Marriage, social class, and tattoos

[Ellen]

Date: 7/27/2007 1:11:16 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
I grew up in the 80''s with a father stuck in the 60''s and 70''s. I was surrounded by preppy wanna be yuppies and here was my dad the long haired hippie with several degrees who made money playing poker and caddying golf. He had a trashed beater car in multiple colors and my friends'' parents drove mercedes. My mom lived in the style of my friends so my father was my deep dark secret. I even lied about him once and said he was a weird uncle. But no one cared. No one actually thought it was bad even if they thought he was different. If anything people were interested and thought it was cool. My mother''s family was high upper middle class for the area and my father''s family....... was not even close. Now, having quirky stories to tell about my folks has brought many laughs to my friends... but not in a way that we''re disrespecting them, just it is interesting what happens when different people mix. My mom, a hairdresser, died with long red fingernails... my father hasn''t worn deodorant since *maybe* 1965 LOL But he was there at the hospital when she died despite having divorced 25 years earlier... he''s a good guy. She was a good woman. And I think I''m a good person. What else matters, really?

As far as mechanics go - knowing one personally is ALWAYS useful! LOL

What a great post.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 7/28/2007 11:20:10 AM
Author: AdaBeta27
All successful auto mechanics get experience working for somebody else and then go open their own shops. If he's not headed that way, wonder why.

I'm sorry, I'm very biased. I hate tattoos. But, I also had the good fortune to grow up in a family that had a lot of elderly WWII vets with huge ugly old tattoos of green and black anchors, etc. So, I decided by age 6 that tattoos were something to be avoided.

Now I am single and I have a set-in-concrete policy that tatts do not belong at my dinner table nor in my bed. To me, they are lower socioeconomic and plain stupid. Show me a man with tattoos and I'll show you someone who's capable of making a bad decision.

I live in a poor, hick, rural area where most people have HS educations or GEDs, and they bounce from mill job to mill job, drinking and drugging their way down. Their kids may go hungry and be turned out for prostitution, but by gosh, Mom and Dad have just gotta go get themselves a new tattoo. In 2 years of living here, I've come to despise tattoos and everything they stand for. Nothing says white trash like a prominant tattoo that can't be hidden.

Someone else brought up points: Everyone seems to have tatts, and people get them and later decide they shouldn't have. I'm surrounded by rural people with tatts. Literally, I'd bet 90% of the factory-worker males where I work have them. That would be 70-80 men. Of all those, there is only ONE that I would say has the brains, the job performance, and the right degree of leadership qualities to carry off a set of prominant tatts so that it's not a detriment to his career. But, he's got smarts, drive, and charm, and never lets anything fall between the cracks. He has enough class that he gets away with his counter-couture look, in a factory environment. With those tatts, he's limited where he can be employed and how far he'll be promoted.

As for the rest of those guys, I'd bet that a lot of them are regretting those tatts. They foolishly followed the herd, and later they found out just how much the'd handicapped themselves. They're nice family men with tatts that don't fit their current goals or lifestyles.

As for love and relationship, there are 4 kinds of intimacy:
intellectual
emotional
spiritual
physical

You have to determine for yourself if your and your guy are a match, where you are both wanting to go in life, and how long you'd be compatible. I married what I thought was a wonderful urban professional man, treated me and my cat with the utmost tenderness and respect. Well, literally as soon as he'd put the e-ring on my finger, he started morphing back into huntin-fishin-lazy-country-boy who doesn't want to work. He bounced frm job to job, then wound up in a state gov't job that didn't pay much but he could BS all of the time instead of work. As soon as she'd met him, my aunt told my mom that he WAS NOT the right man for me! How I wish she'd told ME! He turned out the be a total deadbeat who ran up over $37,000 on credit cards and did absolutely nothing around the house after we were married. So, listen to what your relatives say. Now I'm divorced and I never did figure out just who I'd married. Some alien shape-shifter species, I guess, LOL. Good thing the judge awarded him his $37000+ debts.

Wow...I don't even like my tattoos, and in fact, labeled them as "skanky", but your post has even offended ME.

Sounds like you need to get over the tattoo thing, and maybe...MOVE...since you seem to equate the unhappiness of where you live based on other's decisions. Seriously, it sounds like a sociological issue, not a tattoo issue.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

It's always a mistake to judge a person based on appearance. I once met an art teacher who is covered from neck to ankles in tattoos. She has won prizes in competitions and her picture has been in newspapers. I'm sure that many people would take one look at her, assume she's a low life low class person and/or a drugger and cross the street to avoid her. It would never occur to them that her IQ is probably at least twice as high as theirs.

 

[luckystar112]

I also wanted to say, in regards to mechanics moving up the ladder to getting their own shop, that it isn''t as easy as one might think. Especially if you''re great at your job, most shop owners don''t WANT you to move up. They want you to stay where you are and keep bringing in their business.

Not only that, but the industry is just falling apart anyway. Tons of competition, for one thing. Another thing is that the big name auto manufacturers have realized that there is a lot of money to be made if they can get people to fix their cars at the dealerships rather than independant shops. Technology is moving faster than the industry...it is estimated that mechanics should be in class learning about this technology for 20 hours a week just to keep up. The industry has been slow all around the U.S. and income levels have slowed because of it. That''s why my BF wants out. He loves the automotive industry, but knows that he needs to find something more stable. He''s been looking for a job as a fleet manager for different companies, but who knows how that will pan out. The only reason he is GM of a shop right now is because he "knew a guy". And in the hope of being able to own his own shop one day, he gave up all of his benefits and is even getting paid LESS in his new position. It''s really crappy.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hmmm. I'm not sure that tatoos "stand for" social problems either. I agree that many people regret them. But in terms of it showing that a person is capable of making a bad decision, adn should therefore be avoided... I wonder if I have ever in my life met someone who was totally incapable of making a bad decision. If I did meet such a person, I'm not sure I would like him or her, as making mistakes and bad decisions is part of being human.

Having good sound judgment doesn't mean never making mistakes.

Oh, and my best friend has a tatoo. She's a prize-winning novelist and short story writer, and the recipient of a prestigious arts grant. She has three degrees. Her work has been called "genius". Yes, she regrets her tatoo, and yes she (like everyone) has occasionally made bad decisions in her life but she sure ain't "skanky" or a lowlife. In fact, she is one of the most magnificent, brilliant, sensitive and accomplished human beings I know.

If someone avoided her because of her tatoo, they'd be making a rather bad decision themselves.

 

[luckystar112]

I just want to reiterate that I said *my* tattoos make *me* feel like I look skanky. I think the whole point of this, is to each their own.

I don''t know if anyone saw the SNL skit with Amy Poehler and the "turlingtons lower back tattoo remover". It was funny.

 

[Independent Gal]

I didn''t think you were saying anyone was skanky, Lucky! Just agreeing with you that tatoos don''t say much of substance about a person''s character.

 

[rainbowtrout]

OK, so I feel the need to point this out:

If you want to work in a white collar environment, you wear business shirts or at least CAN wear them. With kakis and a dress shirt, unless you have your face tattooed--which is highly unusual-- no one will notice. In fact, my stepmother worked in a white-collar job for YEARS with a prominent tatt on her ankle---everyone thought it was part of her hose, and would ask her where she found such a lovely patterned stocking!


The only possible issue might be at summer get-togethers for work, but you can either duck out and say you hate swimming, or more likely, as long as you cover up at work no one will care.

In terms of my own judgment of people, prison tatts worry me much more than beautiful artwork, and I do tend to be a little bit of a tattoo snob--the so-called "tramp stamps" kind of annoy me since those people usually end up regretting their tattoos, plus it shows an appalling lack of forethought--that skin stretches like mad when you have a baby! There *are* lovely tattoos out there, usually to my taste the Asian traditional ones, or simple, clean tribal designs.

There are a lot worse symptoms of societal breakdown than tattoos---you might as well say that people with nice cars are bad, because SOME families buy nicer cars instead of buying their children schoolbooks.

I guess I did come from "lower socioeconomic," so maybe my tattoo reflects that. If so, I think I'm proof that it isn't limiting. I am, after all, currently employed by the State Department, so I don't know how much more white-collar establishment you can get...


ETA: I noticed that the OP mentioned being uncomfortable at the beach. A word to the wise--his tatts will be with you for a long time, and you don't want them to look disgusting later---MAKE HIM WEAR SPF 50 ON IT ALL THE TIME IF THE TATTOO IS IN THE SUN. Each sunburn fades the tatoo and gives it that nasty, wrinkled look. It is even more ideal to cover the tattoo except at night or in low sunlight light. The layer of skin tattooed is the same layer that tans and sunburns.
Also, they have just come out with even better technology to laser them off, and by the time your man is 60 and wrinkled they are sure to have it down pat.

 

[Pandora II]

My 22 year old assistant at work currently has red and black hair, two nose rings, 12 earrings and a tattoo she designed herself from shoulder to hip. She also speaks the Queen''s English with a beautiful accent.

She has just gained a First in her degree at a very prestigious university and is about to start her masters. In her spare time she is a fetish model.

Most of our work meetings are held in the House of Lords, and no-one really bats and eyelid there. In fact I am having a job keeping her as so many of the people we work with, who are mainly CEO''s of FTSE 300 companies, are desperate to get hold of her as she is so bright and talented.

Not once has anyone suggested that she should remove her ironwork, cover the tattoo, change her haircolour or her wardrobe, and there can''t be many places more formal than the UK parliament buildings!

 

[Stone Hunter]

Interesting thread. Social class is really only an issue if the two people have different VALUES.

If the families don''t match up that''s too bad but it''s really if the couple matches up that''s important.

For example: Does he think it''s STUPID that you want to be a Prof? Or is it something he sees as worthwhile. His tatoos and job really mean nothing. It''s how well his VALUES match up with yours and how considerate he is of you. That also goes in reverse too.

 

[nytemist]

My core group of friends were really crazy during our teen years. Most of us have at least one tattoo. One friend has a gorgeaous fantasy dragon across his back and he is a surgeon. My other friend has a full sleeve of beautiful cherry blossoms on her arm and she is a photographer. She gets hired to do society weddings and other high-end assignments. She has never hidden it; she gets hired on her personality and ability. I could go on.

I know everyone has a right to their opion, but don''t generalize people who chose to add beautiful artwork to their body. I feel insulted by that. I have them and the spa I just interviewed with has no problem with them. They see lots of clients with money to burn and the owner of the spa has stars on her wrists.

 

[ursulawrite]

I live in downtown NYC and tattoos--along with porkpie hats, stovepipes, Converse, and ironic moustaches (boys only!)--are part of the uniform here. Artists, musos, filmmakers, and homestead foodie suppliers sure do dig their ink. I don''t like tattoos at all, but that''s just a personal thing. In no way do I find them offensive or indicative of a lowly IQ. In fact, if I see someone in this locale with a plethora of funky tattoos, I''ll actually assume the opposite.

 

[gailrmv]

I wouldn''t get a tattoo myself b/c I think I would regret it as I got older, and I''m conservative with my style. A few of my friends have tattoos in the lower back area, which I think look nice on them.

I wouldn''t judge a person''s character based on their tattoo or lack thereof, b/c it seems like people from all walks of life get tattoos.

I think some tattoos are sexy but I find big tattoos (on men or women) unattractive. Not anything to do with their character, just not attractive to me. Same as if they dressed in a style I didn''t like - purely cosmetic, yet something that you do notice when meeting a person.

 

[surfgirl]

I dont really care for tats at all - just a personal thing - and I always think "did you think about what that is going to look like on your body when you''re 50 and things start heading south?" The only thing I usually roll my eyes at is when women who have tats just HAVE to wear clothing that always reveals their tatoo. Either way too short shirts or low cut shirts so you can see their tattoo. It just makes me shake my head and think, "wow, so sad someone needs that much constant attention on themselves..." but I dont usually equate it with IQ since its really pretty mainstream now. I mean, tats used to be all counter culture but now Muffy from the country club has one so they''re pretty passe now, culturally speaking.

 

[elle_chris]

Wow, AdaBeta27- from your post it sounds as if you have other issues that you''re just pawning off on tatts.

Like Ursulawrite said, in nyc (i''m here as well but Battery Park) ink seems to be normal regardless of socioeconomic levels.
My husband works on Wall st. has two degrees, makes a six figure salary and has a HUGE tat on the inside of his upper arm.
I don''t make nearly as much as my husband but have one degree as well as a small tatt.
I honestly can''t believe that people today still associate tattoos with prison, low lives and the like. While I understand how many don''t like them, it''s ridiculous to assume that someone with a tattoo comes from a less than "desirable" background and has sketchy morals.
There are way more important things such as common goals, respect for one another, and love. A tattoo or multpile tatts should not be th deciding factor in a relationship.
WOW, still amazed at Adabetas post.

 

[phoenixgirl]

DH has a tattoo (praying hands on his ankle . . . funny because we''re not religious anymore). I remember worrying that my mom would disapprove (he also had his cartilege pierced, and I did too . . . the things we do when we''re 18!). But it was no big deal. Today DH is a financial advisor and that always involves long pants so no harm done.

Our closest neighbor friends are a college professor and her hippie husband. He earns money as a carpenter/handyman and playing jazz gigs. He has a college degree but obviously doesn''t need it for what he does. They seem entirely content with their setup. But maybe this is telling . . . she says that when they first met, she thought he was some dumb musician and told her friend he would be the "perfect one night stand." Then she got him back to her place and discovered he was literate and had attended the same Ivy league school she had. Yes, we judge people initially (let''s face it), but I think that most people are just looking to connect with others and once you get to know someone, you can be quite surprised at how wrong you were.

Do what makes you happy! I mean, seriously, are you considering giving up a man you think you want to marry because of your mother''s vague disapproval? If so, maybe your bond is not that solid . . . let this seemingly wonderful guy find someone who will fight for him! But if you just wanted us to reassure you so you can stand up to your mother''s disappointment, then be reassured . . . happiness is priceless, and if you have it, don''t give it up because of other people''s concerns. Sometimes what works for you isn''t what you thought you wanted when you were young and imagined your grownup life. If you''ve found a companion to face the world with, grab his hand and don''t let go!

 

[Erin]

I have a tattoo on my ankle and I think people look down on me because of it all the time. I make poor decisions daily, I''ve already held at least ten jobs in my lifetime, every time I wear shorts, dress or a skirt where my tat can be viewed I feel like white trash. It''s almost as if people know I work in a manufacturing plant of 1000 employees.

In the executive office: Good thing I''ve got smarts, drive and charm

 

[Po10472]

I have read this thread several times and each time I shake my head, amazed at what I have read. I have several piercings and still wear my nose stud even to work, I have a first degree and now studying for my masters and am a professional in local government in the UK. My husband is more successful than me, educated with an arts degree and has 4 tattoos and piercings in his nipple and tongue and no-one bats an eyelid. I don''t know if that''s because of the attitude to "anything goes" in the UK or if its the fact that we are treated and respected for who we are, not how we like to adorn our bodies. Pandora - point in case.

AdaBeta - not all tattoos are lower socioeconomic, plain stupid, white trash nor a handicap. I find it appauling that you should use the expression handicap.....ink on your body is not a handicap and I am insulted by that comment.

At the end of the day a tattoo is a personal choice and a personal regret if it doesn''t work out. In this day and age a person should not be discriminated against because of the way they look or what ''class'' they were brought up in. Who cares........really, in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter. Are you a better person without piercings and tattoos, conversely are you a worse person?

Laine - I can understand your concerns, but you should be happy that you have a man who loves and cares for you and respects you for all that you are. My DH would be devestated if he heard me say "other than the tattoos, he is a wonderful person". If people look down on someone because they chose to get a tattoo or piercing, that''s their problem. Judge people on how they behave and treat you, not by what colour their hair is or whether they have ink on their body.

 

[elle_chris]

Agree with Po10472 100%
As for AdaBeta, I can''t be insulted. When I read the post, i feel sorry that things seem to have worked out in such an unfortunate manner in your life.
Hope things go better in the future. Good luck.

 

[baby monster]

Laine, I think you have your answer. Some people do think like your mother and some don't.

I can't say that a lot of my friends have tattoos. I come from a background where only people who've been to jail have tattoos. So, although I don't actually think anyone who has a tattoo is a criminal or an idiot from a poor family, "jail" has been so deeply drilled into my subconcious mind that my first impression is always very negative. I do catch myself though and don't let it affect how I really think about the person.

My work environment is very conservative, so I don't think anyone with visible tattoos would get hired no matter how talented they are. The competition here is too great and HR can always find someone who fits in the mold but I'm sure there tons of places where a tattoo would not be a big deal.

 

[monarch64]

Well my .02 is that I have two tattoos from my college days in non-visible places unless I''m wearing a bikini, and now that I''m 30 I still don''t regret either of them. I''m married to a man who has zero tats and has a very nice white collar career, but says he''d still get a tat if he could just figure out what he wanted to have inked indefinitely on his body! I think tats are so personal and I''ve really never met anyone who looks down on them or thinks they''re skanky or white trash or whatever. Sure, full on sleeves MIGHT just pigeonhole someone a little as far as what others think of tattoos since they are hard to hide, but in my experience those who''ve chosen to really cover themselves in artwork like that aren''t usually trying to break into some sort of corporate conservative image anyway, and don''t really care what others think because they''re confident with the choices they''ve made in life.

Ya know, I knew at 18 when I got my first what I was getting into, and I also thought at that time, "well, if I ever regret this, there''ll be some really good removal techniques by the time I''m such and such age!" I still believe that...I know it''s a painful process still, but I still really like my tats and if 10 yrs. from now I don''t, well, I hold onto the belief that there will be better removal techniques out there. Heck, no one sees them but my DH anyway, and he thinks they''re cute.

 

[monarch64]

Oh, and yes, AdaBeta, I am a college grad with tats, I don''t live in a trailer, and I''ve not been shacking up barefoot and pregnant, nor have I ever been in prison. For that matter I''ve never even been arrested!!!

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 7/31/2007 2:54:38 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I have a tattoo on my ankle and I think people look down on me because of it all the time. I make poor decisions daily, I''ve already held at least ten jobs in my lifetime, every time I wear shorts, dress or a skirt where my tat can be viewed I feel like white trash. It''s almost as if people know I work in a manufacturing plant of 1000 employees.

In the executive office: Good thing I''ve got smarts, drive and charm

WOW you had me going. I was really worried about you for a second or two! Glad you were joking!

I kind of like tattoos on the ankle... BUT I just HATE HATE HATE needles.

 

[Erin]

Okay - please excuse the fact that I haven''t had time to paint my toenails and I have a ridiculous golf sock tan line...

 

[diamondfan]

I try to decide based on the person, and an honest days work can take many forms. If he is happy and loves his job and can support himself, god bless, there are many ways to skin a cat, he provides a valuable service and it takes a lot of skill with these complicated cars these days.

Money does make make someone classy. Some of the least classy people I know have the most money. Again, working hard and being good at what you do, whatever that is, is more important imho.

I am not a tattoo fan, just because on a whim it can seem cool and then you can regret it, permanent is scary to me. Also, being Jewish, tattoos upset me a bit. Just watched Dr. 90210 and this tv model was having a large one removed from the small of her back, 15 painful laser sessions, and is dying to get rid of it. But that is not to say all people who have them feel like that.

I recall a funny SNL skit where Amy Poehler and one other actress were talking about a tat removal product, and talking about how it may look cool when you are young and sexy but once you get old and wrinkled, not so much!

I always tell my kids, wear a fake one and see how you feel, because it hurts and is tough to remove, but honestly, a tattoo on a nice hardworking good person would not be my focal point. Do I prefer tasteful ones? Yes. Another funny story is Travis Barker, the drummer from Blink 182 covered himself in tats so he would have to make it as a drummer since he figured no other career would work out! I am not a fan of all over the body looking like a shirt stuff, but really would be fine with a small one, though I would never get one myself.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 8/1/2007 11:46:08 PM
Author: AdaBeta27

Nope, no issues, other than I can't fathom stupid people who make willingly make stupid choices. And I have nothing to 'get over.' I am one of the hardcore opposed who are totally fed up with this trendy self-mutilation and choose to not bother hiding that fact. Tattoos = No respect & no service & not hired, whenever I have the choice. I'm fed up with low-bred diversity. The rest of the word can get over the self-mutilation childishness and grow up. Sensible adults do not deliberately walk around looking counter-culture and lowbrow and expect the status-quo to gladly accommodate and welcome them! The world doesn't work that way. Tattoos are *so* last-century. You won't catch me adorning myself with any mark of a slave. If I make a bad decision, it's always someting that I can resell and cut my losses or maybe even make a profit. Try reselling that tatt sometime, kids.

Seriously....I am BLOWN away. Whatever happened to just saying, "tattoos aren't my thing" and leaving it at that. You are so extremely presumptuous, insulting, and out of line! Mark of a slave? Are you KIDDING ME?! The worst part, is that you're aren't just talking about "those" people, you are talking about us too!
People are STARVING and DYING in wars, and a little chinese symbol is enough to make you lose your lunch?!
Geez...why on EARTH are you single?

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 8/1/2007 11:46:08 PM
Author: AdaBeta27

Date: 7/31/2007 2:05:33 PM

Author: elle_chris

Wow, AdaBeta27- from your post it sounds as if you have other issues that you're just pawning off on tatts.


Like Ursulawrite said, in nyc (i'm here as well but Battery Park) ink seems to be normal regardless of socioeconomic levels.

My husband works on Wall st. has two degrees, makes a six figure salary and has a HUGE tat on the inside of his upper arm.

I don't make nearly as much as my husband but have one degree as well as a small tatt.

I honestly can't believe that people today still associate tattoos with prison, low lives and the like. While I understand how many don't like them, it's ridiculous to assume that someone with a tattoo comes from a less than 'desirable' background and has sketchy morals.

There are way more important things such as common goals, respect for one another, and love. A tattoo or multpile tatts should not be th deciding factor in a relationship.

WOW, still amazed at Adabetas post.

Nope, no issues, other than I can't fathom stupid people who make willingly make stupid choices. And I have nothing to 'get over.' I am one of the hardcore opposed who are totally fed up with this trendy self-mutilation and choose to not bother hiding that fact. Tattoos = No respect & no service & not hired, whenever I have the choice. I'm fed up with low-bred diversity. The rest of the word can get over the self-mutilation childishness and grow up. Sensible adults do not deliberately walk around looking counter-culture and lowbrow and expect the status-quo to gladly accommodate and welcome them! The world doesn't work that way. Tattoos are *so* last-century. You won't catch me adorning myself with any mark of a slave. If I make a bad decision, it's always someting that I can resell and cut my losses or maybe even make a profit. Try reselling that tatt sometime, kids.

While I do actually agree with AdaBeta that one has to think about the consequences of tattos and piercing--will you be employable at the kind of job you want? Will you look presentable? How easily can you cover the tattoo?---I do see this issue:

Sensible adults do not deliberately walk around looking counter-culture and lowbrow and expect the status-quo to gladly accommodate and welcome them! The world doesn't work that way.

You are right, it doesn't. But what IS happening in the world, as I think you can see from this thread, is that tattoos are becoming less and less "counterculture," and more "status quo." There are still places where they are not appropriate; however, the evidence seems to indicate that the trend is changing. Tattoos did only use to be acceptable in a certain class of people (sailors, prostitutes, soldiers) but that has changed!


Diamondfan: FI's family is Jewish and I have a feeling that when they find out it will make them a bit uncomfortable as well! But they'll get over it, I'm not going to run out and get FI tattooed. It wouldn't suit him.

 

[rainbowtrout]

And just for kicks, my large, "low-class" tattoo:

(this isn''t the best picture in the world of it, I was tired after a party and FI thought it would be amusing to take pictures of me while grumpy)

 

[Madam Bijoux]

A little survey:

If your life or the life of one of your loved ones was on the line and the only available doctor was covered with tattoos, would you decline the doctor''s help because of the tats?

 

[onedrop]

Starset/Rainbow: Thanks for showing off your artwork! Rainbow the artist that did your work was amazing.