Moving back to East Coast. MD or NC top options.

[NewShiny]

I moved from the SF Bay area to Alabama. If I was able to do it, anyone can. We moved due to DH's job. We weren't forced to move by this company, it just made sense financially when the opportunity arose. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but now, given the change, I'm not sure I'd go back due to your same reasoning - finances. We have a good sized house on a large lot, I'm able to work part time, and we can choose to send our son to private school if we want to, none of which would be possible if we were still in CA.

My corporate office is in the Baltimore area so I go there for work. It's not a place I'd want to live for a long time. It's cold and gritty, for lack of a better word. My vote would be for NC.

DH and I are both extremely liberal. While it was hard at first, after about 3 years we finally found our friend base. It took a great amount of time and effort, but it happened. Almost all of them are from elsewhere and liberal just like us. A few of our friends who are from AL are even more liberal than we are. Honestly, I almost never interact with the red-state type, even though I know I'm surrounded by them. Before I made my real friends people would ask me questions like where do you go to church, etc. . . the first time I was asked I was shocked! In CA, that would be like coming right out and asking a stranger about their sex life!

I've learned that a place is what you make of it. No, where I live is not a mini-San Francisco by any means, but we still do our best to shop and eat in locally owned restaurants, and as I said above, surround ourselves by like-minded people (which is easier to do than you might think here because our area is an engineering/tech hub). I've brought my CA ways with me to the South, and really, it can work if you attitude is in the right place.

Overall, I find myself to be more tolerant because I live in the South. When I left CA, I didn't know a single Republican. Here, I'm surrounded by conservative opinions in local media, at work, etc. Knowing who some of "those" people are has really made me consider their positions and why I hold mine. While I'm sure we'll never change each other's minds, at least I know where some of the opinions are coming from that I completely dismissed in my CA days because "those people were from flyover states."

Best of luck on your decision. It's hard to move cross country and you'll find people aren't as transient in other parts of the country so it can be hard to make true friends since they usually have their friends from high school and family nearby, but I do hope you find a place you are comfortable in making the effort to settle into.

 

[Sky56]

^ NewShiny, You make many excellent points in your post above!

 

[Sky56]

I consider 'The Where Do You Go to Church' question very rude and intrusive when asked by a stranger or someone you don't know well. I only find it appropriate if the two parties are discussing religion to begin with.

I had that question asked to me quite a few times back when I lived in a small rural town in the West that was 12 miles from an ultra-liberal "hippie" university town. I was always taken aback by it. And I'm a Christian.

The reason I like your points about Alabama is because I am a liberal/Moderate Democrat who has a few conservative beliefs on a couple of issues. I fit in best with liberals though I often have a few qualms about them...but I digress...

I spend a lot of time in rural and small town Texas and yes, many of the people are very conservative, and here in the West, I play sports with some people who are very conservative and vote and think very differently from me, but I get along with them just fine...and some of them are very wonderful people...one even shoots varmints on her property and I am a vegetarian, yet I adore her.

The point is, it's good to keep an open mind and not overly judge people on political or philosophical differences. I find by being gracious, I get along fine whether in blue state or red. "Just stay away from jerks"...this is exact advice a friend whispered in my ear while on his deathbed.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I consider 'The Where Do You Go to Church' question very rude and intrusive when asked by a stranger or someone you don't know well. I only find it appropriate if the two parties are discussing religion to begin with.

I had that question asked to me quite a few times back when I lived in a small rural town in the West that was 12 miles from an ultra-liberal "hippie" university town. I was always taken aback by it. And I'm a Christian.

The reason I like your points about Alabama is because I am a liberal/Moderate Democrat who has a few conservative beliefs on a couple of issues. I fit in best with liberals though I often have a few qualms about them...but I digress...

I spend a lot of time in rural and small town Texas and yes, many of the people are very conservative, and here in the West, I play sports with some people who are very conservative and vote and think very differently from me, but I get along with them just fine...and some of them are very wonderful people...one even shoots varmints on her property and I am a vegetarian, yet I adore her.

The point is, it's good to keep an open mind and not overly judge people on political or philosophical differences. I find by being gracious, I get along fine whether in blue state or red. "Just stay away from jerks"...this is exact advice a friend whispered in my ear while on his deathbed.

Can I just say that I love what you wrote???!!!

 

[Roxy]

I consider 'The Where Do You Go to Church' question very rude and intrusive when asked by a stranger or someone you don't know well. I only find it appropriate if the two parties are discussing religion to begin with.

I had that question asked to me quite a few times back when I lived in a small rural town in the West that was 12 miles from an ultra-liberal "hippie" university town. I was always taken aback by it. And I'm a Christian.

The reason I like your points about Alabama is because I am a liberal/Moderate Democrat who has a few conservative beliefs on a couple of issues. I fit in best with liberals though I often have a few qualms about them...but I digress...

I spend a lot of time in rural and small town Texas and yes, many of the people are very conservative, and here in the West, I play sports with some people who are very conservative and vote and think very differently from me, but I get along with them just fine...and some of them are very wonderful people...one even shoots varmints on her property and I am a vegetarian, yet I adore her.

The point is, it's good to keep an open mind and not overly judge people on political or philosophical differences. I find by being gracious, I get along fine whether in blue state or red. "Just stay away from jerks"...this is exact advice a friend whispered in my ear while on his deathbed.

Can I just say that I love what you wrote???!!!

Me too!

Gypsy, Zoe's advice about spending time in NC for a few days w/ a realtor is spot-on. DH and I did that when we were considering living in Charlotte, and we followed up the next year w/ a similar visit to the Raleigh/Durham area.

We specifically went during what we thought would be the worst part of summer (the July/August timeframe) so that we could get a real life perspective on just how much the heat would affect us. Although we ultimately didn't move, we honestly fell in love w/ Charlotte (humidity and all ) so quickly that it shocked us.

Years later, when DH was considering a job offer in a city in Texas, where we have a lot of friends who were really trying to "sell" the city to us, we did the same thing and the opposite happened.

So, it looks like NC might be your top choice and you're on the right track with the idea to take some time and visit a few areas for a few days. Since your hubby is somewhat sensitive to the weather, I'd seriously consider going in July/Aug vs spring or fall though because at least he'd get to see that the "worst" of the heat really isn't that bad .

 

[swingirl]

Gypsy, I will be sorry to see you go. We definitely will need a GTG before you move as it's been several years since you and I attended the same one. But I understand the financial issues that Bay Area folks have to deal with. My poor daughter is stuck living at home until she can afford a studio or 1 bedroom apartment for $2000 a month.

I wish you the best in finding a comfortable place to call home. There are good people everywhere and you will attract the best!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I loved living in NC. I found the major cities fairly liberal. Rural NC, not so much. Cost of living is so low. Summers are quite hot though.

 

[Gypsy]

I moved from the SF Bay area to Alabama. If I was able to do it, anyone can. We moved due to DH's job. We weren't forced to move by this company, it just made sense financially when the opportunity arose. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but now, given the change, I'm not sure I'd go back due to your same reasoning - finances. We have a good sized house on a large lot, I'm able to work part time, and we can choose to send our son to private school if we want to, none of which would be possible if we were still in CA.

My corporate office is in the Baltimore area so I go there for work. It's not a place I'd want to live for a long time. It's cold and gritty, for lack of a better word. My vote would be for NC.

DH and I are both extremely liberal. While it was hard at first, after about 3 years we finally found our friend base. It took a great amount of time and effort, but it happened. Almost all of them are from elsewhere and liberal just like us. A few of our friends who are from AL are even more liberal than we are. Honestly, I almost never interact with the red-state type, even though I know I'm surrounded by them. Before I made my real friends people would ask me questions like where do you go to church, etc. . . the first time I was asked I was shocked! In CA, that would be like coming right out and asking a stranger about their sex life!

I've learned that a place is what you make of it. No, where I live is not a mini-San Francisco by any means, but we still do our best to shop and eat in locally owned restaurants, and as I said above, surround ourselves by like-minded people (which is easier to do than you might think here because our area is an engineering/tech hub). I've brought my CA ways with me to the South, and really, it can work if you attitude is in the right place.

Overall, I find myself to be more tolerant because I live in the South. When I left CA, I didn't know a single Republican. Here, I'm surrounded by conservative opinions in local media, at work, etc. Knowing who some of "those" people are has really made me consider their positions and why I hold mine. While I'm sure we'll never change each other's minds, at least I know where some of the opinions are coming from that I completely dismissed in my CA days because "those people were from flyover states."

Best of luck on your decision. It's hard to move cross country and you'll find people aren't as transient in other parts of the country so it can be hard to make true friends since they usually have their friends from high school and family nearby, but I do hope you find a place you are comfortable in making the effort to settle into.

Your post really resonated with me, thanks so much Shiny. And LMAO at the RED post. SO true. It is like asking someone in the grocery store about their sex life. So funny!

I feel like your post was so very helpful to me because I could see myself (hopefully) writing it in a few years.

We've moved quite a bit. And while, HONESTLY if it wasn't for the cost of living I would not move out of CA, cost of living affects EVERYTHING. And while we live in NJ I learned a lot. We knew a LOT of Republicans (DH's Ex-BIL was a Republican who held public office) and NJ was actually very insulated. Everyone was friends from grade school. Everyone was white. And it was strange. But good strange. I'd still move back there.

Again, thanks so much for your thoughtful post!

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, I will be sorry to see you go. We definitely will need a GTG before you move as it's been several years since you and I attended the same one. But I understand the financial issues that Bay Area folks have to deal with. My poor daughter is stuck living at home until she can afford a studio or 1 bedroom apartment for $2000 a month.

I wish you the best in finding a comfortable place to call home. There are good people everywhere and you will attract the best!

Thank you so much swingirl. We will definitely have to have a nice low key get together soon.

We're going to do some number crunching over the next couple weeks.

I was kinda sorta offered a promotion but it would require moving to MA. And I don't want to move to MA and I don't want the promotion either (that sounds bad). So I need to talk to my boss again about options.

I know exactly what you mean about rent. Our rent for our apartment starts at 2,800 a month. That's SEVERAL mortgages in North Carolina. And we're not building equity, or getting any tax breaks for interest.

I hope your daughter can find a good situation for herself soon.

 

[Gypsy]

Roxy and Sky and Tacori, thank you so much for your great posts. I do think a visit is warranted. And soon.

We also have offices by Charlotte too. But it's a VERY small office and I would prefer to be in the larger office.

We've got a lot of decisions to make. And I need to speak to my boss some.

Lots of things to think about. And this thread has been fantastic.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I loved living in NC. I found the major cities fairly liberal. Rural NC, not so much. Cost of living is so low. Summers are quite hot though.

We miss you, S! Hope your family is doing well!

 

[aljdewey]

I was kinda sorta offered a promotion but it would require moving to MA. And I don't want to move to MA and I don't want the promotion either (that sounds bad). So I need to talk to my boss again about options.

Even if you would consider MA, it's horrible expensive here and wouldn't come close to helping with your primary objective - better cost of living/financial goals. I can't speak for the western part of the state (Berkshires, et. al), but the eastern side runs (at least) double/triple what your optimum housing budget is, and the mid-state areas that might strike closer to your figure wouldn't hold a candle for amenities compared to what you're used to.

Best of luck on the search.

 

[Gypsy]

I was kinda sorta offered a promotion but it would require moving to MA. And I don't want to move to MA and I don't want the promotion either (that sounds bad). So I need to talk to my boss again about options.

Even if you would consider MA, it's horrible expensive here and wouldn't come close to helping with your primary objective - better cost of living/financial goals. I can't speak for the western part of the state (Berkshires, et. al), but the eastern side runs (at least) double/triple what your optimum housing budget is, and the mid-state areas that might strike closer to your figure wouldn't hold a candle for amenities compared to what you're used to.

Best of luck on the search.

Thanks Aldj, I don't want to state where my company is in MA, as I feel its very recognizable (I would off the boards, but not here), but I have looked at the housing prices very carefully there (this isn't the first time I've been offered an incentive to move to MA for my company) and while we could get a nice 2 bedroom condo there (very close to work actually) for about 280,000 (much better than the 450k here for similar or not even as nice), the amenities are actually quite nice (restaurants and shopping), be near to a lot of close friends (biggest draw, honestly), in a blue (if not the bluest) state, and close to family (well, within 5 hours)... the weather is a really big negative and the cost of living (overall) is not that much lower than CA. Plus, I barely drive now, in CA. And I hate driving in the snow and am frankly not very good at it, DH has significant physical limitations with his back and that is not going to get better as he ages so shoveling snow and walking on ice are a problem.

So for me, MA is not really a good option. Still, it is hard to turn down job opportunities that would result in significant pay increases. But the pay increase of this particular opportunity is easily made up by the cost of living and mortgage savings in NC.

Thanks so much for your reply!

 

[SB621]

I was kinda sorta offered a promotion but it would require moving to MA. And I don't want to move to MA and I don't want the promotion either (that sounds bad). So I need to talk to my boss again about options.

Even if you would consider MA, it's horrible expensive here and wouldn't come close to helping with your primary objective - better cost of living/financial goals. I can't speak for the western part of the state (Berkshires, et. al), but the eastern side runs (at least) double/triple what your optimum housing budget is, and the mid-state areas that might strike closer to your figure wouldn't hold a candle for amenities compared to what you're used to.

Best of luck on the search.

Thanks Aldj, I don't want to state where my company is in MA, as I feel its very recognizable (I would off the boards, but not here), but I have looked at the housing prices very carefully there (this isn't the first time I've been offered an incentive to move to MA for my company) and while we could get a nice 2 bedroom condo there (very close to work actually) for about 280,000 (much better than the 450k here for similar or not even as nice), the amenities are actually quite nice (restaurants and shopping), be near to a lot of close friends (biggest draw, honestly), in a blue (if not the bluest) state, and close to family (well, within 5 hours)... the weather is a really big negative and the cost of living (overall) is not that much lower than CA. Plus, I barely drive now, in CA. And I hate driving in the snow and am frankly not very good at it, DH has significant physical limitations with his back and that is not going to get better as he ages so shoveling snow and walking on ice are a problem.

So for me, MA is not really a good option. Still, it is hard to turn down job opportunities that would result in significant pay increases. But the pay increase of this particular opportunity is easily made up by the cost of living and mortgage savings in NC.

Thanks so much for your reply!

Oh Gypsy for very selfish reasons I want you to go to MA, but I hear ya on the weather. New England has a special place in my heart as I went to college, found my DH and got married there. But the total lack of summer (ok we might get 6 weeks if that) and the 8 ft of snow you might get might turn some off. For the record I hate snow but I'm really trying to talk my DH into retiring in NE if we can. Not to push the issue as I know MA has a higher COL but what about NH? It is still really close to your company? For me NH is perfect as you are close to large cities but still in the country without traffic, smug etc. Plus I love that there are hugh minority populatios around Boston/ NH. Some of the best restaurants I have ever been too. Sorry I'm digressing but I just love new england! Just wish it was 20 degrees warmer year round and it would be perfect for me!

 

[Gypsy]

Hi SB, New Hampshire is a lovely suggestion. But it is too far from the offices of my company.

I do think that except for the weather, New England sounds like a lovely place.

 

[missy]

Haha! That is the truth! We both could get to NY faster! Yes, it is the same place. You could fly into Asheville and rent a car and drive the rest of the way which would be maybe 1.5 hours. But I may be up for a NY trip, too. Maybe we can talk about some dates and arrange a GTG with some of the NYC people.

YES YES YES. Count me in ladies.

Gypsy, I am dealing with similar issues granted not as immediate as your decision. I thought we (I) had it all figured out but cost of living here is just crazy and getting worse. Our property taxes at the beach house (NJ shore) is over 20K a year now and I won't even share what our maintenance at the NYC(Brooklyn) co-op is.

So I have been rethinking and mulling over our choices. And all the arguments you and others have brought up have come up in our thought processes as well. Especially the religious (or lack of) tolerance issue. There is no "perfect" place. One that combines the low cost of living, the best weather (for us), the best political, cultural and philosophical diversity that we would want etc. So it comes down to figuring out what is the best compromise merging the qualities/features we need and want with what we can afford to let go. Not easy by any means.

I will add that weather really is a critical issue but one can always take long vacations during an oppressive summer...North Carolina is still my vote for you. Just make it (near) a fairly large urban area where there is a lot going on and I think you will be OK. Plus some of my favorite PSers (DS and Yenny to name 2) are near there!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Missy, I would love to see you, and I will seriously look at my calendar and try to post a thread about a NYC get-together soon! It is hard for east coast people to make it to Las Vegas every year and there is SO much to see and do in NYC, too!

Gypsy, I am sure you realize this, but everywhere here is air-conditioned. I know there are places in the north where they are not, and that's why I mention it. The summer is tolerable to me because I am not in the heat all that much! We love the access to the beach and the mountains, too. (Not CA, but I recall Peter Jennings once saying on the news that he thought NC was the second most beautiful state after CA!). After having lived outside of Chicago for 4 years or so, I will take the heat of the summer ANY day over 3+ feet of snow to deal with all winter and temperatures below 0. I'd love to visit there (in the summer), but not to live, especially when future health concerns like bad backs, etc. are considered. I will say that we absolutely loved Virginia, but the cost of living will be quite a bit higher in the areas surrounding Washington, if your company has offices near there.

 

[NewShiny]

Thank you! This topic is hard for me to write about because it's a lot of personal info (for me, anyway) to share in a public forum. Gypsy has been so generous with her time and thoughts over the years though, so I wanted to help add some perspective since I've actually done what she's considering for the reasons she is considering it.

^ NewShiny, You make many excellent points in your post above!

 

[NewShiny]

You are welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful & good luck with your decision! I love CA too, but my husband isn't from there and he just couldn't understand the real estate prices and commute times. Now that we live elsewhere, I have to say I agree. However, if we win the lottery, we've moving back!

Your post really resonated with me, thanks so much Shiny. And LMAO at the RED post. SO true. It is like asking someone in the grocery store about their sex life. So funny!

I feel like your post was so very helpful to me because I could see myself (hopefully) writing it in a few years.

We've moved quite a bit. And while, HONESTLY if it wasn't for the cost of living I would not move out of CA, cost of living affects EVERYTHING. And while we live in NJ I learned a lot. We knew a LOT of Republicans (DH's Ex-BIL was a Republican who held public office) and NJ was actually very insulated. Everyone was friends from grade school. Everyone was white. And it was strange. But good strange. I'd still move back there.

Again, thanks so much for your thoughtful post![/quote]

 

[aljdewey]

So for me, MA is not really a good option.

I agree. I wasn't suggesting MA; I was actually discouraging it because you've said the whole point of your move is to attain a dramatically lower cost of living, and MA really couldn't offer that. I just wanted to provide some COL insight - didn't realize you actually had some reference on real estate prices here.

As you mentioned, the area you'd be happy in would provide a condo for $280K, which is almost double your stated optimal budget of $150K mentioned earlier in the thread.

Something else to think about: if your move may be a long term thing (into retirement), what will property taxes look like?

I live in northern MA bordering NH. The home prices in NH are less than MA, but the relative property taxes are double because they are the primary revenue base for the state, which has no state income tax. I preferred to pay the higher price tag on the MA home (which would be incurred during my income-bearing years and eventually paid off) instead of buying a NH home where I'd incur rising property tax rates in my retirement (non income-bearing) years that could never be relieved/paid off.

Even if we sold, you can resell the home (recoup the higher monies paid), but you can 'resell' the prior years taxes paid.

 

[MarionC]

Edit:

I removed my long post because I don't want to offend.

Run away from NC if you don't want to be mobbed my political and religious crazies. Stay in MD. I have lived in both places and would choose MD every.single.time. Though I do have children and would not want them raised in NC and my skin isn't as thick as yours, so you might have better luck then I did. I'll leave it at that.

This surprises me. We moved from NY to NC and it's been very good to us. I think what you bring to a place is what you experience there. No offense meant, but I have found it to be true. I don't know what part of NC you have experienced, but Chapel HIll and Carrboro are wonderful.

Jimmianne, no offense taken but I personally don't care for someone telling my 2 year old they are going to hell (this was a daycare provided at a TOP daycare, 5 star blah blah blah), I don't care for the casual use of calling someone the N word or F word, and the oppressive theme of being told that women are good for nothing except making "pudding." We lived about an hour outside the triangle area. It wasn't even those being offensive but really it was others who so readily just accepted that weare in the south and it is ok, to let it roll off of them vs. saying something. That was my biggest issue. So yes I would run, not walk, away from NC. I give this advise to Gypsy because on PS she is well known for being outspokent and doesn't back down on her political views. She isn't your typical Southern bell to smile and nod. That is why I answered the way I did.

ah, I do see what you mean..

I actually live in Pittsboro, a farm & arts community that is progressive, so I haven't experienced any of that. It's 15 minutes from Chapel Hill and is growing like crazy, with upscale development. I do recommend it.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I loved living in NC. I found the major cities fairly liberal. Rural NC, not so much. Cost of living is so low. Summers are quite hot though.

We miss you, S! Hope your family is doing well!

It's suppose to snow tonight so I have fond memories of NC Hope you are doing well J!

L, I really, really loved Charlotte. Ultimately only you know what it is right for you but if you could visit there as well might help in your decision making process. Pretty much everyone there are "transplants" from the Midwest/Northeast.

 

[Sky56]

The trick of course is to find a place that best meets your needs, and Gypsy and the others are right about cost of living being up there as paramount. I left NYC, Long Island and California years ago, literally I knew the cost of living would "kill" me.

I found my dream place to live, a rural Western state, and a rural area in it. It works perfectly for me, though it doesn't for others. Those who hate rain leave after a short time, those who have seasonal allergies suffer tremendously...but for me it feels like paradise.

Low crime rate is very important to me.

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to find that near perfect place that works for you. I found that if I was unhappy after a year or two in a new place, I moved away from it. I quit moving around in 1986.

I love small town and rural New England but I wouldn't handle those winters well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have sales tax of around 7.5% and property taxes are not bad at all if you are outside of a city. We currently only pay county taxes and our yearly tax on our 3500 sq ft house on 3/4 acre is about $2500 (but it would be double if we were also within city limits). You could get an extremely nice home here for $2800 a month. I didn't catch your current rent until just now. I don't see how average people can ever afford to retire there. Of course, a lot do move from the north and midwest to the south to retire, and they have a significant increase in their lifestyle due to selling property up there and then buying here.

 

[Gypsy]

I did research the property taxes in NC and they are quite reasonable, I thought.

It's $0.50 for every $100 appraised value.

As long as we keep our housing practical and modest, I think we'll be okay.

And I do agree with Aljdewey: I'd rather have higher housing costs than property taxes.

 

[zoebartlett]

I loved living in NC. I found the major cities fairly liberal. Rural NC, not so much. Cost of living is so low. Summers are quite hot though.

We miss you, S! Hope your family is doing well!

It's suppose to snow tonight so I have fond memories of NC Hope you are doing well J!

L, I really, really loved Charlotte. Ultimately only you know what it is right for you but if you could visit there as well might help in your decision making process. Pretty much everyone there are "transplants" from the Midwest/Northeast.

I wish we had met while I was living in Charlotte, DS. Tacori, it was great getting to know you and T.! It was so funny, other than people I met through work (teaching in a farming community in rural Union County), most people we met were from NY. Only our Realtor was a born and bred Charlottean (sp?).