Moissanite and Asha (manmade) diamond vs real diamonds

[WinkHPD]

Colored diamonds are pretty pricey but there are other stones that can be quite reasonable. White sapphire, for example, might be worth considering.

Just my opinion, but white sapphire looks like a diamond imitation only if you like poorly cut diamonds with no sparkle, and when you have worn them for more that ten minutes they look positively lifeless.

Perhaps I have led a charmed life, but I have never seen one that looked good to me.

Wink

 

[UberClaire]

If the two of you haven't seen moissanite in real life, I would do that before committing to it.

 

[teobdl]

She said she doesn't want a diamond now. Don't give her a diamond now. WF has a good return policy.

Wrt the mossy...

I'll be very blunt: I don't think man-made diamond imitations (or even man-made diamonds) should be used in e-rings, and I think it makes a mockery of the "tradition" of giving a natural diamond for an engagement. The only way I could be okay with someone giving an imitation as an e-ring is if they tell everyone who comments on it that it's a fake.

It's supposed to be a diamond engagement ring. Use the real thing.

Consider giving another type of precious gem from the earth, which can be very nice but not as crazily expensive as diamonds. Or maybe just give a claddagh ring. It's quite classic.

 

[madelise]

The trouble is, you're going for a LARGER than what you'd afford diamond in the moissanite. What I worry about and what I advise for those who buy fakes is to not buy any larger than you would in a diamond. You didn't give her an apples to apples choice. You offered her "Do you want smaller or bigger", essentially.

What's going to happen is, when you want to upgrade it finally to a real diamond, you're going to be faced with an even larger price jump because she's not going to want to get a diamond smaller than her original engagement ring moissanite.


I vote no. Get that 0.70 (?) diamond. I have huge fingers, and my 0.70 is one of my favorite rings to wear. Besides, if you're both in graduate school and are strapped for cash, wouldn't your social circle automatically know it isn't real?


Plus. PICTURES ON THE INTERNET MAKE MOISSY AND DIAMOND LOOK THE SAME. It does NOT look the same at all. Moissanite is beautiful, IMO, but it does not look like diamond. At all. It has a rainbow-y double refraction that is very very distinct to moissanite. People *will* know it's fake.

 

[madelise]

The Amora Gem will be a much better option for folks on a budget, but it is patent blocked in the U.S. until 2015.

Laila, I hope this doesn't cross Ella's warning about talking specifics (if so, Ella, I'm so sorry but I feel this is educational, not pushing of any products.. obviously... since I'm actually posting to NOT buy.. please remove if against policies):

But that is completely untrue. The Amora Gem is NOT a good option, AT ALL. The "other" side has banned all bad talk about the product, so all we see is a whole bunch of rainbows and unicorns about the product. I saw one in person recently and I was blown away by how disappointingly "toy" it looks. The facet free edges were not sharp, they were dull like an old CZ you've been banging around for a year, or like a plastic $5 ring you buy from Forever 21. I've seen fakey rings at Nordstrom for $25 that look better than it.

There is currently a listing on DB for an Amora, and its pictures prove exactly what I saw. Look at the edges of the facets. It's soft. It looks plastic-y. It is NOT a good diamond replacement.




OP: I tried looking on the internet for a proper picture or video to show you the weird rainbow-y stuff going on on moissanite but I can't find one.

 

[gktops]

I just had the gemologist at B2C Jewels pull a few diamonds to have looked at, he will be getting back to me tomorrow.

 

[Dreamer_D]

What did you expect her to say when you told her you spent $4500?

"Oh, I expected more."

"Oh yeah. Sounds about right."

The only response a woman can possibly give when her boyfriend tells her that he spend X dollars on a ring is exactly what your woman said:

"Wow! You are so generous and such a big spender, I am so impressed!" Which can be translated to, "Wow that's a lot, can you return it?" Your response to that should have been, "Oh baby, you are all worth it and more." Maybe she senses that you think you overspent? Honestly, all this tip toeing around the issue with her is going to poison the engagement moment. Now, if you porose anyways with this three stone she is going to be worrying that YOU think you spent too much and she won't be able to enjoy the ring.

Either return it or propose, stop teasing the poor woman.

 

[recordaras]

I'm sorry, but this is just no.
I understand buyer's remorse, and I totally get budgets, but this is something you should have thought of BEFORE the purchase. Now you're putting her in a situation where SHE has to justify you spending less (because that makes it okay and "not cheap"?..). I think that's unfair, and very, very wrong.

Seriously, Dreamer is right - what did you expect her to say to your "Hey honey, so I bought this gorgeous WF diamond ring for you because I felt it was totally worth spending $4500 on your ring but all of a sudden post-factum sticker shock caught up with me - do you think you could settle for a fake stone instead so I can save some money?"? Congratulations, you just made yourself feel a little better, but most likely made her feel absolutely terrible about the whole thing.

 

[arkieb1]

Give her the ring already, tell her it is an investment into your future together and if she says you spent too much on it then tell her you are going to be saving up more for everything else. I honestly thought at first it was a crazy thing to do but when I was young and at Uni I dated a guy who would have done exactly the same thing.

I am sure you wanted to impress her and now you are thinking about the reality of spending so much on just a ring but once again I agree it's kind of a moot point to back out now, you have it, it's beautiful, she is worth it, get over it.

 

[Ashleigh]

Since you have asked her about diamond vs moissanite, the surprise element is gone. Why not just talk to her and hand her a budget to get what she likes? Tell her what you learnt about cut hence the WF purchase, the reason you suggested moissy to begin with was to get a larger stone, and you are now looking at warmer stones so that you get larger stone without breaking the bank/getting same size diamond with smaller budget. Talk to her so that she needn't research diamonds from scratch and so that she can understand your thought processes. You mentioned somewhere about $1200 for moissy and $1000 for shopping spree. So I assume your comfortable budget is $2200. Hand her this budget to get the ering. For all you know, she might not like diamonds and moissanites at all and pick some other gems.

 

[Andelain]

That's a beautifil ring. I'd much rather have that, with those great stones, than any fake out there.

 

[ChristineRose]

The Amora Gem will be a much better option for folks on a budget, but it is patent blocked in the U.S. until 2015.

Laila, I hope this doesn't cross Ella's warning about talking specifics (if so, Ella, I'm so sorry but I feel this is educational, not pushing of any products.. obviously... since I'm actually posting to NOT buy.. please remove if against policies):

But that is completely untrue. The Amora Gem is NOT a good option, AT ALL. The "other" side has banned all bad talk about the product, so all we see is a whole bunch of rainbows and unicorns about the product. I saw one in person recently and I was blown away by how disappointingly "toy" it looks. The facet free edges were not sharp, they were dull like an old CZ you've been banging around for a year, or like a plastic $5 ring you buy from Forever 21. I've seen fakey rings at Nordstrom for $25 that look better than it.

There is currently a listing on DB for an Amora, and its pictures prove exactly what I saw. Look at the edges of the facets. It's soft. It looks plastic-y. It is NOT a good diamond replacement.




OP: I tried looking on the internet for a proper picture or video to show you the weird rainbow-y stuff going on on moissanite but I can't find one.

Here's a pic:




This originally came from Charles & Colvard and is reproduced on a bunch of pages. The original appears to have been removed and it was a little easier to see what was going on. They are shining an intense pinpoint light on a moissanite (left) and a diamond.

Silicon Carbide has a hexagonal crystal structure:



And diamond (and CZ for that matter) have a cubic crystal structure:



These images come from Wikipedia. The images only show two "levels," a floor and ceiling, but imagine a whole skyscraper of repeats. To cleave these stones you need to cut at an angle so that you only cross those lines, and don't run into any black dots (molecules). You can see you can't achieve exactly the same angles with the hexagonal lattice. That's why you see those little corner cuts.

For better or for worse, people who know what to look for will be able to tell if she is wearing a moissanite. The same is not really true of CZ. CZ are not identical to diamonds optically but factors like cut style and cut quality create a range that overlaps with the range available in a CZ--to tell them apart you have to evaluate the cut and the optics, which is pretty much impossible when the ring is on the finger. But CZ are not really lifetime stones. They chip much more than diamonds, they attract dirt, and the cheap ones turn white in a process analogous to rusting.

Personally I would start by rethinking the goals. Is this a symbol? Is this an attempt to impress her relatives and coworkers while saving money? Is this about having an attractive ring to wear but one that doesn't have to last forever? Is it a wearable engagement announcement? Is it a statement about your marriage (looks good, invests money, one of a kind, unique, colorful, classic, so classic it goes back to the 19th century, handmade, well-crafted)? A lot of people buy into the manufactured ideal of BIG WHITE SPARKLE STONE without really thinking through where it came from. When they can't afford the diamond they've been told they need, they think the next best thing is a sim. But really you don't need a sim either.

 

[Sparklelu]

I hope this does not come off rude.
I think YOU are balking at spending $4500. I think she feels that and is reacting to that. You sent out the vibe and she got it loud and clear. Others have said it better than I but I kinda feel like you bit off more than you can chew. I'm not rich, and yes 4500. is a lot if money, but its not $45,000.
You say you are a struggling student, are you financing this ring? If so YES return it and keep saving. I really don't think you guys are ready for the financial committments that come with engagement and what follows. And thats fine.

Also, I'm struck by the spending spree plus ring scenario, 'Im not sure I could find a person who would choose to spend 1000. on random stuff that will be tossed out eventually rather than put it towards a ring that will theoretically last forever. At least no PSer
Have you looked at the under $5,000 thread? I cannot link from here but MY ering was under $5,000 and I love it!!!

 

[Circe]

OP's getting a lot of great advice in this thread, but ChristineRose not only gives an excellent scientific overview (thanks from ME for that, as it was both concise and informative ... much better than other attempts I've seen on the net from the people who MAKE this stuff), but also asks exactly the right questions on the emotional and psychological levels.

I think the people guessing that she's following your cues, intentional or not, are probably quite right.

(Small example: I had a bday over the weekend and wanted to get a Cartier trinity to symbolize my family. I have bought exactly one other piece of jewelry retail in the years my husband's known me, so he initiated what he thought was an abstract conversation about how he thought I enjoyed the thrill of the hunt, getting a deal, etc. I thought he was indicating disapproval at the price tag and totally backed up until we'd cleared up the misunderstanding ... and I am by no means a retiring lady. You just never want a symbolic present tainted with any hint of reluctance, y'know?)

So in your case ... if the while thing is kind of an open secret, why not just shop TOGETHER? It's a process some of us quite enjoy - way more than being surprised, in fact - and it eliminates the potential for misunderstanding. If your honest budget is $2200, that's great! (I spent five years on a grad stipend, I feel your pain.) You could find an amazing vintage piece, sapphire or ruby, or huge eternity band to act as engagement ring. Or go with a sim, for that matter.

But don't either overspend, OR take a route you'll regret later. I love my old cut moissanites, but I also buy them in doubles or smaller for what I have and love having gemological geek outs comparing them to my diamonds if/when people ask. Not sure how I'd feel if I wasn't surrounded by so many fellow gem geeks.

P.S. - keep in mind the current patent ends in 2015.
There's a decent chance they're going to sink to the affordability of CZ.

 

[madelise]

Thank you for that science lesson, Christine Rose.

 

[Laila619]

Why is it so hard to believe some women think spending $4500 on a ring is crazy? There are a lot of things you could do with $4500. It's a little insulting and condescending to imply that OP's girlfriend is just going along with whatever her man says because she's too modest to accept a pricey ring. I'm sure she is a big girl and quite capable of thinking for herself and expressing what she wants and thinks. OP said they both do not have a lot of money right now, so a $4500 ring probably isn't the smartest idea. Pricescope is not the real world. YMMV.

 

[loriken214]

Getting engaged should not be this stressful! We got engaged without a ring and then found one together....much easier!

Lori

 

[kellc]

I think the 3-stone ring you got is gorgeous and doesn't look small at all. It also looks really sparkly, which, in my opinion, is preferable to a larger size that is duller.

Now that she knows about the ring you have, as well as the option of getting a simulant, I 100% think you should go look at rings together. If you have any good jewelers near you, visit them. If not, you can check a mall store just to get an idea of carat weight, settings, etc. Definitely check out antique stores, because an OEC could be a great option. You can also look at other gemstones at all these places, like a sapphire.

You can have her narrow it down to a few choices, and then you still get to make the final choice and have an element of surprise.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Why is it so hard to believe some women think spending $4500 on a ring is crazy? There are a lot of things you could do with $4500. It's a little insulting and condescending to imply that OP's girlfriend is just going along with whatever her man says because she's too modest to accept a pricey ring. I'm sure she is a big girl and quite capable of thinking for herself and expressing what she wants and thinks. OP said they both do not have a lot of money right now, so a $4500 ring probably isn't the smartest idea. Pricescope is not the real world. YMMV.

She may think that. In which case he should ASK her and involve her in the process! Dropping hints and then trying to read her reactions and intuit she is being honest in her response to his hints... well its all just too much supposition for me.

For what its worth, my e-ring when I was in graduate school cost $1200.

I fully respect people spending what they can afford, and I don't think people should spend more than they can afford. But the OP needs to either involve his GF without any round-about hinting, or he should just make a decision on his own.

PS: I think women in the pre-engagement phase are not always honest and straight up with their intendeds concerning what they want and prefer -- especially because it can seem greedy to admit ones desires or it can seem bossy to tell your partner what he should spend. My point is not to insult his GFs autonomy by suggesting that she may not have meant it when she said $4500 was too much. Maybe she meant that, maybe she was uncertain.Who knows? The OP did not ask directly enough to be sure.

PPS: I would have murdered my husband if he had put $4500 on credit to buy me a ring when we were getting engaged

 

[WinkHPD]

Why is it so hard to believe some women think spending $4500 on a ring is crazy? There are a lot of things you could do with $4500. It's a little insulting and condescending to imply that OP's girlfriend is just going along with whatever her man says because she's too modest to accept a pricey ring. I'm sure she is a big girl and quite capable of thinking for herself and expressing what she wants and thinks. OP said they both do not have a lot of money right now, so a $4500 ring probably isn't the smartest idea. Pricescope is not the real world. YMMV.

She may think that. In which case he should ASK her and involve her in the process! Dropping hints and then trying to read her reactions and intuit she is being honest in her response to his hints... well its all just too much supposition for me.

For what its worth, my e-ring when I was in graduate school cost $1200.

I fully respect people spending what they can afford, and I don't think people should spend more than they can afford. But the OP needs to either involve his GF without any round-about hinting, or he should just make a decision on his own.

PS: I think women in the pre-engagement phase are not always honest and straight up with their intendeds concerning what they want and prefer -- especially because it can seem greedy to admit ones desires or it can seem bossy to tell your partner what he should spend. My point is not to insult his GFs autonomy by suggesting that she may not have meant it when she said $4500 was too much. Maybe she meant that, maybe she was uncertain.Who knows? The OP did not ask directly enough to be sure.

Dreamer, I agree with you in so many ways! The e ring I bought for my wife cost me $300 which was a whole month's pay for me at that time. Hard to believe how far you could stretch $300 back in the early 70's. Gold was $35 per ounce officially, but it actually traded outside the states for about $70, at least in Rio de Janeiro where I was stationed at the time.

Wink

 

[Andelain]

P.S. - keep in mind the current patent ends in 2015.
There's a decent chance they're going to sink to the affordability of CZ.

That's something I didn't know. Just an FYI, there's already counteriet moissy's around. I see them here in Afghanistan being passed off as diamonds by the Hajji vendors here.

 

[isaku5]

If I did go that moissanite route, it would be a believable ring.

Huh?
You mean a more-believeable lie.

Men chose real natural diamond when proposing so the gal won't say no … or divorce them later when they find out the deception.

If you and your gal discuss it and decide on a lump of coal for the e-ring that's fine.
Deception is not.

Perfectly stated, Kenny.


The problem I have with waiting until you're more 'financially secure' to buy a larger diamond is that something else is needed more urgently than a larger diamond. If you both agree that the tiny perfect stone is great forever, then that's wonderful, but you almost have to put it in writing because one of you will change her mind.

 

[Ashleigh]

Hi Ella, I'm just trying to learn but please delete this if I'm breaking a rule.

Madelise, you mentioned softer edge around the facet. Is it possible for you to circle it as I'm trying to learn to differentiate diamond from moissanite.

Christine rose, thanks for the explanation but I need more clarification. You mentioned little corner cuts. Where are they? Are they on Madelise's images or on your images?

 

[Mico]

Hi OP
We also debated buying an amazing ring with something other than a diamond in it. the option was to spend a lot on a setting with less on the diamond, or the other way around. In the end, I'm pretty sentimental and we went the diamond route with a simple (and might i say, timeless setting. I don't really plan on upgrading later in life, and if i did I anticipate getting some sort of wrap for my ring - which would mimick the three stone you've just purchase.

If she isn't sentimental, and doesn't care about it regardless, go with what you want best.
If she is, whatever you give her will be amazing. I learned that in hindsight while looking at my beautiful ring he worked so hard to get me.

I'm sure she will love it either way.

and for the record, I love the three stone you picked . Don't give yourself another headache, just do what you were planning with what you have.

 

[Andelain]

Nevermind....

 

[AprilBaby]

I seriously can't believe you would send back the ACA for a moissanite. Maybe you can't afford to get married right now. Save up and come back in a year.

 

[braga123]

Why is it so hard to believe some women think spending $4500 on a ring is crazy? There are a lot of things you could do with $4500. It's a little insulting and condescending to imply that OP's girlfriend is just going along with whatever her man says because she's too modest to accept a pricey ring. I'm sure she is a big girl and quite capable of thinking for herself and expressing what she wants and thinks. OP said they both do not have a lot of money right now, so a $4500 ring probably isn't the smartest idea. Pricescope is not the real world. YMMV.

I agree that you are right to pose this question. That said, OP does not respond to all the great suggestions. He asks questions and when we reply, he doesn't acknowledge. For example, I have suggested estate (I think others have, too) and OEC's also but he does not address those suggestions. Also, we have answered his fear that a .77 is NOT a small stone as a solitaire, but again, he doesn't acknowledge our opinions and seems to be on downward spiral to spending 2200 dollars. At least, that is my opinion, which he will probably continue to ignore.

 

[loriken214]

How about forgetting the ER and get a beautiful wedding ring instead? IMHO, I think it would hold much more sentimental value and would cause much less stress for you since you are freaking out over the cost of the ring and you already have a ring in hand!

Diamond vs. fake vs. cost vs. size vs. upgrade.....too confusing...your girlfriend must be as confused as we are! Since she doesn't know much about diamonds and/or fakes, it isn't really fair to tell her to Google the difference and then tell her how much you paid for the ring in hand....what did you expect her to say? She was blindsided and I feel horrible for her!

This is just one of many money decisions you will have to make in the future and I'm worried for the two of you! I feel sorry for your girlfriend and I hope she isn't feeling guilty about her "maybe" ring.

Why the big rush to give her a ring....can't you wait and save up for the ring that she would fall in love with? SHE is the one who will be wearing it the rest of her life and she should be happy with it. Upgrades aren't for everyone!

Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way I see it.

Lori

 

[teobdl]

How about forgetting the ER and get a beautiful wedding ring instead? IMHO, I think it would hold much more sentimental value and would cause much less stress for you since you are freaking out over the cost of the ring and you already have a ring in hand!

Great idea!!! Wedding ring is worn everyday.
Love this one: http://www.whiteflash.com/wedding-bands/divisi-diamond-wedding-band-606.htm

 

[madelise]

Hi Ella, I'm just trying to learn but please delete this if I'm breaking a rule.

Madelise, you mentioned softer edge around the facet. Is it possible for you to circle it as I'm trying to learn to differentiate diamond from moissanite.

Christine rose, thanks for the explanation but I need more clarification. You mentioned little corner cuts. Where are they? Are they on Madelise's images or on your images?

I tried to zoom in so you can see the free edges better. Well, cropped it so PS doesn't resize it. Sorry. It's every single corner on the diamond vs. the sim. In fact, it's so blurry on the Amora Gem that it shows through from underneath the table, too. That's why it looks like plastic.

Diamond, nice blunt and crisp lines:


Amora Gem, blurry and mushy lines that look like plastic:


You can see how the edges look like it's a thicker white outline? It's because it's not a blunt edge. It's showing the reflection of the thicker, rounded edge.




****** Some people are getting rather.. angry.. in this thread. Let's not cause drama so that Ella has to shut this down? I'd like this thread to stay open for the educational content. I think this is a very important topic that not only OP needs to read, but many others. There are LOADS of people on the internet that think sims look exactly the same as diamond, and are more "worth it" since there's no visual difference.