Letter from a concerned and turned off PS member - now a Permanently turned off PSer

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:13:43 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:05:13 AM

Author: Linda W





T-Gal, it was just that whole stupid thread and I am so glad it was deleted. I really don''t want to go over everything.


One part that just tore my heart out for Wishful was when you were referring to the way gays think. Not you, but generalizing somewhat. '' gay''s don''t think they are morally wrong''. May not be your definite quote here.''

Wishfuls quote'' I can''t be morally wrong, I am just a person, just a person''. For some reason, Those sentences made me burst out crying. (I don''t even get PMS anymore either!!!!!!!) The whole thread was just heartbreaking. Other posters ripped her apart and she said she won''t be back. She hasn''t posted since.


Here this little 22 year old girl, was so happy getting married, they bought their dresses and rings, etc. and got blasted in that thread.


Growing up in the Bay Area and working and retiring from my job in San Francisco I have known and worked with a lot of gays and Lesbians. I feel as my husband does, they have rights also, but that is our opinion.


I love ya T-Gal and I don''t want any ill feelings between us.

Linda, I adore you and there could never be any ill feelings between us (at least on my end). Your presence on the mommy thread is a constant joy for me.


Honestly, her comment broke my heart too. Made me tear up. When she said it, I realized I put my foot my my mouth.


And I do think you misread what I said (thank goodness).


I did not say gays do not think they are morally wrong. I was TRYING to explain WHY many of the religious right have not gotten to the point where they can support gay marriage yet. I do think many have gay friends. Many support equal rights. But somewhere, deeply entrenched in the doctrine of what they believe is that homosexuality is morally wrong. I stated in that post that it''s not what *I* believe.


It was my lame a** way of trying to answer how *anyone* could possibly vote in favor of prop 8, because it was a question that was rampantly because asked, albeit rhetorically, that evening. It was not the right place for me to try and play devil''s advocate on a thread that was so charged and when Wishful was so obviously distraught. I have been known to have brain farts and say things at inopportune moments.


For that, I sincerely apologize.

There is no need to apologize T-Gal. I am So Glad, we had this chat. I feel so much better now, after talking to you. You are right, I misread what you said. It was my fault, as I was so upset by that whole thread and for WishfulThinking. I do hope she comes back.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:24:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:22:26 AM

Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/10/2008 1:12:03 AM

Author: strmrdr

They aren''t conservative threads they are liberals beating up on conservative threads.

I''m sure conservatives could have sat around for hours and hours enjoying a quiet, thoughtful discussion on ''Farakahn Hearts Obama''. Shame those liberals had to bust in and ''debate''.

If ''beating up'' is what liberals do to conservatives. What is it exactly that conservatives do to liberals?

Beatin'' down girl, Beatin'' DOWN!

Ha!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:24:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:22:26 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/10/2008 1:12:03 AM
Author: strmrdr
They aren''t conservative threads they are liberals beating up on conservative threads.

If ''beating up'' is what liberals do to conservatives. What is it exactly that conservatives do to liberals?

Beatin'' down girl, Beatin'' DOWN!

I''m def. not visiting my sister in LA now ... too dangerous!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:30:10 AM
Author: Linda W



There is no need to apologize T-Gal. I am So Glad, we had this chat. I feel so much better now, after talking to you. You are right, I misread what you said. It was my fault, as I was so upset by that whole thread and for WishfulThinking. I do hope she comes back.

Me too! (although we broke another PS rule by talking about "personal" issuess. Hahaha.)

Not sure if you did read my final post to Wishful. I had never done a search on her posts before and saw her wedding photos and a lot of other threads for the first time. I found her insightful, sincere and always polite and told her I wished I had seen them before as she does a lot to continually expand my horizons. I do wish she''ll come back as well.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:32:35 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/10/2008 1:24:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:22:26 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 11/10/2008 1:12:03 AM
Author: strmrdr
They aren''t conservative threads they are liberals beating up on conservative threads.

If ''beating up'' is what liberals do to conservatives. What is it exactly that conservatives do to liberals?

Beatin'' down girl, Beatin'' DOWN!

I''m def. not visiting my sister in LA now ... too dangerous!

It''s OK Deco, we''re a blue state!

 

[vintagecushion]

Yes, the political forums can get heated but the real issue is/was a total lapse in civility. I am heartbroken for Wishful, not because others in this forum have disagreed with her but because of their appallingly rude and vicious way of disagreeing.

Bickering over political affiliations even after something like this has happened is beyond me. I''d like to point out that she never once stooped to that level and actually tried to leave politely and repeatedly and then was chastised for expressing her frustration.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:49:39 AM
Author: vintagecushion
Yes, the political forums can get heated but the real issue is/was a total lapse in civility. I am heartbroken for Wishful, not because others in this forum have disagreed with her but because of their appallingly rude and vicious way of disagreeing.


Bickering over political affiliations even after something like this has happened is beyond me. I''d like to point out that she never once stooped to that level and actually tried to leave politely and repeatedly and then was chastised for expressing her frustration.

Yes, I agree VC!! That is why I and others have stated that the Prop 8 thread made us sick.

 

[vintagecushion]

I know, Linda. I can''t tell you how troubled I''ve been every time I thought about it. No matter what your beliefs are, when you can see that someone has been hit and is in pain, back off already!

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:04:56 AM
Author: vintagecushion
I know, Linda. I can''t tell you how troubled I''ve been every time I thought about it. No matter what your beliefs are, when you can see that someone has been hit and is in pain, back off already!

That is why I stated in that thread, enough is enough.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:07:23 AM
Author: Linda W

Date: 11/10/2008 2:04:56 AM
Author: vintagecushion
I know, Linda. I can''t tell you how troubled I''ve been every time I thought about it. No matter what your beliefs are, when you can see that someone has been hit and is in pain, back off already!

That is why I stated in that thread, enough is enough.

Out of curiosity, did that thread continue until it was deleted (whenever that was)?

It was quiet on Thursday night I believe. I thought about it a bit that night and went out of my way to post to Wishful my hopes that she would stay on Friday morning before I left.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:10:35 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:07:23 AM

Author: Linda W

Date: 11/10/2008 2:04:56 AM

Author: vintagecushion

I know, Linda. I can''t tell you how troubled I''ve been every time I thought about it. No matter what your beliefs are, when you can see that someone has been hit and is in pain, back off already!

That is why I stated in that thread, enough is enough.

Out of curiosity, did that thread continue until it was deleted (whenever that was)?


It was quiet on Thursday night I believe. I thought about it a bit that night and went out of my way to post to Wishful my hopes that she would stay on Friday morning before I left.

T-Gal, I don''t know. I went to bed and when I got up in the morning, it was gone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i wanted to post my opinion on the prop 8 thread,but i decided to keep my mouth shut. why don't you guys behave like Dfire ?

i don't get into an argument with anybody on PS.

btw; i voted YES on prop 8

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:14:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i wanted to post my opinion on the prop 8 thread,but i decided to keep my mouth shut. why don''t you guys behave like Dfire ?

i don''t get into an argument with anybody on PS.


btw; i voted YES on prop 8

HA DF, you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions. I still love ya.

 

[vintagecushion]

Linda, exactly! I feel like there's an attitude that suggests that being nasty is the nature of political debate whereas I feel nastiness is just that and political fervor is often used as an excuse.

TravelingGal, the thread went to some odd random places after you left, that's for sure!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:13:35 AM
Author: Linda W



T-Gal, I don''t know. I went to bed and when I got up in the morning, it was gone.

That''s strange Linda. I posted on it at about 9 or 10ish on Friday morning. I didn''t read the thread after that, but I could have sworn I saw it on Friday evening (TGuy and I stopped by the Sony Store in Vegas and I went and checked out their new laptops - so of course I stopped by PS. Saw the thread on ATW but didn''t have time to open it. Of course, I had shared a bottle of wine with TGuy that evening so I could have been hallucinating).

It''s not a big deal, but I''m just confused because I never saw your post Linda stating enough is enough, nor did I see any posts berating her for leaving (granted, I did not read carefully on Friday morning since we were in a hurry to leave). Only ones asking her to stay, and then I added a pretty long post to her on Friday morning.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:17:05 AM
Author: vintagecushion
Linda, exactly! I feel like there''s an attitude that suggests that being nasty is the nature of political debate whereas I feel nastiness is just that and political fervor is often used as an excuse.

TravelingGal, the thread went to some odd random places after you left, that''s for sure!

VC, ah, OK. Thanks.

I don''t think about posts on PS much after I log off, but Wishful''s last post really struck me, which is why I went out of my way to write one more thing to her before I left on my trip.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:18:55 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:13:35 AM

Author: Linda W




T-Gal, I don''t know. I went to bed and when I got up in the morning, it was gone.

That''s strange Linda. I posted on it at about 9 or 10ish on Friday morning. I didn''t read the thread after that, but I could have sworn I saw it on Friday evening (TGuy and I stopped by the Sony Store in Vegas and I went and checked out their new laptops - so of course I stopped by PS. Saw the thread on ATW but didn''t have time to open it. Of course, I had shared a bottle of wine with TGuy that evening so I could have been hallucinating).


It''s not a big deal, but I''m just confused because I never saw your post Linda stating enough is enough, nor did I see any posts berating her for leaving (granted, I did not read carefully on Friday morning since we were in a hurry to leave). Only ones asking her to stay, and then I added a pretty long post to her on Friday morning.

Yes, I posted, enough is enough and something else, but my post was ignored. When I got up in the morning (I slept in until about 11:00a.m) the thread was gone.

 

[mia1181]

Date: 11/10/2008 1:32:57 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:30:10 AM
Author: Linda W



There is no need to apologize T-Gal. I am So Glad, we had this chat. I feel so much better now, after talking to you. You are right, I misread what you said. It was my fault, as I was so upset by that whole thread and for WishfulThinking. I do hope she comes back.

Me too! (although we broke another PS rule by talking about ''personal'' issuess. Hahaha.)

Not sure if you did read my final post to Wishful. I had never done a search on her posts before and saw her wedding photos and a lot of other threads for the first time. I found her insightful, sincere and always polite and told her I wished I had seen them before as she does a lot to continually expand my horizons. I do wish she''ll come back as well.

See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn''t know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I''m not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn''t vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don''t remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren''t intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It''s funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one''s perspective. Maybe that''s why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We''ve followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

 

[mia1181]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:14:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i wanted to post my opinion on the prop 8 thread,but i decided to keep my mouth shut. why don''t you guys behave like Dfire ?

i don''t get into an argument with anybody on PS.

btw; i voted YES on prop 8

Actually you didn''t leave your mouth completely shut. As I recall you wrote something to the effect of "I''m not telling how I voted on this one" and I''m pretty sure it was accompanied by one of these emoticons -->

So we knew exactly how you voted. In fact, I am pretty sure all of the responses before yours were in favor of the No vote and supporting Wishful. So I''m not really sure why you felt the need to chime in. As I said before you could have let it go. You didn''t have to write anything at all.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM
Author: mia1181

Date: 11/10/2008 1:32:57 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 1:30:10 AM
Author: Linda W



There is no need to apologize T-Gal. I am So Glad, we had this chat. I feel so much better now, after talking to you. You are right, I misread what you said. It was my fault, as I was so upset by that whole thread and for WishfulThinking. I do hope she comes back.

Me too! (although we broke another PS rule by talking about 'personal' issuess. Hahaha.)

Not sure if you did read my final post to Wishful. I had never done a search on her posts before and saw her wedding photos and a lot of other threads for the first time. I found her insightful, sincere and always polite and told her I wished I had seen them before as she does a lot to continually expand my horizons. I do wish she'll come back as well.

See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn't know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I'm not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn't vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don't remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren't intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It's funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one's perspective. Maybe that's why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We've followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

I do agree mia.

I have been on PS along time, but I don't post as often as some...and I really am bad at reading all the threads. I looked up some of Wishful's posts that night and realized I had missed her wedding thread, and several threads on gay marriage where she said many profound things.

I went to bed thinking about it. And that's why I got up in the morning and made my one post to PS that day (I think it was anyway).

I did not vote for or against prop 8. If people really want to know why the "opposition" thinks the way I do, I just wanted to throw in where I have come from and where I am going on this issue. Alj made a very good point on that thread that calm discussion goes a long way to change minds vs rants and flailing fists. Wishful then posted a very heartfelt post on the fact that she is just a person, and why does she always *have* to be calm - when she was justifiably angry (or something like that).

People ranting, calling others ignorant and stupid for what they believe in do not sway my views. My gay friends DO sway my views because we have heartfelt discussions about where we've all come from. Wishful's story (after I read it) touched me. This battle will be won one person at a time, and I believe it is important to have someone like Wishful around - just to be herself and post about her life.

 

[vintagecushion]

Author: mia1181

Tgal- I'm not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn't vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don't remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren't intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It's funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one's perspective. Maybe that's why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We've followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

Ditto to all of this. Intentions do matter and it's obvious when someone wants to debate politely like TravelingGal, and when someone wants to be rude.

I love a good debate. I mean politics is my field. But to act like there isn't a person behind policy decisions when that person is right in front of you?

Ok, I think I'm done. I'd better look at that thread about tuna sandwiches...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM
Author: mia1181





See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn''t know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I''m not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn''t vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don''t remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren''t intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It''s funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one''s perspective. Maybe that''s why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We''ve followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

btw, one more thing. While it doesn''t justify ANY rudeness (intentional or not), not everyone is good at following stories. I read none of wishful''s threads on her wedding planning or elopement. I''m stuck on the boring mommy threads. If people were assuming everyone knew Wishful''s situation, they would have been wrong in my case. My bad for not clicking "find all posts" though!

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:34:59 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM

Author: mia1181








See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn''t know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I''m not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn''t vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don''t remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren''t intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It''s funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one''s perspective. Maybe that''s why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We''ve followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

btw, one more thing. While it doesn''t justify ANY rudeness (intentional or not), not everyone is good at following stories. I read none of wishful''s threads on her wedding planning or elopement. I''m stuck on the boring mommy threads. If people were assuming everyone knew Wishful''s situation, they would have been wrong in my case. My bad for not clicking ''find all posts'' though!

Boring mommy threads???? NO WAY!!! Those threads are so peaceful and comforting and absolutely adorable. I LOVE those threads. Amelia is sooooooooooooo precious. I love looking at those beautiful babies.

 

[mia1181]

I do agree mia.

I have been on PS along time, but I don''t post as often as some...and I really am bad at reading all the threads. I looked up some of Wishful''s posts that night and realized I had missed her wedding thread, and several threads on gay marriage where she said many profound things.

I went to bed thinking about it. And that''s why I got up in the morning and made my one post to PS that day (I think it was anyway).

I did not vote for or against prop 8. If people really want to know why the ''opposition'' thinks the way I do, I just wanted to throw in where I have come from and where I am going on this issue. Alj made a very good point on that thread that calm discussion goes a long way to change minds vs rants and flailing fists. Wishful then posted a very heartfelt post on the fact that she is just a person, and why does she always *have* to be calm - when she was justifiably angry (or something like that).

People ranting, calling others ignorant and stupid for what they believe in do not sway my views. My gay friends DO sway my views because we have heartfelt discussions about where we''ve all come from. Wishful''s story (after I read it) touched me. This battle will be won one person at a time, and I believe it is important to have someone like Wishful around - just to be herself and post about her life.

Wow I am very impressed with you Tgal. Perhaps I wouldn''t cringe at the thought of a politics discussion if more people were like you. IRL and around here I avoid politics because many people are so black and white. You seem to see the grey also (or is it gray?).

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:39:40 AM
Author: Linda W




Boring mommy threads???? NO WAY!!! Those threads are so peaceful and comforting and absolutely adorable. I LOVE those threads. Amelia is sooooooooooooo precious. I love looking at those beautiful babies.

Ha, thank you! I tell you though, truly those PS babies do light up my day. The pics are awesome. The topics (poo, pee, spitup, etc) are not exactly stirring, although they are interesting to us!

 

[mia1181]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:34:59 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM
Author: mia1181







See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn''t know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I''m not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn''t vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don''t remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren''t intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It''s funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one''s perspective. Maybe that''s why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We''ve followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

btw, one more thing. While it doesn''t justify ANY rudeness (intentional or not), not everyone is good at following stories. I read none of wishful''s threads on her wedding planning or elopement. I''m stuck on the boring mommy threads. If people were assuming everyone knew Wishful''s situation, they would have been wrong in my case. My bad for not clicking ''find all posts'' though!

No I''m pretty sure in Wishful''s first post in the Prop 8 thread she explained her stake in the vote. I thought it was pretty clear that she was just married and was hoping for a good outcome so that she could get her marriage license. If people skipped that part of that thread then yes it is their fault. Sure, we all miss things, but I''m pretty sure eveyone there new she actually just had SS marriage and wasn''t just some person for SS marriage.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:28:58 AM
Author: mia1181

Date: 11/10/2008 2:14:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i wanted to post my opinion on the prop 8 thread,but i decided to keep my mouth shut. why don''t you guys behave like Dfire ?

i don''t get into an argument with anybody on PS.

btw; i voted YES on prop 8

Actually you didn''t leave your mouth completely shut. As I recall you wrote something to the effect of ''I''m not telling how I voted on this one'' and I''m pretty sure it was accompanied by one of these emoticons -->

So we knew exactly how you voted. In fact, I am pretty sure all of the responses before yours were in favor of the No vote and supporting Wishful. So I''m not really sure why you felt the need to chime in. As I said before you could have let it go. You didn''t have to write anything at all.

why ??? only those that voted "No" can post their opinion

anyway, i didn''t post the reason why i voted YES.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:39:52 AM
Author: mia1181

I do agree mia.

I have been on PS along time, but I don''t post as often as some...and I really am bad at reading all the threads. I looked up some of Wishful''s posts that night and realized I had missed her wedding thread, and several threads on gay marriage where she said many profound things.

I went to bed thinking about it. And that''s why I got up in the morning and made my one post to PS that day (I think it was anyway).

I did not vote for or against prop 8. If people really want to know why the ''opposition'' thinks the way I do, I just wanted to throw in where I have come from and where I am going on this issue. Alj made a very good point on that thread that calm discussion goes a long way to change minds vs rants and flailing fists. Wishful then posted a very heartfelt post on the fact that she is just a person, and why does she always *have* to be calm - when she was justifiably angry (or something like that).

People ranting, calling others ignorant and stupid for what they believe in do not sway my views. My gay friends DO sway my views because we have heartfelt discussions about where we''ve all come from. Wishful''s story (after I read it) touched me. This battle will be won one person at a time, and I believe it is important to have someone like Wishful around - just to be herself and post about her life.

Wow I am very impressed with you Tgal. Perhaps I wouldn''t cringe at the thought of a politics discussion if more people were like you. IRL and around here I avoid politics because many people are so black and white. You seem to see the grey also (or is it gray?).

Gray...or Grey, depending on my mood! Either way I think works!

There are lot of people here who are great at sharing their views as well as interested in what others have to say. It''s what keeps me coming back to lurk (and post from time to time - sticking my foot in my mouth). I''ve always said the best thing about traveling is not the sights, sounds or even food...it''s the people you meet. Everyone has a story and I simply like learning about it even though I do not always agree. I voted for Bush in 2000. I voted Kerry in 2004 because I was in Europe in March 2003 when we declared war. I was backpacking by myself and remember watching the protests and feeling so geniunely sad.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:44:16 AM
Author: mia1181

Date: 11/10/2008 2:34:59 AM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM

Author: mia1181










See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn''t know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I''m not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn''t vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don''t remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren''t intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It''s funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one''s perspective. Maybe that''s why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We''ve followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

btw, one more thing. While it doesn''t justify ANY rudeness (intentional or not), not everyone is good at following stories. I read none of wishful''s threads on her wedding planning or elopement. I''m stuck on the boring mommy threads. If people were assuming everyone knew Wishful''s situation, they would have been wrong in my case. My bad for not clicking ''find all posts'' though!

No I''m pretty sure in Wishful''s first post in the Prop 8 thread she explained her stake in the vote. I thought it was pretty clear that she was just married and was hoping for a good outcome so that she could get her marriage license. If people skipped that part of that thread then yes it is their fault. Sure, we all miss things, but I''m pretty sure eveyone there new she actually just had SS marriage and wasn''t just some person for SS marriage.

Yes, Wishful had just gotten married. She was upset that it would be invalid now. I see that she is online and I wish that little sweetheart would post. I wish that she would see that we care for her.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/10/2008 2:44:16 AM
Author: mia1181

Date: 11/10/2008 2:34:59 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/10/2008 2:22:33 AM
Author: mia1181











See, it helps to humanize the issue. People can argue all they want about gay marriage, but in that situation this girl was just married and then just days after, SS marriage was banned, and right now she doesn't know what will happen to her marriage. I understand that ATW is a place to debate politics and maybe some could argue that it was too soon to be discussing it. But people could have just let it go. What could be gained from letting this girl know that you voted against her rights (or would have if you lived in CA)?

Tgal- I'm not picking on you with this. You seem very open to discussion and actually seem to learn from talking to people with differing views. I read above where you said you didn't vote for or against Prop 8 and you were just trying to play devils advocate. And while I don't remember what exactly you wrote in the Prop 8 Thread, it seems like you weren't intending to be hurtful or atleast tried to make ammends with Wishful.

It's funny how putting a real human face and personal story to something like the Prop 8 debate can change one's perspective. Maybe that's why we have felt so strongly in support of Wishful. We've followed her story and hoped for a happy outcome with Prop 8. Then to see people here arguing with her was very upsetting.

btw, one more thing. While it doesn't justify ANY rudeness (intentional or not), not everyone is good at following stories. I read none of wishful's threads on her wedding planning or elopement. I'm stuck on the boring mommy threads. If people were assuming everyone knew Wishful's situation, they would have been wrong in my case. My bad for not clicking 'find all posts' though!

No I'm pretty sure in Wishful's first post in the Prop 8 thread she explained her stake in the vote. I thought it was pretty clear that she was just married and was hoping for a good outcome so that she could get her marriage license. If people skipped that part of that thread then yes it is their fault. Sure, we all miss things, but I'm pretty sure eveyone there new she actually just had SS marriage and wasn't just some person for SS marriage.

Then I fully admit to being a moron. I completely missed it. TGuy is always yelling at me for speed reading.

ETA, there I went speed reading again. I KNEW she was in a SS relationship, and I DID read in her first post on the thread she was married. However I didn't know she had JUST gotten married days earlier by flying to California and eloping. Make sense? Eek.