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Lindsay Lohan Admits to Having Bulimia!!!

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bling*diva*

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~~In the upcoming issue of Vanity Fair magazine, Lindsay admits that she had an eating disorder. This is soooo sad that there is this much going on in her life, and at such a young age, she has had an eating disorder. What about the young fans who look up to her?? First Mary-Kate Olsen, and now Lindsay... where''s Nicole Richie (has anyone seen recent pics of her)???

Lindsay Lohan Admits Bulimia Battle

Nicole Richie Now (Warning: Scary Pic)

~P.S. When Nicole first started losing weight, I thought that she looked good (during the last 2 seasons of the Simple Life). But now, if you enlarge the pic, you can see the bones in her chest sticking out, and she doesn''t look healthy at all. Any opinions on this subject???
 
~~Here is another pic of Nicole, you can actually see the bones in her back... very sad.
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Nicole Wearing a Bikini
 
I''m not surprised one bit about Lindsay Lohan. Honestly I don''t think these pictures are that bad. Laurel Flynn Boyle looked worst than Nicole in my opinion. Yes, if she lost 5-10 more pounds she would be hideous!

Pixx1.jpg
 
Another

Pixx2.jpg
 
These young girls need to eat!! Where is Lindsay''s mom in all of this??
 
yeah you aren't supposed to see the chest bones sticking out like that, and her elbows are like bony knobs...i think she could gain about 10lbs and still be very small.

i read a thing about nicole being so thin and her dad and others have said that she just gets really stressed out and doesn't eat...she may not even realize she does it, but i guess she is the type to either eat too much or not eat at all when things in her life are really stressful. it sounds like she's having a bit of an identity crisis and upheaval in her life, i mean all that drama about paris and her ex-fiance and all that just can't be good for you mentally yanno!

as for lindsay lohan....not surprised either, but that is so so sad.

the saddest part is that the smaller these gals get, the higher 'standard' they set for everyone reading the mags or seeing the news, especially young impressionable girls! i say 'standard' sarcastically of course but that is how many people who read or watch think of it. Wow i'll never be that thin.

the amazing thing is that i was watching charmed reruns over the holidays from about 3 years ago, alyssa milano who has always been 'thin' was maybe 10 lbs heavier than she is now and she is wearing things that show her belly and tight pants etc and i am looking at the show catching myself going 'wow she looks kind of pudgy!' even though in reality she is tiny...but compared to today's girls she looks chubbier. ...well ffwd to this season's shows and she is thinner and her hip bones show a bit and she still wears belly baring items but she is more concave in the belly etc, just like nicole and the other girls who have lost weight too. and now we (general tv watching public) think oh that is more how they are supposed to look, myself included even though i know better. it just sticks in your head.

it just seems like whatever is the 'norm' at the time is what is attractive, aka these small boned, tiny shouldered, anorexic girls are what the general public thinks is the norm. but 3 years ago alyssa was most likely sporting what was 'normal' at the time then in terms of body and structure.

does this make sense? i'm rambling! anyway, its sad that these are what is 'normal' now! it makes other women seem like they are overweight even if they are not.
 
She is significantly underweight. When the chest bones, ribs, collar bone, hip and wrist bones are that prominent that is a dead give away. Needs treatment that''s for sure.
 
Mara - same thing with old episodes of Friends. Lisa Kudrow looks similar now, but Courtney and Jennifer have halved themselves between the 1st season and the last.
 
I have to say that I am glad Lindsay has gone public with her problem and I hope she gets the help she needs. As for Nichole, I think she''s dangerously underweight but she has to admit that she has a problem before she can be treated for it. Just another one to chalk up to Hollywood''s obsession with thiness and beauty at any cost.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 3:25:39 PM
Author: Mara

the amazing thing is that i was watching charmed reruns over the holidays from about 3 years ago, alyssa milano who has always been ''thin'' was maybe 10 lbs heavier than she is now and she is wearing things that show her belly and tight pants etc and i am looking at the show catching myself going ''wow she looks kind of pudgy!'' even though in reality she is tiny...but compared to today''s girls she looks chubbier. ...well ffwd to this season''s shows and she is thinner and her hip bones show a bit and she still wears belly baring items but she is more concave in the belly etc, just like nicole and the other girls who have lost weight too. and now we (general tv watching public) think oh that is more how they are supposed to look, myself included even though i know better. it just sticks in your head.
Most of the time these girls look so much better with a little flesh to their faces, but I catch myself doing the same thing when I watch TV. Thinking someone looks hippy or in a tight shirt with low pants noticing a little bit more of a belly. Not with Charmed, but its definitely apparent with actresses on lots of other shows. And its so bad...I''m quick to criticize, but I''d hate if I was held up to those same standards! I''m heavy but I''m sure I''d look like a whale on TV! or next to one of those stars. My brothers ran into Jessica Simpson this summer in NYC and got a picture and my brothers gf is super tiny, makes me feel like an ogre next to her! and he was like yeah, Jessica was even tinier than her....which to me is just mindboggling! I''m not sure how I''d react under all of that pressure, but if we''re doing that just watching TV, I can''t imagine what the pressures would be like from agents and producers, etc etc etc and just seeing skinny people all around.

Also, wasn''t really surprised with this Lohan news...I think anyone who had looked at her recently would''ve assumed that was the case with out it being official.

Maybe one day there''ll be a backlash of the normal sized girls!
 
~~I agree with Mara... at the same time, I think that it might have something to do with the fact that "the camera adds 10 pounds." I say this because these girls are being photographed ALL THE TIME!!! I wonder if they feel that in order to look good on camera, they have to be disgustingly thin. That way, when they are on camera, they still look really thin. To me, this is crazy!!! I mean, since when is it not okay to be a normal celeb with a normal weight??? I think that the problem is also that they have a distorted self-image, which makes them want to change their weight, thinking that they will feel better once they are thin. Then, they lose a couple of pounds, and they get all these great responses like, "Wow, you look great" or "You have a great body", or comments like that, so they keep losing weight, and they don''t realize in the end, how sick they look. Teri Hatcher is another celeb who I think could stand to gain a few pounds... when will this trend be over????
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Wow. Lindsay Lohan has an eating disorder??!!! I''m just......well I''m flabbergasted. Words fail me. I''m simply shocked.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 3:25:39 PM
Author: Mara
yeah you aren''t supposed to see the chest bones sticking out like that, and her elbows are like bony knobs...i think she could gain about 10lbs and still be very small.
My chest bones kind of stick out like that too but not as much as Nicole, and it''s not because I have an eating disorder. Sometimes when I look at myself in the mirror, it does gross me out because it just doesn''t look good. I don''t know how the celebs can think that look ok.

I am glad Lindsay admits her problem because I let her young fans know that it''s a problem and it''s not healthy. I think there is a lot of pressure to staying thin in Hollywood and the celebs are starting to go over board. I hope the trend goes back to a healthier body image.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 5:53:08 PM
Author: blueroses
Wow. Lindsay Lohan has an eating disorder??!!! I''m just......well I''m flabbergasted. Words fail me. I''m simply shocked.
Wow, this is all kind of nasty!
 
I''m very thin (5''7, 110lbs) but I box, I run, I lift weights, I eat substantial amounts of food and... I look a whole lot different to NR. The girl definitely has an eating disorder; no doubt about it.
 
I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a "normal" size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn''t mean that the NEW "normal" and "average" size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you''re one hot momma
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I feel really bad for Lindsay Lohan, an eating disorder is a hard thing to deal with and a harder thing to admit, esp when your whole life is under a microscope like hers. I hope that she stays healthy and is happier than she was.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 6:42:19 PM
Author: MC



Date: 1/4/2006 5:53:08 PM
Author: blueroses
Wow. Lindsay Lohan has an eating disorder??!!! I'm just......well I'm flabbergasted. Words fail me. I'm simply shocked.
Wow, this is all kind of nasty!
I see your point, MC but I wasn't really intending to be cruel.

She's a young girl under an intense amount of media scrutiny and pressure.....I was poking fun not at HER but at the fact that this was seen coming 1,000 miles away for months--she has looked ill for a long time and her camp has denied denied denied, when there has clearly been some sort of cocaine or eating disorder going on. Hence my faux shock. My vitriol is more reserved for the tabloid media who blows up these icons out of starlets with barely a resume and thrusts them into an impossible situation....and in turn, millions of young girls look to these air-brushed images of bone-skinniness as desirable, normal, and sexy! It's sick and wrong.



ETA: I don't think this is a case of women bashing other women......I think it's women bashing a dangerous societal trend.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 6:47:58 PM
Author: MC

I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a ''normal'' size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn''t mean that the NEW ''normal'' and ''average'' size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you''re one hot momma
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Chill out girlfriend...no on is bashing any other women. I don''t care if people are small or large. Whatever floats your boat. However, normal in this instance just means that you don''t have stabbing bones jutting out of your neck or chest or multiple ribs protruding through your skin. THAT is entirely not normal...no matter how you cut it. And I''m not talking about ''sometimes I can see my bone''...that happens to me too sometimes, but when you can see multiple lines in the trachea or bones stretched tight under skin, something is wrong. ''Thinner than she should be'' may have been 5 lbs ago but now she is advancing into Lara Flynn Boyle stage of emaciation. There''s nothing appealing or ''normal'' about that.

If anything, there is concern here rather than judgement or bashing...concern that these women feel this type of pressure to stay so incredibly thin and that other girls, young girls even feel that same pressure to not gain weight. My sister is 15 and has a beautiful typical teenager thin curvy body (that I''d die for, having turned 31 and seeing my metabolism slowly withering away!) but she is always lamenting about how large her hips are, she wears size 25 in jeans....I always get on her when she says that because that kind of ''I''m so fat'' thought process is not ''normal'' but yet that is what her friends do and are and is on TV and surrounds them.
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Date: 1/4/2006 8:07:02 PM
Author: Mara


Date: 1/4/2006 6:47:58 PM
Author: MC

I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a 'normal' size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn't mean that the NEW 'normal' and 'average' size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you're one hot momma
2.gif
Chill out girlfriend...no on is bashing any other women. I don't care if people are small or large. Whatever floats your boat. However, normal in this instance just means that you don't have stabbing bones jutting out of your neck or chest or multiple ribs protruding through your skin. THAT is entirely not normal...no matter how you cut it. And I'm not talking about 'sometimes I can see my bone'...that happens to me too sometimes, but when you can see multiple lines in the trachea or bones stretched tight under skin, something is wrong. 'Thinner than she should be' may have been 5 lbs ago but now she is advancing into Lara Flynn Boyle stage of emaciation. There's nothing appealing or 'normal' about that.

If anything, there is concern here rather than judgement or bashing...concern that these women feel this type of pressure to stay so incredibly thin and that other girls, young girls even feel that same pressure to not gain weight. My sister is 15 and has a beautiful typical teenager thin curvy body (that I'd die for, having turned 31 and seeing my metabolism slowly withering away!) but she is always lamenting about how large her hips are, she wears size 25 in jeans....I always get on her when she says that because that kind of 'I'm so fat' thought process is not 'normal' but yet that is what her friends do and are and is on TV and surrounds them.
38.gif
I think it's all about being healthy. These young girls and some women on Desperate Housewives are too thin. It's not healthy. Not being overly critical, just stating a concern for their overall health MC. Nothing wrong in that.
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Date: 1/4/2006 8:07:02 PM
Author: Mara
Date: 1/4/2006 6:47:58 PM

Author: MC


I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a ''normal'' size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn''t mean that the NEW ''normal'' and ''average'' size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you''re one hot momma
2.gif

Chill out girlfriend...no on is bashing any other women. I don''t care if people are small or large. Whatever floats your boat. However, normal in this instance just means that you don''t have stabbing bones jutting out of your neck or chest or multiple ribs protruding through your skin. THAT is entirely not normal...no matter how you cut it. And I''m not talking about ''sometimes I can see my bone''...that happens to me too sometimes, but when you can see multiple lines in the trachea or bones stretched tight under skin, something is wrong. ''Thinner than she should be'' may have been 5 lbs ago but now she is advancing into Lara Flynn Boyle stage of emaciation. There''s nothing appealing or ''normal'' about that.


If anything, there is concern here rather than judgement or bashing...concern that these women feel this type of pressure to stay so incredibly thin and that other girls, young girls even feel that same pressure to not gain weight. My sister is 15 and has a beautiful typical teenager thin curvy body (that I''d die for, having turned 31 and seeing my metabolism slowly withering away!) but she is always lamenting about how large her hips are, she wears size 25 in jeans....I always get on her when she says that because that kind of ''I''m so fat'' thought process is not ''normal'' but yet that is what her friends do and are and is on TV and surrounds them.
38.gif


~I totally agree, Mara!! Thanks for having my back!! I wasn''t trying to bash Nicole or Lindsay. I just started this thread because I am glad that Lindsay finally admitted that she had a problem... and it shows that Hollywood still has the problem with "thin being in". There is no "normal" weight that you can judge every woman by. I was simply stating that Nicole doesn''t look healthy (meaning her bones stick out, and to me, that is not normal).
 
Date: 1/4/2006 10:08:16 PM
Author: bling*diva*

Date: 1/4/2006 8:07:02 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 1/4/2006 6:47:58 PM

Author: MC


I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a ''normal'' size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn''t mean that the NEW ''normal'' and ''average'' size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you''re one hot momma
2.gif

Chill out girlfriend...no on is bashing any other women. I don''t care if people are small or large. Whatever floats your boat. However, normal in this instance just means that you don''t have stabbing bones jutting out of your neck or chest or multiple ribs protruding through your skin. THAT is entirely not normal...no matter how you cut it. And I''m not talking about ''sometimes I can see my bone''...that happens to me too sometimes, but when you can see multiple lines in the trachea or bones stretched tight under skin, something is wrong. ''Thinner than she should be'' may have been 5 lbs ago but now she is advancing into Lara Flynn Boyle stage of emaciation. There''s nothing appealing or ''normal'' about that.


If anything, there is concern here rather than judgement or bashing...concern that these women feel this type of pressure to stay so incredibly thin and that other girls, young girls even feel that same pressure to not gain weight. My sister is 15 and has a beautiful typical teenager thin curvy body (that I''d die for, having turned 31 and seeing my metabolism slowly withering away!) but she is always lamenting about how large her hips are, she wears size 25 in jeans....I always get on her when she says that because that kind of ''I''m so fat'' thought process is not ''normal'' but yet that is what her friends do and are and is on TV and surrounds them.
38.gif


~I totally agree, Mara!! Thanks for having my back!! I wasn''t trying to bash Nicole or Lindsay. I just started this thread because I am glad that Lindsay finally admitted that she had a problem... and it shows that Hollywood still has the problem with ''thin being in''. There is no ''normal'' weight that you can judge every woman by. I was simply stating that Nicole doesn''t look healthy (meaning her bones stick out, and to me, that is not normal).
I totally got that from your post bling*diva*. You are right, its so sad.

I give LL kudos for speaking out and admitting to it publicly because I think it does help and as the saying goes if she can just help one person by speaking out then it was worth it. I just hope that next person is Nicole Richie from seeing those pictures.
 
Okay, my deal (and grip) is this. I notice that among forums, it''s okay to thoroughly disect a THIN person''s weight issues, but it''s taboo to bring up an overweight star. Since these ladies are thin, yet have issues, we''re free to discuss. None would tread on one who''s eating has turned into rolls of fat! But, ribs sticking out are free game!
 
Date: 1/4/2006 10:40:03 PM
Author: MC
Okay, my deal (and grip) is this. I notice that among forums, it''s okay to thoroughly disect a THIN person''s weight issues, but it''s taboo to bring up an overweight star. Since these ladies are thin, yet have issues, we''re free to discuss. None would tread on one who''s eating has turned into rolls of fat! But, ribs sticking out are free game!

~~The reason why we are even talking about celebs being thin is because the subjects of this thread are Nicole Richie and Lindsay Lohan. Look at the title of this thread... it is about Lindsay Lohan admitting that she had a problem. If you want to start a thread about overweight people, and their issues, feel free. I started this thread because I see a trend in celebs (and some of those who look up to them) that thinner is better. I do not notice that much of a trend in overweight celebs. And no one is thoroughly dissecting their weight, I was just wondering what the reason could be that a lot of these young female celebs feel that thin is the best thing to be, instead of just being healthy.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 3:31:14 PM
Author: JCJD
Mara - same thing with old episodes of Friends. Lisa Kudrow looks similar now, but Courtney and Jennifer have halved themselves between the 1st season and the last.
In all honesty, the more weight that Courtney has lost, the older she has looked and she is not that old...
 
Date: 1/4/2006 3:31:42 PM
Author: pearcrazy
I have to say that I am glad Lindsay has gone public with her problem and I hope she gets the help she needs. As for Nichole, I think she''s dangerously underweight but she has to admit that she has a problem before she can be treated for it. Just another one to chalk up to Hollywood''s obsession with thiness and beauty at any cost.
The sad part is that Nichole''s family seem to be blind to what all of us are seeing, saying that she is ok when it is obvious she is not...
 
Deanna, that''s true re: the gauntness...it actually is not as becoming for a gal to be that thin, Teri Hatcher too, if they just gained a few lbs their faces would fill out a bit...fat can actually be quite useful in the facial area as you continue to age!!

Also, I have seen in a few mags that Lionel Richie has said that his daughter is like him...you either balloon out or fade away during times of stress and obviously that is what is happening to her...so it sounds like they are aware of what is going on, but what to do, who knows...

MC personally I don''t think that EITHER extreme of too thin OR too large is healthy for anyone...and it can affect your life in more ways than just looking thin...health problems on both ends of the spectrums etc etc. I think that people are aware of the negatives on being overweight, but on the other hand people are not always aware of what the negatives are if you are too thin. Instead people WANT to be thinner and are always striving to lose more weight, mostly women that is. Without knowing health consequences or anything like that. So personally I don''t think either subject is ''taboo''....I just don''t think either extreme is healthy or becoming. There is a happy medium.
 
Date: 1/4/2006 4:02:52 PM
Author: Blue824

Date: 1/4/2006 3:25:39 PM
Author: Mara

the amazing thing is that i was watching charmed reruns over the holidays from about 3 years ago, alyssa milano who has always been ''thin'' was maybe 10 lbs heavier than she is now and she is wearing things that show her belly and tight pants etc and i am looking at the show catching myself going ''wow she looks kind of pudgy!'' even though in reality she is tiny...but compared to today''s girls she looks chubbier. ...well ffwd to this season''s shows and she is thinner and her hip bones show a bit and she still wears belly baring items but she is more concave in the belly etc, just like nicole and the other girls who have lost weight too. and now we (general tv watching public) think oh that is more how they are supposed to look, myself included even though i know better. it just sticks in your head.
Most of the time these girls look so much better with a little flesh to their faces, but I catch myself doing the same thing when I watch TV. Thinking someone looks hippy or in a tight shirt with low pants noticing a little bit more of a belly. Not with Charmed, but its definitely apparent with actresses on lots of other shows. And its so bad...I''m quick to criticize, but I''d hate if I was held up to those same standards! I''m heavy but I''m sure I''d look like a whale on TV! or next to one of those stars. My brothers ran into Jessica Simpson this summer in NYC and got a picture and my brothers gf is super tiny, makes me feel like an ogre next to her! and he was like yeah, Jessica was even tinier than her....which to me is just mindboggling! I''m not sure how I''d react under all of that pressure, but if we''re doing that just watching TV, I can''t imagine what the pressures would be like from agents and producers, etc etc etc and just seeing skinny people all around.

Also, wasn''t really surprised with this Lohan news...I think anyone who had looked at her recently would''ve assumed that was the case with out it being official.

Maybe one day there''ll be a backlash of the normal sized girls!
Good points...I am not sure how it is to be them and have the stresses they do...but the difference is I have enough friends that would make sure and slap me silly if I even headed towards being too skinny. In highschool and college, bulimia and anorexia was not known by those names, but I was a victim of them both. I had to weigh on Friday what I weighed on Monday in my dance class. If the weight was different, I was told to lose the weight by Monday anyway I could or risk being benched from participation. This warped my young mind and I was a stick at 5''5" and 108-112 lbs, medium frame build. I had broken capillaries on my face and chest, bruising from the effects of throwing up and no energy. I had to seek help after my first child to get my mind off of the bend that I had been on. Luckily for me and my baby, I had stabilized somewhat when I married and got pregnant so she was born healthy.
Now, at 45, I hit the gym 3-4 times in a good week, twice in a bad one. I eat more sensibly, including a gallon of water on most days on top of other liquids and have a better sense of me and my body than ever before.
I feel really bad for these girls...and yes, as was already mentioned...it would be nice to think that Lindsay''s mom could influence her to take better care of herself, but Lindsay is quite independent and wouldn''t listen probably...sad, but true...
 
Date: 1/4/2006 8:31:32 PM
Author: kaleigh

Date: 1/4/2006 8:07:02 PM
Author: Mara



Date: 1/4/2006 6:47:58 PM
Author: MC

I cannot stand when women bash other women because of their weight regardless of whether they are too big or too small. This is a shameful thread. What is a ''normal'' size woman? Who sets the standards? Just because the amount of overweight individuals in this country is increasing, doesn''t mean that the NEW ''normal'' and ''average'' size woman is a healthy woman! Even if Nicole is thinner than she should be, who are you all to judge unless you''re one hot momma
2.gif
Chill out girlfriend...no on is bashing any other women. I don''t care if people are small or large. Whatever floats your boat. However, normal in this instance just means that you don''t have stabbing bones jutting out of your neck or chest or multiple ribs protruding through your skin. THAT is entirely not normal...no matter how you cut it. And I''m not talking about ''sometimes I can see my bone''...that happens to me too sometimes, but when you can see multiple lines in the trachea or bones stretched tight under skin, something is wrong. ''Thinner than she should be'' may have been 5 lbs ago but now she is advancing into Lara Flynn Boyle stage of emaciation. There''s nothing appealing or ''normal'' about that.

If anything, there is concern here rather than judgement or bashing...concern that these women feel this type of pressure to stay so incredibly thin and that other girls, young girls even feel that same pressure to not gain weight. My sister is 15 and has a beautiful typical teenager thin curvy body (that I''d die for, having turned 31 and seeing my metabolism slowly withering away!) but she is always lamenting about how large her hips are, she wears size 25 in jeans....I always get on her when she says that because that kind of ''I''m so fat'' thought process is not ''normal'' but yet that is what her friends do and are and is on TV and surrounds them.
38.gif
I think it''s all about being healthy. These young girls and some women on Desperate Housewives are too thin. It''s not healthy. Not being overly critical, just stating a concern for their overall health MC. Nothing wrong in that.
2.gif
I agree with you..being healthy isn''t about what size you are in jeans or in clothes...these girls are clearly NOT healthy...
 
Date: 1/4/2006 10:48:47 PM
Author: bling*diva*

~~The reason why we are even talking about celebs being thin is because the subjects of this thread are Nicole Richie and Lindsay Lohan. Look at the title of this thread... it is about Lindsay Lohan admitting that she had a problem. If you want to start a thread about overweight people, and their issues, feel free. I started this thread because I see a trend in celebs (and some of those who look up to them) that thinner is better. I do not notice that much of a trend in overweight celebs. And no one is thoroughly dissecting their weight, I was just wondering what the reason could be that a lot of these young female celebs feel that thin is the best thing to be, instead of just being healthy.
I realize the subject of this thread. Since LL is thin, it's okay to have brought this subject up. Has she been fat (and bulimic), this never would have been brought up. No thread would have been started.

I'm not trying to argue or anything. . .this is just my observation which I thought I'd mention. Nobody agrees w/me. Oh well, life is over. lol
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