More senseless killing in Paris

[aljdewey]

So, if what just happened in Paris happens in the US in the next 6 to 12 months, then what?

It already did. Terrorists crashed our own planes into buildings, killing nearly 3,000 civilians.

The US is largely to blame for removing Saddam and leaving an army ill equipped to deal with Isis

Of course it is......we're to blame for everything. If we'd stood by idly and let atrocities happen without intervention, we'd be unhelpful and heartless, and when we do step in, we didn't do enough.

Wait a minute, though.......not so fast. There were actually four countries involved in the initial invasion to depose Hussein. U.S., U.K, Poland, and..................Australia. So, I guess you're to blame, too. Welcome to the world of "no good deed unpunished".

Further, there were 36 other countries involved in the aftermath post-invasion. For those playing along at home, that aftermath involvement period is when the collective team would help better equip the remaining army to ward off predators such as ISIS.

Loudly blaming the head chef does not absolve all the kitchen participants from their collective wins or losses.

 

[Jambalaya]

Vigilantes attacking innocent people like this for wearing a headscarf or whatever are absolutely sickening...and it means that the terrorists are having the desired psychological effect. They want us to fight among ourselves, they want us to become less and less tolerant, they want us to live in fear and suspicion of each other. They want to send us back to the Dark Ages when everyone was suspicious of anyone who was different from them and when societies were wholly homogeneous. The best way to fight the psychological effects of terrorism is to practice tolerance, remembering that the terrorists would love it if they could make everyone as intolerant of difference as they are.

 

[chemgirl]

Yesterday a local woman was attacked while picking her children up from school. The attackers grabbed her by her head scarf, punched her in the face and stomach, and told her to "go back to your own country."

How horrible!
This makes me sick!

Unfortunately this is the kind of story with legs.
It'll be picked up and used to paint all Americans as bigots.

I really hope the percentage of Americans who are acting-out-violent bigots is tiny like the percentage of Muslims who are terrorists.

Exactly. Just as it is a tiny percentage of refugees we have to worry about the same goes for atrocious behavior like this. Most Americans do not act or feel this this way.

Exactly, most Americans don't feel this way. I think my issue in this thread is the feeling I'm getting that the refugees are others and potentially dangerous. Then there is talk of home grown terrorists. We're casting a net of suspicion over a very large group.

It's not just PS obviously, media does the same, it's probably conversation in every work break room, politicians are all over it etc.

Then you have people who already hold prejudices feeling validated by these talks. To them, their anger is righteous and they need to protect their way of life. It's a kind of eerie parallel.

I just feel we need to be really careful right now.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Pricescope is absolutely skewed one direction, politically speaking. Posters who share opinions which are counter to the majority here are definitely treated differently than those whose opinions are aligned with the majority. There are some who seem to feel it is their duty as some sort of self-appointed Pricescope police to relentlessly pick at anyone who dare express an opinion which opposes their own, obviously superior opinion.

The majority of posters on Pricescope are not liberals. You must have been listening to Dancing Fire. From what I read here, many people are scared of Bernie Sanders, for Pete's sake. This is not exactly the Communist Party Headquarters. It is terrible, though, how some of us who post our left -of-center opinions dare to challenge the conservatives. It should be called "badgering". Oh, wait! It's also called, "freedom of speech"! Even we left-wingers are still allowed to talk!

73% ... TBH, I think most conservative PSers are too afraid to speak up. I think the last count was (7 PSer) whom claim to be a conservative...

 

[kenny]

Yesterday a local woman was attacked while picking her children up from school. The attackers grabbed her by her head scarf, punched her in the face and stomach, and told her to "go back to your own country."

How horrible!
This makes me sick!

Unfortunately this is the kind of story with legs.
It'll be picked up and used to paint all Americans as bigots.

I really hope the percentage of Americans who are acting-out-violent bigots is tiny like the percentage of Muslims who are terrorists.

Nothing to worry about because the attack happened in Canada! Yey?

...

Sorry.
I can't remember everything that everyone has ever posted.

There is only one poster who does not need to remind me in her posts where she is, "San Diego Lady".

Of course, hate crimes happen in America too.

 

[AGBF]

I think most conservative PSers are too afraid to speak up. I think the last count was (7 PSer) whom claim to be a conservative...

Thank goodness there's no chance you will ever shut up.

Your friend, Deb (AGBF)

 

[chemgirl]

Yesterday a local woman was attacked while picking her children up from school. The attackers grabbed her by her head scarf, punched her in the face and stomach, and told her to "go back to your own country."

How horrible!
This makes me sick!

Unfortunately this is the kind of story with legs.
It'll be picked up and used to paint all Americans as bigots.

I really hope the percentage of Americans who are acting-out-violent bigots is tiny like the percentage of Muslims who are terrorists.

Nothing to worry about because the attack happened in Canada! Yey?

...

Sorry.
I can't remember everything that everyone has ever posted.

There is only one poster who does not need to remind me in her posts where she is, "San Diego Lady".

Of course, hate crimes happen in America too.

No problem. I have no idea where you're from.

And yeah, hate crimes happen everywhere. It does seem that those in the US get a lot more coverage though.

 

[AGBF]

No problem. I have no idea where you're from.

I remember almost nothing that happens in my daily life, but I still remember a lot of history. I also remembered (for some reason) that chemgirl came from-or at least currently lives in-Canada. kenny lives in California.

Deb/AGBF

 

[chrono]

I expect to see an increase in racial discrimination and racial profiling. Those who are closed-minded will be quick to judge and become paranoid, treating the innocent unfairly. The terrorists will achieved their part of their goal when peace is disrupted and there is civil discontent or disharmony.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'm noticing that some people are using the words immigrant and refugee interchangeably. An immigrant comes into this country under a quota system for that particular country. A refugee is a different animal. It has its own laws that govern entry into this country and they hold a special status. We do support the refugees with food, clothing, shelter and help them get started. Immigrants are either sponsored by relatives or they come on their own without help.

I'll throw this comment out there. If we didn't have , first 3 million illegal aliens, who were given amnesty, and added 11 million to that number, we might have room for more people who were in desperate need. I know its not the topic, but what frosts me about this is the demands of those illegals. I love what Missy said. Its a privilege to live here. You don't get to make demands.

As far as one half of the Governors denying refugees entry into their state, they can't do it. Federal law and action supersede the states in this matter. We also don't have state borders, as such.

Now, I'm asking where is all this bigotry some people are talking about? They are so sad. And to think I was so glad there was only one blip or two that I saw. This has been a very civilized discussion, albeit with different opinions. Safety is a concern. So we aren't able to mention the countries people are from ?I don't see it or get it.

Annette

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think most conservative PSers are too afraid to speak up. I think the last count was (7 PSer) whom claim to be a conservative...

Thank goodness there's no chance you will ever shut up.

Your friend, Deb (AGBF)

I finally agree with Feinstein. Feinstein whom have been one of the President's biggest supporter finally woke up to reality unlike our President whom is still living in a fantasy world.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/dianne-feinstein-obama-isil-215935

 

[telephone89]

Charlie Hebdo Tomorrow

 

[purplesparklies]

Vigilantes attacking random people or places of worship are no better than the terrorists committing acts anywhere else or against anyone else. It is horrible and inexcusable.

If there were some real and effective vetting system that could be utilized, things situation would be vastly different. Unfortunately, it is impossible to vet someone who has no valid and verifiable identification. Even if there is some form of identification, there is no database that can be referenced to find out if the individual is on some kind of worldwide naughty or nice list. The concern is not about the danger from the true refugees. The concern is about the fulfillment of the threat that ISIS has infiltrated the group and has planted trained terrorists who are posing as refugees. This is entirely possible and is actually quite likely. How do we know who are the refugees and who are the terrorists? Unfortunately, there is no way to know.

 

[arkieb1]

So, if what just happened in Paris happens in the US in the next 6 to 12 months, then what?

It already did. Terrorists crashed our own planes into buildings, killing nearly 3,000 civilians.

The US is largely to blame for removing Saddam and leaving an army ill equipped to deal with Isis

Of course it is......we're to blame for everything. If we'd stood by idly and let atrocities happen without intervention, we'd be unhelpful and heartless, and when we do step in, we didn't do enough.

Wait a minute, though.......not so fast. There were actually four countries involved in the initial invasion to depose Hussein. U.S., U.K, Poland, and..................Australia. So, I guess you're to blame, too. Welcome to the world of "no good deed unpunished".

Further, there were 36 other countries involved in the aftermath post-invasion. For those playing along at home, that aftermath involvement period is when the collective team would help better equip the remaining army to ward off predators such as ISIS.

Loudly blaming the head chef does not absolve all the kitchen participants from their collective wins or losses.

If you read ALL of my posts I clearly say "we" of the Western world are to blame for much of the situation and it's sad to me that in times like this we turn against each other. "We" should all be doing more to end the war in Syria, "we" should all be doing more to help millions of refugees. Having politicians that have largely ignored the refugee crisis across the globe in most countries in the Western world until they were forced to deal with the situation is totally unacceptable, people fled the camps and started pouring into Europe because "we" collectively were not doing enough to help them, their food, water and basic supplies were running low and the people in those camps were afraid it would run out. I post this for everyone to watch again;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmKpm_9BtHc

 

[Mayk]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/what-happened-immediately-after-this-us-city-accepted-a-few-syrian-refugees-has-many-furious/

This will happen more.

 

[chemgirl]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/what-happened-immediately-after-this-us-city-accepted-a-few-syrian-refugees-has-many-furious/

This will happen more.

Just a question, not trying to start an argument.

I have no idea how the refugee system usually works. Are states notified when am organization brings in refugees? Do they have to agree to check in with an organization and remain in the state for a certain amount of time?

My main question being is this how bringing over refugees usually works?

 

[telephone89]

He was already found, no need to propagate fear

Though that does sound like a pretty sh$%ty charity. I don't see why they wouldn't keep track? Bizarre

 

[purplesparklies]

He was already found, no need to propagate fear

Though that does sound like a pretty sh$%ty charity. I don't see why they wouldn't keep track? Bizarre

Yeah, Catholic Charities really dropped the ball. {sarcasm} ummmm.....Catholic Charities agrees to help refugees with places to stay and food and they are the problem?!? Good grief. They are not typically responsible for tracking refugees. They provide assistance but they are a group of lay people, largely volunteers. How do you propose that they track people? How does a refugee who has nothing and has no one on whom they can depend just up and travel out of state? How is a charity supposed to be able to prevent that exactly?

 

[purplesparklies]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/what-happened-immediately-after-this-us-city-accepted-a-few-syrian-refugees-has-many-furious/

This will happen more.

Just a question, not trying to start an argument.

I have no idea how the refugee system usually works. Are states notified when am organization brings in refugees? Do they have to agree to check in with an organization and remain in the state for a certain amount of time?

My main question being is this how bringing over refugees usually works?

That is an excellent question. According to news reports regarding the refugees placed in LA, neither the governor nor the Director of the Governor's office of Homeland Security & Emergency Management were notified. Catholic Charities has agreed to help in many states but they are not at all equipped to do any kind of tracking. They simply provide a place to stay and food and other services to help people find stability as they start their lives here.

 

[purplesparklies]

I did read that the missing refugee was located. I am curious as to how a refugee with no resources makes his way from LA, where he is being provided for, to Washington D.C. within a couple days of being dropped in LA. And why?

 

[telephone89]

So a few things things, and then I'll probably be out of this thread. It's just getting to me too much.

I thought this article was about them not tracking them coming in - obviously they would have to do that. I'm going to assume they check in either before they leave or when they arrive with this charity. If they didnt do this, then yes, absolutely they dropped the ball.
As far as tracking them once they get here, you're right, how are they supposed to do that? What, are they not allowed to leave the state? Go exploring, sight seeing, etc? Look for a job in another town? Not leave their home? Where do you want to draw the line. Maybe a gps chip? Some sort of tattoo with identifying numbers? That leads me to my next point...

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

My last point - I assume most of the folk on here who are against this/these people/this religion/whatever are NOT the type to go punch a woman in her face and tell her to go back to her country. I do believe however, that they are the type who will protest against refugees coming to their city or neighborhood. Cross the street when they see one approach. Tell little johnny that they'd really rather he not hang out with little muhammed or go to his house. They are the type of people who will not befriend these souls, and learn about their culture. They will not hear the stories of how happy they are to be here, and how grateful that 'the all mighty america' took them in. No, they will be the ones who continue to breed fear. In themselves, in their neighbors, in their coworkers, in their children. And that is almost worse to me.

Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence.
Education breeds confidence. Confidence breeds hope. Hope breeds peace

 

[katharath]

So a few things things, and then I'll probably be out of this thread. It's just getting to me too much.

I thought this article was about them not tracking them coming in - obviously they would have to do that. I'm going to assume they check in either before they leave or when they arrive with this charity. If they didnt do this, then yes, absolutely they dropped the ball.
As far as tracking them once they get here, you're right, how are they supposed to do that? What, are they not allowed to leave the state? Go exploring, sight seeing, etc? Look for a job in another town? Not leave their home? Where do you want to draw the line. Maybe a gps chip? Some sort of tattoo with identifying numbers? That leads me to my next point...

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

My last point - I assume most of the folk on here who are against this/these people/this religion/whatever are NOT the type to go punch a woman in her face and tell her to go back to her country. I do believe however, that they are the type who will protest against refugees coming to their city or neighborhood. Cross the street when they see one approach. Tell little johnny that they'd really rather he not hang out with little muhammed or go to his house. They are the type of people who will not befriend these souls, and learn about their culture. They will not hear the stories of how happy they are to be here, and how grateful that 'the all mighty america' took them in. No, they will be the ones who continue to breed fear. In themselves, in their neighbors, in their coworkers, in their children. And that is almost worse to me.

Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence.
Education breeds confidence. Confidence breeds hope. Hope breeds peace

Thank you for posting this - several excellently made points. I'm also with you about being done with this thread (so I understand that you may not see my post, not that it's terribly important).

 

[purplesparklies]

I hope you feel better having unloaded your assumptions. I don't have the answers. As far as I can tell, no one does. All I have are questions and I think it is reasonable to expect my government to be able to answer these questions. I don't have blind faith that anyone is checking anything. I continue to ask the questions because no one has answered them. I am trying to educate myself as to the processes so that I can feel confident, hopeful and peaceful.

Obviously, people are going to travel. My question is from a standpoint of someone who needs assistance. Been there. Didn't leave a place where I had someone helping me with local resources to go to a place where I had none. Firstly, because I needed the help where I could get it. Secondly, because it costs money to go places and I had no money for basics much less for travel. I just find that curious.

Asking questions and wishing my government officials would proceed with caution equals ignorance, fear, hate and violence? That is an awful lot of assuming. Any position taken to the extreme becomes ridiculous as you have clearly demonstrated. By all means, if it makes you feel better, assume away.

 

[AGBF]

So a few things things, and then I'll probably be out of this thread. It's just getting to me too much.

I thought this article was about them not tracking them coming in - obviously they would have to do that. I'm going to assume they check in either before they leave or when they arrive with this charity. If they didnt do this, then yes, absolutely they dropped the ball.
As far as tracking them once they get here, you're right, how are they supposed to do that? What, are they not allowed to leave the state? Go exploring, sight seeing, etc? Look for a job in another town? Not leave their home? Where do you want to draw the line. Maybe a gps chip? Some sort of tattoo with identifying numbers? That leads me to my next point...

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

My last point - I assume most of the folk on here who are against this/these people/this religion/whatever are NOT the type to go punch a woman in her face and tell her to go back to her country. I do believe however, that they are the type who will protest against refugees coming to their city or neighborhood. Cross the street when they see one approach. Tell little johnny that they'd really rather he not hang out with little muhammed or go to his house. They are the type of people who will not befriend these souls, and learn about their culture. They will not hear the stories of how happy they are to be here, and how grateful that 'the all mighty america' took them in. No, they will be the ones who continue to breed fear. In themselves, in their neighbors, in their coworkers, in their children. And that is almost worse to me.

Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence.
Education breeds confidence. Confidence breeds hope. Hope breeds peace

I hope you do not leave this thread, telephone. I was not going to leave the thread, but I was going to keep my mouth shut until I read what you posted. You put it so eloquently. You reminded me of the internment camps that the United States set up for United States citizens of Japanese heritage during World War II when you described those little villages that could be built to contain the Syrian refugees we "rescued" safely.

My first thought when I read all this brouhaha about the "escaped" refugee was, "I didn't know he was in jail!".

I thought that the idea was to screen certain people and then to give them legal status here as immigrants because they were fleeing persecution.

The United States can grant Temporary Prrotected Status to foreign nationals under The Immigration and Nationality Act. The executive branch can grant it on humanitarian grounds.

"TPS can be granted by the secretaries of State and Homeland Security if there is an ongoing armed conflict posing a serious threat to the personal safety of returned nationals, if a foreign state requests TPS because it is unable to handle the return of nationals due to environmental disaster, or if there are other extraordinary conditions preventing the safe return of foreign nationals.

TPS does not make an individual eligible for permanent residence or citizenship, and TPS beneficiaries must request work authorization from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)."

Many immigrants from Guatemala and El Salvador came here under TPS. They were not tracked any more than any other immigrants once they were accepted into the country. They did not, however, automatically receive "green cards".

Deb/AGBF

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

They could live here till they can be identified.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Alcatraz_Island_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatraz_Island&h=1940&w=3792&tbnid=HoGYlBLxZoPzZM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=314&usg=__T4kbuNWNx9TDdALtl2QwmuVQCcM=&docid=2BXrsdbdTa-p1M&itg=1

 

[AGBF]

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

They could live here till they can be identified.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Alcatraz_Island_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatraz_Island&h=1940&w=3792&tbnid=HoGYlBLxZoPzZM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=314&usg=__T4kbuNWNx9TDdALtl2QwmuVQCcM=&docid=2BXrsdbdTa-p1M&itg=1

Ah, yes. An isolated prison where they could be kept until they are "identified". (As what?) That could take....maybe...forever. It reminds me a bit of Guantanamo. Indefinite imprisonment. A great and good plan.

 

[momhappy]

So a few things things, and then I'll probably be out of this thread. It's just getting to me too much.

I thought this article was about them not tracking them coming in - obviously they would have to do that. I'm going to assume they check in either before they leave or when they arrive with this charity. If they didnt do this, then yes, absolutely they dropped the ball.
As far as tracking them once they get here, you're right, how are they supposed to do that? What, are they not allowed to leave the state? Go exploring, sight seeing, etc? Look for a job in another town? Not leave their home? Where do you want to draw the line. Maybe a gps chip? Some sort of tattoo with identifying numbers? That leads me to my next point...

I think I have the answer - set up little towns. Just for them. Guard them with security, you know, for their protection. They'll have food and shelter, and they shouldn't need to leave - it's a privilege to live here right? Anyways, someone else suggested mandatory conscription which is nice, but you could also just have them digging ditches. Building roads, fences, etc, whatever the state needs. No need to pay em since it's such a privilege to live here. Get one of the above tracking methods in case they escape, and you should be golden.

My last point - I assume most of the folk on here who are against this/these people/this religion/whatever are NOT the type to go punch a woman in her face and tell her to go back to her country. I do believe however, that they are the type who will protest against refugees coming to their city or neighborhood. Cross the street when they see one approach. Tell little johnny that they'd really rather he not hang out with little muhammed or go to his house. They are the type of people who will not befriend these souls, and learn about their culture. They will not hear the stories of how happy they are to be here, and how grateful that 'the all mighty america' took them in. No, they will be the ones who continue to breed fear. In themselves, in their neighbors, in their coworkers, in their children. And that is almost worse to me.

Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence.
Education breeds confidence. Confidence breeds hope. Hope breeds peace

Interesting assumptions, but no... I suppose that you could say that I'm "against" bringing in additional refugees (although, I think this issue is more complex than "for or against"), but no, I wouldn't protest, I wouldn't cross the street and tell my Little Johnny that he shouldn't hang out with Muhammed, breed fear, etc. In fact, I won't do a darn thing. I have said my piece about how I feel and that's that - just like everyone else here. My hope, however, is that every possible precaution is taken when processing refugees as they are accepted into our country.
Some harsh assumptions have been made here about those simply expressing their concerns & opinions associated with Syrian refugees on the heels of a bloody attack in Paris that appears to have been carried out (in part) by an individual posing as a Syrian refugee. I don't consider that being ignorant and it's sad that it's been labeled as such.

 

[Matata]

https://niskanencenter.org/blog/six-reasons-to-welcome-syrian-refugees-after-paris/

 

[monarch64]

N/m. I didn't read something in its entirety before responding and I had it wrong.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|

Ah, yes. An isolated prison where they could be kept until they are "identified". (As what?) That could take....maybe...forever. It reminds me a bit of Guantanamo. Indefinite imprisonment. A great and good plan.[/quote]



As not a member of ISIS?
Deb...I knew that soon or later you'll agree with my plan...