Living together before marriage

[wakingdreams53]

SO has lived with GFs in the past, so I imagine for us that's just the next natural step. Definitely not a LIW in this relationship, but it is a huge commitment. I just moved into my own place a few months ago and it's incredible how much stuff I have. My apt is 3x the size of his & I can't imagine there being enough space for his things here, let alone my things over there.

I think that cohabitation is the only way to really know the person you're with, so I can't imagine not living with a future husband prior to marriage.

 

[MBKRH]

SO has lived with GFs in the past, so I imagine for us that's just the next natural step.

I think that cohabitation is the only way to really know the person you're with, so I can't imagine not living with a future husband prior to marriage.

M lived with his last ex, but I never did. So it was a new experience for me,obviously not for him.

I agree with you about cohabitation. I do think it depends on the couple, their ages, the situation, etc.....
Like another poster said, emotional maturity is key. If you aren't strong enough to walk away from a bad situation, then definitely do NOT move in together.

As far as finances, M recently talked about combining ours, and I've steered away from that topic. I don't want to combine until we're married. IMO, that's how it should be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wasn't nervous that we were moving in together at first. Sure, we had only been "officially" dating for four months, however; as of today, I've know him for over two years, officially together for almost 18 months. Working with him, I saw his good side, his bad side. I noticed his work ethics, how he got along with people, the whole bit. So essentially, I knew what I was getting into. I wasn't at all doubting that I was making the wrong decision.

Now, looking back at my ex's (stupids #1, #2, and #3), I would have probably only moved in with #1, and that's only because he was two years older, and "seemed" to be wiser. Then again, I was 16 and he was 18. But if we were older, say, mid-twenties.... he'd still be the front runner compared to the other two.
I DID move in with #2 for two years, but we lived in his parents' basement. And lemme tell you, it was hell. Young and dumb, that's what I was. I moved out at 18, and back home at 21. Talk about embarrassment. I was more terrified making the call to my father, asking if I could come home, than telling my bf that I'd had enough, and it was over.


Oh well. Every couple is different, and everyone has a story to tell about themselves or someone close to them where it did/didn't work. I think all you can do is really listen to your heart; look at where you're at in life, be honest and communicate openly with you SO before committing to cohabitation. You WILL know deep down if it isn't the right thing. Maybe not at first, but hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[audball]

I feel you MBKRH - I have lived with 2 other men in the past that were long term relationships. Had I been more emotionally mature at the time, I probably wouldn't have lived with either. It was all for convenience, not for the right reasons. Even though they both ended terribly, I still knew I'd do it again. But I also knew I wouldn't do it unless I intended to marry that person which meant it needed to reach a level of seriousness that my previous live in relationships hadn't.

I discussed it openly and honestly with Andrew and made sure he understood what living together meant to me. He told me when he was ready and we had more thorough discussions. It's all going so wonderfully for us.

 

[MBKRH]

I feel you MBKRH - I have lived with 2 other men in the past that were long term relationships. Had I been more emotionally mature at the time, I probably wouldn't have lived with either. It was all for convenience, not for the right reasons. Even though they both ended terribly, I still knew I'd do it again. But I also knew I wouldn't do it unless I intended to marry that person which meant it needed to reach a level of seriousness that my previous live in relationships hadn't.

I discussed it openly and honestly with Andrew and made sure he understood what living together meant to me. He told me when he was ready and we had more thorough discussions. It's all going so wonderfully for us.

I'm so glad you and Andrew are on the same page.

And the part I bolded, I felt the same way. It seemed a little soon to move in with M, but it felt right. I could SEE us having a future together, and I still do.

 

[audball]

I'm so glad you and Andrew are on the same page.

And the part I bolded, I felt the same way. It seemed a little soon to move in with M, but it felt right. I could SEE us having a future together, and I still do.

Me too! I was ready way sooner than he was, but I just put it all out there and told him to let me know when he was ready. He did. The rest is history. So I totally agree, when it's right, it's right. I kept waiting for something to go wrong, but we're truly happy and it just gets better every day. We both say all the time that we are happier together than we've ever been apart.

 

[MayFlowers]

I just moved in with BF about a month ago. Like many of you, we had "sleepovers" every night of the week. I spent my entire evening there every night and spent the night every night. Though it wasn't really living together, I haven't really discovered much about BF that I didn't already know before. He is a bit more OCD about where things go and keeping the place clean than I had expected. But, I think that's mostly because this is really our house and we have a lot of money invested in it. So, we both want to make sure we take care of it.

I hadn't planned on living with BF before we were engaged. But, circumstances changed and it just worked better for us to do this now. We also didn't see moving in together as a test. We both know we want to be together and so, buying a house together just seemed right. I would have preferred to be engaged first, but I know that that isn't too far off. While I don't have a hard timeline, BF knows that I expect it within the first year of living together.

 

[audball]

I just moved in with BF about a month ago. Like many of you, we had "sleepovers" every night of the week. I spent my entire evening there every night and spent the night every night. Though it wasn't really living together, I haven't really discovered much about BF that I didn't already know before. He is a bit more OCD about where things go and keeping the place clean than I had expected. But, I think that's mostly because this is really our house and we have a lot of money invested in it. So, we both want to make sure we take care of it.

I hadn't planned on living with BF before we were engaged. But, circumstances changed and it just worked better for us to do this now. We also didn't see moving in together as a test. We both know we want to be together and so, buying a house together just seemed right. I would have preferred to be engaged first, but I know that that isn't too far off. While I don't have a hard timeline, BF knows that I expect it within the first year of living together.

Me thinks you'll be engaged SOON though!!

 

[audball]

As far as finances, everyone is different but we chose to 100% combine when we moved in together. We chose this route for a lot of reasons, but mostly it makes us both feel more comfortable. I have never combined finances with someone before so this was a very big deal. We had many discussions at length about how we would handle bills, etc and this route made the most sense for us.

Right now, I make significantly more money than he does (he's finishing his last semester of school now and only works part time). When he graduates and finds a job (could take 6 months- a year..hopefully not longer!), he has a lot higher earning potential that I do. He'll likely start at probably 10k/year higher than I make now having been working for 5+ years. But ultimately, we like having shared money.

When we were dating, I always felt awful that he had so much less than me and felt compelled to pay. It made him feel bad that he couldn't, I felt bad that he felt he needed to pay, and a lot of times we'd skip out on things so nobody got their feelings hurt. Having all the money together means we're doing things *together*. If we decide to go out for dinner, we pay for it. If we do anything, we pay for it. It's all joint, it's all ours.

In my last relationship, money was a huge issue. Even after 6 years together, everything was "mine" and "yours" and I hated it.

This system has worked great for us. I get paid biweekly. Andrew gets paid weekly and gets tips as well. Every two weeks we sit down together and pay the bills. We add up everything we've jointly earned, pay all the must pay bills (rent, electric, cell phones, cable, my student loans, etc) and then pay for our "other monthly spending". We both charge monthly spending items on a credit card so that we don't have to worry about/track every charge in the checking account. We pay those spending cards off in full each month as a must pay bill. The items charged here include things like groceries, gas, eating out, etc.

After all that is done, we look at the debt we have and pay as much as possible towards paying it down. We both had some credit card debt when we started (me slightly more than him). We have paid them down equally with the extra and both have exactly the same balance left. We anticipate that they will be fully paid off by March.

After the credit cards are paid off, the money we have been spending towards them will go towards a small balance private student loan he had to take to finish his last year. That should be taken care of by June which will be just in time for us to have all the debt paid off (save our separate student loans) before his go into repayment in June/July.

Our focus then will be on paying down as much of our student loans as quickly as we can. We can easily live on solely my earnings and hope to use 100% of his (which should be higher) to mass pay off the student loans.

I know combining before marriage isn't for everyone but I'm as comfortable with it (with the right person!) as I was with living together before marriage. We both highly value trying to live debt free and are generally savers. I don't know that I would recommend combining finances to a couple who has different stances on money (one spender, one saver). Someone will always end up feeling resentful in that situation.

ETA: We thoroughly talked through the hurt feelings bit to get to the bottom of it back then. We had actually decided many months ago that we'd combine when we lived together based on that conversation. I was honest and told him that I have no problems paying for things because I already considered us a joint unit and considered everything I had to be "ours". Once he wrapped his head around that, he agreed. Ultimately I know that we will ebb and flow throughout our relationship over the course of our lives together. One of us may end up laid off at some point. I could end up being a stay at home Mom with everyone relying on him. Once we shifted our focus to "ours", we both felt way more secure in the situation.

 

[PhillyMcGee]

It's crazy the cultural differences that exist. I'm in Australia and if this was asked on a mostly Aussie forum you would get a 90% yes to living together response. Everyone does it here, usually only those with strong religious beliefs wil not live together. Out of everyone I know I can think of two people I have ever met who didn't live together first, both were very religious. All my girlfriends live with their partner! I moved in with mine 6 years ago, after we had been together 5 years and were 20 years old. It only took that long because we were young (together since 15) and it wasn't obviously time to move out yet. We moved out when I had finished Uni and had the financial capability to support myself. We bought/built our house aged 21-22 (time between buyin the land and the house being finished). Over here the progression most people go for is dating, move in together, buy a house, then get married.

 

[katrinab]

Philly, I'm from NZ and it is very similar here. It is surprising to hear of couples who do not choose to live together before marriage. All the people we know who choose to live separately before marriage do so because of religious reasons. My partner and I moved in together after 1.5 years of being together, stayed in our rental for almost one year then bought our house. I am from a extremely religious family and my parents did not take well to us living together before marriage. I had a year at university in a different city the year before we moved in together and it was horrible being apart! We were poor and young so it didn't seem right to get married but we wanted to be together regardless. Also my partner is adamant that it is important to learn as much as possible about the other person before marriage and living together is one easy way to check if a couple is compatible with each other.

We are having my ring delivered next week!!! I am so excited!!! Although it will be stashed away until he's ready to propose...

 

[boysenberry]

Before dating SO, I was always of the belief that I wouldn't live with someone until we were engaged (why buy the cow type reasoning) - just like before PS I thought I wouldn't want to pick my own ring! But then I felt so good about our relationship that it just seemed to make sense - added to the practicality of it: in nyc I wouldn't be able to afford to live on my own, so it was either have random roommates or live in a nicer place with someone who I wanted to spend a lot of time with. We probably moved in earlier than we had originally planned due to lease timing, but it has all worked out wonderfully minus the little quirks like why must he use so much paper towel to wipe up the tiniest spill?! I think before I was more focused on marriage and moving to the next step in a timely manner, so I thought that living together might derail that timeline if he got too comfortable. But I'm really glad that we have lived together for a little over a year now, as now I have absolutely no doubt that we can have a successful marriage, and there won't be any surprises in day to day life together.

 

[BereniceFrench]

BF and I have been living together for 3 years now. He is the first BF I live with and I am the first one of his GF that he lives with.
I wouldn't imagine getting engaged without living with my SO for a while before. I feel like it is the only way to really know somebody and to be sure we can live together. I feel that living with my BF made me love him more. It also made me a LIW! I don't think I would feel ready to get married if we didn't live together. The whole having a place together that we both decorate and furnish, where things are ours and not mine and his made me more mature and realize that I wanted to get married with him!
I guess it is a culture thing too. I am french and in France most couple live together before they get engaged. Living together is one of the steps in a relationship: dating, living together, getting married, buying a house/having kids.

 

[CaprineSun]

FYI: I choose not to live with him NOT for religious reasons. And, we've been together for over 6 yrs, so I doubt there are any 'surprises' left to scare me away. Plus, any 'surprises' are not enough grounds for us to divorce-- and if it is, then we wouldn't be ready to get married anyway if little nuances would end a marriage. I think we are more than enough mature for that. Marriage is for better or worse. Little annoying nuances would certainly not qualify as a 'worse.'

I'm pretty firm on my belief that it's better for ME not to live together before marriage. Not due societal or cultural faux pas, not due to religious reasons, but for other practical & wise reasons after careful observation, examination, and learning of the dynamics, advantages & disadvantages of this topic as it relates to me personally, and to our society. All of which I find much more valuable than any amount of money I would save by co-habitating. And much more valuable than discovering he leaves the toilet seat up or dirty laundry around.

 

[gem_anemone]

FYI: I choose not to live with him NOT for religious reasons. And, we've been together for over 6 yrs, so I doubt there are any 'surprises' left to scare me away. Plus, any 'surprises' are not enough grounds for us to divorce-- and if it is, then we wouldn't be ready to get married anyway if little nuances would end a marriage. I think we are more than enough mature for that. Marriage is for better or worse. Little annoying nuances would certainly not qualify as a 'worse.'

I'm pretty firm on my belief that it's better for ME not to live together before marriage. Not due societal or cultural faux pas, not due to religious reasons, but for other practical & wise reasons after careful observation, examination, and learning of the dynamics, advantages & disadvantages of this topic as it relates to me personally, and to our society. All of which I find much more valuable than any amount of money I would save by co-habitating. And much more valuable than discovering he leaves the toilet seat up or dirty laundry around.

I just like to mention that I don't think it's fair to trivialize the "surprises" that you may discover about your SO when moving in together because they may not be so innocent as toilet or laundry related. They can certainly be legitimate deal-breakers including things like mental health issues, excessive p0rn consumption, excessive drinking, financial issues, being abusive and other things that the girlfriend/wife may not be aware of before moving in especially if you are not communicating on finances or only spending weekends together. The only reason I bring this up is some things like this have happened to a friend of mine. I also had experience with an ex bf who exhibited a trait or two from that list, but lucky for me I discovered it before taking the relationship to the next level. In a perfect world these are things that you would assume you would find out about your SO before getting engaged or married, but unfortunately some men are able to hide things like this from girlfriends for a long time and only when they are living together do they find out. Of course things like toilet seats and dishes can be worked out, but there are worse offenses. Maybe they only happen in relationships that are rushed, or maybe the guy does a 180, but it does happen that worse things can be revealed after co-habitating.

Of course there are many ways to truly discover your SO. Being with your SO for six years is likely a great way to get to know someone over the years and I'm very happy for you to have been able to do that! Don't get me wrong, I admire your strength and beliefs on society and living together. However, not everyone has that kind of time especially those of us who did not meet our true loves until we were in our late twenties or early thirties and want babies! My belief is generally that I am an adult and I can do whatever I want with myself, but bringing children into a relationship is off the table unless a solid marriage is built first. It seems like we all have our idea of what is best for us!

 

[CaprineSun]

AFAIK, co-habitating has never proven to lower the risk/rate of divorce. In fact, other studies have proven the exact opposite.
Yet, I would never put down others' choices to live together before marriage. Many people do it.

My SO & I spend enough time at each other's place, we might as well live together-- if anything to save money (my rent is HIGH & he owns his place). I sleep there, have clothes there, we share dinner there, etc. Major red flags can become apparent without officially living together. Trust, I've been through major crap with prior boyfriends to know as well. Coincidentally, we were co-habitating at the time one decided to put his hands on me. Looking back, the red flags were all there. Being older & wiser, I know it shouldn't have taken me living with him and him abusing me to see how much of a monster he was. It should have taken me paying close attention, closely analyzing & knowing how to unlock my intuition to realize. That's the key to the major character flaws/issues. Also, time. Not cohabitation, IMO-- which tends to reveal the little annoyances. And, having never officially lived with my current SO, I 100% KNOW he would never, ever lay a finger on me.

There is a HUGE temptation for him & me to co-habitate. It would be so much easier. But, to me, the (often subtle) paradigm shift in dynamics of a relationship with sharing a lease, a mortgage, bills, losing a sense of physical independent & individual space without the fundamental step of marriage (which to me, is not just a piece of paper), is not worth the extra money. We will have many fruitful years of marriage ahead of us to more than cover those costs. To me, marriage is an essential foundation to co-habitating. And while single, I think it really is important to keep my own individual space-- even if I'm practically living with him. I will always have my place to go back to. I think it resonates a significant underlying statement.

And, I do take offense to others seemingly trying to trivialize said choice by implying a blind follow of religion or what one feels a culture forces upon another, when in fact, my decision is a well-thought out one for what is best for me & my goals for my relationship, no matter how inconvenient. Moreover, in the US the trend in recent years has been for most to co-habitate before marriage-- especially with the downturn of the economy. It is exemplified right here in this thread, as my viewpoint is in the minority. So, the cultural pressure issue is a moot point in today's world, anyway.

Time is not an issue. Whether I'm 27, 37, 47. I will never rush to co-habitate for those reasons.
Also, having children out of wedlock is also a big no-no. Once again, not for religious purposes or cultural pressure, but after careful examination, I realize it is a poor choice -- for me.

 

[gem_anemone]

AFAIK, co-habitating has never proven to lower the risk/rate of divorce. In fact, other studies have proven the exact opposite.
Yet, I would never put down others' choices to live together before marriage. Many people do it.

I would just like to mention those studies do not take into account that the couples who do not live together before marriage for religious reasons are also the same couples who do not divorce for religious reasons. They are in essence the same group of people and they end up skewing the results of those type of studies.

***********
I started to write about how DH and I didn't move in together to save money, but I had to delete it because now that you mention it...that is exactly what we were doing when he moved in with me after 3 months of dating. I had never really considered our living arrangement an "arrangement of convenience", but you know, looking back on it before we bought our house, for DH it kind of was...Not for me, but for him it was. His roommate at the time was moving back home and DH was left with no one. He is the one who would have had to shell out the big bucks to find his own apartment and instead I let him get off easy and live with me. My rent didn't really change much because it was already cheap. I lived in a small house with a roommate who owned the house. The roommates paid a fee per room and split the utility bills with the home owner. It was way cheaper than any apartment DH would have been able to find on his own and way more convenient than him moving his stuff somewhere else and sleeping over at my house all the time. I guess I'm a little bummed to think that our relationship started off as only "convenient", but c'est la vie. I like to think more of it as us not wanting to spend even a moment or a night apart and that we were saving money for our future together.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure he would have liked me as much if I had forced him to live elsewhere and waste money, especially considering that we had already had the talk about planning to get married. I guess once we decided that we were in it for the long haul that all the cards were on the table including our personal space and our finances. I didn't need or want the piece of paper to begin planning our life together. I knew we would marry eventually, but the thought of going through with marriage that soon in the relationship did scare me. I'm quite certain I wouldn't have done it.

Like we've both said though, CaprineSun, it's just different for everyone. It's better for you to not live with your SO and for me it would have been bad for my relationship had I not done so!

 

[star sparkle]

AFAIK, co-habitating has never proven to lower the risk/rate of divorce. In fact, other studies have proven the exact opposite.
Yet, I would never put down others' choices to live together before marriage. Many people do it.

My SO & I spend enough time at each other's place, we might as well live together-- if anything to save money (my rent is HIGH & he owns his place). I sleep there, have clothes there, we share dinner there, etc. Major red flags can become apparent without officially living together. Trust, I've been through major crap with prior boyfriends to know as well. Coincidentally, we were co-habitating at the time one decided to put his hands on me. Looking back, the red flags were all there. Being older & wiser, I know it shouldn't have taken me living with him and him abusing me to see how much of a monster he was. It should have taken me paying close attention, closely analyzing & knowing how to unlock my intuition to realize. That's the key to the major character flaws/issues. Also, time. Not cohabitation, IMO-- which tends to reveal the little annoyances. And, having never officially lived with my current SO, I 100% KNOW he would never, ever lay a finger on me.

There is a HUGE temptation for him & me to co-habitate. It would be so much easier. But, to me, the (often subtle) paradigm shift in dynamics of a relationship with sharing a lease, a mortgage, bills, losing a sense of physical independent & individual space without the fundamental step of marriage (which to me, is not just a piece of paper), is not worth the extra money. We will have many fruitful years of marriage ahead of us to more than cover those costs. To me, marriage is an essential foundation to co-habitating. And while single, I think it really is important to keep my own individual space-- even if I'm practically living with him. I will always have my place to go back to. I think it resonates a significant underlying statement.

And, I do take offense to others seemingly trying to trivialize said choice by implying a blind follow of religion or what one feels a culture forces upon another, when in fact, my decision is a well-thought out one for what is best for me & my goals for my relationship, no matter how inconvenient. Moreover, in the US the trend in recent years has been for most to co-habitate before marriage-- especially with the downturn of the economy. It is exemplified right here in this thread, as my viewpoint is in the minority. So, the cultural pressure issue is a moot point in today's world, anyway.

Time is not an issue. Whether I'm 27, 37, 47. I will never rush to co-habitate for those reasons.
Also, having children out of wedlock is also a big no-no. Once again, not for religious purposes or cultural pressure, but after careful examination, I realize it is a poor choice -- for me.

Big fat ditto, to all of this. You said it much better than I could have!

I find it interesting that so many seem to think the only way to really "know" someone is through cohabitation? I'm not knocking anyone's choice to live with their SO, believe me, but I just find that part intersting. I have never lived a SO and I don't plan on doing that until marriage. In fact, FI and I get the keys to our new place next week and he'll move in first, then I'll gradually start moving my stuff over but won't officially move in until our wedding in Feb (it just worked out this way, his lease ends a couple of months before mine anyway).

gem (and not picking on you, promise) mentioned that things like mental health issues, excessive ****/drinking, abuse, financial issues, etc. may not become evident until cohabitation. That may be true, however, I guess I have to question the judgement of the person who moves in with someone without knowing whether or not these factors are issues. I'm guessing it has something to do with differing viewpoints on the matter where I wouldn't move in with someone WITHOUT being sure that these aren't issues, so I can't understand how someone would only discover these problems upon cohabitation. Seems to me that you should know your SO better than just superficially (if the argument is that it's the "next step" before marriage, as seems to be the common sentiment in this thread) before deciding to move in together, but that's just me. If the objective is to simply save on rent, bills, or whatever, then that's something completely different.

Again, I'm not picking on anyone or knocking anyone's decision to cohabitate or not - this is just my opinion and observations. I trust that everyone makes the best decisions for themselves and their particular situation.

 

[gem_anemone]

Please... I am not trying to diss on anyone either! I also agree that it is not smart to marry/move in with someone until you are SURE they don't do those things. But I think you get away from the point that the man is HIDING his dark secrets and his true colors are not revealed until after moving in/marriage (either one). Personally if that was going to happen to me I'd rather be able to move out than have to go through a divorce.

And I don't believe that the only way or best way to get to know your SO is by cohabitation as I mentioned earlier:

Of course there are many ways to truly discover your SO.

I did however state that moving in speeds up the process of getting to know your SO.

 

[princesss]

AFAIK, co-habitating has never proven to lower the risk/rate of divorce. In fact, other studies have proven the exact opposite.
Yet, I would never put down others' choices to live together before marriage. Many people do it.

I would just like to mention those studies do not take into account that the couples who do not live together before marriage for religious reasons are also the same couples who do not divorce for religious reasons. They are in essence the same group of people and they end up skewing the results of those type of studies.

Also, can we *please* just note that correlation and causation are not the same things. What the study gem is talking about shows is that people that lived together as a next step (not to save money, not as a test) before marriage reported higher levels of satisfaction with their marriage after 10 or 15 years. They also had higher divorce rates than couples that did not live together, but as gem said, that doesn't include any notations on whether they did not live together for religious reasons. Honestly, I take satisfaction with the marriage and weight it much more heavily than the fact that you're still married. Still married and miserable (I'm talking consistently miserable, not going through a rough patch miserable) is not something I would do.


Personally, I agree with both sides of the discussion, and I think we all agree - it comes down to what is best for you and your relationship. I don't think anybody here is saying that either decision is best regardless of the circumstances.

 

[audball]

Also, can we *please* just note that correlation and causation are not the same things. What the study gem is talking about shows is that people that lived together as a next step (not to save money, not as a test) before marriage reported higher levels of satisfaction with their marriage after 10 or 15 years. They also had higher divorce rates than couples that did not live together, but as gem said, that doesn't include any notations on whether they did not live together for religious reasons. Honestly, I take satisfaction with the marriage and weight it much more heavily than the fact that you're still married. Still married and miserable (I'm talking consistently miserable, not going through a rough patch miserable) is not something I would do.


Personally, I agree with both sides of the discussion, and I think we all agree - it comes down to what is best for you and your relationship. I don't think anybody here is saying that either decision is best regardless of the circumstances.

Agreed. Well said. Live and let live. One person's decision isn't going to be right for everyone. The most important thing is that each person does what's right for them (and their relationship) and makes a smart, educated decision about what THEY want. And hopefully, getting married and staying HAPPILY married.

 

[gem_anemone]

Agreed. Well said. Live and let live. One person's decision isn't going to be right for everyone. The most important thing is that each person does what's right for them (and their relationship) and makes a smart, educated decision about what THEY want. And hopefully, getting married and staying HAPPILY married.

Agreed!

 

[AmeliaG]

From the sound of it, it seems some women are not confident of their ability to judge the character of the man they want to marry without living with him. I think it's sad and a little bit pointless. Abusive, condescending, irresponsible behavior has the same feel to it whether it is behind closed doors or in front of them.

A man that is irresponsible with money or who is controlling or abusive can't hide his stripes forever even if you don't move in with him.

 

[princesss]

From the sound of it, it seems some women are not confident of their ability to judge the character of the man they want to marry without living with him. I think it's sad and a little bit pointless. Abusive, condescending, irresponsible behavior has the same feel to it whether it is behind closed doors or in front of them.

A man that is irresponsible with money or who is controlling or abusive can't hide his stripes forever even if you don't move in with him.

Jebus, what is with the condescending comments towards one another? I think it's sad and a little bit pointless to make nasty comments about the choices other people make on either side of the discussion. Whatever their reasons, a) what does it have to do with you and your opinion and b) how does it affect you?

 

[audball]

From the sound of it, it seems some women are not confident of their ability to judge the character of the man they want to marry without living with him. I think it's sad and a little bit pointless. Abusive, condescending, irresponsible behavior has the same feel to it whether it is behind closed doors or in front of them.

A man that is irresponsible with money or who is controlling or abusive can't hide his stripes forever even if you don't move in with him.

Jebus, what is with the condescending comments towards one another? I think it's sad and a little bit pointless to make nasty comments about the choices other people make on either side of the discussion. Whatever their reasons, a) what does it have to do with you and your opinion and b) how does it affect you?

Seriously! What a completely unnecessary and rude comment Ameila. It's awful presumptuous to assume that women who were with terrible, abusive, deceptive, or otherwise bad guys are stupid, sad, or pathetic for not seeing it. It's just one of the arguments that people have for wanting to live with someone before marriage.

I've shared my story here and I've also been very supportive of EVERYONE'S difference in opinion on the subject. Live and let live. Don't be so patronizing to women who feel differently than you on the subject.

And on the contrary, I'm far from sad and insecure in my relationship and I still personally believe that living together is one of the best ways to get to know someone better (read: NOT the only way, but it works FOR ME and for LOTS OF OTHER WOMEN).

Don't be so judgmental.

 

[AmeliaG]

I wonder whether its more presumptious to suspect the man you want to marry to be a wife beater or have a million dollar debts strung out unless you can live with him first to test out his character.

 

[tammy77]

From the sound of it, it seems some women are not confident of their ability to judge the character of the man they want to marry without living with him. I think it's sad and a little bit pointless. Abusive, condescending, irresponsible behavior has the same feel to it whether it is behind closed doors or in front of them.

A man that is irresponsible with money or who is controlling or abusive can't hide his stripes forever even if you don't move in with him.

I had a snarky right back comment, but it's pointless to participate in nastiness. It's unfortunate that someone would want to derail a perfectly civil conversation about a topic that deserves respect for BOTH sides. I hope that it can be ignored and the civil conversation can continue.

 

[tammy77]

I wonder whether its more presumptious to suspect the man you want to marry to be a wife beater or have a million dollar debts strung out unless you can live with him first to test out his character.

Seriously, stop spitting venom. If you don't want to talk about this topic in a nice, respectful way towards people then just stop posting.

 

[audball]

I wonder whether its more presumptious to suspect the man you want to marry to be a wife beater or have a million dollar debts strung out unless you can live with him first to test out his character.

Whoa. Ok...are you just trying to be hateful?

We tend to be very nice in this forum and collectively support one another on our personal decisions whether or not we agree with them. We try to be HELPFUL. We LOVE when people who have been there done that come and offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice, but you aren't being constructive OR helpful.

How about this...you aren't a LIW. You clearly don't seem to have anything nice or helpful to say to us, so why don't you just stay out of our forum?

ETA: Thank you tammy. I always appreciate your RESPECTFUL and HELPFUL posts and advice. I think I can speak for the other LIWs when I say we appreciate your input when you have time to give it!

 

[princesss]

I wonder whether its more presumptious to suspect the man you want to marry to be a wife beater or have a million dollar debts strung out unless you can live with him first to test out his character.

I feel like the point of that perspective (it's not mine, but this is what I can gather) isn't that the assumption is that the man has these terrible qualities and that the only way to see them is to move in together, it's that it's significantly harder to hide them that way. Especially in situations where women don't want to wait years to see if these traits come to light, it's like a pressure cooker - you find out quickly one way or the other. That's personally not why I would move in with somebody (I'm much more in the "Go with my gut" camp on this issue), but it is definitely how it worked when I lived with my ex. He wasn't a cheater or abusive or in massive debt, but it showed qualities he could have easily kept hidden from me that would have made me miserable if we had gotten married. We were together for 5 years when we moved in together and I hadn't realized he had these character traits, but within a few months of cohabiting, I realized I couldn't marry him.

 

[tammy77]

ETA: Thank you tammy. I always appreciate your RESPECTFUL and HELPFUL posts and advice. I think I can speak for the other LIWs when I say we appreciate your input when you have time to give it!

Anytime, Aud! I have to say, this LIW group is one of the best that I've seen. I love how supportive you all are of each other, even when you have different opinions!