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More whining and excuses from sore loser HRC.

What would those impeachable offenses be? Please don't reply with rumors.
 
I don't blame HRC for her husband conduct, but then neither did she. Whenever a woman came forward she called them names and blamed then instead of squarely putting the blame where it needed to be. She called them bimbo's and liars and reigned hell down on a 22 year old intern who had the poor judgement to get involved with a powerful lying man. While her choices were clearly wrong- she was 22! The blame should have rested with Bill.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't like Trump or HRC and I didn't like Obama or many things he did. I don't like that he is still putting his two cents into politics. I also find it really disturbing that in this country there cannot be a difference of opinion without labeling the other side stupid or ignorant. The name calling is so childish and arrogant and ugly. This country has survived other presidents and will surely survive this one. Both sides have ugly names and attitudes about the other side. Democracy was made for better than this. We can no longer agree to disagree.
 
Proof?
 
AnnaH said:
Sure liberals want to end our electoral system so that the coasts can rule the entire country.
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True, but if we get rid of the electoral system every vote will count. One of the reasons I don't vote more often is b/c I live in Ca.
 
Dancing Fire said:
True, but if we get rid of the electoral system every vote will count. One of the reasons I don't vote more often is b/c I live in Ca.
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That's exactly why I think we should get rid of it, DF. I think its BS that if you live in a state that's "blue" like CA or "red" like AL then your vote essentially doesnt count. I think it makes people disengage with the process entirely. That's why I think that 1 vote should = 1 vote and all should count equally.


EDIT: I mean if you live in those states but don't vote that way then your vote essentially doesnt count.
 
Without the electoral college, votes in most states won't count.
 
It isn't even the individual states that would decide elections in a popular vote, its the largest cities that would make the choice for all of us. That is hardly a fair voice for all.

Edit - Anna you and I were posting at the same time. We are on the same page.
 
AnnaH said:
Without the electoral college, votes in most states won't count.
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Yeah, but every vote will count, and it'll inspire more citizen to vote.
If we changed to a single vote system we may never see another Rep. Prez in office...:lol:
 
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AnnaH said:
Proof?
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Back in January, Trump, through his lawyer, claimed the Trump hotels have a plan to keep track of earnings from foreign government and that all profits will be donated to the US Treasury to keep clear of the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution which prohibits the President from earning money from foreign governments. (The press asked for a copy of said plan, but were denied.). On March 24 Trump's hotels informed the House Oversight Committee that they won't keep track of all foreign govts use of the hotels and that they won't donate all profits.

So Trump is definitely making money from foreign governments because he still owns his hotels, and that is technically a violation of the Emoluments clause.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Yeah, but every vote will count, and it'll inspire more citizen to vote.
If we changed to a single vote system we may never see another Rep. Prez in office...:lol:
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BINGO. And the reason for the call to get rid of it.
 
t-c said:
Back in January, Trump, through his lawyer, claimed the Trump hotels have a plan to keep track of earnings from foreign government and that all profits will be donated to the US Treasury to keep clear of the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution which prohibits the President from earning money from foreign governments. (The press asked for a copy of said plan, but were denied.). On March 24 Trump's hotels informed the House Oversight Committee that they won't keep track of all foreign govts use of the hotels and that they won't donate all profits.

So Trump is definitely making money from foreign governments because he still owns his hotels, and that is technically a violation of the Emoluments clause.
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Had not heard this, tc, and I don't just follow conservative news. Where was that reported?
I don't pretend to understand all the financial issues, but if Trump breaks the law, there's no way he gets away with it. He's no HRC. :)
 
This chapter is closed. We had an uncharismatic, unelectable candidate who would be very fit to rule, and a highly electable one whose main diagnosis seems to be "unfit to rule". Bigly. It happens. There is an investigation going on, fine, let us see what they find...And let us say thank you to Hillary, and consider 2018 and 2020...

The easiest thing is to say, "everyone who voted for Trump is uneducated, ignorant and misogynistic". But it is not that simple, and if we do not acknowledge that something is deeply wrong between the coasts, that it is still "economy, stupid", like Bill used to say, we shall be sore losers in 2020.

Perhaps there was a misogynist group. It is true that women are held to totally different standards. And then there was group of Bernie supporters who did not vote for her, out of spite.

There was another group, for whom, as the young man I know, once said, "GOP is (their) favorite club. And maybe the club is bad, and the coach is sh.ty, but it is their club". I know some people that will lose ACA, and yet they voted for Trump.

But that fourth group, the one of rapidly lumpenizing low-middle class workers at Midwest or in the South, three ones who voted for Obama in 2012, who are now hopeless because the jobs are not going to come... their lives had not changed under Obama, and they did not want his successor. We expected shattered glass ceiling, and got broken blue wall. And I do feel sorry for these people, honestly. They expected jobs. The coal miners with black lungs were willing to get back into the shafts because it was their job for generations. What is the use to say that they are ignorant if they are left jobless, with their black lungs and now ACA taken away? They voted for Trump because they mistrusted politicians, from both parties, period, because both are corrupted. So they voted for the anti-establishment candidate who sold them the biggest lie of all. It is nauseating.

Also Hillary's last rally was in N. Carolina, while Mr. Orange nr 45, whom we consider stupid, was cruising the Midwest during last weeks and promising, promising, promising, jobs, greatness... Perhaps I should have been more attentive to articles like this https://www.google.com/amp/www.alja...ton-donald-trump-rallies-161104233413813.html instead of reading democratic press.

And we are left with Republican-dominant Congress and Senate, and Mr. 45 who will be signing executive orders as they guide him to.

So...forget Hillary. She and Bill will weather all of this. Let us look for the people who have the integrity and the potential to be the next leaders. People who have endurance for campaign trails and are good motivation speakers. And, oh, let us do something about our Democratic senators whose voting records sometimes are frankly shocking. I have zero hope for Republicans, but maybe all weird, bizzarre events that we are watching manifest the end of bipartisan system?
 
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kenny said:
That 'technicality' is not a technicality.
It is our electoral college system.
It helps or hurts every candidate in every election, regardless of party.

In America you don't win by popular vote.

IMO (and this has nothing to do with my hatred, yes hatred, of Cheeto) the electoral college system should be eliminated.
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I guess I shouldn't have called it a technicality.

I think big pile of stinking BS election-rigging crap would have been better. o_O

Anything that makes it so that the popular vote, in a democracy (for crying out loud :eek:) does not determine the presidency, should be eliminated.

The fact that the most recent Republicans (Bush and trump) were elected only because of this BS, indicates to me that Republicans cannot win on their own. :twisted:
 
AnnaH said:
Had not heard this, tc, and I don't just follow conservative news. Where was that reported?
I don't pretend to understand all the financial issues, but if Trump breaks the law, there's no way he gets away with it. He's no HRC. :)
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Here's one link:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/trump-hotels-stays-paid-foreign-govt-money-47617263

Here's another:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...oney-it-gets-from-foreign-governments/527997/

And none of the investigations on Hillary has come up with any criminality. That is a matter of fact, not your fake news.
 
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Like I said, Trump won't get away with anything. Had to laugh at the statement that Trump would be open to bribes from foreign governments. As if the Clinton Foundation wasn't.
 
AnnaH said:
Like I said, Trump won't get away with anything. Had to laugh at the statement that Trump would be open to bribes from foreign governments. As if the Clinton Foundation wasn't.
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Of course not!..
slap4.gif
 
AnnaH said:
Like I said, Trump won't get away with anything. Had to laugh at the statement that Trump would be open to bribes from foreign governments. As if the Clinton Foundation wasn't.
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Dancing Fire said:
Of course not!..
slap4.gif
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I'm sick and tired of this kind of arguments. What Hillary or the Clinton Foundation did, does, or will do is NOT a justification nor a defense for whatever Donald Trump did, does, or will do.

Defend Trump or his actions on its own merit. I mean, argue that the Emoluments Clause doesn't apply with a narrow interpretation of "present", there are enough originalists on the Supreme Court (I assume Gorsuch is one) that it would probably fly, but it doesn't fly to say Hillary or Bill or Chelsea or the new Clinton grandkid was worse.

Here's what I know:
1. Trump has flouted convention by not releasing his tax returns, so we don't know much about his financial situation or holdings. He could have a huge loan from the Saudis or the Martians and we would have no idea.
2. From what we do know about his businesses, we know he's skirting the ethics boundaries specially by not divesting as all other presidents have done. Jacking up membership fees is his business directly profiting from him being President. Advertising Mar-a-Lago as the "Winter White House" on the State Department's website is dubious. And, not his doing, but some foreign governments have probably already shown favor to his businesses to get on his good side: China happens to approve all the trademark applications from Trump and Ivanka so quickly? Coincidence?

Dan Plane, a director at Simone IP Services, a Hong Kong intellectual property consultancy, said he had never seen so many applications approved so expeditiously.
“For all these marks to sail through so quickly and cleanly, with no similar marks, no identical marks, no issues with specifications – boy, it’s weird,” he said. ​

3. His staff is willing to support him in his ethics-boundary pushing violation. Trump attacks Nordstrom for dropping Ivanka's lines. Then later Kelly-Anne Conway declares people should buy Ivanka's products. Seriously?!
4. Trump has a history of bailing on his promises and contracts as a real estate developer and as president.
5. His administration is embroiled in investigations about lying on disclosure forms, obstruction of justice, not to mention collusion with a foreign power to affect the election.

So what about Trump and his morality makes you sooo sure that he would not be open to bribes from foreign governments?
 
t-c said:
So what about Trump and his morality makes you sooo sure that he would not be open to bribes from foreign governments?
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Hey why not???...since HRC is few hundred million ahead of him.
 
HRC was protected by the Obama administration, and I don't think the Trump administration is interested in prosecuting her. Although she could get caught up in the Meuller investigation.

Yes, there are experts who dispute the idea that The Trump family should have to hold a fire sale in order to comply with law.

Don't see how Trump can get away with much. There are just too many entities determined to destroy him.
 
AnnaH said:
HRC was protected by the Obama administration, and I don't think the Trump administration is interested in prosecuting her. Although she could get caught up in the Meuller investigation.

Yes, there are experts who dispute the idea that The Trump family should have to hold a fire sale in order to comply with law.

Don't see how Trump can get away with much. There are just too many entities determined to destroy him.
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Source! Put your sources down!
 
AnnaH said:
Like I said, Trump won't get away with anything. Had to laugh at the statement that Trump would be open to bribes from foreign governments. As if the Clinton Foundation wasn't.
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There is the site, "inside philantropy", where you can find out where the money from.Clinton foundation goes to. It is not spent on Clinton family. They have serious global initiatives. There is also Clinton.Family Foundation, which is their private one. These two should not be confused.
Also, Clintons are not poor people, this is true. But, they pay their taxes every year, and their personal charity contributions are way higher than anything Trump contributed. It is all on that site.
And not to forget that Clinton foundation gives jobs to 2000 people.
 
AnnaH said:
HRC was protected by the Obama administration, and I don't think the Trump administration is interested in prosecuting her. Although she could get caught up in the Meuller investigation.

Yes, there are experts who dispute the idea that The Trump family should have to hold a fire sale in order to comply with law.

Don't see how Trump can get away with much. There are just too many entities determined to destroy him.
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As long as he has the support of his party, he is fine. It is an interesting situation, when many of the GOPs have less support back home than Trump has. When, and if, he loses it (the support), watch how rapidly the things unravel. So far what we are seeing is an attempt to fulfil a serious promise of Trump - cut the taxes, in the situation when there is no money for it. Hence pulling out of all initiatives, including the Paris climate agreement. It is not because Trump is a climate denier - it is because the money for lowering the taxes have to be taken from somewhere, and this somewhere is usually public funds.
I am against cutting public funds. Mind you, I am not always happy with the lack of supervision over how the funds are spent, i.e., projects like Masspike that extended well above the timeline and cost more than the budget, but cutting public budgets is the idea for which our kids will pay (with poor education, for example).
 
Oh poor Trump. We have checks and balances in place that he needs to abide by. How unfair that he actually has to follow rules. We all know he is a victim. He tweets about it constantly.

The rest of the world is laughing at our country for good reason.
 
t-c said:
Source! Put your sources down!
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Loretta and Bill on the tarmac.
I know many Democrats insist that Comey's pass on HRC means she's as clean as the driven snow. Nothing will change those minds.
 
Arkteia said:
There is the site, "inside philantropy", where you can find out where the money from.Clinton foundation goes to. It is not spent on Clinton family. They have serious global initiatives. There is also Clinton.Family Foundation, which is their private one. These two should not be confused.
Also, Clintons are not poor people, this is true. But, they pay their taxes every year, and their personal charity contributions are way higher than anything Trump contributed. It is all on that site.
And not to forget that Clinton foundation gives jobs to 2000 people.
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How do you explain the huge foreign speaking fees Bill received when his wife was Secretary of State?
 
AnnaH said:
Loretta and Bill on the tarmac.
I know many Democrats insist that Comey's pass on HRC means she's as clean as the driven snow. Nothing will change those minds.
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I base my opinion on HRC on actual results of investigations. Had the investigations found some criminal wrong-doing by Hillary Clinton, I would accept that. You, on the other hand, would ignore the conclusions of all investigations -- including investigations by Republicans -- because why, exactly? Because you know better? o_O You don't even explain and plausibly support how you came to your conclusion.
 
So, tc, you think Loretta and Bill discussed grandchildren and golf on the tarmac?
 
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