Kaleigh
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Michael Jackson Verdict?
- Thread starter blueroses
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The dove releasing was WAAAY over the top.
Honestly, I can rest easier with this verdict than with OJ''s, but our national obsession with celebrity--of which I am an admitted pop-culter junkie part--is really disturbing. This, the runaway bride, Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton and not Darfur, Iraq, our domestic economy, etc.
Anyway, I''m an admitted part of the problem, but our whole cult of personality is depressing. (But my mom and I were talking about this, and I guess it''s always been thus: the Lions and the Christians, etc.
Honestly, I can rest easier with this verdict than with OJ''s, but our national obsession with celebrity--of which I am an admitted pop-culter junkie part--is really disturbing. This, the runaway bride, Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton and not Darfur, Iraq, our domestic economy, etc.
Anyway, I''m an admitted part of the problem, but our whole cult of personality is depressing. (But my mom and I were talking about this, and I guess it''s always been thus: the Lions and the Christians, etc.
Kaleigh
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IrishEyes
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Blueroses, I agree with you! Why do we care so much about these people and not the things that really matter? When I was overseas on my military deployment, all I read was politics. I cared soooo much because I was caught in the middle of it all. But then I came home and fell into the celebrity trap. I stopped paying attention to the media''s view on politics and such because I felt it was incredibly biased and misinformed.
when I was in Ireland a few weeks ago, I watched their news alot, including BBC. I must say, they do a MUCH better job on reporting on political issues and world happenings and events. They don''t seem so biased. I prefer the European news system over ours by far.....
when I was in Ireland a few weeks ago, I watched their news alot, including BBC. I must say, they do a MUCH better job on reporting on political issues and world happenings and events. They don''t seem so biased. I prefer the European news system over ours by far.....
IrishEyes
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Kaleigh
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IrishEyes
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pearcrazy
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I became convinced during the triall that this never should have seen court.
Is M.J weird. Yes.
Did he do some things that he should not have done. Yes.
Did he actually do anything major that was criminal. Perhaps. (keep in mind that the average person commits some minor crimes almost every day with all the laws we have on the books about all kinds of things)
Is there any major evidence that stands up to the standard "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt." Nothing that I saw.
I will give the Jury the benifit of the doubt on the minor (reduced) charges. I saw them as fishing for something by the prosecution because the prosecution knew that they did not have anything on the major charges.
Is there any real pattern that I see in his life that would make me really suspicious (other than wierdness) - no.
Lots of people get accused of lots of things, many of which are only in the mind of the accuser. I myself have 3 times been accused of sexual harrasment when all I did was offer to help someone who told me their problems. In 2 of those cases I even mentioned that there were other aid organizations I would contact for them for their help (i.e. I would not even be doing the major helping). However, I was then accused of sexual advances. In one of the cases it came down to the gal admitting that as she saw it that I wanted sex because otherwise I would not have offered to help her. I don''t know the motivation for the other cases. All I know is that I no longer offer to help gals quite so fast (rarely now I admit).
Perry
Is M.J weird. Yes.
Did he do some things that he should not have done. Yes.
Did he actually do anything major that was criminal. Perhaps. (keep in mind that the average person commits some minor crimes almost every day with all the laws we have on the books about all kinds of things)
Is there any major evidence that stands up to the standard "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt." Nothing that I saw.
I will give the Jury the benifit of the doubt on the minor (reduced) charges. I saw them as fishing for something by the prosecution because the prosecution knew that they did not have anything on the major charges.
Is there any real pattern that I see in his life that would make me really suspicious (other than wierdness) - no.
Lots of people get accused of lots of things, many of which are only in the mind of the accuser. I myself have 3 times been accused of sexual harrasment when all I did was offer to help someone who told me their problems. In 2 of those cases I even mentioned that there were other aid organizations I would contact for them for their help (i.e. I would not even be doing the major helping). However, I was then accused of sexual advances. In one of the cases it came down to the gal admitting that as she saw it that I wanted sex because otherwise I would not have offered to help her. I don''t know the motivation for the other cases. All I know is that I no longer offer to help gals quite so fast (rarely now I admit).
Perry
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I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. No, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I read a lot of legal thrillers. I also didn't follow the Michael Jackson trial. That makes me an expert on all aspects of this case.
I recently read (in a legal thriller) that the reason the words on the ballot the jury sees are: "guilty" and "not guilty" rather than "guilty" and "innocent" is that it does not behoove the defense to prove the defendant innocent. The jury may even think the defendant is probably guilty, but the jury has to find the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. From the smattering of reading I did, the witnesses were lacking in credibilty. If that caused reasonable doubt, the jury is supposed to vote, "not guilty" (as opposed to "innocent").
Since I *didn't* follow the trial would some of you who followed closely tell me if you felt the prosecution proved guilt (as opposed to whether Michael Jackson "seemed guilty").
Deb
I recently read (in a legal thriller) that the reason the words on the ballot the jury sees are: "guilty" and "not guilty" rather than "guilty" and "innocent" is that it does not behoove the defense to prove the defendant innocent. The jury may even think the defendant is probably guilty, but the jury has to find the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. From the smattering of reading I did, the witnesses were lacking in credibilty. If that caused reasonable doubt, the jury is supposed to vote, "not guilty" (as opposed to "innocent").
Since I *didn't* follow the trial would some of you who followed closely tell me if you felt the prosecution proved guilt (as opposed to whether Michael Jackson "seemed guilty").
Deb
ame
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pearcrazy
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If Michael Jackson were just the man down the street and not a superstar, how would the community react to him having boys spending the night at his home, in his bed and being accused of giving them wine, letting them watch pornographic acts on the internet and touching them inappropriately?
Remember, this isn't the first time he's been accused of such acts. The young boy who reported sexual abuse in the early 90's correctly identified some distinctive markings on Michael Jackson's private parts. The big problem in this trial was the credibility of the witnesses. It killed the case for the prosecution. There were just too many former employees and others who reported seeing inappropriate behavior to have EVERY ONE of them lying and conspriring against him. I place the burden of the blame squarely on the MOTHER of the accuser. NO WAY IN HELL would I allow my children to spend the night unchaperoned in the bedroom of a grown man, ESPECIALLY since he has been accused of molestation in the past. I'm a little bit sickened because I think she was looking for it to happen to get a huge judgement like the first boy did. There just wasn't enough evidence and the accuser and his family came off too much like grifters. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I think it did, but I also think the prosecution just couldn't prove it.
I'm disgusted......but not surprised at all........
Remember, this isn't the first time he's been accused of such acts. The young boy who reported sexual abuse in the early 90's correctly identified some distinctive markings on Michael Jackson's private parts. The big problem in this trial was the credibility of the witnesses. It killed the case for the prosecution. There were just too many former employees and others who reported seeing inappropriate behavior to have EVERY ONE of them lying and conspriring against him. I place the burden of the blame squarely on the MOTHER of the accuser. NO WAY IN HELL would I allow my children to spend the night unchaperoned in the bedroom of a grown man, ESPECIALLY since he has been accused of molestation in the past. I'm a little bit sickened because I think she was looking for it to happen to get a huge judgement like the first boy did. There just wasn't enough evidence and the accuser and his family came off too much like grifters. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I think it did, but I also think the prosecution just couldn't prove it.
I'm disgusted......but not surprised at all........
LadyluvsLuxury
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strmrdr
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Your right and as too the answer to your question the only 12 people that count said they didnt prove he did it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Do I think he is a slime bag and wouldnt allow him around anyone in my family. YEP.
The mom needed to be charged for putting her kid in the room with him in the first place.
pearcrazy
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Kaleigh
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AGBF,
Diane Diamond is the supreme expert on MJ. She has followed all his cases, trials etc... She used to host Hard Copy. Now she works for court TV. She knows more about him than I care to think about. I bet she's shocked, just like most of us are. I am repulsed by the whole thing.
On a more personal note this hits close to home. That's all I will say, and I feel for the other kids out there. What is this telling them??
Diane Diamond is the supreme expert on MJ. She has followed all his cases, trials etc... She used to host Hard Copy. Now she works for court TV. She knows more about him than I care to think about. I bet she's shocked, just like most of us are. I am repulsed by the whole thing.
MissAva
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moremoremore
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LadyluvsLuxury
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I would like to think that he is innocent but who knows. I don''t know all the facts about the case so I can''t make a ''judgement call''. There is no doubt that he is a very very strange man but that does not make him a child molester. I think he is someone who never got to experience a real childhood and became so twisted inside that he is trying to be a child.
Is he an evil person? Are the accusers just opportunistic people?
Just like in all cases, I hope the jury got it right.
Is he an evil person? Are the accusers just opportunistic people?
Just like in all cases, I hope the jury got it right.
Jennifer5973
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Blue824
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I think you said it right, storm...no where in the case was there a piece of evidence that just made you think. omg he''s guilty beyond a doubt.
If I was a parent of a young boy and there had been previous cases/rumors of this, would I have EVER let my child sleep over there?!?? No way!! I mean, I just think it shows a severe lack of judgement from the parents. I really feel like the past actions made this look like more of a ''set up'' as opposed to them being sincerely concerned about the child''s well being.
I just really think that MJ was an easy target, i am by no means saying he always acted appropriately, but I talked about this at work wtih a couple cops and it was that there is a line between inappropriate and illegal. I don''t know what happened, no one ever will, except for MJ and the boy. I don''t care that much, but I still have an opinion on this all. I didnt really follow the of the trail, but like F&I, AGBF and a couple others have commented on, the case wasn''t as strong as it should''ve been, so I guess this outcome doesnt surprise me. Never once did I hear about anything that made me say "he is definitely guilty." But I know a lot of people feel differently.
Oh well...I really hope he just stays away from children now though! You''d have thought after the first accusation that his attorneys would''ve stopped these sleepovers and events with children. It just seems like asking for trouble. Anyhow, it did make for a fun hour at work with everyone talking and checking up on everything.
icekid
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anyone w/ some sense would have stopped having children sleep in their bed, right? (which is freaking bizarre in the first place)... but a pedophile? wouldn''t be able to stop. i''m sure his lawyers told him to stop. and i''m sure he''ll do it again too.
anyone know how the defense explained away the kid''s prints being on a **** magazine??
i agree w/ everyone that the mother is nuts though. given her history, it seems like she was hoping for this to happen.
MJ sure does know how to pick his victims though!! but then, most pedophiles do!
Oh, in no way am I saying this "man" is innocent. Buzz in the security world - no one wanted *his* detail.
That said, he''s in serious financial difficulty. I read in my antique rag that he owes the major auction houses hundreds of thousands & person non-gratis. Justice has a way of working itself out.
Unfortunately, the witnesses had serious credibility issues. I heard this morning that the jury was to consider only the charges by these victims. Also, one pundint said that the "conspiracy" charge was cocky & set the stage for dismissal of most of the charges.
That said, he''s in serious financial difficulty. I read in my antique rag that he owes the major auction houses hundreds of thousands & person non-gratis. Justice has a way of working itself out.
Unfortunately, the witnesses had serious credibility issues. I heard this morning that the jury was to consider only the charges by these victims. Also, one pundint said that the "conspiracy" charge was cocky & set the stage for dismissal of most of the charges.
tawn
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Note: TMI ALERT! If you are too sensitive...don''t read further!
I worked with severely abused children for 2 years in Boston (all I could handle), and children who have been horribly abused and neglected have a hard time admitting to it. There is so much shame, pain, and stigma attached to it...it''s a dirty secret that they don''t want to share. There was one kid in particular that stands out in my memory, he had been raped over a period of time by his Mother''s boyfriend when he was around 4-5 years old. The physical damage was so great, that he didn''t have complete "control" of his bowels any longer. When I met him, he was 15, in the Foster Care System, would wear layers of underwear, and 2 pairs of pants in an effort to hide/catch his accidents. He wouldn''t let the Dr examine him, and they had to have orderlies catch him and hold him down. He was about 110lbs and it took 4 men to restrain him. There was no doubt, the boyfriend had admitted it and had been to jail for molesting other children, but he wasn''t ever brought up on charges in that case as far as I know....partly because the kid swore up and down that he hadn''t been molested. He just wanted so badly to be "normal"....
I''m very sad to say that his was one of the milder cases, which is why I burned out after 2 years. I''m still haunted daily by those children, and when people chide me for being overprotective of my son...I just think about how some of those children could have used a little more protection. Some of things people do to children are completely unspeakable...and a lot of children don''t ever tell because they, or their loved ones are threatened, and they are just too ashamed. Actually, a large percentages of abuse are reported by other people...
I would never let my 11 yr-old within 100 miles of MJ! Let alone sleep in his bed....what the hell are those parents thinking! The kid is the true victim of all of this...and the crowds are crying for MJ? What a freak show! They need to get a real life and do something that helps the true victims...not cheer on the pervert!
I just have to trust that Karma knows how to find MJ!
I worked with severely abused children for 2 years in Boston (all I could handle), and children who have been horribly abused and neglected have a hard time admitting to it. There is so much shame, pain, and stigma attached to it...it''s a dirty secret that they don''t want to share. There was one kid in particular that stands out in my memory, he had been raped over a period of time by his Mother''s boyfriend when he was around 4-5 years old. The physical damage was so great, that he didn''t have complete "control" of his bowels any longer. When I met him, he was 15, in the Foster Care System, would wear layers of underwear, and 2 pairs of pants in an effort to hide/catch his accidents. He wouldn''t let the Dr examine him, and they had to have orderlies catch him and hold him down. He was about 110lbs and it took 4 men to restrain him. There was no doubt, the boyfriend had admitted it and had been to jail for molesting other children, but he wasn''t ever brought up on charges in that case as far as I know....partly because the kid swore up and down that he hadn''t been molested. He just wanted so badly to be "normal"....
I''m very sad to say that his was one of the milder cases, which is why I burned out after 2 years. I''m still haunted daily by those children, and when people chide me for being overprotective of my son...I just think about how some of those children could have used a little more protection. Some of things people do to children are completely unspeakable...and a lot of children don''t ever tell because they, or their loved ones are threatened, and they are just too ashamed. Actually, a large percentages of abuse are reported by other people...
I would never let my 11 yr-old within 100 miles of MJ! Let alone sleep in his bed....what the hell are those parents thinking! The kid is the true victim of all of this...and the crowds are crying for MJ? What a freak show! They need to get a real life and do something that helps the true victims...not cheer on the pervert!
I just have to trust that Karma knows how to find MJ!
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