Michelle's helps with college admission

[sstephensid]

ruby, you say 5.0 is a perfect gpa which leads me to believe you don't know what gpa is used widely in The US. The traditional gpa chart uses a 4.0 system. You can get above a 4.0 by taking weighted courses. Unless she is at a school with a different system, surely that would be converted to the traditional 4.0 system to avoid confusion.

I'm sure that doesn't change your mind. For whatever reason, you have decided this girl isn't worthy. Fortunately, you don't get to decide whether this girl was accepted or not!!

 

[ruby59]

ruby, you say 5.0 is a perfect gpa which leads me to believe you don't know what gpa is used widely in The US. The traditional gpa chart uses a 4.0 system. You can get above a 4.0 by taking weighted courses. Unless she is at a school with a different system, surely that would be converted to the traditional 4.0 system to avoid confusion.

I'm sure that doesn't change your mind. For whatever reason, you have decided this girl isn't worthy. Fortunately, you don't get to decide whether this girl was accepted or not!!

No clue what you are talking about. I have 3 who took the advanced placement courses. I worked in the school system.

Her score is obviously out of 5.

As to the rest this is a discussion board not the college acceptance or denial board. That is obvious to anyone who posts here.

 

[OreoRosies86]

N


Not at all, I was agreeing with you.. sorry my kid isn't dumb, he's probably damn smart, but he wasn't smart enough to care or want to go Ivy.. and we don't have legacy ha! I went to SUNY and hubster went to University of Illinois, Circle..

My kid is doing very well without even going to Ivy

I agree, I saw a lot when my boys were young.. the 'gifted' group! Peace and sorry if I come across wrong I have this bad habit of writing what I say and not think. (SUNY grad )

I have a bad habit of reading PS before coffee

 

[azstonie]

Do you think Yaya is that unique. She is an actress.

We had high school kids who went overseas to volunteer, who started their own very successful companies, who had patents on products they invented, that were turned down, leaving their AP teachers and the Principal clueless as to how that could happen.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Diversity. Admissions committees are looking for DIVERSITY. There are a lot of outstanding applicants for every freshman class at the top tier universities. THAT is how outstanding kids fail to gain admission. They aren't unique in being outstanding at the top tier unis.

 

[azstonie]

Then I guess the difference between you and I is that I have seen it from the other side of students who have worked their tails off all their lives with impeccable grades and resume absolutely gutted because they were wait listed or turned down because the seat went to someone else with absolutely no explanation why.

Well, bless your heart. No one should be "gutted" because they don't get something they want. As an admissions committee member, I will tell you that grades are not reliable predictors of success/graduation from a university; so many 'helicopter' parents get grades changed, and frankly so many courses are subpar, that grades aren't a big factor in admissions.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Well, bless your heart. No one should be "gutted" because they don't get something they want. As an admissions committee member, I will tell you that grades are not reliable predictors of success/graduation from a university; so many 'helicopter' parents get grades changed, and frankly so many courses are subpar, that grades aren't a big factor in admissions.

Gotta love those helicopter parents. "My little Johnny wanted to go to Yale! Thwarted by Obama and diversity again! UNFAIR! SAD!"

 

[plad25]

No clue what you are talking about. I have 3 who took the advanced placement courses. I worked in the school system.

Her score is obviously out of 5.

As to the rest this is a discussion board not the college acceptance or denial board. That is obvious to anyone who posts here.

I don't think anybody can make an assumption about her gpa and the grading system. Courses are not weighted the same across school districts in my state- I believe an A at our district for an AP class was 4.25. Similar to how some schools in my area had a threshold for A's at 93% vs others at 90%. It varies. There are also classes students obviously have to take that cannot be Honors or AP level like gym or health, so 5.0 gpa would not be achievable on a 5 pt scale. Or maybe my school was inferior by not offering AP gym.

 

[ruby59]

Unless you know her graduation GPA, her SATs, read her essay, read her AP Calc teacher's recommendation you cannot make any judgement. Unless you sat there while the teams that go over apps then you cannot say that she got in because Michelle Obama wrote her a recommendation.

I feel very happy in my alternate universe to yours. Peace. Out.

Try stepping out into the real world of high school and kids applying to colleges. Unfortunately that is where you will deal with the hard facts.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Diversity. Admissions committees are looking for DIVERSITY. There are a lot of outstanding applicants for every freshman class at the top tier universities. THAT is how outstanding kids fail to gain admission. They aren't unique in being outstanding at the top tier unis.

But when you have a virtual tie between candidates what is that extra push that gets them in?

 

[monarch64]

I'd say the extra push might come down to which one is a total dick.

 

[ksinger]

Well, bless your heart. No one should be "gutted" because they don't get something they want. As an admissions committee member, I will tell you that grades are not reliable predictors of success/graduation from a university; so many 'helicopter' parents get grades changed, and frankly so many courses are subpar, that grades aren't a big factor in admissions.

Grade inflation!!! And it's now happening at the college level too. Mommy and Daddy are paying a premium for that college education, Little Johnny better get great grades for that price.

 

[canuk-gal]

Grade inflation!!! And it's now happening at the college level too. Mommy and Daddy are paying a premium for that college education, Little Johnny better get great grades for that price.

This is distressing. Very distressing. Please provide evidence (then it wont matter if MO did provide a letter for a student...then of course it will matter it she did to "grade inflating" programs...)

 

[ksinger]

This is distressing. Very distressing. Please provide evidence (then it wont matter if MO did provide a letter for a student...then of course it will matter it she did to "grade inflating" programs...)

I was responding to the "helicopter parents" getting grades changed. It made me immediately think of grade inflation at the college level, which I read about years ago. I was making no point, really. Just making a comment.

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say, but grade inflation at the college level is very well documented. Much harder to fix of course, but certainly well documented.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

http://www.gradeinflation.com

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...rise-four-year-colleges-not-community-college

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/same-performance-better-grades/384447/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/column-how-an-epidemic-of-grade-inflation-made-as-average/

 

[t-c]

No clue what you are talking about. I have 3 who took the advanced placement courses. I worked in the school system.

Her score is obviously out of 5.

As to the rest this is a discussion board not the college acceptance or denial board. That is obvious to anyone who posts here.

Only AP and Honors level classes are out of a 5.0 where an A=5.0, B=4.0, etc, basically giving the grade a 1 point bonus. Regular classes such are PE are based on the regular 4.0 scale. Most students don't start taking AP classes until their sophomore or junior year. So it will be VERY difficult to get a 5.0 GPA.

I've never heard of a high school operating on a 5.0 GPA. If that's the case, unis would adjust down the GPA of any applicant from that school. Which may explain why your students couldn't get in to their college of choice.

Try stepping out into the real world of high school and kids applying to colleges. Unfortunately that is where you will deal with the hard facts.

But when you have a virtual tie between candidates what is that extra push that gets them in?

We've all applied to universities -- and very competitive ones -- so it's not like we have no idea what it's like.

When there's a virtual tie, the personal statement makes a difference -- and it's easy to tell when the personal statement is honest/sincere vs written/edited by a consultant. How they perform in the interview also. Letters of recs may make a difference, but only if they give real insight into the candidate. Ironically, if as you say Michelle Obama doesn't really know Yara, then her letter of recommendation would actually be of no help. I doubt admission officers care who the recommendation is from if it's cursory and superficial. (You keep saying no one says no to Michelle Obama, but she was not the one applying.)

BTW, kids who volunteer abroad aren't all that unique. Frank Bruni of the NY Times even wrote a piece on it: To Get to Harvard, Go to Haiti?.

ETA: I can't believe this thread is still going. Yara seems like a stellar candidate -- she's basically working a full-time job while taking a full load of classes, getting good grades that were backed up by high SAT/ACT scores, starting her own foundation. How anyone would think she only got into the schools because of Michelle Obama's letter of recommendation is beyond me.

 

[sstephensid]

No clue what you are talking about. I have 3 who took the advanced placement courses. I worked in the school system.

Her score is obviously out of 5.

As to the rest this is a discussion board not the college acceptance or denial board. That is obvious to anyone who posts here.

Google is your friend.

 

[ruby59]

Why would I need google when I have 3 children who went through the experience at well as worked for various Principals in the school systems and came across this as part of my job.

Where are you getting your info from.

By the way I asked one of my girl's last night and her GPA was 4.95.

 

[t-c]

Why would I need google when I have 3 children who went through the experience at well as worked for various Principals in the school systems and came across this as part of my job.

Where are you getting your info from.

By the way I asked one of my girl's last night and her GPA was 4.95.

Okay, if her school was operating off a 5.0 scale, she didn't get straight A's in high school?

 

[ruby59]

Never said she did.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Wow, good for her! She sounds like an impressive young woman! She must have impressed Michelle Obama if she was willing to write a recommendation letter for her. I'm sure she doesn't do that for everyone. I hope she is wildly successful!

 

[Tekate]

Try stepping out into the real world of high school and kids applying to colleges. Unfortunately that is where you will deal with the hard facts.


But when you have a virtual tie between candidates what is that extra push that gets them in?

Ruby, if you read my comments about my son you will see I was in the real world, (and with luck I still am ??? ) As I said my kid didn't care if he went to ANY ivy college (although I think he really wanted to go to UT ) my son read that it really doesn't matter where you go to college so he remembered that line. But if you think I wasn't living in the world of competitive parents and kids going to tier 1 colleges I got a bridge for you.. I heard this stuff from the time my younger son hit kindergarten (1997).. I heard about the asian invasion, I heard about cheaters, I saw kids who worked harder than my son and didn't score as high on the SATs.. what I really saw was parents who cared a lot more than the kids did.

 

[partgypsy]

I'm going to go by my own experience applying for college, so thing may be different now. I ended up getting into more competitive colleges than my best friend, who had higher grade point average and at least as good SAT scores. How could this happen? When going to HS, I also worked part time at my Dad's business, I wrote and had published, played piano, as well as some other extra curricular activities. Two of the places U of Chicago and an elite liberal arts college, had me personally interview, basically tested me whether the things I had put on my application I had actual experience with, versus "padding", as well as seeing how I thought on my feet. What universities and colleges are looking for, are not one-dimensional people who are only motivated by what their grade point average is, but who can write or articulate well, and have a passion and a geniune interest and independent judgement in some field or area. Having the (balls) excuse my language to ask a first lady for a letter of recommendation (something at that age I wouldn't have had the courage to do) is an ADDITIONAL bonus.
Ruby I know that for you, perhaps the choices that admissions makes doesn't seem "fair". It does makes sense if you think that they are simply looking for people who will be future successes. Having a high grade point average and high test scores are only part of the equation.
ps: my friend with the higher gpa is a very intelligent and well-read librarian. I ended up with a PhD and have over 20 publications as well as a book chapter, and am published in another area as well.

 

[t-c]

But when you have a virtual tie between candidates what is that extra push that gets them in?

Here you go, ruby. It seems a former Admissions Director at Dartmouth addressed your concern about letters of recommendation from famous people. I've linked to the original piece in the title.

Check This Box if You’re a Good Person
by Rebecca Sabky
Rebecca Sabky is a former admissions director at Dartmouth.

HANOVER, N.H. — When I give college information sessions at high schools, I’m used to being swarmed by students. Usually, as soon as my lecture ends, they run up to hand me their résumés, fighting for my attention so that they can tell me about their internships or summer science programs.

But last spring, after I spoke at a New Jersey public school, I ran into an entirely different kind of student.

When the bell rang, I stuffed my leftover pamphlets into a bag and began to navigate the human tsunami that is a high school hallway at lunchtime.

Just before I reached the parking lot, someone tapped me on the shoulder.

“Excuse me, ma’am,” a student said, smiling through a set of braces. “You dropped a granola bar on the floor in the cafeteria. I chased you down since I thought you’d want your snack.” Before I could even thank him, he handed me the bar and dissolved into the sea of teenagers.

Working in undergraduate admissions at Dartmouth College has introduced me to many talented young people. I used to be the director of international admissions and am now working part time after having a baby. Every year I’d read over 2,000 college applications from students all over the world. The applicants are always intellectually curious and talented. They climb mountains, head extracurricular clubs and develop new technologies. They’re the next generation’s leaders. Their accomplishments stack up quickly.

The problem is that in a deluge of promising candidates, many remarkable students become indistinguishable from one another, at least on paper. It is incredibly difficult to choose whom to admit. Yet in the chaos of SAT scores, extracurriculars and recommendations, one quality is always irresistible in a candidate: kindness. It’s a trait that would be hard to pinpoint on applications even if colleges asked the right questions. Every so often, though, it can’t help shining through.

The most surprising indication of kindness I’ve ever come across in my admissions career came from a student who went to a large public school in New England. He was clearly bright, as evidenced by his class rank and teachers’ praise. He had a supportive recommendation from his college counselor and an impressive list of extracurriculars. Even with these qualifications, he might not have stood out. But one letter of recommendation caught my eye. It was from a school custodian.

Letters of recommendation are typically superfluous, written by people who the applicant thinks will impress a school. We regularly receive letters from former presidents, celebrities, trustee relatives and Olympic athletes. But they generally fail to provide us with another angle on who the student is, or could be as a member of our community.

This letter was different.

The custodian wrote that he was compelled to support this student’s candidacy because of his thoughtfulness. This young man was the only person in the school who knew the names of every member of the janitorial staff. He turned off lights in empty rooms, consistently thanked the hallway monitor each morning and tidied up after his peers even if nobody was watching. This student, the custodian wrote, had a refreshing respect for every person at the school, regardless of position, popularity or clout.

Over 15 years and 30,000 applications in my admissions career, I had never seen a recommendation from a school custodian. It gave us a window onto a student’s life in the moments when nothing “counted.” That student was admitted by unanimous vote of the admissions committee.

There are so many talented applicants and precious few spots. We know how painful this must be for students. As someone who was rejected by the school where I ended up as a director of admissions, I know firsthand how devastating the words “we regret to inform you” can be.

Until admissions committees figure out a way to effectively recognize the genuine but intangible personal qualities of applicants, we must rely on little things to make the difference. Sometimes an inappropriate email address is more telling than a personal essay. The way a student acts toward his parents on a campus tour can mean as much as a standardized test score. And, as I learned from that custodian, a sincere character evaluation from someone unexpected will mean more to us than any boilerplate recommendation from a former president or famous golfer.

Next year there might be a flood of custodian recommendations thanks to this essay. But if it means students will start paying as much attention to the people who clean their classrooms as they do to their principals and teachers, I’m happy to help start that trend.

Colleges should foster the growth of individuals who show promise not just in leadership and academics, but also in generosity of spirit. Since becoming a mom, I’ve also been looking at applications differently. I can’t help anticipating my son’s own dive into the college admissions frenzy 17 years from now.

Whether or not he even decides to go to college when the time is right, I want him to resemble a person thoughtful enough to return a granola bar, and gracious enough to respect every person in his community.

 

[madelise]

There's so much privilege in this thread, I can't help but laugh.

 

[ruby59]

Here you go, ruby. It seems a former Admissions Director at Dartmouth addressed your concern about letters of recommendation from famous people. I've linked to the original piece in the title.

I will say it again. We are not talking about a random famous person, but a very well liked First Lady. And unless this student is a total clown, I do not see the school turning her down, especially since it was brought out into the open and again especially since it is Mrs. Obama's Alma Mater.

 

[ruby59]

There's so much privilege in this thread, I can't help but laugh.

My two so far graduated in the top 3 and top 2 of their classes. Both scored extremely high in their SAT's and held down part time jobs.

I am Jewish and even though her father is not, my oldest girl identifies as Jewish. She went to Providence College, a very Catholic school here in Rhode Island because she got a 3/4 scholarship and could commute to save money.

She had to take Western Civ for two years which is based on the New Testament. My daughter was at a very big disadvantage over the others in that she never went to Sunday School, or Church, so this was quite different then what she learned in Temple.

Yet, she worked her a$$ off. At the end of the semesters, the Priest would shake her hand and congratulate her on how dedicated she was.

She graduated Summa Cum Laude from there. No privilege being one of a very few Jews in a Catholic School.. Just a lot of hard work.

 

[t-c]

I will say it again. We are not talking about a random famous person, but a very well liked First Lady. And unless this student is a total clown, I do not see the school turning her down, especially since it was brought out into the open and again especially since it is Mrs. Obama's Alma Mater.

The bolded makes me think you did not even read the piece I posted. I will quote her:

Letters of recommendation are typically superfluous, written by people who the applicant thinks will impress a school. We regularly receive letters from former presidents, celebrities, trustee relatives and Olympic athletes. But they generally fail to provide us with another angle on who the student is, or could be as a member of our community.

Not just a random famous person, but a former president! The point this Admissions Director is making is that it is the quality of the recommendation, not who it's from, because an insightful letter from a Janitor counted more for the Dartmouth admissions committee than a "boilerplate" one from any famous person.

 

[ruby59]

The bolded makes me think you did not even read the piece I posted. I will quote her:



Not just a random famous person, but a former president! The point this Admissions Director is making is that it is the quality of the recommendation, not who it's from, because an insightful letter from a Janitor counted more for the Dartmouth admissions committee than a "boilerplate" one from any famous person.

You are speaking about Dartmouth and their policy. You cannot apply it to every other IVY college or any other university for that matter.

And was this school the former President's alma mater as well. And who was this President?

Sorry but for all we know this could just be just some statement to make everyone think it does not matter.

Do you have any kids who applied to college or know a lot of people who have? What actually goes behind the scenes vs what they tell you are two totally different animals.

 

[madelise]

LMAO.

 

[jordyonbass]

My two so far graduated in the top 3 and top 2 of their classes. Both scored extremely high in their SAT's and held down part time jobs.

I am Jewish and even though her father is not, my oldest girl identifies as Jewish. She went to Providence College, a very Catholic school here in Rhode Island because she got a 3/4 scholarship and could commute to save money.

She had to take Western Civ for two years which is based on the New Testament. My daughter was at a very big disadvantage over the others in that she never went to Sunday School, or Church, so this was quite different then what she learned in Temple.

Yet, she worked her a$$ off. At the end of the semesters, the Priest would shake her hand and congratulate her on how dedicated she was.

She graduated Summa Cum Laude from there. No privilege being one of a very few Jews in a Catholic School.. Just a lot of hard work.

So let me ask you this then Ruby; they worked hard and obviously did pretty well if we are to believe what you have said so if a presidential candidate, the president, former president or the spouse of said person was wishing to endorse your child then you would do your best to refuse/decline/sabotage that under the same parameters that you have indicated? Because from what I understand you would basically have told that person to go away as your child doesn't need it (not sure I could ever pass up such a special opportunity for my kids personally).

 

[ruby59]

Big difference between them offering to do it and one of mine asking on stage and putting the President or first lady in a difficult spot. And how many of your average children would even have the advantage of being within talking distance of one of them.

 

[monarch64]

I would hire that young lady in a heartbeat. She asked for, and got exactly what she wanted. She is proactive, fearless, and very accomplished. I'd vote her into office as well. She knows how to get things done, and she does them, successfully.