Living together before marriage

[surfgirl]

I was thinking this thread would be really interesting but I can''t take the pink font so I''m missing like 1/4 of the conversation, sadly.

While I don''t really have interest in debating the study findings that musey is referring to, I did want to weigh in as someone who leads qualitative social research from time to time. While the results of any study may be interesting, it is always important to note that pretty much anything one wants to prove, can be "proven" in a study - it''s all in the wording and what methodologies/approaches one uses, how in depth the participant replies/conversations go, etc. Just another something to consider when discussing social research.

Carry on...and please, can we not use bright colored fonts so it''s easier for us oldsters to read? Merci!

 

[musey]

Yeah, surfgirl, I obviously agree (and probably most of the other people posting here do, too).

 

[CNOS128]

Date: 3/11/2008 4:16:27 PM
Author: musey
Yeah, surfgirl, I obviously agree (and probably most of the other people posting here do, too).

I agree, too.

And the only reason I mentioned statistics back on page 1 in response to Sklingem was because I was being a jerk because I felt his post was incredibly judgmental and preachy on a very personal issue.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

im sorry, we''re all out of cocoa

 

[CNOS128]

Date: 3/11/2008 5:13:19 PM
Author: Smurfysmiles
im sorry, we''re all out of cocoa

Any cookies left?

 

[TheOptimist]

Wow...sorry ladies! This topic totally took a bad turn. I was just pondering "out loud" so to speak about this for my own reasons. As stated before, I older, I have been married. My ex and I lived together before we got married, but I turned a blind eye to alot to way too much. I think I was just putting this question out into the universe as more a "hey, would you? Wouldn''t you?" type of question to get a feel of who has or will or won''t. It was not to stir up any trouble. I am so sorry that it caused misunderstandings and people to get upset. I hope you all understand I didn''t have any ill intentions and I hope we can just move past this.

Oh, and now I am craving hot cocoa!

 

[Sha]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:18:15 PM
Author: TheOptimist
Wow...sorry ladies! This topic totally took a bad turn. I was just pondering 'out loud' so to speak about this for my own reasons. As stated before, I older, I have been married. My ex and I lived together before we got married, but I turned a blind eye to alot to way too much. I think I was just putting this question out into the universe as more a 'hey, would you? Wouldn't you?' type of question to get a feel of who has or will or won't. It was not to stir up any trouble. I am so sorry that it caused misunderstandings and people to get upset. I hope you all understand I didn't have any ill intentions and I hope we can just move past this.


Oh, and now I am craving hot cocoa!

Ha... the "Living Together" threads always go for pages and pages and stir up some strong emotions along the way. In fact, when I saw this topic posted, I thought, "Uh OH...Here we go again!"

But it's a pertinent topic, so it's good to read all the varied responses too.

...Did someone say something about cookies?

 

[ladypirate]

I have lemon pound cake, will that do?

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/11/2008 1:55:49 PM
Author: musey
Anna, I have a lot I could say about your sudden change of tone, but suffice to say that you certainly did make it clear that this was more than just a civil exchange of opinions for you. I''m disappointed that you chose to ignore any and all attempts I''d made at explaining your misinterpretations of my posts, but that is your prerogative.

Actually, I don''t take anything on a diamond forum internally so it doesn''t hurt my feelings lol. I''m on Spring Break and actually have enjoyed the back and forth during my relaxation time. I don''t think anyone does take these things that seriously...that''s why I didn''t know where the whole idea that I was in a "tiff" with anyone came from. I don''t really know what kind of "tone" you (and probably others) interpreted but it''s really very hard to tell a person''s true tone from printed words and, as you said earlier, "misunderstandings" are abound on an online forum. I did not ignore your explanations, I just reinterated that I never said that cohabitation increased the chances of an unhappy marriage and that I also never cited any statistics. I also never commented directly on your posts until you specifically mentioned my name.

To whomever said the pink font was too distracting, is THIS blue font better? I admit I do not read every single thread in the plethora of PS forums because I don''t have the time but I guess I missed the Great Font Debate...this blue isn''t as bright...does it fall under the "okay" or "not okay" category? I assumed it was okay because it was darker but it''s still not black and I thought that the pink was easy to read so obviously I don''t know my audience.

But anyways, like I said before, whatever anyone wants to do is fine, I just wanted to give my "minority" viewpoint on the subject to the original poster. I think most PS posters are very intelligent and respect everyone''s opinions, otherwise I wouldn''t even come here.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:18:15 PM
Author: TheOptimist
Wow...sorry ladies! This topic totally took a bad turn. I was just pondering ''out loud'' so to speak about this for my own reasons. As stated before, I older, I have been married. My ex and I lived together before we got married, but I turned a blind eye to alot to way too much. I think I was just putting this question out into the universe as more a ''hey, would you? Wouldn''t you?'' type of question to get a feel of who has or will or won''t. It was not to stir up any trouble. I am so sorry that it caused misunderstandings and people to get upset. I hope you all understand I didn''t have any ill intentions and I hope we can just move past this.

Oh, and now I am craving hot cocoa!

Aww, no worries! I don''t think anyone is really upset at all. Maybe some interpret strong opinions and a back and forth as being upset but I just see it is a discussion. We didn''t have curse words or name-calling so I don''t think anyone lost any sleep or had any grief over your post!

After all, this is a diamond forum to pass the time and get information about hunks of carbon haha! I just noticed a lot of the posts in reply to your question were for one side so I put my .02 cents in and the reasons why (which is what I assume you wanted). Hopefully you got something out of all of this and best of luck in the future!

 

[musey]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:18:15 PM
Author: TheOptimist
Wow...sorry ladies! This topic totally took a bad turn.

They always do

Anna, just to clarify, this section is not a diamond forum. It is a relationship forum. Bride World Wide is a wedding forum, Around the World is a news forum, so on and so forth. You keep referencing "diamond forum" as though that's all the whole site is about, but there is quite a bit more that gets discussed here that is completely unrelated to diamonds.

ETA: The reason I think that that's an important distinction, is that some people have built friendships with other members, and those relationships are more important than just "a diamond forum," which is why more is discussed than just diamonds. This has become a community. I think that that's also why the site has become so segmented in recent years--because people have built enough of an interest in each other that their communication cannot be limited to just diamonds, and that's also why what gets discussed here is more important than just diamonds.

 

[Anna0499]

Oh my mistake, I thought that most people came to Pricescope to talk mainly about diamonds because that was the only reason I found the site and all of the various ads, sponsors, etc. having to do with diamonds and not news or relationships or even weddings. Also, many of the posts in this particular forum are about diamonds, picking rings, etc. so I didn't know it was a "relationship" forum because the posts unrelated to relationships are not taken out and posted somewhere else. I was actually referring to Pricescope in general, not specifically the Ladies in Waiting section, but sorry for making the wrong assumption.

Either way, whichever it is, my point was that I don't think most people here take anything on an open and public online forum seriously enough to hurt their feelings, especially when the subjects are personal things such as weddings, diamonds, and fiancees, that everyone will have differing opinions on.

Still waiting on a reply about the font color situation since I didn't see the Font Color thread - are there a clear cut guidelines?

 

[surfgirl]

Hi Anna, no there are no clear guidelines on using colored fonts. It''s just really difficult for many people to read because it sort of hurts the eyes...The blue is better than the pink but it''s still hard to read - at least for me it is. The font sort of vibrates, if you will, on the page, so I usually skip colored fonts. Which is a drag to some extent because I assume if someone posts, they want people to read their posts...Anyway, I know I''m not the only one who has this issue so I thought I''d provide a quick answer to your question...Cheers!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Eeep, please no more living together threads!

 

[musey]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:22:41 PM
Author: Anna0499
Still waiting on a reply about the font color situation since I didn''t see the Font Color thread - are there a clear cut guidelines?

The "search" tool at the top of the page is quite useful.

There are no rules or guidelines. Some posters have simply expressed a wish that others not use bright font colors because it hurts their eyes.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:22:41 PM
Author: Anna0499
Oh my mistake, I thought that most people came to Pricescope to talk mainly about diamonds because that was the only reason I found the site and all of the various ads, sponsors, etc. having to do with diamonds and not news or relationships or even weddings.

People come here for various reasons. I, for one, came here because of the LIW forum (before I was engaged). I was suffering from the "pre-proposal syndrome" facetiously referenced on the landing page, and I found a community of warm women who cared enough to advise me during that time (and not just ask me what kind of diamond I'd be looking for once the proposal was on the horizon).

The site began, and is still primarily centered around, consumer education on the topic of diamonds, gemstones and general jewelry. It has since grown to be segmented to serve as a arena for the discussion of many other topics.

Just because the site began as a diamond forum doesn't mean that that is the only purpose it serves, or that non-diamond-related topics are not as meaningful to posters on here as diamond-related ones. That may be true for you, but the people who come here to ask for advice on handling their (future) in-laws, or the death of a loved one, how to deal with bad communication from their bridal shop, or disagreements with their boyfriend, or how to pick their newest handbag... would certainly disagree with you.

 

[Anna0499]

Okay thanks! I tried searching for "Font" in the forums but never found an applicable thread about the PS etiquette on fonts so I decided to ask. I didn''t want to hijack the thread but I decided I would go ahead and ask those who had commented on it in this thread instead of starting a whole new one since Musey said there had already been a big debate about it. I don''t post that often (and am amazed at how the "Ideal Rocks" have the time!) but when I do use different fonts it''s just to help me find my posts easier and distinguish my post from replies to it. I hope I didn''t strain your eyes too much, I''m sure my time will come!

I will remember to use my colored fonts (which I think are more fun anyway) to the short comments and praises on people''s new jewelry!

Thanks again!

 

[musey]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:38:15 PM
Author: Anna0499

I don''t post that often (and am amazed at how the ''Ideal Rocks'' have the time!)

Two words for you: writer''s strike.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:38:01 PM
Author: musey

Date: 3/11/2008 7:22:41 PM
Author: Anna0499
Oh my mistake, I thought that most people came to Pricescope to talk mainly about diamonds because that was the only reason I found the site and all of the various ads, sponsors, etc. having to do with diamonds and not news or relationships or even weddings.

People come here for various reasons. I, for one, came here because of the LIW forum before I was engaged. I was suffering from the ''pre-proposal syndrome'' referenced on the landing page, and I found a community of warm women who cared enough to advise me during that time (and not just ask me what kind of diamond I''d be looking for once the proposal was on the horizon).

The site began, and is still primarily centered around, consumer education on the topic of diamonds, gemstones and general jewelry. It has since grown to be segmented to serve as a arena for the discussion of many other topics.

Just because the site began as a diamond forum doesn''t mean that that is the only purpose it serves, or that non-diamond-related topics are not as meaningful to posters on here as diamond-related ones. That may be true for you, but the people who come here to ask for advice on handling their (future) in-laws, or the death of a loved one, how to deal with bad communication from their bridal shop, or disagreements with their boyfriend, or how to pick their newest handbag... would certainly disagree with you.

Musey please stop taking everything I say so personally. I never said that the only purpose for these forums are for diamonds! I specifically even apologized for my wrong assumption and stated the reasons for it. I certainly didn''t think most people would be offended if I called Pricescope a diamond forum but if they are I''M SORRY! Obviously, I enjoy reading and commenting on people''s questions unrelated to diamonds or I would not have ventured into the LIW or other sections of Pricescope. Like I said before, my main point for even saying "diamond forum" was to point out that nothing anyone says here should make anyone lose sleep at night and everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Please let it die.

 

[musey]

I didn't take anything personally in those posts, but I noticed that you were dismissing these types of discussions as relatively unimportant (or not something that someone would be invested in) because this is "just a diamond forum." So I was explaining what I believe it to be.

We've had lots of threads on "what purpose PS serves to you," so I'm pulling from what people have written there.

Please don't tell me to "let it die" after poking and prodding me repeatedly post-apology

I have been involved in debate myself, so I am aware of that tactic. I didn't use it on you, and I'd appreciate you giving me the same courtesy

As evidenced by other threads on this topic, it is an important thing to be aware of when posting here.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:30:16 PM
Author: musey

Date: 3/11/2008 7:22:41 PM
Author: Anna0499
Still waiting on a reply about the font color situation since I didn''t see the Font Color thread - are there a clear cut guidelines?

The ''search'' tool at the top of the page is quite useful.

There are no rules or guidelines. Some posters have simply expressed a wish that others not use bright font colors because it hurts their eyes.

I actually did search for "font" and "font colors" in the search box but didn''t find any applicable threads. I would greatly appreciate any help.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:51:16 PM
Author: Anna0499

Date: 3/11/2008 7:30:16 PM
Author: musey

Date: 3/11/2008 7:22:41 PM
Author: Anna0499

Still waiting on a reply about the font color situation since I didn''t see the Font Color thread - are there a clear cut guidelines?

The ''search'' tool at the top of the page is quite useful.

There are no rules or guidelines. Some posters have simply expressed a wish that others not use bright font colors because it hurts their eyes.

I actually did search for ''font'' and ''font colors'' in the search box but didn''t find any applicable threads. I would greatly appreciate any help.

Here''s the most recent one I know of... though there have been many.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:47:17 PM
Author: musey
I didn''t take anything personally in those posts, but I noticed that you were dismissing these types of discussions as relatively unimportant (or not something that someone would be invested in) because this is ''just a diamond forum.'' So I was explaining what I believe it to be.

We''ve had lots of threads on ''what purpose PS serves to you,'' so I''m pulling from what people have written there.

Please don''t tell me to ''let it die'' after poking and prodding me repeatedly post-apology

I have been involved in debate myself, so I am aware of that tactic. As evidenced by other threads on this topic, it is an important thing to be aware of when posting here.

As I said earlier, I actually don''t mind the back and forth at all because I don''t find it affects my everyday life but I asked that you "let it die" because, instead of actually helping me or answering my question, you told me to use the "search" tool for the forum and continued to analyze every word in my posts. That could easily be the answer for a lot of the new threads people post (i.e. asking to show a certain size ring, invitation ideas, etc.) but I don''t recall you ever telling anyone else to do that when they ask questions that have already been answered. I just don''t think it''s that helpful, maybe I''m wrong. Also, I would continue this debate but other posters are asking that we stop so that''s why I asked you to let it die. My last few posts have been to move on but your continued criticism of every word I type seems very misplaced.

 

[lindsaylove]

I just want to say that threads like these are the exact reason I am very selective in joining in on certain topics.

I believe Anna referred to Pricescope in general as a diamond forum not to belittle anyone or any specific topic discussed here but in an attempt to bring this thread back down to earth.

IMO, going back and forth like this is pointless. Please, let''s all move on.

 

[blinkydoll]

Yawn

 

[mrm]

So....I never thought I would live with my SO before marriage or at least being engaged. That was before I got serious wth a professional athlete. I really struggled with the decision which is why I felt drawn to this topic. What it came down to was either never see him or move, not only in with him, but to a whole other cty. I took the risk. Although I worked out a compromise that he would move back to my city with me during the off season (we had resided in different cities during the "off season" as well). I was never against moving in with your SO, I just didn't think it would be the track I would take before the engagement. I tried to tell myself I wasn't moving in I was just taking a six month vacation because either way at the end of the six months we would both be moving

. But I was still really nervous about it. I think my biggest fear was that the engagement wouldn't follow. I talked to three of my guy friends who live with their girlfriends and all three admitted that if they didn't currently live with their girlfriends they would be more anxious to propose and do it sooner because they really loved living together. But with that not standing in the way, they didn't feel the urgency to propose.

But...it ended up being really great and an easy transition. Although, I do have to admit there were times during our cohabitation when I did internally struggle with it. I think it mainly had to do with the stigma I felt was behind the "living together before marriage" rather than the actual living together if that makes sense. But we found that we are meant to be together and got engaged. I think living together is an excellent tool to see how things will go after you get married and to truly get to know each other. It isn't for everyone (different beliefs, morals, etc...) and I can't honestly say I would want my (future) daughter to live with her SO before being engaged but I can see the benefits. At the same time, I also see the disadvantages.

A curious question, do any of the women on this site who live their SO and/or did in the past find that it did delay the engagement (those women that wanted to get engaged- I realize that not everyone on this site who moves in with their SO are necessarily ready for marriage)?

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 3/11/2008 10:29:02 PM
Author: mrm

A curious question, do any of the women on this site who live their SO and/or did in the past find that it did delay the engagement (those women that wanted to get engaged- I realize that not everyone on this site who moves in with their SO are necessarily ready for marriage)?

Nope! If anything I think it solidified our plans/moved them up. We had already set must be dating 2 year mark before we could get engaged, but we ended up getting in engaged Feb 14 and our dating anniversary was March 10. So not quite two years. I think living together contributed.

 

[poshpepper]

Date: 3/11/2008 10:42:10 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 3/11/2008 10:29:02 PM
Author: mrm

A curious question, do any of the women on this site who live their SO and/or did in the past find that it did delay the engagement (those women that wanted to get engaged- I realize that not everyone on this site who moves in with their SO are necessarily ready for marriage)?

Nope! If anything I think it solidified our plans/moved them up. We had already set must be dating 2 year mark before we could get engaged, but we ended up getting in engaged Feb 14 and our dating anniversary was March 10. So not quite two years. I think living together contributed.

Ditto here!

 

[LaraOnline]

OMG!! This thread is huge!

thanks for responding to me Musey. At the risk of wading in sooo late (I''ve got small children and have been away from the computer for a few days) I did follow up your link. I see you''ve listed some published journals, and mentioned the effects on cohabitation on general divorce rates.

It is indeed heartening to see that although cohabitation has soared as a social ''habit'', the divorce rate has stayed the same...although, as the Australian media likes to constantly point out, the number of people actually getting married seems to continuously diminish overall, not withstanding small spikes every now and then.

Of course, the divorce rates are weighted to some degree by repeat ''offenders''...as follow up marriages seem to be more likely to break up. But as cohabiting in all aspects is largely unmeasured (you don''t sign a contract, obviously!) the researchers really just have to guess, or take research projects as representative of the whole.

So if being a divorcee is a risk factor for divorce, I wonder where this places serial ''de facto''marrieds as far as future pairings?

As a ''modern'' global world, we do tend to trust science more than religion, don''t we. I know I certainly do, and have.
But (and I see you''ve touched on this in earlier posts) at the risk of sounding ignorant, I''m afraid that in my old age I have become increasingly sceptical of research parameters and quality, and also in the interpretation and presentation of data.

Accurate and thorough research is important when young people (particularly girls, who bear a higher-cost risk in sexual relating due to fertility management) are making decisions based on research.

Asking a few (or a few hundred) people to fill out a questionnaire about the quality of their relationship really doesn''t do it for me. And that''s really the only way we have to research this stuff!

Also, people''s attitudes to things change with age. Early in my marriage, I would have responded to a questionnaire by saying I was happy to have de facto experience (with other people) because it gave me sexual confidence and meant I was more likely to appreciate my husband. Now, after two children, I find I have come to regret my earlier life. A key turning point for me was when I had my second child, with all the extra pressures that children bring. Importantly, I also regret my husband’s ‘earlier life’.

Politics plays an undeniable part in the personal. Defining myself as ‘modern’, I unquestioningly assumed that ‘living together’ was a necessary (or at least unavoidable) step in the marriage recipe. Since getting married, and moving to where all the married people are, I have found, to my utter astonishment, that several new friends I have made were virgins until they got married. They seem, from my post-children, old-age perspective, to have emotional resilience.

Of course, if I had responded to an online research project while I was living with an ex, or answered someone on the phone (whatever) I would have been unlikely to be anything but upbeat, modern and ''in control''. However, for many modern women marriage is pushed back so long, that they really feel they have no choice but to go de facto or have nothing at all.

Well, I’ve written an essay.

cheers guys

 

[Lamia]

For this, Thank you so much, Lara. Some of us foresee it in a sort of intuitive way (I call it "relationships aesthetics" for myself). Which is what prevents me from embracing my SO''s ideas, and painful as it is, I already see us drifting away from each other because of this intuitive knowledge that he seemingly cannot share with me. Such bits of emotional experience deserve to be gathered in a book, or something. Possibly in the far flung future this will be a common knowledge.

Date: 3/12/2008 5:51:27 AM
Author: LaraOnline
Also, people''s attitudes to things change with age. Early in my marriage, I would have responded to a questionnaire by saying I was happy to have de facto experience (with other people) because it gave me sexual confidence and meant I was more likely to appreciate my husband. Now, after two children, I find I have come to regret my earlier life. A key turning point for me was when I had my second child, with all the extra pressures that children bring. Importantly, I also regret my husband’s ‘earlier life’.


Politics plays an undeniable part in the personal. Defining myself as ‘modern’, I unquestioningly assumed that ‘living together’ was a necessary (or at least unavoidable) step in the marriage recipe. Since getting married, and moving to where all the married people are, I have found, to my utter astonishment, that several new friends I have made were virgins until they got married. They seem, from my post-children, old-age perspective, to have emotional resilience.


Of course, if I had responded to an online research project while I was living with an ex, or answered someone on the phone (whatever) I would have been unlikely to be anything but upbeat, modern and ''in control''. However, for many modern women marriage is pushed back so long, that they really feel they have no choice but to go de facto or have nothing at all.
...

cheers guys