Need Feedback on OEC, Please

[OboeGal]

I ordered a solitaire set with a 1.0ct lab OEC from Ouros, and just received the video of the completed ring for approval before shipping. I really need some more eyes on the stone. To my eyes, it does not look good at all, particularly in the performance of the central facets, but I honestly don't trust either my judgement or the lighting/angle of their videos at this point.

Here is the link to the video (I tried to embed it in this post, but was unable to): http://streamable.com/m26jn0

Please let me know if that link doesn't work.

I was worried about the stone in the initial video of just it that they sent me, which was also outside in shade - it looked similarly rather "dead" in the central facets, and looked nothing like the various example pictures and video of their OECs on the order page on their website - and requested more videos in different lighting and settings. They only sent one, from the exact same angle but indoors instead of outdoors, and it looked better (although in retrospect, that angle was simply not adequate to really gauge it's performance on my hand). I was uncertain, but a couple people on Reddit said they thought it looked very good, so I went ahead and approved it, which I now think was likely a mistake.

I've requested additional videos in different lighting/settings, and this time I will INSIST on multiple that really show the stone in a variety. I'll add them to this thread when I get them. In the meantime, though, I would really love to get some feedback from anyone here on what they think of the stone.

ETA: @tyty333, @0-0-0, @lovedogs, @Inked, I saw you folks tagged in another post about a lab OEC. If any of you could take a minute to look at this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wellll.... I think this company offers low cost options with a business model that means minimal customer support. Their margins likely are not huge. And so I suppose I can understand why they could not/would not accommodate your request for additional images. To some degree we need to be realistic about what we can expect at various price points in this wild new LGD world. Labour is expensive.

You are correct that the cut has issues. It isn't horrible. But its not great. Will it bother you in person? Will you be willing to spend the extra money and time needed to get a stone with the cut qualities you want?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I was uncertain, but a couple people on Reddit said they thought it looked very good, so I went ahead and approved it, which I now think was likely a mistake.

I keep seeing people posting this sentiment here on PS. I don't know who offers help on Reddit -- it ain't me! -- but they seem to be leading people astray.

 

[lovedogs]

Ugh I don't like it at all, I'm sorry. Reddit often gives horrible advice

 

[OboeGal]

Wellll.... I think this company offers low cost options with a business model that means minimal customer support. Their margins likely are not huge. And so I suppose I can understand why they could not/would not accommodate your request for additional images. To some degree we need to be realistic about what we can expect at various price points in this wild new LGD world. Labour is expensive.

You are correct that the cut has issues. It isn't horrible. But its not great. Will it bother you in person? Will you be willing to spend the extra money and time needed to get a stone with the cut qualities you want?

Thank you so much for weighing in - I deeply appreciate it! You're making good points about what is reasonable to expect at this price point. I think the part that really gets to me is the misrepresentation. If you go to the website, on the order page for the OECs as well as those for any of the jewelry they offer that are set with OECs, all of the pictured stones are gorgeous, with absolutely beautiful facet patterns and nice light play. They aren't AVRs, but they are still really lovely, so I expected that that's what I would be getting. It honestly feels like a "bait and switch." I had my hopes up that I would have a stone that I could enjoy, even if not "ideal," for a price that I could afford, but it doesn't look that way. Which is just disappointing, especially on the heels of the ordeal I just had with a different overseas company with a round brilliant three-stone.

You've posed reasonable questions on whether I would be satisfied with this at this price vs. invest more time and quite a bit more money on something better. I have the problem of having Pricescope eyes and taste on a definitely-not-Pricescope budget! I think, in my heart, I would not be happy with this stone, although I'll wait until I see whatever other video they send to confirm that. So.....back to the drawing board for me (or accept that I'll never be able to afford to have an OEC at a nice size).

Thank you again for your input!

 

[OboeGal]

Ugh I don't like it at all, I'm sorry. Reddit often gives horrible advice

Yes, that was pretty much my gut reaction upon seeing this video (and on the first video of the stone only) - "ugh." As I mentioned to Dreamer_D, it's especially frustrating because all the pictures and videos of OECs on their website look so good. It feels very much like a "bait and switch."

Thank you for the feedback, especially at such a busy time for you! I appreciate it.

 

[lovedogs]

Yes, that was pretty much my gut reaction upon seeing this video (and on the first video of the stone only) - "ugh." As I mentioned to Dreamer_D, it's especially frustrating because all the pictures and videos of OECs on their website look so good. It feels very much like a "bait and switch."

Thank you for the feedback, especially at such a busy time for you! I appreciate it.

Yeah it definitely feels shady. Their pics of examples are great, but this is clearly not. I would tell them not to send (unless they already did and I missed it(

 

[OboeGal]

Yeah it definitely feels shady. Their pics of examples are great, but this is clearly not. I would tell them not to send (unless they already did and I missed it(

As far as I know, they have not sent it. In the email with the video, they asked for my approval after looking at the video to send it, and that I confirm the shipping address. I replied that while I'm happy with the ring (setting) itself, I'm not happy with the stone - that the initial concerns I had with it seem verified in the setting and that I should not have listened to the advice I got at the time and approved it. I did ask for additional videos in other lighting to confirm what I'm seeing in this one before making a final decision, and I mentioned that if further videos confirm my thoughts about the stone, I would be willing to purchase just the setting if they refund me for the stone. (I have no idea if they will be amenable to that, but I frankly felt guilty that I approved the stone when I shouldn't have, which then triggered them crafting the setting. I feel like they should get SOME income out of me, at least! I must say, other than not sending me as many videos of the stone itself as I requested, they've been very pleasant, communicative, and responsive, which I have already complimented them for.)

At this point, though, the more I think about it, the more I just want to cancel the whole order and start fresh - or give up on finding a decent OEC in a nice size that I can afford.

ETA: I just checked email and have a reply from them assuring me that they will send a new video, and that I "don't need to worry" about the stone, that it's beautiful and that it's just the light in the prior video, and that they're quite certain that I will "love it." This is all just feeling ickier.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be but I have seen a lab OEC from DiamondRensu in person and it was beautiful. If you end up cancelling this order, maybe look into them as an alternative. Or Alex Park if you would rather stay in the U.S.

 

[OboeGal]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be but I have seen a lab OEC from DiamondRensu in person and it was beautiful. If you end up cancelling this order, maybe look into them as an alternative. Or Alex Park if you would rather stay in the U.S.

Thank you for those suggestions! I did end up sending Alex Park a DM describing what I was looking for just this afternoon. I'll check out DiamondRensu as well!

 

[Dreamer_D]

High volume sellers like that just count in most buyers being unknowledgeable and just seeing it and thinking “Diamond! Sparkly!” To that consumer who may have previously bought frozen spot at zales, this diamond will make them happy. Buyers like us are rare. So their sales tactics, which frustrating, likely work for them.

I also have PS eyes and a smaller budget. I achieve my goals buying on the secondary market. You may find that works best for you too. Buying from a PSer in particular means you have a pre-vetted PS quality stone too.

 

[lovedogs]

As far as I know, they have not sent it. In the email with the video, they asked for my approval after looking at the video to send it, and that I confirm the shipping address. I replied that while I'm happy with the ring (setting) itself, I'm not happy with the stone - that the initial concerns I had with it seem verified in the setting and that I should not have listened to the advice I got at the time and approved it. I did ask for additional videos in other lighting to confirm what I'm seeing in this one before making a final decision, and I mentioned that if further videos confirm my thoughts about the stone, I would be willing to purchase just the setting if they refund me for the stone. (I have no idea if they will be amenable to that, but I frankly felt guilty that I approved the stone when I shouldn't have, which then triggered them crafting the setting. I feel like they should get SOME income out of me, at least! I must say, other than not sending me as many videos of the stone itself as I requested, they've been very pleasant, communicative, and responsive, which I have already complimented them for.)

At this point, though, the more I think about it, the more I just want to cancel the whole order and start fresh - or give up on finding a decent OEC in a nice size that I can afford.

ETA: I just checked email and have a reply from them assuring me that they will send a new video, and that I "don't need to worry" about the stone, that it's beautiful and that it's just the light in the prior video, and that they're quite certain that I will "love it." This is all just feeling ickier.

Yeah, my guess is that you won't "love it" in different lighting, unfortunately

 

[Karl_K]

It suffers from what many original stones it copies do, over reaction to obstruction to some degree.
Put it in a pendant or earring or tiara and it will knock your socks off.
Since many people are used to viewing OEC's with obstruction issues I am not surprised at the comments praising it.
It can be argued that it is historically accurate for much of the OEC production.

 

[evergreen]

I've been away from the forums for a bit but when I ordered OECs from Ouros one or two years ago, he had two different types - a "floral" style which was more expensive, and a newer style which I guess must be a more efficient use of rough. The ones pictured were all "floral," so when he cut me OECs I assumed that's what I was getting. He cut the newer style, I complained about the switch, and he reluctantly but not angrily recut floral ones. The floral ones are pretty in person (also about 6mm). I'd sorta forgotten about that. At the time he was the cheapest source for lab OECs... At this point I don't think I'd use him any more. Alex Park is safer without this kinda sketchy feeling.

 

[LightBright]

I've been away from the forums for a bit but when I ordered OECs from Ouros one or two years ago, he had two different types - a "floral" style which was more expensive, and a newer style which I guess must be a more efficient use of rough. The ones pictured were all "floral," so when he cut me OECs I assumed that's what I was getting. He cut the newer style, I complained about the switch, and he reluctantly but not angrily recut floral ones. The floral ones are pretty in person (also about 6mm). I'd sorta forgotten about that. At the time he was the cheapest source for lab OECs... At this point I don't think I'd use him any more. Alex Park is safer without this kinda sketchy feeling.

Good info. I’d like to hear about more vendors of good OEC cut lab diamonds because Alex’s stuff sells within minutes. Honestly though, I’ve not seen any antique style cut from Alex Park that isn’t well cut.

 

[ecf8503]

CvB has a source too - I had a 5-stone w custom cut OECs made and they are beautiful!

 

[OboeGal]

I've been away from the forums for a bit but when I ordered OECs from Ouros one or two years ago, he had two different types - a "floral" style which was more expensive, and a newer style which I guess must be a more efficient use of rough. The ones pictured were all "floral," so when he cut me OECs I assumed that's what I was getting. He cut the newer style, I complained about the switch, and he reluctantly but not angrily recut floral ones. The floral ones are pretty in person (also about 6mm). I'd sorta forgotten about that. At the time he was the cheapest source for lab OECs... At this point I don't think I'd use him any more. Alex Park is safer without this kinda sketchy feeling.

Oh, interesting! He didn't have that distinction just a month, or even a couple weeks, ago when I placed my order - he only had an order page for one type of OEC, which was titled as flower pattern, and that's what I ordered. Now, I just looked at his site to confirm that my memory was correct, and found that he's completely revamped his website in just the last week or two, and does now have two distinct types of OECs - a "traditional" and a "flower pattern," with the traditional being a little cheaper. Of course, as I go back and forth between the pages for the two types and stare at the pictures of the stones, I'm not seeing a difference that I can really tell between the two types. He's also reduced the options for choosing the color and clarity combo for one's stone.

If you're willing and have the time, I would love for you to take a look at the two videos of just the stone that I got earlier, which I'll link here, as well as the video at the top of this thread of the ring and the new video I got today of the ring. I'm curious if you can tell whether this stone looks more like the "flower pattern" that you held out for, or like the other cut that he tried to pawn off on you.

Here's the first video of just the stone: http://streamable.com/nycmbs
Here's the second video of just the stone (received after expressing my unhappiness with it after the initial video and my request for additional videos in different lighting/angles): http://streamable.com/82zrkk

Of course, the first video of the completed ring is linked at the top of the thread, and I'll link the new video I got of the ring today in another comment below. Thank you in advance!

 

[OboeGal]

Thank you so much, everyone, for the additional feedback and info!

@Karl_K, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise. Your observations are informative and make sense to me - I had the thought that it looked rather like obstruction to me, and that I've seen that in a lot of OECs, but wasn't sure. It's nice to know that my "eyes" are getting better and I'm learning!

@LightBright, I've thought the same about Alex's stones. I ended up sending him a DM yesterday with the specs that I'm looking for, and I'm crossing my fingers that he's got something. He actually just posted and quickly sold a gorgeous 1.0ct OEC four or five days ago with slightly better specs than what I ordered from Ouros, and for a slightly lower price!

@ecf8503, thank you for that info - I will keep CVB in mind as a potential source.

So.......I received (only) one additional video of the ring today, and, well, now I almost think I'm going crazy! Here's the link: https://streamable.com/e7wgmc

My first thought: that can't be the same stone - he switched them out! But of course that doesn't make sense, considering it's been less than a day since the first video. However, it looks pretty different here. I've been staring at it reeeeeeaaaally closely, and here's what I notice: it looks to be filmed in about the same area, based on the background. The lighting is different, though; in the first video, it looked like there was ambient sunlight, although the model was in shade, while in the second, it appears to be overall cloudy conditions, and it appears that the direction of the primary light source is different between the two. Now, here's where I worry that I'm becoming paranoid(!): it looks to me like the model is moving her hand much less, and is being careful to keep her hand tilted a bit to the left, in the direction of the light; is minimizing being face-on to the camera; and is avoiding moving to the right completely. I'm wondering if that is deliberate, to minimize the appearance of the obstruction that Karl_K was referring to. Also - while the stone looked "murky" in the first video, in this one, it doesn't look "murky" but it does seem perhaps hazy/cloudy???

Am I seeing things that aren't there?? Or am I paranoid?? I don't know what to think anymore. And unfortunately, there's a lot of pressure to make a decision at this point, because his policy is that once a stone or a piece has shipped, he doesn't take returns (apparently due to the expense and hassle of getting items back into India through customs). That means if I let him ship it and it really turns out to be a dud, I'm essentially screwed, as I can't return it and I wouldn't be able to sell a ring with a dud stone (nor would I want to try). Uggghhhh........

 

[Karl_K]

Still showing a lot of obstruction in latest vid.
When the table looked hazy in the first vid it was facet glare.
Its when a facet acts as a flat mirror.
Perfectly normal in some lighting and viewing angles with any stone.

 

[Karl_K]

If the dark table area look bugs you and you want a stone that shows it less often then move on.

 

[0515vision]

I agree with you that she's not tilting her hand enough to fully bring out the obstruction.

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you so much, everyone, for the additional feedback and info!

@Karl_K, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise. Your observations are informative and make sense to me - I had the thought that it looked rather like obstruction to me, and that I've seen that in a lot of OECs, but wasn't sure. It's nice to know that my "eyes" are getting better and I'm learning!

@LightBright, I've thought the same about Alex's stones. I ended up sending him a DM yesterday with the specs that I'm looking for, and I'm crossing my fingers that he's got something. He actually just posted and quickly sold a gorgeous 1.0ct OEC four or five days ago with slightly better specs than what I ordered from Ouros, and for a slightly lower price!

@ecf8503, thank you for that info - I will keep CVB in mind as a potential source.

So.......I received (only) one additional video of the ring today, and, well, now I almost think I'm going crazy! Here's the link: https://streamable.com/e7wgmc

My first thought: that can't be the same stone - he switched them out! But of course that doesn't make sense, considering it's been less than a day since the first video. However, it looks pretty different here. I've been staring at it reeeeeeaaaally closely, and here's what I notice: it looks to be filmed in about the same area, based on the background. The lighting is different, though; in the first video, it looked like there was ambient sunlight, although the model was in shade, while in the second, it appears to be overall cloudy conditions, and it appears that the direction of the primary light source is different between the two. Now, here's where I worry that I'm becoming paranoid(!): it looks to me like the model is moving her hand much less, and is being careful to keep her hand tilted a bit to the left, in the direction of the light; is minimizing being face-on to the camera; and is avoiding moving to the right completely. I'm wondering if that is deliberate, to minimize the appearance of the obstruction that Karl_K was referring to. Also - while the stone looked "murky" in the first video, in this one, it doesn't look "murky" but it does seem perhaps hazy/cloudy???

Am I seeing things that aren't there?? Or am I paranoid?? I don't know what to think anymore. And unfortunately, there's a lot of pressure to make a decision at this point, because his policy is that once a stone or a piece has shipped, he doesn't take returns (apparently due to the expense and hassle of getting items back into India through customs). That means if I let him ship it and it really turns out to be a dud, I'm essentially screwed, as I can't return it and I wouldn't be able to sell a ring with a dud stone (nor would I want to try). Uggghhhh........

Nope, that video is strategic. Notice she never has her hand straight to the camera? That's on purpose to avoid you seeing the darkness

 

[evergreen]

It's obstruction, and I personally tolerate obstruction just fine - harder to photograph especially if you have a dark phone case or camera, but in real life, not something I notice or care about. Seeing with one eye (camera) yields worse results than binocular vision because often one eye sees a dark facet but the other sees "on", and your brain prioritizes the bright.

I'm annoyed for you he's still trying to mess with a floral vs yucky-cut dichotomy, but the close up video you attached is in fact his "floral". It's a perfectly fine example of its type - here are mine (2 different stones, both behave the same, 6mm, "lazy Sunday" photo quality so smudges etc ha). I guess the question is... Is this your "type"?

 

[evergreen]

Little "obstruction" series: this is a 4+ct natural antique cushion, so I was looking for "good enough within budget" and not "perfect". It's my everyday ring; I know its performance intimately. So - it looks less obstructed than if I had a dark phone case (mine is pink, basically my skin color), but these photos are taken close-up (3"), moderately close (12"), and then moderately close with a tilt.




Meanwhile what I mostly SEE is a big a$$ bright diamond that makes me feel like a queen.

 

[LightBright]

STILL, I’m not a fan of the diamond I’m seeing. A well cut OEC will be obvious in a semi close up video like this. I’m not a technical expert at all, but even the table on the stones he’s showing you looks way bigger than it should be (it looks like a 60/60 stone?) (or at least 57-58 or more?). The dimensionality of an OEC should not be in the spread (diameter) it needs height (higher crown angle and small table % ) for an authentic look. This one has the form factor of a modern MRB. It should also have crisp faceting in outer facets where this one doesn’t seem to.

I would explain to vendor that you want to purchase a classic OEC cut and this is not it. Does he have anything he can exchange this stone with that is cut like an OEC? He knows what you are talking about, he just might not have the cutter and is hoping you are uninformed.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The proportions are off because they are likely cutting these from MRBs and just cutting the pavilion. Thus the 57-60% table. Which is not usually seen with the short lower halves these stones have. It’s a mosh mash of characteristics.

It doesn’t look too bad in the photos. Again, depends on budget and time constraints whether you want to hunt for better (whether that means better optics or more authentic).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Little "obstruction" series: this is a 4+ct natural antique cushion, so I was looking for "good enough within budget" and not "perfect". It's my everyday ring; I know its performance intimately. So - it looks less obstructed than if I had a dark phone case (mine is pink, basically my skin color), but these photos are taken close-up (3"), moderately close (12"), and then moderately close with a tilt.




Meanwhile what I mostly SEE is a big a$$ bright diamond that makes me feel like a queen.

I don’t consider this to be an overly obstructed stone at all! It looks great.

 

[OboeGal]

Thank you again, everyone, for weighing in. This is all really good feedback and I feel like I'm learning a lot.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

If this was me, I wouldn’t let him ship it because it would never be mind clean for me. Do you lose anything monetarily at this point if you decide not to go forward?

 

[OboeGal]

@Karl_K , @0515vision, @lovedogs, @evergreen, @LightBright, and @Dreamer_D -thank you all again for weighing in. This is all really good feedback and I feel like I'm learning a lot.

I'm really unsure what to do at this point. The original plan with this order was to get a "daily driver" 1.0ct stone in a simple, sturdy setting that had a pretty-enough facet pattern and enough chunky pastel flashes to be enjoyable. I knew for the price that I wasn't going to get something like one of Jonathon's lab AVRs or transitionals. (Which I would dearly, dearly love - especially one of his transitionals!) One of my very favorite rings, which was my first exposure in person to an antique cut, is my paternal grandmother's engagement ring, which is a sweet little filigree ring with a small authentic original transitional cut stone in it. It also doesn't have the cut precision we as Pricescopers would consider optimal, and I can see in it now some of the obstruction that Karl_K is talking about, but I still adore it - it has the most gorgeous flashes of chunky rainbows that give my little bitty mined AVR a run for it's money! But - it's a very small stone - around 0.3-0.4ct - set in this lovely setting with all kinds of presence and detailing. Would I enjoy a similar stone that is quite a bit larger and set so simply, where all the "flaws" in cut will be more obvious, in the same way? I really don't know if I would - if the lack of cut precision would overshadow the stone's assets for me. @evergreen, the stones you got from him look very nice in your pictures, and if my stone were to look like that to me in person, I think I would be pretty content with it for the price and purpose. (And I agree with Dreamer - your cushion is gorgeous!) But, I'm not convinced from these videos that my stone is as nice as yours from him.

Then there is the fact that this second video feels shady to me - that they're manipulating what I see to minimize the stone's flaws now that they know I have concerns about it. I really don't like to give a business that behaves that way my money. It's disappointing behavior from them - up until now, other than not sending me as many videos as I'd like, they've been very pleasant, clear, and communicative, and the work on the setting looks good to me in the video.

If I would be able to return the ring, the decision would be pretty easy - just have them ship it, and if it's not good enough for the purpose and price to my eyes in person, I would just return it and use the money to get a stone from Alex or start the savings fund for another source or for a (much smaller) custom stone from Jonathon. But that's not an option, so if that chunk of money is just gone, I don't know that I could ever be able to save enough to buy another stone.

(In case it's not obvious by now, I'm one of those people that agonizes and struggles with every decision almost as if they're all life-and-death, LOL!)