Living together before marriage

[musey]

Date: 3/7/2008 11:02:14 PM
Author: smiles
musey well said. just to add a few things:
...
if couples communicate well and are open about expectations etc.. cohabiting doesnt have to end badly... it often works just depends on the people and they way they see it!

I don't think anyone suggested that cohabiting usually ends badly. I certainly don't think that. I wrote my post primarily to point out that stats are worth very little with this stuff, because there are so many other outside influences beyond the specific cohabiting relationship.

It would be pretty hard for me to think that cohabiting usually ends badly, since I am an engaged cohabitor myself

2. another reason cohabiting in general can (does not always) lead to lower marriage satisfaction is because couples go from this superexciting pre-engagement, engagement stage to a super exciting wedding stage to a superfun honeymoon and couples return to their normal every day lives and are kinda like "well now what?" if you havent lived together you ease into normalcy a little more as living together will still be exciting and creating a home...

If you do buy into stats, though, I should point out that marriage satisfaction rates are SIGNIFICANTLY higher in cohabiting couples than ones that lived separately prior to marriage. The main negative of living together (statistically speaking) is that many of those couples don't make it to the altar at all. However, again, you have to take into account those other influences that I cited.


Anyway, I guess I should have been more clear. Here is what I took out of that course:

1. In general, a married couple's chance at a happy marriage is higher if they cohabited prior to marriage. This isn't because cohabiting causes you to have a happier marriage later, but because a couple who cohabits is more likely to know what they are getting into: i.e. they (in theory) would not marry unless they were happy while cohabiting. I hope that makes sense, because it's important.

2. Cohabitation in theory can decrease your chances of marrying your SO, but in most cases this is a couple who would not have married (or stayed married) anyway.

3. On the flip side, couples who do not cohabit prior to marriage have a higher rate of dissatisfaction with their relationship. It is not because not living together causes one to be unhappier in their marriage--it is because this type of person is more likely to stay in an unhappy marriage than the type of person that would cohabit.

Again, I hope that makes sense. Just tell me if I'm making no sense.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

FI and I technically live in the same place. I am at college and after he graduated he moved to my college town and found a job. So while I am at school we live in the same apartment. During the summer and breaks I go home to my parent's house. Technically we have different leases and whatnot, but whatever. I love seeing him every day and I couldn't imagine anything else. When we weren't living together I missed him terribly. I love little things like watching TV together, cleaning together, trying new recipes together, etc. I don't really feel like our place is "our place" since it's my only my local address, but it is still fun to decorate together and stuff. We also have a lot of practice budgeting via paying bills together and buying groceries together. I think it's been a good experience, but it confirmed what I already knew: our relationship works. Haha. We love each other and he's a really easy person to get along with, so it's very fun and I look forward to seeing him every day.

ETA: Being an only child, it's a big deal for me to find someone I am willing to share my space with.

 

[diamondfan]

I slept over but did not officially move in til I had the ring and the date and the planning was underway. Not for any big reason. Just wanted to handle it that way. I am not in judgement of anyone who just moves in without the ring, etc. I did live with a guy prior and thank gosh I did, learned a lot and it was all bad!!!!!

 

[Dandi]

My husband and I lived together for a bit over a year prior to getting married. We each had our own places with separate mortgages, adn we at each other's places every other night, so it was similar to living together! He proposed to me not long after our current home started being built, so we were engaged once we moved in together, but then we were so busy with the house that the wedding got put on the backburner! And I was so happy about living with M that I didn't care too much about a wedding at that point! Plus all of our paired friends were living with their boyfriends/girlfriends, so it felt right too. We probably left it longer than most of our friends (cohabitating 5.5 years in to our relationship) but only because we had our own goals to reach individually before reaching our goals set as a couple. I'm all for it.

Plus having done that, all our routines/division of duties etc etc had already been carried out, weird/annoying habits discovered and (where possible) eliminated

so alot of that had been figured out by the time we were married!

And in addition, I just love living with him.

 

[FrekeChild]

The whole only child thing goes for me too. I had lived with an ex-bf which was awkward because my parents were pretty much against it from the start. But it didn''t work out and I found that out for sure when he started talking engagement rings

.

musey-you''re making perfect sense.

 

[bee*]

D and I have travelled a lot and have lived together during these periods but we''re not moving in with each other until next month when our house is ready. As Kimberley said, you have to do what''s right for you, and no way is best. For me, I wasn''t comfortable living with someone permanently until we were engaged.

 

[Markie]

I am one of those people whose parents would be, if not devastated, at least pretty upset if my BF and I moved in together before getting married. That being said, we basically live together right now (we are both in college and he sleeps over my place every night) and I don''t see anything wrong with that. I think my mother has this thought that it would be respectful to her to at least ACT as if we live apart and that living together makes our personal lives something she knows about when she doesn''t want to. So probably we will at some point be paying rent on two places of residence and, even though that is financially not the best plan, I think it is the only way to keep everyone happy. My parents actually offered to let us move back home for awhile while we save money, but separate bedrooms at home until we are married, which would require one of us to share a room with one of my siblings, so that arrangement would drive us all up a wall, I think.

I honestly don''t think that living together changes my relationship with BF in an important way. I live with him because I like to see him every day and I like going to sleep next to him and waking up next to him, but I believe that I will be happily married to him whether or not we lived together first. I know I love him and I''ve spent a lot of time with him and although we do bicker about things like cleaning and dishes sometimes, I would have expected that to happen without living with him and I knew I would be willing to compromise and work things out in order to make our marriage run smoothly. (I don''t remember who said it above, but I totally love the fact that neither of us has to do the chores we really hate, we just switch, it''s wonderful)

 

[musey]

Date: 3/8/2008 12:37:06 PM
Author: FrekeChild

musey-you''re making perfect sense.

Thanks, FC

After reading smiles'' post I was worrying that people had taken the exact opposite meaning that I''d intended from my post!

 

[smiles]

i am sorry if i upset anyone... i did not mean to take what you said out of context... everything musey said made perfect sense i completely agree with the first post i think its totally logical i was just trying to point out other additional fctors that can contribute based on classes etc.. that i have taken. i 100% agree with musey''s first post though... i apologize if i confused/offended/took things out of context by accident...

 

[musey]

No need for an apology smiles, but I'm glad you clarified. It's very difficult to interpret the correct meaning from posts sometimes.

When I read your post I felt that you had taken the opposite meaning that was intended from mine--primarily your pointing out why premarital cohabitation can lead to lower marriage satisfaction (which, as I mentioned, has been shown to be untrue), or that cohabiting "doesn't have to end badly," which I didn't suggest was usually the case. So I just wanted to clarify my own interpretation of the issue.

After learning what I have, in general I am "for" cohabiting--provided that both parties feel comfortable with the arrangement. People like to cite the lower marriage rate or heightened divorce rate amongst those who do cohabit as an argument against it. However, I think that it's extremely important to understand the other factors that come into play, but that aren't considered, when developing those statistics. For both of those "issues," research has revealed that the type of background a person/relationship has will have a MUCH bigger impact on the future of the relationship than will whether or not they cohabit. All other things being equal, cohabiting itself has been shown not to influence the future of a relationship, except in that it would cause a couple to break up prior to marrying rather than to divorce OR be stuck in an unhappy marriage.

 

[LaraOnline]

I guess musey''s research just summarises what many of us currently assume.
The biggest issue in cohabitation does not seem to be addressed by the research at all, however:
differing expectations.
Many women, particularly younger women, might say they were moving in with their SO ''for convenience'' (option one). But their deep-seated expectations might more honestly be correlated with option three, ''stop-off before marriage''.
Sorting out your own expectations, and that of your SO, is not necessarily as easy as a conversation or two.

also, there seems - judging from the Australian media at least - to be absolutely no significant studies into the quality/success of cohabitation experiences. While marriage is constantly picked over by academics, (AKA headlines trumpeting declining marriage rates, divorce rates etc) cohabitation has surprisingly stayed out of the public eye. Just how long do most cohabitations last? How do most end: in marriage, death of a partner, or break up? My own guess is that most break up. There just is not enough stastistical information on cohabitation to really have the full picture or cohabitation vs marriage.

From the extremely limited studies available, it does seem clear that cohabiting does really cut down on the number of planned pregnancies. The impact on (planned) fertility seems to be the only aspect of cohabitation experience studied so far!

For these reasons, among others, I would be encouraging my young daughter to have an engagement, and a marriage date set (maybe two years down the track) before moving in. That way, it''s most likely that Option 3 is what is on the table, rather than Option 1. It cuts back the white noise, and if things do break down, she is in a more dignified position to move on from, in her future sexual relationships.

 

[LaraOnline]

That''s another research gap: the effect of history (eg a series of failed cohabitations) on current pairings.

For example:
Can previous cohabitation experience reduce commitment/ experience of personal intimacy in the current relationship? I''d say that could be likely.

Could previous cohabitation experience mean that social skills in the current relationship are enhanced? I''d say that could also be a possibility, although only if the previous relationships had not included a lot of hurtful behaviour, or ended in too traumatic a fashion.

Can a previous cohabitation, or series of previous cohabitations, result in increased or impaired discrimination in sexual partner in the future?

How does it affect an individual''s attitude towards marriage, or experience of marriage?

There are just so many important questions, and the research seems extremely thin, even as our community has quickly moved to put cohabitation on the same level as marriage.

Personally, I have found the two living styles vastly different. In my never-married state, I found cohabitation extremely stressful emotionally. Breaking up was also an extremely significant life event, financially and emotionally. I also found that cohabitation put a lot of pressure on me regarding fertility management.

 

[Anna0499]

I would personally never live with my SO because I am an old-fashioned girl who believes that your first place together should be lived in when you come back from your wedding. I never pictured getting married and nothing in my living situation changing, it would be too boring for me. Like some of you have mentioned, I also think that cohabitation is an easy way around ever getting married at all. While I understand some people feel more comfortable with a "test drive" in living with their SO, FI, etc., I believe that if I don''t know if I can live with my SO then I don''t know him well enough to marry him. A lot of the people who do cohabitate cite their reason for doing so as getting to know what living with their SO, FI, etc. is like...but how many divorces do you know of that occur because someone just "can''t live with" someone else? I would think that number is very low and it''s more likely to be about money, infidelity, children issues, etc. I think that if you really are meant to be together forever then any "minor" (IMO) problems you would have with living together would be secondary to the love you share and you would be able to get through anything. I don''t think anyone ever got a divorce over dirty dishes or fighting over the remote; some may think that''s the problem but deep down inside it''s most likely a deeper issue that should''ve been discussed before marriage. From a practical standpoint, I am not living with my parents or in financial strife so living with my SO would be more of a burden because I might be putting my credit at risk. If we ever broke up, it might be difficult to figure all that out. After all, a good portion of the cases you see in court nowadays deals with cohabitating couples who cannot find a way to split up the mortgage/rent/house items. Just sounds like a headache to me! None of this is meant to sound judgmental, so I apologize if it does. This is just the reason for my beliefs and I respect other people''s rights to make their own decisions in their lives.

 

[musey]

I really thought this was going to be a short post, whoops!

Anna, I can understand your points re: putting your credit at risk, splitting things up in the event of a breakup, etc.

I can only speak for myself, but living together for us was never a "if it goes well, we''ll get married" type of situation. We moved in together simply because we wanted to see each other all day every day. The timing was not right for us to get married at that time, but neither of us would have moved in if we didn''t take our level of commitment as seriously as we would marriage. We fully intended to get married as soon as the timing was right, and I was already confident in him and our relationship. Otherwise no, I wouldn''t have risked possible damage to my credit line or complications of a breakup.

So for me, I guess that''s the line between "trial marriage" and "stopoff on the way to marriage." If the timing is otherwise right for a couple to get married, but they want a "test run" first, that is one thing. Having extenuating circumstances preventing marriage until a later date, but choosing to live as husband and wife until you can marry (which both parties are fully invested in), is an entirely different thing.


So I guess that''s why I don''t think it''s fair to lump all cohabiting situations together. Wanting to not cohabit for fundamental moral or religious ideas is entirely one''s own prerogative, and cannot (and SHOULD not) be argued with, as it is a very personal decision. Choosing not to cohabit based upon statistics or loose ideas on the subject, however, is not making an informed decision, in my opinion. But then, every major decision I make is thoroughly researched and weighed against all other options, and my ideas on these sorts of things have MASSIVELY changed once I took the initiative to educate myself.

What changed my mind on the cohabitation subject was, other than the research that I did, coming to the realization that I didn''t want there to be a SINGLE outside motivator for my fiance to propose. I didn''t want marriage to come with "perks" that he wasn''t already getting, or big changes that he''d have to sign his life to me in order to get. I wanted him to have everything he could want out of our relationship so that if he did propose, I''d know it was for no other reason than that he loved me and wanted to be with me for the rest of our lives. This isn''t logical for all relationships or all men, but given the nature of our relationship, and my FI''s nature in general, I knew that I wasn''t setting myself up for disappointment going into it.

On the subject of "not changing the living situation at the time of marriage is too boring" ... I guess it really is just a matter of opinion, but I don''t think becoming a wife will be any less exciting just because I won''t also be moving at the same time. However, that really hinges on one''s perception of standardized life progression, because if what you''ve been expecting your entire life was to move into a new place with your new husband, then it definitely will be a let down if that''s not the way it all plays out. I don''t personally care how closely I follow society''s prescribed "path," as long as I am following what I believe the best path to future happiness is.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/8/2008 10:20:45 PM
Author: LaraOnline

That''s another research gap:

Lara, we discussed some of the things you''re bringing up in this thread:

Living Together Before Marriage
(take one)

If you read my first post in that thread, you''ll see some sources I cited on the subject. There has been a significant amount of research done into most of the issues you brought up, at least in the US and UK.

 

[Anna0499]

Musey, I definitely understand your situation as well and respect it. I have friends who are cohabitating and everything is great with them, although they aren''t necessarily thinking of marriage in the near future, it''s mostly for financial and/or convenience reasons. Your situation does not sound like the "test run" type so I think that''s encouraging because you aren''t already setting yourself up for the "make or break" ultimatum. That might place a lot of pressure on the couple to make it work or else. My post was mostly my personal viewpoint on why I wouldn''t cohabitate before marriage, as opposed to cohabitating altogether. I agree with you that they are not the same thing. Also, I don''t think that my SO would be proposing just to live with me as a "perk" but as part of the package of what a marriage brings. I kind of lump that in with combining (some) finances, changing last names, legal/religious commitment, etc. Because this was in the Ladies in Waiting forum I assumed that the original poster meant living together before marriage and not just in general or in expectation of maybe someday getting married. I think it is a very interesting topic and don''t really like when all the statistics and generalizations come into play about cohabitation statistics because it is such a personal decision and, of course since the data is most likely gathered from surveys, the potential for inaccuracy in the findings. I also agree that personal experiences and perspectives come into play when someone has certain expectations about marriage. I am 24 year old law student, never been married, and without any children so who knows how I would feel 20 years from now. I just always envisioned moving in after the honeymoon and being newlyweds and actually look forward to finding out new things that bug me or I love about my new hubby. I guess I am jumping the gun though - gotta get the ring first - haha j/k my SO is actually more gung ho about getting engaged soon than I am. I love everyone''s opinions on this topic and appreciate that we have this forum to speak civilly about it (there are too many horrible forums out there).

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 3/9/2008 6:13:59 AM
Author: musey
I really thought this was going to be a short post, whoops!


Anna, I can understand your points re: putting your credit at risk, splitting things up in the event of a breakup, etc.


I can only speak for myself, but living together for us was never a ''if it goes well, we''ll get married'' type of situation. We moved in together simply because we wanted to see each other all day every day. The timing was not right for us to get married at that time, but neither of us would have moved in if we didn''t take our level of commitment as seriously as we would marriage. We fully intended to get married as soon as the timing was right, and I was already confident in him and our relationship. Otherwise no, I wouldn''t have risked possible damage to my credit line or complications of a breakup.


So for me, I guess that''s the line between ''trial marriage'' and ''stopoff on the way to marriage.'' If the timing is otherwise right for a couple to get married, but they want a ''test run'' first, that is one thing. Having extenuating circumstances preventing marriage until a later date, but choosing to live as husband and wife until you can marry (which both parties are fully invested in), is an entirely different thing.



So I guess that''s why I don''t think it''s fair to lump all cohabiting situations together. Wanting to not cohabit for fundamental moral or religious ideas is entirely one''s own prerogative, and cannot (and SHOULD not) be argued with, as it is a very personal decision. Choosing not to cohabit based upon statistics or loose ideas on the subject, however, is not making an informed decision, in my opinion. But then, every major decision I make is thoroughly researched and weighed against all other options, and my ideas on these sorts of things have MASSIVELY changed once I took the initiative to educate myself.


What changed my mind on the cohabitation subject was, other than the research that I did, coming to the realization that I didn''t want there to be a SINGLE outside motivator for my fiance to propose. I didn''t want marriage to come with ''perks'' that he wasn''t already getting, or big changes that he''d have to sign his life to me in order to get. I wanted him to have everything he could want out of our relationship so that if he did propose, I''d know it was for no other reason than that he loved me and wanted to be with me for the rest of our lives. This isn''t logical for all relationships or all men, but given the nature of our relationship, and my FI''s nature in general, I knew that I wasn''t setting myself up for disappointment going into it.


On the subject of ''not changing the living situation at the time of marriage is too boring'' ... I guess it really is just a matter of opinion, but I don''t think becoming a wife will be any less exciting just because I won''t also be moving at the same time. However, that really hinges on one''s perception of standardized life progression, because if what you''ve been expecting your entire life was to move into a new place with your new husband, then it definitely will be a let down if that''s not the way it all plays out. I don''t personally care how closely I follow society''s prescribed ''path,'' as long as I am following what I believe the best path to future happiness is.

I agree, same here! Only difference is because we live in a college-student aimed apartment complex, we have separate leases. In other words, if he doesn''t pay his rent it only hurts him not me. The only problem could be that if something happened we''d have to find a new roommate and that might be a bit awkward.

 

[FrekeChild]

I just thought of a big plus, while talking to my friend, of living together before marriage. Not having to deal with the move right after/during wedding planning. Maybe it''s just me, but I would hate hate hate to have to deal with that while going through the stress of planning it as well. Double the stress-yuck. I''ve always been told that moving is one of the most stressful things a couple can do together, and I know it wasn''t fun for us to move from our respective places to our condo that we live in now. Not fun.

And even though you didn''t intend it Anna, I really think your first post came off as being a bit judgmental.

 

[diamondringlover]

My husband and I will celebrate our 25th anniversay next May, but we did live together for 15 months prior to getting married, I always think of living together as a trial run, once we got married we were already use to each other and the only thing that changed in our relationship was my last name

 

[princesss]

Wow, Musey, that post was really interesting. It definitely gave me something to think about.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/9/2008 7:38:38 PM
Author: princesss
Wow, Musey, that post was really interesting. It definitely gave me something to think about.

That''s always nice to hear! I really think that that''s what it''s all about for me. I''m not trying to say there''s a one-size-fits-all solution--FAR from it--but I do hope to make people "think."

It''s always good to analyze and question our reasons for doing things the way we do. You never know what realization(s) you might come to.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/9/2008 7:27:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild

I just thought of a big plus, while talking to my friend, of living together before marriage. Not having to deal with the move right after/during wedding planning.

Good point! That would be quite stressful for me, too.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/9/2008 7:27:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I just thought of a big plus, while talking to my friend, of living together before marriage. Not having to deal with the move right after/during wedding planning. Maybe it''s just me, but I would hate hate hate to have to deal with that while going through the stress of planning it as well. Double the stress-yuck. I''ve always been told that moving is one of the most stressful things a couple can do together, and I know it wasn''t fun for us to move from our respective places to our condo that we live in now. Not fun.

And even though you didn''t intend it Anna, I really think your first post came off as being a bit judgmental.

Please tell me how my post was judgmental but everyone else who posts that they would "never" get married without living with their SO first because of various reasons are not? I just gave my own reasons for my beliefs just like everyone who is pro-cohabitation gave theirs and I don''t really see a difference. I assume original poster wanted perspectives from both sides of the argument and, because most of the posts were pro-cohabitation, I decided to give my different viewpoint on the subject. Most of my friends who have waited until they are married to move in together have had the house bought/apartment lease signed/etc. so that they didn''t have to really deal with a lot of stress when they got back from the honeymoon. All they had to do was simply move their things in and arrange the furniture. Like I have said in my previous posts, this is my opinion and I did not say anything derogatory about those who do choose to live together so I apologize if my opinions offended you or anyone else here who are currently or soon will be cohabitating.

 

[Mannequin]

This thread has been really interesting to read so far. I especially appreciate musey for taking the time to share her knowledge from her course - I never had the opportunity to take a class like that, how fascinating the discussions would have been.

BF is 110% certain that there will be a proposal this year and would have me living with him already if he had his way, but I am the hesitant one. We''ve been dating almost 8 months. I am currently living in my own condo and BF lives approximately an hour away in his own house. He has never been married and in his past, he has lived with two other women. From what I gather, these other relationships were what could be considered the "live together out of convenience" kind. Neither of the other women were financially able to support themselves in their own houses or apartments and BF ended up paying much of the way.

In my last relationship, my ex-fi and I were together quite happily for close to five years and we moved in together after he proposed. It only took six months of living together and his emotional conflicts to break up the relationship. Needless to say I am not all that willing to jump freely into a live-in situation given my past history, especially since I just purchased my condo in late May of last year. My cat and I are quite comfortable here, and I live closer to the schools where I teach and take Masters classes than I would if I was with BF. I love my independence and am hesitant to give up my own space.

Would I move without the ring? Yes, but not until I''ve known him all four seasons. I''ve told him that for my own personal peace of mind, I don''t want to make any major moves or major life decisions until we''ve gone through approximately one year of dating. At the end of that time, we''ll be back in the summer again and I''ll have the time off of teaching to be able to focus on a move. I''ve already set some boxes aside, but he knows I am not in a hurry to start packing. If I move to his area, I may have to look for a teaching job closer to him due to my commute time nearly doubling, and I can''t fully commit to job hunting until I know I am most definitely on my way there.

I know of friends who have done similar or very different things when it comes to a couple living together before marriage. It really is a decision specific to each couple based on their common goals and wants/needs. In the three weddings taking place in the next few months among my circle of friends, one couple will not live together until they marry due to the bride''s religious values, and the other two include couples who have lived together for years (both pre-and post-engaged). If the arrangement works best with each party living solo, then by all means a couple should pursue that option. If not, then the couple should be actively taking steps to be emotionally close as well as physically living close.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 3/9/2008 8:43:25 PM
Author: Anna0499

Date: 3/9/2008 7:27:35 PM

Author: FrekeChild
I just thought of a big plus, while talking to my friend, of living together before marriage. Not having to deal with the move right after/during wedding planning. Maybe it''s just me, but I would hate hate hate to have to deal with that while going through the stress of planning it as well. Double the stress-yuck. I''ve always been told that moving is one of the most stressful things a couple can do together, and I know it wasn''t fun for us to move from our respective places to our condo that we live in now. Not fun.

And even though you didn''t intend it Anna, I really think your first post came off as being a bit judgmental.

Please tell me how my post was judgmental but everyone else who posts that they would ''never'' get married without living with their SO first because of various reasons are not? I just gave my own reasons for my beliefs just like everyone who is pro-cohabitation gave theirs and I don''t really see a difference. I assume original poster wanted perspectives from both sides of the argument and, because most of the posts were pro-cohabitation, I decided to give my different viewpoint on the subject. Most of my friends who have waited until they are married to move in together have had the house bought/apartment lease signed/etc. so that they didn''t have to really deal with a lot of stress when they got back from the honeymoon. All they had to do was simply move their things in and arrange the furniture. Like I have said in my previous posts, this is my opinion and I did not say anything derogatory about those who do choose to live together so I apologize if my opinions offended you or anyone else here who are currently or soon will be cohabitating.

Defensive much? I was just letting you know that I thought your first post came off as a bit judgmental, and you finished it by saying "None of this is meant to sound judgmental, so I apologize if it does. This is just the reason for my beliefs and I respect other people''s rights to make their own decisions in their lives." So I just thought I should let you know that my opinion is that you came off as being a little bit judgmental and did not take any offense to what you said. Sorry that you took offense to my offhand comment.

I have to say after moving several times myself that signing the papers is the least stressful part of moving. You start talking logistics, furniture placement, mishandling of personal items, not being able to find certain things, being able to find sheets and make a bed at the end of the day while being absolutely exhausted- that is where stress comes in. When BF moved into the condo with me, his favorite chair got scratched, and the marble on his coffee table split in two and he was in a funk about it the rest of the day, which made moving a lot harder and not fun at all. And *I* had moved in months prior.

BF and I had a discussion when we first started talking about marriage and I told him that I wanted a ring on my finger before I lived with him or anyone for that matter. When it came down to it though we ended moving in together because it was easier financially on him, and we were already essentially living together at his place while mine (now ours) was being renovated. I already knew what living with him would be like, not only that but what living with him and caring for him while he was incapacitated would be like. I didn''t need to physically live in the same place with him to know that I love him unconditionally and will marry him-but that time hasn''t come yet, because we are both students and aren''t set financially in any way.

To me, the biggest change when it comes down to getting married will be my name, the mixing of our finances, my family really embracing him as part of our family and knowing that where he goes-I go. I''ll have enough stress to deal with when we end up moving all of our stuff from our condo to whatever state we end up in once we''re both out of school.

I think that when it comes down to it, the divorce statistics have nothing to do with cohabiting or not, rather they have to do with the compatibility of the couple and the commitment they have for the relationship. I think the higher divorce rate (which is more like 40%-instead of the 50% that everyone seems to think- and going down because people are choosing to not get married instead of getting married and then divorced) comes from people just not willing to make their relationships work, and not sticking to their vows that they promised to each other on their wedding day.

Regardless ANY statistics in the vein should be taken with a grain of salt, because it''s a very hard thing to measure, and while the Census does it''s best, it''s just not a simple "yes" or "no" type of question and shouldn''t be treated as such. This has been gathered from the info BF and my dad have given me (sociological statistician and divorce attorney) and I''d say they''re pretty legitimate sources.

 

[Anna0499]

No, I don''t actually think I am defensive at all. I just asked that you please explain what about my post sounded judgmental because I would like to know for the future. I thought that I was just expressing my own personal opinions about the subject and the reasoning behind it like everyone else was. I explicitly included the "judgmental disclaimer" because I know a few of the other posts came off that way to me so I wanted to make sure no one was offended by mine. (Not that the other posts offended me, it just made me think that I was alone in my viewpoint, which is fine). I think the other posts were almost all one-sided and kind of made it sound foolish not to live with someone before you''re married. I actually have a friend in your situation, who moved in with her boyfriend because it was more logical in their minds to do so and it''s not like I tell her that it''s a bad thing. I just know that I would not like it and stated the reasons I had for that belief because the poster asked. Although your moving experience does sound quite stressful, I have moved in with multiple different people (4) and everything has worked out fine so maybe I just don''t have the fear in me yet! Anyway, this is all getting very off topic and I agree with you about the statistics being a bad indicator and the poster above that it''s a personal choice that everyone has to make for themselves. Also, like I said before, I might change my mind after I get a few years under my belt but as of now, that''s my story and I''m sticking to it. Haha

 

[musey]

Anna, re: views on cohabitation depending upon age--I''m 23. I think that Freke is also in her early 20''s? Please correct me if I''m wrong!

I''m not sure whether that means anything but I just wanted to throw that in in case it is significant from your standpoint.

 

[FrekeChild]

Musey, I'll be 26 in 43 days and I'm feeling older by the minute. What's totally weird to me is that people always think I'm about 20-22 and even had to pull out my ID a couple weeks ago to prove to one of BFs friends that I wasn't 18 like she was thinking. What is funny about that is that we've been together for almost two years-and she's known me the entire time-and I certainly didn't look 16 when we first met. But I don't think I can claim early twenties anymore. Dang it. Oh well.

"While I understand some people feel more comfortable with a "test drive" in living with their SO, FI, etc., I believe that if I don't know if I can live with my SO then I don't know him well enough to marry him. A lot of the people who do cohabitate cite their reason for doing so as getting to know what living with their SO, FI, etc. is like...but how many divorces do you know of that occur because someone just "can't live with" someone else? I would think that number is very low and it's more likely to be about money, infidelity, children issues, etc. I think that if you really are meant to be together forever then any "minor" (IMO) problems you would have with living together would be secondary to the love you share and you would be able to get through anything. I don't think anyone ever got a divorce over dirty dishes or fighting over the remote; some may think that's the problem but deep down inside it's most likely a deeper issue that should've been discussed before marriage."

A bit judgmental in the wording and making general assumptions. I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, just responding to your request. I know I've done the same thing.

Also another thing, in all of the divorce/custody/estate and other miscellaneous family court cases I've seen in my day-which is entirely too many, mind you- only gay/lesbian cases are anything like the cohabiting cases you mentioned.

Certain things can't be discussed before living with each other, plain and simple. Not for the lack of trying, but more because those things just aren't thought about or even present until you get to living together. Talking about something is a lot easier than actually doing. I've learned this the hard way in previous relationships. But just the same as not being able to know everything about your SO because you haven't been there with *him* every step of the way- no matter how much you talk or have question and answer periods- there is no way you can cover ever single problem that has to do with living together before you get married. And sometimes things just crop up that you won't think about until you're knee-deep in it. Thats just how life is in general.

Unfortunately, people don't seem to talk as much or ask the important questions or don't anticipate it getting hard, and thats why there is divorce in general. Of course, falling out of love happens too.

Don't get me started! There are SO MANY reasons people get divorced, I don't want to try to think about them anymore.

I still learn new things everyday about BF, and we'll have been living together-ish since June 2006- and I'm thinking that the learning will never end. I hope it doesn't. But I'm really glad that I know as much as I do about him now and that I won't have to deal with just learning about his messiness or lack of motivation to do most chores, after the honeymoon. I'll have enough to worry about while thinking about places to put wedding presents, getting my name changed, buying new shoes(because I do that all the time anyway!), changing all legal documents and figuring out the rest of our life from that point on.

In lots of ways it's like we are already engaged or married. We've stated our intentions to each other and sleep in the same bed, but I think that when we finally do take the leap (probably about 2-3 years) I will have enough other things and enough changes that will make married life different from what we've got now-which is almost married life.

I just realized that I think if my dad was concerned about the stats of living with SOs before marriage and divorce he would probably be adamant that we didn't live together. Hmmm...Something to consider.

 

[KCCutie]

Funny, E and I were just talking about this the other day.

Early in our relationship we discussed that neither of us had any desire to live with an SO before at least being engaged, which is great b/c we''re at least on the same page. The main reason for this is we both have either seen or been in a relationship where the couple moved in together for the sake of convenience more than any other factor and then became very co-dependent and ended up staying in a bad relationship b/c they couldn''t even afford to leave. Neither of us wanted that and while I don''t think that would happen to us we''re just not going there. When we talk about living together we call it "Bizzaro World" b/c we know it won''t happen for us until we are engaged. Having said that we have gone through times when we really were living togeter, spending every day/night together at one place or the other and I''m confidant that we will be able to live together happily when the time comes. When we talk about "Bizzaro World" it is sometimes tempting to move in together b/c we like the idea of living together and it would certainly save us lots of money, but we don''t want money to be why decide to move to that step in our relationship. After the engagement if we decide to move in together to save money for the wedding...that''s something totally different.

That''s not to say it won''t work for others who decide to live together before getting engaged. For example, my SO''s sister bought a house with her FI (they met just after we did in June 06) in the summer of 07 and her (my SO''s) family threw a fit! It caused a lot of drama and then when he proposed in August everyone changed their minds and it was fine. The thing is the couple knew what they were doing and even E and I had our doubts but now that they are preparing to get married we know that they know their relationship best and they did what was right for them. Personally though I plan to do without the drama.

So while I could never recommend a couple live together merely for convenience with a clear conscience there are so many other reasons why people move in together and as long as the couple had discussed it and it is what they think is right for them then I wish them all the happiness in the world.

It''s that old adage "different strokes for different folks" I''m not one to judge others but I know what works for me and I know it''s not for everyone.

 

[ladypirate]

Kris and I moved in together in January of this year. It''s the first time either of us has lived with a SO and it''s been great, although we had discussed marriage and agreed on a general timeline to get engaged prior to the move, so I''m not feeling the "why buy the cow?" syndrome.

My parents are completely supportive of it--they lived together for around 5 years before getting married and have been married for over 30 years now, so they thought it was really important for us to live together prior to getting engaged.

I respect the views of those who don''t want to live together prior to marriage for various reasons, but for us, it was and is the right choice.