My Little Ruby and GIA

[jeaniefish]

My little ruby just “ graduated” from the GIA. I purchased it from a gem dealer in London a few years ago. When I decided to sell it, and listed it on LT, A very knowledgeable PS member wanted to buy it but had some questions about it ‘s age and decided to pass on it.
. It was described as being Edwardian by the London dealer.Because the PS member had questioned the authenticity of the age of the stone ( not enough wear to the surface?) , I contacted the London dealer. After much back and forth with him ( that’s another story for another time) , I decided to contact a dealer in Austin who specializes in antique jewelry. He advised sending it to GIA for analysis. It came back yesterday. He still has my ring , since it’s in Austin and I won’t be up there for a few weeks..The GIA certificate says nothing about age ( darn it). I love that it’s Pigeon Blood and from Burma, but don’t know how to proceed with the discussion of age. The ruby is gorgeous, and glows from within. At least to my eyes, it does. Should I just overlook the age question and appreciate the ring for what I know for certain that it is? I don’t think that I could buy it now for the price I paid several years ago.
Thoughts, advice appreciated, especially from the knowledgeable ruby lovers on PS.
Here’s the GII certificate

 

[Avondale]

The treatment level tells you a little bit about its age, as in, when it was mined and cut. The presence of residues points to flux healing, which I believe has been in use since the 80s - about the time the Mong Hsu deposit came into market (if I’m wrong feel free to correct me, but I believe I shouldn’t be off by much).

If I understand correctly, the ring was bought as Edwardian, but a flux healed ruby cannot be from that age, as those are more recent stones. So either the stone has been replaced in the setting, or the entire ring isn’t that old.

 

[jeaniefish]

The treatment level tells you a little bit about its age, as in, when it was mined and cut. The presence of residues points to flux healing, which I believe has been in use since the 80s - about the time the Mong Hsu deposit came into market (if I’m wrong feel free to correct me, but I believe I shouldn’t be off by much).

If I understand correctly, the ring was bought as Edwardian, but a flux healed ruby cannot be from that age, as those are more recent stones. So either the stone has been replaced in the setting, or the entire ring isn’t that old.

@Avondale , I really appreciate your input. I know very little about rubies, except that there is a certain color that I love, and this one has it. Having said that, the dealer represented the entire ring as being “ circa 1880s” ..I’ve attached a picture of the original listing on his website. I’m going to have to give this whole situation some thought before talking to the dealer who sent the ring to GIA for me.

 

[Calla-lilies]

I don't know anything about antiques... all I can say - it's a beautiful ring!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Gosh, that’s gorgeous! Avondale sleuthing is very interesting.

If you use a loop, can you see the faceting of the stone? If it was from the Edwardian era I would expect it to have a culet or other characteristics of cuts from that era?

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I bought a ring that was 1920s with Burma sapphires, according to the seller. I sent it to AGL, and the origin was reported as Madagascar. Not possible for an original Edwardian ring. I disputed the charge with my credit card company, and was offered a 60% discount to keep the ring.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Interesting! I have never seen the GIA qualify a color as "vivid" or mention a trade designation like "pigeon's blood." I wonder if this is new? In any event, I can't speak to the age. But if you're truly curious, I would have someone look at it who specializes in antique jewels and is qualified to certify it as such. Good luck... it's beautiful!!

 

[Autumn in New England]

The presence of residues points to flux healing, which I believe has been in use since the 80s... so either the stone has been replaced in the setting, or the entire ring isn’t that old.

This is a very astute observation! Rubies have been heated for thousands of years, but fracture-filling (aside from rudimentary oiling) is a relatively new process. I wish they mentioned which type of material was used, like the AGL does with emeralds. Traditionally it was glass, but now we're even seeing resin.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

This post is very informative. Your ring is gorgeous!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Do you think it’s possible that it is an antique gem that was flux healed more recently?

 

[jeaniefish]

Gosh, that’s gorgeous! Avondale sleuthing is very interesting.

If you use a loop, can you see the faceting of the stone? If it was from the Edwardian era I would expect it to have a culet or other characteristics of cuts from that era?

I’m going to try to loupe it…as soon as I get Lulu the Flatulent Chiweenie off my lap! Thanks for all of your input. Appreciate it!

 

[jeaniefish]

This is a very astute observation! Rubies have been heated for thousands of years, but fracture-filling (aside from rudimentary oiling) is a relatively new process. I wish they mentioned which type of material was used, like the AGL does with emeralds. Traditionally it was glass, but now we're even seeing resin.

Yes, I was hoping for a bit of insight from GIA report as to the age. I’m making bullet points of everyone’s comments.Now I feel a bit more ready to talk to the jeweler who is holding it for me.
T

 

[jeaniefish]

Thanks to all my PS peeps for your comments. Will post again after I talk to Cyrus.

 

[jeaniefish]

I’m going to try to loupe it…as soon as I get Lulu the Flatulent Chiweenie off my lap! Thanks for all of your input. Appreciate it!

Oops. I forgot that I don’t have the ring. Will ask Cyrus if he has, or will, loupe it.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Do you think it’s possible that it is an antique gem that was flux healed more recently?

Plot twist!

 

[Mreader]

Interesting! I have never seen the GIA qualify a color as "vivid" or mention a trade designation like "pigeon's blood." I wonder if this is new? In any event, I can't speak to the age. But if you're truly curious, I would have someone look at it who specializes in antique jewels and is qualified to certify it as such. Good luck... it's beautiful!!

I also wondered about the Vivid Red and Pigeon's blood on the report! It's a lovely ring. I want to see more pics - I will look through your threads

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I’m so curious if your ruby has a culet … that would be so interesting.

It’s such a beautiful red ….

 

[jeaniefish]

Hi PS Peeps!,
I intended to post this information yesterday but life got in the way.
I spoke to Cyrus on Tuesday. He and his wife own Bird and Bell ( or is it Bell and Bird.? ) in Austin. If you want to see some drool worthy bling, go have a look!
So.. you all saw the GIA report. I’m happy about the color and origin. If I had wanted to invest more in the certification, and find out more about age, it would have gone to another lab. However, not having invested really high $$ in this purchase, and not wanting too (!) , I was focused on making sure it wasn’t a lab stone in an antique mounting. Mission accomplished .

Cyrus’s observations / comments that I was furiously scribbling notes on as he talked:
*It’s probably an older stone , appears to be native cut on bottom and faceted later on
* no hint of orange ( African) , no purple , possibly a hint of pink.
* probably flux heated at a later date ( thanks, @ Dreamer-D for mentioning that!)
*may not havenbeen original to the Edwardian ring but, if not, hasn’t been “ messed with “ in a long time
THIS LAST POINT MIGHT START ANOTHER DISCUSSION!
* old colored gemstones don’t typically have an open culet because an open culet lets color out.
Am I thinking of contacting the original dealer? I don’t think so. The ruby has a glow from within that I just find mesmerizing. Cyrus commented on the glow and the red color, so it isn’t just me. My one complaint is that the ruby isn’t bigger…ha ha.
If the dealer misrepresented the ring, I don’t believe that it was intentional. He deals in high volume and also some stunningly expensive ( at least to me) pieces. Cyrus pointed out that most items( of lower value) can move in and then out again rather quickly.
When I originally thought of selling the ring, it was with the intent of having a larger lab ruby cut by Gary Braun, but I don’t know if this color can be replicated in lab. Anyone experienced with lab rubies ? Are you happy with the color?

So, there’s the latest installment of the saga of my Little Red.
I appreciate everyone of you who have commented.. You all have such gorgeous pieces and a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much for sharing, always!

 

[jeaniefish]

I’m so curious if your ruby has a culet … that would be so interesting.

It’s such a beautiful red ….

You are so kind. I have been following your journey and am gobsmacked by your beautiful “ new” wedding rings, not to mention your gorgeous dress , your weight loss accomplishment, and your plans for renewing your vows with your DH. It doesn’t get more romantic that that!

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

You are so kind. I have been following your journey and am gobsmacked by your beautiful “ new” wedding rings, not to mention your gorgeous dress , your weight loss accomplishment, and your plans for renewing your vows with your DH. It doesn’t get more romantic that that!

I’m sitting here at lunch and your message made my day, thank you!

It’s been a whirlwind for sure… the good kind. I look down and my heart still skips a beat … I can’t believe it happened, I have a diamond, after all this time. And it’s beyond what our wildest dreams could have dreamt. My hubby is such a blessing… if only we could have had a million baby boys, this world needs more gentlemen like him

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

I’m so glad you are keeping your ruby… it’s beautiful, truly… I wish stones could talk, especially in this case. Either way I hope you enjoy her… I know I would be very distracted if she was on my finger

Bell and Bird …. Omg, they have so many
beautiful pieces, I just peeked at their site and they have a Cartier sapphire that looks just like Diana’s

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hi PS Peeps!,
I intended to post this information yesterday but life got in the way.
I spoke to Cyrus on Tuesday. He and his wife own Bird and Bell ( or is it Bell and Bird.? ) in Austin. If you want to see some drool worthy bling, go have a look!
So.. you all saw the GIA report. I’m happy about the color and origin. If I had wanted to invest more in the certification, and find out more about age, it would have gone to another lab. However, not having invested really high $$ in this purchase, and not wanting too (!) , I was focused on making sure it wasn’t a lab stone in an antique mounting. Mission accomplished .

Cyrus’s observations / comments that I was furiously scribbling notes on as he talked:
*It’s probably an older stone , appears to be native cut on bottom and faceted later on
* no hint of orange ( African) , no purple , possibly a hint of pink.
* probably flux heated at a later date ( thanks, @ Dreamer-D for mentioning that!)
*may not havenbeen original to the Edwardian ring but, if not, hasn’t been “ messed with “ in a long time
THIS LAST POINT MIGHT START ANOTHER DISCUSSION!
* old colored gemstones don’t typically have an open culet because an open culet lets color out.
Am I thinking of contacting the original dealer? I don’t think so. The ruby has a glow from within that I just find mesmerizing. Cyrus commented on the glow and the red color, so it isn’t just me. My one complaint is that the ruby isn’t bigger…ha ha.
If the dealer misrepresented the ring, I don’t believe that it was intentional. He deals in high volume and also some stunningly expensive ( at least to me) pieces. Cyrus pointed out that most items( of lower value) can move in and then out again rather quickly.
When I originally thought of selling the ring, it was with the intent of having a larger lab ruby cut by Gary Braun, but I don’t know if this color can be replicated in lab. Anyone experienced with lab rubies ? Are you happy with the color?

So, there’s the latest installment of the saga of my Little Red.
I appreciate everyone of you who have commented.. You all have such gorgeous pieces and a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much for sharing, always!

Sounds like you received some encouraging words and satisfaction... now you're free to enjoy her!!

 

[jeaniefish]

I also wondered about the Vivid Red and Pigeon's blood on the report! It's a lovely ring. I want to see more pics - I will look through your threads

IDK if I ever posted this picture. I don’t have many of Little Red but this is about as nice as I have right now.ATTACH=full]997732[/ATTACH]

 

[jeaniefish]

I’m so glad you are keeping your ruby… it’s beautiful, truly… I wish stones could talk, especially in this case. Either way I hope you enjoy her… I know I would be very distracted if she was on my finger

Bell and Bird …. Omg, they have so many
beautiful pieces, I just peeked at their site and they have a Cartier sapphire that looks just like Diana’s

I know! The bling in their shop is amaaazing! Some are very unusual ( woven hair bracelet! ) and all are gorgeous. Cyrus offered to consign my ring in his shop. I think I’ll give it to him as a down payment on that 10 ct. emerald cut diamond solitaire!

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Do you think it’s possible that it is an antique gem that was flux healed more recently?

100% Nope.

No way.

Who would pull an antique Mogok Ruby from a genuine Edwardian (European) setting and send it to Thailand to have it heated with flux?

Moreover, who would even know how to have that done?

The specialists who do flux heating are in entirely different branch of the trade that has essentially zero interaction with jewelers, gem dealers or end users.

 

[Dr_Diesel]

The treatment level tells you a little bit about its age, as in, when it was mined and cut. The presence of residues points to flux healing, which I believe has been in use since the 80s - about the time the Mong Hsu deposit came into market (if I’m wrong feel free to correct me, but I believe I shouldn’t be off by much).

If I understand correctly, the ring was bought as Edwardian, but a flux healed ruby cannot be from that age, as those are more recent stones. So either the stone has been replaced in the setting, or the entire ring isn’t that old.

100% correct.

This is not an antique stone. It is a newer Mong Hsu-type ruby.

The setting may or may not be an antique.

It's a gorgeous stone and gorgeous ring regardless!