Mueller’s Conference today

[redwood66]

I know at least in my country neither side gets it right 100% of the time, and that's O.K. I totally get why so many people in the US wanted a change. The main point is, that I think we should all do our best to hold the people we elect to represent us to the highest standards possible. Trump doesn't meet those standards and people that believe he does have been lied to and mislead into thinking so.

I can appreciate others' POV and understand their frustration. It's when discussions devolve into nastiness that turns personal just for kicks that I am done.

 

[Matata]

Now I'm going to guess that at least one of the people I have on ignore is righteously indignant about my reply to @House Cat because that person posts in a constant state of righteous indignation. Same old same old about why conservatives don't post here; wants respectful discussion; all liberals want is an echo chamber. I've read those responses so many times in the past and the message has been so static that I'm willing to bet those same words appear here today. Malarky. What conservatives seem to want is near total agreement with their views and if they don't get it, cast aspersions on liberals as rude and disrespectful. T

 

[House Cat]

This is fine for you. But don't assume that everyone has the need to vent or that they are not engaging in healthy habits because they don't rant/discuss on an internet forum. As has been discussed in the past, there are fundamental differences in how liberals and conservatives think and act. I don't care to answer your demeaning and derogatory question "Why aren’t you people outraged by the buffoon in office or by the Russian interference with our election?" I don't ask this type of question of you because IMO it is rude and an attempt to start a fight. I want to continue to like you as I do and that kind of engagement is not something I am interested in. I don't need to explain myself or my views over and over to a group of people who show no mutual respect either. This is why conservatives don't post here. No one wants discussion, they want echo chambers. - And the ability to bash a conservative on the internet, not saying all want this but some obviously do.

Whoa. I only read half of your post. You are too aggressive for my taste today.

I wasn’t trying to start a fight. I was asking honest questions. I don’t do passive aggressive Red, i do aggressive aggressive. You will know when i am trying to start a fight, thankyouverymuch!

 

[redwood66]

Now I'm going to guess that at least one of the people I have on ignore is righteously indignant about my reply to @House Cat because that person posts in a constant state of righteous indignation. Same old same old about why conservatives don't post here; wants respectful discussion; all liberals want is an echo chamber. I've read those responses so many times in the past and the message has been so static that I'm willing to bet those same words appear here today. Malarky. What conservatives seem to want is near total agreement with their views and if they don't get it, cast aspersions on liberals as rude and disrespectful. T

Yep it's me. I don't care if you agree with me or not. IMO you are being rude and disrespectful.

The line about wanting total agreement with their views is hilariously hypocritical.

 

[redwood66]

Whoa. I only read half of your post. You are too aggressive for my taste today.

I wasn’t trying to start a fight. I was asking honest questions. I don’t do passive aggressive Red, i do aggressive aggressive. You will know when i am trying to start a fight, thankyouverymuch!

There's a lot of assumption in this post. None of what I wrote was meant to be aggressive, passive or otherwise. I am sorry it appeared that way to you.

 

[House Cat]

There's a lot of assumption in this post. None of what I wrote was meant to be aggressive, passive or otherwise. I am sorry it appeared that way to you.

Just as you assumed i was trying to start arguments with my post. As a matter of fact, you assumed quite a bit about my post.

 

[redwood66]

Just as you assumed i was trying to start arguments with my post.

Ok. Fair enough. Glad you weren't. Most of my post was not directed at you personally.

 

[Matata]

Trump doesn't meet those standards and people that believe he does have been lied to and mislead into thinking so.

You're giving people too much credit. Perhaps they wanted to believe the schtick trump force-fed them but his failure to launch as a human being and as a leader and his utter failure in policy can't be ignored unless it's willful ignorance. Those people who continue to support trump are looking in a mirror and loving what they see. It's not only his policy failures that rankle. It's also the carte blanch permission he has given for the worst to be celebrated by the worst. The pure hate he has unleashed in our society is overwhelming.

 

[Calliecake]

We will survive Trump and the next one too. I feel for you as well.

But wouldn’t it be nice if the whole country wasn’t torn to shreds? It will take many years to repair the damage Trump has done. Republicans are not standing on the correct side of history. These years will be known as the years America lost her way on so many fronts.

I’m deeply saddened, sickened and disgusted with so many things that are happening in our country. Our country is so divided that I’m wondering if we will ever be able to come back together.

 

[Calliecake]

You're giving people too much credit. Perhaps they wanted to believe the schtick trump force-fed them but his failure to launch as a human being and as a leader and his utter failure in policy can't be ignored unless it's willful ignorance. Those people who continue to support trump are looking in a mirror and loving what they see. It's not only his policy failures that rankle. It's also the carte blanch permission he has given for the worst to be celebrated by the worst. The pure hate he has unleashed in our society is overwhelming.

I couldn’t agree with you more @Matata.

 

[redwood66]

But wouldn’t it be nice if the whole country wasn’t torn to shreds? It will take many years to repair the damage Trump has done. Republicans are not standing on the correct side of history. These years will be known as the years America lost her way on so many fronts.

I’m deeply saddened, sickened and disgusted with so many things that are happening in our country. Our country is so divided that I’m wondering if we will ever be able to come back together.

We don't agree on the country being torn to shreds. It would be nice if people could get along better for sure.

 

[Calliecake]

Our President and those he surrounds himself with ignore rules of laws. They are ignoring the constitution which they swore an oath to uphold. For those who might be confused, the constitution is different than “The Art Of The Deal”

 

[seaurchin]

Our President and those he surrounds himself with ignore rules of laws. They are ignoring the constitution which they swore an oath to uphold.

Exactly.

This is not in any way comparable to "What Obama did" or "What Hilary did." It's a whole new, crazy, dangerous, terrifying ball game. This is what dictators do. Supporting Trump is supporting an aspiring dictator.

 

[Octo2005]

@AGBF it is too bad this affects you so.

Shouldn't it affect every American? These are serious issues and every single person should care!

 

[redwood66]

Shouldn't it affect every American? These are serious issues and every single person should care!

I meant how it personally affects her to such a degree.

 

[Octo2005]

Respectful discussion is always appreciated. And no I don't like Trump the man at all and never have. He is a buffoon. But some of the things he campaigned on are issues that many people agree with, otherwise he would not have been elected. I don't have confidence in government to handle much of anything without messing it up somehow so I am not a good Republican either.

I agree, and feel that both parties are not doing what they were elected to do. I also think that while policies can fail and hind sight is always 20/20, he has chosen to surround himself with incompetence. He didn't strive to find the most qualified people to make decisions that fall within their areas of expertise, he hired a bunch of "yes men". That benefits him and his agenda, not the country as a whole.

I guess part of the reason that many are so upset (and lash out at conservatives<not that it makes it right) is because there are many on the right that feel the same way as you do about his character and are willing to overlook it because he promised conservative policies.

This man has been openly an awful human being for decades and people still decided that he was the man for them. I have know comprehension why anyone could believe anything that he says. He has been a liar, a cheat and a mysoginsitic narcissist right out in the open for nearly 40 years now. Why anyone would believe that he is somehow now doing to be the champion of the working class is mind boggling.

Politics has become so divided and divisive that a mans character is no longer taken into consideration, only that he will tow the party line. The ideologies are drifting further and further apart instead of working to find common ground and compromise. Look at men like McCain, he may have different ideas about how best to make the country stronger, but one could never question his integrity or motives. He treated others with respect, he always tried to put the needs of others first, he had a strong moral compass and the courage to make decisions that he felt to be right even when unpopular. And, last but not least, he never embarrassed his county.

 

[redwood66]

I agree, and feel that both parties are not doing what they were elected to do. I also think that while policies can fail and hind sight is always 20/20, he has chosen to surround himself with incompetence. He didn't strive to find the most qualified people to make decisions that fall within their areas of expertise, he hired a bunch of "yes men". That benefits him and his agenda, not the country as a whole.

I guess part of the reason that many are so upset (and lash out at conservatives<not that it makes it right) is because there are many on the right that feel the same way as you do about his character and are willing to overlook it because he promised conservative policies.

This man has been openly an awful human being for decades and people still decided that he was the man for them. I have know comprehension why anyone could believe anything that he says. He has been a liar, a cheat and a mysoginsitic narcissist right out in the open for nearly 40 years now. Why anyone would believe that he is somehow now doing to be the champion of the working class is mind boggling.

Politics has become so divided and divisive that a mans character is no longer taken into consideration, only that he will tow the party line. The ideologies are drifting further and further apart instead of working to find common ground and compromise. Look at men like McCain, he may have different ideas about how best to make the country stronger, but one could never question his integrity or motives. He treated others with respect, he always tried to put the needs of others first, he had a strong moral compass and the courage to make decisions that he felt to be right even when unpopular. And, last but not least, he never embarrassed his county.

If I had my druthers I would be saying President Cruz. But other voters thought differently.

 

[seaurchin]

I don't see it as Reps vs. Dems at all anymore. I know plenty of Republicans who have temporarily switched sides until we get rid of the giant menace that is Trump.

Also, with the gerrymandering and Russian interference, I would not at all say Trump was elected by the people in the first place.

 

[partgypsy]

I don't think that Trump is hiring incompetents, what he is doing is hiring or appointing sycophants. To the degree that if anyone with a bit of moral fiber or has a different opinion leaves or is fired (usually by twitter!) The report shows that indeed, Trump asked for Comey to "kiss his ring" over upholding the laws of DOJ or the country. Same thing for Sessions. Till we have gotten to the meat grinder spectacle of Trump going through appointees like a circus car goes through clowns until you are left with the only ones who are so blindly power hungry/loyal to Trump they are willing to ignore the ethical responsibilities of their job. It's the kind of stuff you see in dictatorships.
Since Trump can't get rid of the cabinet, he does the next best thing of filling with flunkies (the incompetence is just a side effect). Eta not all departures were due to Trump firing them. Some people left voluntarily after experiencing the job environment and/or Trump's behavior, and others were forced out due to scandals/corruption (Flynn, Zinke, Pruitt, McEntee, Tom Price, Fitzgerald, etc).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...and-resignations-in-trump-administration.html

 

[arkieb1]

You're giving people too much credit. Perhaps they wanted to believe the schtick trump force-fed them but his failure to launch as a human being and as a leader and his utter failure in policy can't be ignored unless it's willful ignorance. Those people who continue to support trump are looking in a mirror and loving what they see. It's not only his policy failures that rankle. It's also the carte blanch permission he has given for the worst to be celebrated by the worst. The pure hate he has unleashed in our society is overwhelming.

Yes I totally agree I often sit back and wonder objectively not only is he representing all of deep seated repressed sexist, racist, homophobic and other negative sentiments some Americans have, but also, if people that voted for him that still support him do so purely because they don't want to be wrong. So many of us hate to be wrong - they are willing to overlook, or wave away his shortcomings as nothing when I doubt they would tolerate those things in a candidate on the other side of the political fence.

 

[monarch64]

@monarch64 I felt defensive after reading arkie b’s post too. Then I clicked “Show Ignored Content” and assumed she was responding to DF’s trolling.

Thank you. I finally came back to this thread and that is indeed what happened. That ignore button can be a double-edged sword sometimes!

 

[Maria D]

And you people wonder why conservatives don't post here.

If I'm one of those people, I don't wonder at all. I know exactly why.

 

[Maria D]

Yes I totally agree I often sit back and wonder objectively not only is he representing all of deep seated repressed sexist, racist, homophobic and other negative sentiments some Americans have, but also, if people that voted for him that still support him do so purely because they don't want to be wrong. So many of us hate to be wrong - they are willing to overlook, or wave away his shortcomings as nothing when I doubt they would tolerate those things in a candidate on the other side of the political fence.

The silver lining, if there can be one, to Trump being elected is that Americans are forced to confront the fact that a sizable number of us are either outright (even proudly) racist/homophobic/sexist or quite comfortable condoning those who are. Many of us wanted to believe we were post- "name your ism" in this country, or that it was only a small minority of disgruntled folk with these beliefs. We needed to wake up and see reality.

@smitcompton said that Democrats are weak. She is absolutely right. Liberals need to wake up and fight. I sincerely hope that all those who take the time to compose their cogent thoughts here are also doing it in IRL.

 

[redwood66]

Everyone who doesn't think like you is a racist is a very tired diatribe. It gave you Trump.

 

[arkieb1]

Everyone who doesn't think like you is a racist is a very tired diatribe. It gave you Trump.

I was arguing that Trump seems to legitimise racism with some supporters that follow him, not suggesting every person that voted for him or indeed all conservatives are racist. Far from it, I know plenty who are not both in the US and here.

I also believe as many have suggested on here in previous posts that there is a core group of young men that feel disenfranchised which is growing in America and around the world, that are openly racist, homophobic, Islamophobic and have a deep seated contempt generally for women, they feel that their "rights" have somehow been taken away from them. That isn't unique to the US in fact the Australian guy that shot all those people in New Zealand also had/has the same set of beliefs.

 

[redwood66]

I was arguing that Trump seems to legitimise racism with some supporters that follow him, not suggesting every person that voted for him or indeed all conservatives are racist. Far from it, I know plenty who are not both in the US and here.

It wasn't for you @arkieb1. But many think that anyone who voted for Trump is a racist and people are tired of it. Or if you didn't like Obama. One only has to look at any discussion on immigration. Of course there are racists in the US and elsewhere, there always will be.

 

[arkieb1]

It wasn't for you @arkieb1. But many think that anyone who voted for Trump is a racist and people are tired of it. Or if you didn't like Obama. One only has to look at any discussion on immigration. Of course there are racists in the US and elsewhere, there always will be.

Yes there will always be racism but we are at a time in history when racism and openly racist political parties (we have One Nation in Australia led by a woman who is a moron but that's another story) seem to be growing in popularity around the world. In Australia, in Europe, in the UK and in the US, the movement to right wing conservatism with this old nostalgic nationalism that sees a lot of voters want to close boarders and enforce domestic protectionism is a direct push/reaction against things like immigration (both illegal and legal), a fear of terrorism, and people want to hark back to what I'd describe as "golden ages" with full employment and generally more secure economic climates.

The sad thing is we can go backwards (the industrial age that drove the golden age is long over, we are depleting our mining resources) only forwards and I don't think ultimately doing it with a racist agenda is going to benefit any country in the long run.

 

[redwood66]

Wanting immigration processes updated is not racist. Wanting full employment (for everyone) is not racist. Wanting a secure economic climate for everyone is not racist. Why in your mind are these things tied to racism?

 

[Maria D]

Wanting immigration processes updated is not racist. Wanting full employment (for everyone) is not racist. Wanting a secure economic climate for everyone is not racist. Why in your mind are these things tied to racism?

The immigration policies of the Trump administration are racist. Those who accept them condone racism, even if they don't wear a MAGA hat and run around shouting racist epithets.

 

[AGBF]

The immigration policies of the Trump administration are racist. Those who accept them condone racism, even if they don't wear a MAGA hat and run around shouting racist epithets.

Wanting immigration policies updated is not racist. Condoning Trump's immigration policies is beyond racist.