Michelle's helps with college admission

[ruby59]

And what about the other outstanding young lady due to security could not get anywhere near the vicinity of the First Lady.

And if you had read about YaYa the opposite is true. She was actually having a very hard time maneuvering around the college applications and letters of recommendations. It was her frustration and opportunity that got her there.

 

[MJ_Mac]

Ruby - her name is Yara not YaYa as you keep wanting to call her. You certainly have your knickers in a twist over this don't you? Let it go already! All I see is a grown woman making disparaging comments about a 17 year old child.

 

[ruby59]

A response was made by me after someone else brought this topic back to the top.

And where were you when people were disparaging a 10 year old and a preschool child.

17 is an adult.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * And if you had read about YaYa the opposite is true. She was actually having a very hard time maneuvering around the college applications and letters of recommendations. It was her frustration and opportunity that got her there. [emphasis added]

Link to source, please.

 

[Arkteia]

OK, kids, not necessarily the smartest ones, get accepted into colleges and on scholarships for their athletic merits. How is that any better than accepting a young, talented, socially aware woman, yes, a celebrity and yes, with a letter from Michelle Obama? She worked hard, she has stellar school record, she had interesting ambitions. If schools accept average students who are good at baseball or water polo, why not accept someone who seems really interesting, smart and outstanding?

 

[ruby59]

See that is it. Did Yara get in on her talents or because of Mrs. Obama?

These so called average students who are good at sports - at least they hopefully did it under their own merit.

And that is the difference. Mrs. Obama should have never written it and the colleges should have never accepted it.

 

[jaaron]

So what's the solution? No letters of recommendation, period? Letters of recommendation from people whose names are unrecognisable to admissions committees only? College admission solely on the basis of numbers?

I think we all understand that college admissions are subjective. There's a baseline gpa and sat, act score at each institution, without which you are unlikely to get past the door. But beyond that, it's all subjective. Two kids with identical academic transcripts can be two very different candidates.

 

[MollyMalone]

Then I guess the difference between you and I is that I have seen it from the other side of students who have worked their tails off all their lives with impeccable grades and resume absolutely gutted because they were wait listed or turned down because the seat went to someone else with absolutely no explanation why.

• Good preparation for the job market, don't you think? Few job applicants are ever told why they weren't made an offer or even called in for an interview.
• More importantly, sounds to me as if the high school isn't doing its job. My son went to Stuyvesant High School (a public NYC school where admission is based on how you score on a ~4 hr entrance exam) with an acceptance rate of roughly 3-3.4% of those who apply -- a lower rate than Harvard's. The administration, faculty & college admissions counselors were blunt about the reality that no Ivy League school (or other "big name" schools in the Stuy community like MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech) was going to accept all that many Stuy seniors & that the competition for those schools is fierce owing to the number of applicants. E.g., take a look at this Duke Magazine article & you'll see that more than 2900 valedictorians sought to be in the entering class of 2012; Duke accepted less than 30% of them: http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/article/admission-impossible

• A few parents pulled their kids out of Stuy, in the hope that sending them to their neighborhood high school would improve the odds of their son or daughter gaining entree to an Ivy school or the like as they would be the bigger fish in a smaller pond so to speak. But the school staff (and most of us PTA officers) sought to expand the students', and their parents', focus and horizons...i.e., there are scores of colleges and universities in the USA (and elsewhere) where one can get a fine education, have the benefit of and enjoy 4 years that are meaningful in ways outside the classroom. Additionally, if the freshman year proves to not be a good fit, you can transfer; it's not an irrevocable decision. That one's worth in life is not determined by your college acceptances at age 16-18. And tried to move parents away from feeling that kids are extensions of themselves whereby you judge your success (and others') as a parent by that Ivy League admissions metric.

Bottom line as the Stuy staff (and I) saw it: it isn't healthy for any high school kid or parent to be "absolutely gutted" if the teen is not accepted by an Ivy League school or similarly hard-to-get-into college/university.

 

[MollyMalone]

Did Yara get in on her talents or because of Mrs. Obama?

Ye gods, Ruby. This young woman is a very bright light by any measure other than your dour, pinched perspective. Intelligent, articulate, poised but delightfully so; accomplished in many ways; a keen interest in the world around her & in being of service. Plus, she's at the Dwight School, where the curriculum is the more demanding International Baccalaureate program, so it's not as if she's getting a GED. Your belittling of her is wholly unjustified.

Mrs. Obama should have never written it and the colleges should have never accepted it.

Yeah, I'm now wishing Ms. Obama had not written the letter, so we could have been spared this thread.

 

[Arkteia]

I suddenly looked at it from a different angle. Mrs. Obama is the ex-First Lady, she is a common person now. (As such, she has the full right to write the recommendation letter, any letter). However, Obamas' prestige and popularity is so high, that maybe the admission committees were happy to do something for them. They respect and like this First Lady, like I do. These are our best colleges educating our thinking elite. It suddenly looked very hopeful to me.

 

[canuk-gal]

Ye gods, Ruby. This young woman is a very bright light by any measulishre other than your dour, pinched perspective. Intelligent, articulate, poised but delightfully so; accomped in many ways; a keen interest in the world around her & in being of service. Plus, she's at the Dwight School, where the curriculum is the more demanding International Baccalaureate program, so it's not as if she's getting a GED. Your belittling of her is wholly unjustified.

Yeah, I'm now wishing Ms. Obama had not written the letter, so we could have been spared this thread.

MM said it better than I could have.

Honestly Ruby, there is no sense and little sensibility in your assertions. This horse...well you know.

cheers--Sharon

 

[ruby59]

So what's the solution? No letters of recommendation, period? Letters of recommendation from people whose names are unrecognisable to admissions committees only? College admission solely on the basis of numbers?

I think we all understand that college admissions are subjective. There's a baseline gpa and sat, act score at each institution, without which you are unlikely to get past the door. But beyond that, it's all subjective. Two kids with identical academic transcripts can be two very different candidates.

Letters of recommendations from teachers and employers based on your values and not their name recognition.

 

[ruby59]

OK, kids, not necessarily the smartest ones, get accepted into colleges and on scholarships for their athletic merits. How is that any better than accepting a young, talented, socially aware woman, yes, a celebrity and yes, with a letter from Michelle Obama? She worked hard, she has stellar school record, she had interesting ambitions. If schools accept average students who are good at baseball or water polo, why not accept someone who seems really interesting, smart and outstanding?

It was revealed in March, but we do not know when Mrs. Obama actually wrote it. So she could have still been the First Lady.

 

[Tekate]

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/...o-write-your-college-recommendation-try-this/

She asked the First Lady on October 11 2016... If the actress was applying for early action she had to have her application in by November 1. If she were applying for general admisstion her app had to be in by 1/1/17... this timeframe is pretty close the when Mrs Obama would be leaving the White House.. I give the kid credit, she's a credit to young female actresses, she's been working since she was a young child and she is extremely bright. Wish her the best in life.

 

[Arkteia]

Letters of recommendations from teachers and employers based on your values and not their name recognition.

This makes little sense. Imagine a totally different situation. Supposedly, it is a senior who wants to get into molecular biology and he is volunteering at his local university molecular biology department. Can in happen? Yes, if the department has little grants and need spare hands. And at the end, the professor writes the volunteer a recommendation for colleges. The professor's name is very recognisable in his field. This would look.perfectly OK to me.

Now, if the senior was babysitting the professor's kids, a letter of professional recommendation would be not appropriate, but volunteering and internship are specially meant to get recommendations, or a future job.

 

[ruby59]

Yes, that is my point. This professor and that baby sitter are employers.

My daughter had an unpaid internship. When they were given a grant she was quickly hired. By the time she goes to graduate school she would have been working there a 40 hour week for 3 years.

That is a working relationship. Not when you have a bunch of volunteers for a cause that the First Lady happens to champion.

But more importantly how many of those lesser known volunteers would have loved to get a letter from the First Lady but will never be given the chance to ask.

 

[ruby59]

All I can add is do a search yourself. Read all the sites where it is acknowledged that this letter gave her a leg up

You will see terms like "co-sign of a lifetime"

"A substantial leg up"

"Yara will get her pick of colleges"

"Next level advantage"

Even Kimmel acknowledged

Kimmel asked the Black-ish star about the college application process on Monday night, though he joked, “How embarrassing is it gonna be if you don’t get in after you have a letter [from Obama]?”

And to acknowledge what I am saying. Mrs. Obama was not her employer:

Actress Yara Shahidi has that last criterion under control. The 17-year-old “Black-ish” star simply asked her friend and "supporter" Michelle Obama to write one for her.

Would she have gotten in without it, no one can answer that.

But she got into every college she applied to: How many accomplish that on their own?

 

[Arkteia]

Yes, that is my point. This professor and that baby sitter are employers.

My daughter had an unpaid internship. When they were given a grant she was quickly hired. By the time she goes to graduate school she would have been working there a 40 hour week for 3 years.

That is a working relationship. Not when you have a bunch of volunteers for a cause that the First Lady happens to champion.

But more importantly how many of those lesser known volunteers would have loved to get a letter from the First Lady but will never be given the chance to ask.

We don't know. I assume some did. I am reading a book about Clinton's election campaign, and one thing I understand is that among career politicians (all of whom live in own bubbles), loyalty is rewarded. Moreover, this is probably the most important thing for them - sometimes they end up with not the most suitable for the job people because they are loyal. So I assume the same holds true for people who worked for Michelle.
But the truth is, speculations don't work. I don't know a single person from Obamas' surroundings, so I can only say, that to me, this letter does not seem inappropriate.

 

[partgypsy]

Not everyone here is religious, but I am reminded of the 10th commandment, tho shall not covet. I was taught in Sunday school that jealousy and envy, are not good attributes.

 

[ruby59]

Not everyone here is religious, but I am reminded of the 10th commandment, tho shall not covet. I was taught in Sunday school that jealousy and envy, are not good attributes.

Jealous, envious, hardly?

More like the fact that there should be transparency in the selection process.

 

[siamese3]

Oh my goodness, this thread will not die. It's like that villain at the end of the movie that just keeps getting back up. FWTW, my take away in a nutshell is this: things that should happen often don't, things that shouldn't happen sometimes do. Life isn't black and white. People that follow the rules don't always win. Cheaters sometimes do prosper. Often, it is who you know. These are just facts. Life isn't always fair. Bad things happen to good people. And the list goes on. Life, dog gone it, just isn't perfect. Think I'll keep playing anyway.

 

[ksinger]

LOL @siamese3

Yep, 5 pages of being pissed off at the way human beings are. Five pages of a sullen tempest in a teacup.

So are you annoyed that Yara had the unmitigated nerve to ask. Annoyed that Michelle Obama chose to act on the request. Really annoyed that Obama is respected and influential and that her opinion might actually be taken into account. Annoyed AND disbelieving that the girl could have gotten into her choice of colleges on her own. Vaguely implying that Yara and her brazenly-asked-for letter, somehow stole a place from someone else more deserving. And finally, annoyed on behalf of the other poor little volunteers and worthies, who won't get the chance to ask the woman who should NOT be influential and respected, for a letter that should not be allowed to be written, let alone put in an college application.

Did I miss anything?

 

[siamese3]

LOL @siamese3

Yep, 5 pages of being pissed off at the way human beings are. Five pages of a sullen tempest in a teacup.

So are you annoyed that Yara had the unmitigated nerve to ask. Annoyed that Michelle Obama chose to act on the request. Really annoyed that Obama is respected and influential and that her opinion might actually be taken into account. Annoyed AND disbelieving that the girl could have gotten into her choice of colleges on her own. Vaguely implying that Yara and her brazenly-asked-for letter, somehow stole a place from someone else more deserving. And finally, annoyed on behalf of the other poor little volunteers and worthies, who won't get the chance to ask the woman who should NOT be influential and respected, for a letter that should not be allowed to be written, let alone put in an college application.

Did I miss anything?

Annoyed that colleges could be influenced by a letter of recommendation by the wrong person, asked for the wrong reason, at the wrong occasion.(just keeping it going)

 

[ruby59]

Oh my goodness, this thread will not die. It's like that villain at the end of the movie that just keeps getting back up. FWTW, my take away in a nutshell is this: things that should happen often don't, things that shouldn't happen sometimes do. Life isn't black and white. People that follow the rules don't always win. Cheaters sometimes do prosper. Often, it is who you know. These are just facts. Life isn't always fair. Bad things happen to good people. And the list goes on. Life, dog gone it, just isn't perfect. Think I'll keep playing anyway.

Then you go to a high school and explain to someone why they did everything right but it is not what you know but who you know.. Life is not fair. And then their friends tell them, I can made more money selling drugs so why kill yourself. Since life is not fair, take the easy way out.

And the fact that rules of etiquette were not followed is why I brought the subject up in the first place. And if people continue to post then why not?

Better than having a dead board which Hangout is close to being.

 

[ruby59]

LOL @siamese3

Yep, 5 pages of being pissed off at the way human beings are. Five pages of a sullen tempest in a teacup.

So are you annoyed that Yara had the unmitigated nerve to ask. Annoyed that Michelle Obama chose to act on the request. Really annoyed that Obama is respected and influential and that her opinion might actually be taken into account. Annoyed AND disbelieving that the girl could have gotten into her choice of colleges on her own. Vaguely implying that Yara and her brazenly-asked-for letter, somehow stole a place from someone else more deserving. And finally, annoyed on behalf of the other poor little volunteers and worthies, who won't get the chance to ask the woman who should NOT be influential and respected, for a letter that should not be allowed to be written, let alone put in an college application.

Did I miss anything?

No, your cold heart comes through loud and clear.

And if this does not bother you who are you to mock if it annoys someone else?

 

[ruby59]

5 pages and you feel a thread has run its course.

What about the 62 page Trump thread?

 

[siamese3]

5 pages and you feel a thread has run its course
What about the 62 page Trump thread?

Good morning, Ruby!! I think it might not be so exhaustive if he stopped tweeting and being so darn Trumpian all the time.

 

[ruby59]

Good morning, Ruby!! I think it might not be so exhaustive if he stopped tweeting and being so darn Trumpian all the time.

Yes, he made another dumb remark that no one has brought here yet.

I do agree the tweeting has got to go way down and that someone needs to make sure he has all his facts straight before he goes on air or social media.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Ksinger remember this guy?

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Are you just salty because someone you know, maybe your own kid, didn't get into a college of their choice? That's called life, it happens all of the time. I think most people are better off working on improving themselves to increase their odds than obsessing over why someone else got in.