don''t remember anyone doing that besides me. And my posts were deleted (and I went there to clear the air before my best friend just HAD to insult my character....again). And I got a warning for posting the link to women against the anti-palin ad because it was related to Obama....meanwhile the dem thread was page after page of bashing Palin. I inquired about the rules again, since I thought that was a tad weird...and I never heard back.
Point is: Reporting the threads apparently isn''t working and emails are going unread or ignored.
I hope I don''t get in trouble for posting that, but hey, everyone else is talking about it.
Off to go eat!!!!!
Point is: Reporting the threads apparently isn''t working and emails are going unread or ignored.
I hope I don''t get in trouble for posting that, but hey, everyone else is talking about it.
Off to go eat!!!!!
MoonWater
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Kaleigh
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MoonWater
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Date: 11/8/2008 9:05:57 PM
Author: luckystar112
Moon, are you referring to the new threads? I''m going to have to look but I don''t remember anyone doing that besides me. And my posts were deleted (and I went there to clear the air before my best friend just HAD to insult my character....again). And I got a warning for posting the link to women against the anti-palin ad because it was related to Obama....meanwhile the dem thread was page after page of bashing Palin. I inquired about the rules again, since I thought that was a tad weird...and I never heard back.
Point is: Reporting the threads apparently isn''t working and emails are going unread or ignored.
I hope I don''t get in trouble for posting that, but hey, everyone else is talking about it.
Off to go eat!!!!!
No, I''m not talking about new threads and I''m not thinking of you, although I think you did post but you were always positive which I thank you for.
purrfectpear
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strmrdr
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I haven''t read the 2 threads referred to, but also feel it would be too bad if there wasn''t a ATW forum. Though I do have to admit I have been horrified and upset at some of the posts I have read, as well as educated and supported by others. I wish we could talk about ANY issue in a calm considerate manner in ATW including politics, world news, philosophy, ethics, religion, AND cupcakes. But I guess that is too much to ask for.
purrfectpear
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With that statement we are in agreement. I don''t think for a minute that all political (much less religious) beliefs must agree with mine. I do wish there weren''t people who believed in class brutality, who denied others equal civil rights, or pitted subjugated groups against one another (blacks were responsible for the passing of Prop 8
iheartscience
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Date: 11/8/2008 9:53:40 PM
Author: purrfectpear
With that statement we are in agreement. I don''t think for a minute that all political (much less religious) beliefs must agree with mine. I do wish there weren''t people who believed in class brutality, who denied others equal civil rights, or pitted subjugated groups against one another (blacks were responsible for the passing of Prop 8), but they exist.
I agree with you completely, purrfectpear.
Italiahaircolor
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First of all Ringster, I''m sorry you''re feeling so *frusterated* about the ATW section of the forum.
I am liberal thinker---I believe strongly in equal rights for all regardless, and Roe v Wade, and I love that our country is maturing in the way it thinks, even if its a slow going process...but, thats me--and thats my personal belief system...but it''s because I believe in all of those things, I cannot get behind sensoring anyone, even if they have different views than I do.
Truth be told, I avoided ATW for the most part during the election because it hurt me to hear people openly discriminate against others, but that doesn''t mean they don''t have the right too. It that''s what they believe, thats on them. Who am I to judge? And a few days ago I actually made my first posting on ATW about the latest developments on Sarah Palin, and it was pulled off the site. That bothered me, because I felt that the posting was innocent in its intend...and I''ve certainly seen worse...but, that''s life.
But you know what...I like PS to much to let one or ten or even twenty peoples feelings or ideals effect my experience here. I enjoy this site and the majority of people who use it.
I am liberal thinker---I believe strongly in equal rights for all regardless, and Roe v Wade, and I love that our country is maturing in the way it thinks, even if its a slow going process...but, thats me--and thats my personal belief system...but it''s because I believe in all of those things, I cannot get behind sensoring anyone, even if they have different views than I do.
Truth be told, I avoided ATW for the most part during the election because it hurt me to hear people openly discriminate against others, but that doesn''t mean they don''t have the right too. It that''s what they believe, thats on them. Who am I to judge? And a few days ago I actually made my first posting on ATW about the latest developments on Sarah Palin, and it was pulled off the site. That bothered me, because I felt that the posting was innocent in its intend...and I''ve certainly seen worse...but, that''s life.
But you know what...I like PS to much to let one or ten or even twenty peoples feelings or ideals effect my experience here. I enjoy this site and the majority of people who use it.
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Just for the record, I have no knowledge of anything regarding class brutality (what is that anyway?) or pitting groups against one another. I did see a news headline about blacks supporting Obama but not prop 8. But I never even read the article. So I am not sure what the discussions were that caused this thread. All my comments are general regarding the political threads that were primarily posted before the election. So keep in mind that I am not defending any individuals or threads.Date: 11/8/2008 9:56:28 PM
Author: thing2of2
Date: 11/8/2008 9:53:40 PM
Author: purrfectpear
With that statement we are in agreement. I don''t think for a minute that all political (much less religious) beliefs must agree with mine. I do wish there weren''t people who believed in class brutality, who denied others equal civil rights, or pitted subjugated groups against one another (blacks were responsible for the passing of Prop 8), but they exist.
I agree with you completely, purrfectpear.
mia1181
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PurrfectPear I think you are so right about how dissing someones ring will get you in so much trouble around here, but at the same time people just overlook hateful statements in the political thread.
I noticed the prop 8 thread was missing this morning when I woke up so I''m guessing it got pretty ugly. I have to admit it made me pretty angry. If the topic was Wishful''s engagement ring noone would have written against her. I realize this is a political forum, but I would have thought people could be sensitive to her.
I don''t know how I feel about ATW staying or going. Personally, I try and stay away from too much political talk because it usually seems like people pick their sides and then just argue. You rarely see someone go "yeah wow I never thought of it that way..." So I have no problem staying out if I don''t like what I see.
trillionaire
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I like ATW. I also don''t usually engage in anger evoking banter. If I can''t handle what is being said, I leave, or leave it alone, for the most part. I understand that that is difficult to do. Many of us learn a lot from each other, even in disagreement, on this forum. I hope it persists, and people just take breaks when they need it.
diamondfan
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Moon, I feel that was extraordinarily inappropriate. I am trying to point out that some people view things ONE way. If they are NOT open to other views, they are indeed, to me, closedminded. Who is to say what is right or fair or acceptable to all? If you believe one way, you believe what you believe. That does NOT make it right for someone else. That IS the definition of closed minded, not being able to see past YOUR opinion or belief to see there might be another way. That does NOT mean they must AGREE, just see there is more than way to do things.
LaraOnline
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I think religion SHOULD be discussed, in AtW, and in other forums, including the workplace and other real life arenas of social interaction.
Religion is often used as a motivator for really great activities around the world, including charities and particularly third world assistance efforts. The Catholic Church''s involvement in Africa has been really viciously and unfairly maligned as being somehow related to the spread of AIDs in African countries.
I think much of the good that organised religions do around the world has been unfairly denigrated, due to the kinds of issues that can spring up in all kinds of organisations, eg sexual abuse and other human failings. But these issues arise within all types of organisations, not just churches!
However, religious beliefs and organisations - and athiests, and secular humanists for that matter - do need to be held to some level of accountability, and social discussion, that leads to education for all, is a part of that process.
IMO anyway
Religion is often used as a motivator for really great activities around the world, including charities and particularly third world assistance efforts. The Catholic Church''s involvement in Africa has been really viciously and unfairly maligned as being somehow related to the spread of AIDs in African countries.
I think much of the good that organised religions do around the world has been unfairly denigrated, due to the kinds of issues that can spring up in all kinds of organisations, eg sexual abuse and other human failings. But these issues arise within all types of organisations, not just churches!
However, religious beliefs and organisations - and athiests, and secular humanists for that matter - do need to be held to some level of accountability, and social discussion, that leads to education for all, is a part of that process.
IMO anyway
MoonWater
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See, I actually agreed with your original post and this one here. What I was trying to do was point out what you said which I'm absolutely certain someone else would find offensive, that is, being considered "closed minded." Some people around here consider that a personal attack. I simply find it kind of ironic that in your post where you said people should lay off such offenses, you inadvertently committed one yourself.
miraclesrule
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ringster: I am sad that you feel embarrassed about the ATW threads. Personally, it is my humble opinion that PS is a diamond education forum, but by extension, it is a community. Part of community means that Americans will deliberate with one another. Citizen participation changes everything.
The general publics ignorance is appalling by any standard. A researcher in the citizen engagement field noted that "The political ignorance of the American voter is one of the best documented features of American politics."
We are supposed to deliberate with our neighbors...our online community even...although we should be able to disagree without violence in our thoughts or in our posts. I thnk that the majority of people on this forum make every attempt to deliberate in a spirit of education and provocative ideas.
It is true that there have been some very bitter and caustic posts, but that is the nature of deliberation. It doesn''t have to escalate to violence.
If we are not allowed to deliberate during a presidential race in a time where our global reputation and economic crisis is not to be discussed because a few peope with thin skins or narrow minds become attack dogs, then we will abdicate our roles as informed and engaged citizens. Ordinary people are supposed to run things. I for one am proud of the willingness of Ali and the moderators to suspend whatever personal bias they may have in order to allow these threads.
i have done the opposite. I think I have gotten at least 5 more addicts to PS for the entire package ...from SMTR to BWW to Family, to STW and pretty soon I am going to get my ass over to the diamond studs thread. But I have 6 months to plot my earrings. Until then, I just want to pray that hate is overpowered by our collective desire to do what is right. I have a great deal of faith in our youth.
I would not hesitate to report an attack on this board and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to identify the guilty hate an fear mongering attackers. The key to dealing with this distubing posts is to ignore them completely, or to try to feel what the person is really afraid i the attacks and try what you can to educate them on any misinformation they may have. If it is futile, I suggest you move on...as it isn''t worth your mental and physical health to engage in a battle of ideiology...as there is never a winner.
The general publics ignorance is appalling by any standard. A researcher in the citizen engagement field noted that "The political ignorance of the American voter is one of the best documented features of American politics."
We are supposed to deliberate with our neighbors...our online community even...although we should be able to disagree without violence in our thoughts or in our posts. I thnk that the majority of people on this forum make every attempt to deliberate in a spirit of education and provocative ideas.
It is true that there have been some very bitter and caustic posts, but that is the nature of deliberation. It doesn''t have to escalate to violence.
If we are not allowed to deliberate during a presidential race in a time where our global reputation and economic crisis is not to be discussed because a few peope with thin skins or narrow minds become attack dogs, then we will abdicate our roles as informed and engaged citizens. Ordinary people are supposed to run things. I for one am proud of the willingness of Ali and the moderators to suspend whatever personal bias they may have in order to allow these threads.
i have done the opposite. I think I have gotten at least 5 more addicts to PS for the entire package ...from SMTR to BWW to Family, to STW and pretty soon I am going to get my ass over to the diamond studs thread. But I have 6 months to plot my earrings. Until then, I just want to pray that hate is overpowered by our collective desire to do what is right. I have a great deal of faith in our youth.
I would not hesitate to report an attack on this board and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to identify the guilty hate an fear mongering attackers. The key to dealing with this distubing posts is to ignore them completely, or to try to feel what the person is really afraid i the attacks and try what you can to educate them on any misinformation they may have. If it is futile, I suggest you move on...as it isn''t worth your mental and physical health to engage in a battle of ideiology...as there is never a winner.
diamondfan
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Moon, I cannot pretend I am without SOME bias. I understand that some people adhere to more strict doctrines. My point in my example was that, hey, if you truly believe that X is bad, well, I might think you are being closed off to other truths, and while I might PERSONALLY dislike that, I understand that you feel it. (you being the general not personal you). Meaning, whether or not I view it as limited, I can respect your view, as long as you do not try to change ME, and you accept my views as valid in my world. The minute someone things THEIR way is IT, the ONLY right way, I have a tougher time. But I must be able to leave my bias at the door and have a respect for differences, even if they are totally against what I think it right.
MoonWater
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