Need help choosing between H VS1 or G VS2 on Bluenile

[1fookntitefd]

I finally received Ideal Scope images for the 2 James Allen diamonds this afternoon. This is what the representative at James Allen had to say about both diamonds:

"Thank you for your patience while waiting for the gemologist inspection and idealscope images of diamonds 321535 and 325985. You'll find the requested images attached to this email for your review.

Both of these diamonds are very beautiful and come highly recommended. Diamond 321535 has excellent fire, brilliance, and scintillation, which balances throughout the entire diamond. It possesses an excellent cut, a true "H" color, and faces eye clean. Your diamonds are virtually identical, but this one performs just slightly stronger. Diamond 325985 is a close second for light performance, has a true "G" color, and faces eye clean.

You can go with either of these diamonds and I know that you'll be more than satisfied with how beautiful and lively your diamond is. I would encourage you to go with diamond 321535 simply because the gemologist found it to be slightly brighter and because it has a better price."

In sum they are recommending the H color because it is more brilliant and is a better price.

Attached are the Ideal Scope images for the H/VS1 and the G/VS2.

Any thoughts?

 

[teobdl]

Both look great! Many prefer the fatter arrows of the H VS1. I think you've found your winner.

 

[Lorelei]

I finally received Ideal Scope images for the 2 James Allen diamonds this afternoon. This is what the representative at James Allen had to say about both diamonds:

"Thank you for your patience while waiting for the gemologist inspection and idealscope images of diamonds 321535 and 325985. You'll find the requested images attached to this email for your review.

Both of these diamonds are very beautiful and come highly recommended. Diamond 321535 has excellent fire, brilliance, and scintillation, which balances throughout the entire diamond. It possesses an excellent cut, a true "H" color, and faces eye clean. Your diamonds are virtually identical, but this one performs just slightly stronger. Diamond 325985 is a close second for light performance, has a true "G" color, and faces eye clean.

You can go with either of these diamonds and I know that you'll be more than satisfied with how beautiful and lively your diamond is. I would encourage you to go with diamond 321535 simply because the gemologist found it to be slightly brighter and because it has a better price."

In sum they are recommending the H color because it is more brilliant and is a better price.

Attached are the Ideal Scope images for the H/VS1 and the G/VS2.

Any thoughts?

Both are excellent images but for me, the H is the winner, I prefer the Idealscope image due to the quality of the optical symmetry, I can imagine from the gemologist's opinion and looking at the images that the H would edge out the G for performance but both are certainly very fine diamonds indeed.

It sounds to me as if congratulations are in order, very well done - you should soon be enjoying a stunning diamond!

 

[1fookntitefd]

Both look great! Many prefer the fatter arrows of the H VS1. I think you've found your winner.

Thanks teobdl. Question though: in your May 30 post to this thread you made a comment about how this stone has fat arrows and is shallow and can potentially cause obstruction. Does the ideal scope image change your opinion?

Also, where can I learn a little more about the size of the hearts/arrows and how it affects the visual/light performance of the stone? Are fatter arrows generally more or less desirable?

 

[teobdl]

The gemologist saw the diamond and loved it so no issues there.

Fatter arrows = fewer, broader flashes of light; skinny arrows = more, sparkly flashes of light
One is not better than the other.
In smaller diamonds, I think it's potentially much more of a problem, particularly if optical symmetry is not great.
Your brain will only register a flash if the flash is big enough for the eye to see. A small diamond with very skinny arrows has the potential to have more flashes so small that the eye won't pick up the small flashes ("ineffectual virtual facets").

But with a big diamond, even with skinnier arrows, the flashes are bigger because all of the facets are bigger. Having flashes so small that the eye doesn't pick them up isn't really an issue for big diamonds with arrows on the skinner side.

**Edited for dumb post without thinking: You'd see additional black areas under the table on the idealscope if obstruction were an issue. The idealscope shows no unwanted obstruction. The issue really is that the lower pavilion coupled (an average!) w/ the lower crown meant that a few facets may actually be too low and allow for some unwanted obstruction. Not the case here.

 

[1fookntitefd]

Ok. Going back to the original post, so far I have 4 diamonds I'm looking at:

1. Diamond #1: Blue Nile
2.14 carat
H Color
VS1
Signature Ideal Cut (1.0 total visual performance on Holloway Cut Advisor)
No Flourescence

http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP&track=NavEngStartWithDia#diamonds_forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP|builder=BYOR|pid=LD03912479

Diamond #2: Blue Nile
Diamond #2:
2.06 carat
G Color
VS2
Ideal Cut (1.7 total visual performance on Holloway Cut Advisor)
No Flourescence

http://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-diamond-ring?forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP&track=NavEngStartWithDia#diamonds_forceStep=DIAMONDS_STEP|builder=BYOR|pid=LD04265239

Diamond #3: James Allen
2 carat
H Color
VS1
Ideal Cut (0.7 on Holloway)
No Flourescence
SKU 321535

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-321535

Diamond #4: James Allen
2 carat
G Color
VS2
Ideal Cut (0.8 on Holloway)
No Flourescence
SKU 325985

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-325985

I am still undecided. Since this is a big purchase, I am going to take some time to think about it but so far, I am leaning towards the James Allen H color VS1. I am still considering the H Color VS1 from Blue Nile becausebigger and is probably a "better value". However, the OCD in me does not like the BN logo engraved in the girdle. Also, I feel more comfortable buying from James Allen because I can see images of the diamond and also have Ideal Scope images. Blue Nile has a GCAL certificate for the signature ideal cut but does not provide pictures or ideal scope images. Even though they have a 30-day return policy, I feel like it's too much of a "trust me" type transaction. On the flip side, I get really good rewards from my Chase Sapphire Preferred credit card if I go with Blue Nile...

Anyone favor one vendor over the other?

 

[1fookntitefd]

Thought about it some more last night and I think that it's now between the H VS1 on Blue Nile vs. the H VS1 on James Allen. The Blue Nile stone appears to be a better value because it is 2.14 carat, appears to have fewer visible inclusions, is a "signature ideal cut" and is priced at $28,701. The James Allen stone is 2.01 carat and priced at $28,840. Blue Nile does not provide ideal scope images but has a GCAL whereas I have a Ideal Scope for the James Allen stone. The BN stone scored a 1.0 on Holloway Cut Advisor and the JA stone scored 0.7.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Has anyone had experience bargaining down the price with James Allen? This is a major purchase and I could really go one way or another at this point.

 

[1fookntitefd]

Any final thoughts between the two H colors? I'm getting reading to pull the trigger soon but its a lot of money and am getting a little nervous... I want to make sure that I am getting the most bang for the buck. On paper the BN diamond appears to be a better deal than the JA stone....is there something I am missing and a reason I should go with the JA over the BN?

 

[luvdajules]

Just a quick post, going to bed...I think you could chose either stone and it would be great, but if I had to chose one over the other, given the price is about the same, I'd go for the slightly larger BN stone. I prefer the Signature brand and the 0.2mm size difference, and the upgrade policy is the same for both BN and JA (must be twice the price for 100% credit). As a mind clean issue, I prefer that the BN stone isn't right at a threshold weight, like just 2.0 ct or 2.01 ct. maybe just a quirk of mine (as the proportions look great, just 4% in the girdle for the JA stone). So, that's my 2 cents. Good luck! Please come back with the setting and maybe some hand shots!

 

[pmsomani]

321535 of JA
- Average Diameter is arround 8.11 with 2.01ct weight, this cause near about -2.0 weight ratio
- It seems to have lower light return, and Girdle is of 4%

325985 of JA
- Average Diameter is arround 8.15 with 2.01 ct weight this cause near about -0.2 weight ration
- It seems to have better light return even with slightly higher Pavilion (0.4° more than another)

Conclusion :
325985 is bigger diamond in same carat with better performance.

 

[1fookntitefd]

Update: Still haven't pulled the trigger on either stone as I am having an appraiser review the GIA certificates, GCAL Images, and Ideal Scopes for both H/VS1s.

Newbie question though: Do both stones qualify as a "Hearts and Arrows" Diamond?

 

[tyty333]

No, neither stone is designated as H&A stone so I don't think either of them are. You can get an H&A viewer
(before the stone is set) to see how the symmetry of the hearts looks.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds

You can see a small H&A type image for the Blue Nile stone on the Optical Light Performance Profile where it
says "Bottom (Pavilion)"

 

[teobdl]

I would get the BN diamond because it's cheaper, bigger, and you arguably have even better documentation of its cut quality with the GCAL optical symmetry analysis. I say arguably because I have no idea their methods for taking those images. Despite no idealscope, that angle/proportion combo with that level of documented optical symmetry (you can zoom in on the GCAL report) will almost definitely not have any leakage.

Did you ask both JA and BN for all possible discounts?

One additional note: JA pays for return shipping if you need it anytime throughout the return period. With BN, you have to pay return shipping and insurance fees.

 

[1fookntitefd]

I would get the BN diamond because it's cheaper, bigger, and you arguably have even better documentation of its cut quality with the GCAL optical symmetry analysis. I say arguably because I have no idea their methods for taking those images. Despite no idealscope, that angle/proportion combo with that level of documented optical symmetry (you can zoom in on the GCAL report) will almost definitely not have any leakage.

Did you ask both JA and BN for all possible discounts?

One additional note: JA pays for return shipping if you need it anytime throughout the return period. With BN, you have to pay return shipping and insurance fees.

JA would not give me a discount beyond the 1.5% wire discount.

BN maintains that if I find a diamond of "equal quality" for a lower price, they would match it....

I have a Chase Sapphire Preferred Card (see my other post) which gives 6x bonus points for shopping at Blue Nile. Based on the math, I would be getting approximately $2,800 for travel (hotel, flights, and car rental). Therefore, I am leaning towards BN but will still think it through the weekend...

 

[1fookntitefd]

The G from BN is still my favorite.


If I had to choose a JA diamond, I'd choose the G. The H worries me a bit with it's shallowness + very fat arrows = high potential for obstruction (going dark in the center when you're looking at it kind of close). Definitely get an idealscope if you're interested in it.


I agree, looks like there is potential for obstruction ( darkening due to head shadow) looking at the proportions and some factors I can see in the image, I would definitely want an Idealscope image for this one and out of the 2, my preference is also the G.

Interesting. I spoke to "diamond specialists" at both Blue Nile and at James Allen and they both recommended going with the H/VS1's. Blue Nile indicates that they really put their name behind their "signature ideal cut" and James Allen said that the H cut was a better diamond as well. I am still waiting for Ideal Scopes from James Allen. They said that they do not do ASETS unless it is for speciality type cuts. Blue Nile does not provide ASETs or any other report except for a GCAL certificate if you buy from their signature ideal line. Here is the GCAL report for the original H VS1 Signature Ideal cut from Blue Nile. Can anyone provide any opinions on it?

personally if that was my price range, I would buy this

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063787.htm

Better or equal specs from a more reputable dealer with more documentation. Scores a 1.2 on the HCA scale.

I was at whiteflash in person this past week and was looking at expert selection lines and an ACA. They all were absolutely phenomenal in person

I thought that H was a great color, and changed my purchase from an I to an H. I also compared an H to a G, and wouldn't pay the price difference.

I think whiteflash's return policy, upgrade policy, customer service and tremendous amount of documentation and detail is second to none.

I was previously looking at Bluenile but am going with whiteflash after seeing them in person.

I highly recommend considering the stone I linked. Another word of advice, you can negotiate with them a bit. Ask me how I know

Is there a reason why this diamond is so relatively expensive compared to the Blue Nile and James Allen diamonds I am looking at? Is it just because it is a "cut above" and "hearts and arrows" diamond? Would anyone rather have this than the BN or JA diamonds I am looking at and if so why?

 

[chamois]

My pick would be the BN 2.14 because of the smaller table (higher crown) and larger size.

 

[teobdl]

Id honestly be choosing between the BN and that whiteflash diamond. Those are some sweet chase points. If the points weren't in the equation then absolutely I'd get the WF diamond. Tremendous price.

 

[Lorelei]

Just to further muddy the waters , I am going to bring up a couple of other points to consider before the deal is done. BN don't offer any upgrade or buy back packages with the purchase of one of their diamonds whereas Whiteflash do. Just something to think about whether the points you could get with the BN purchase would be a better deal for the future than what WF have to offer, especially should you ever want to get a bigger diamond. Also the WF diamond is a branded h&a, the BN diamond is probably very well cut but we have no way of knowing the quality of the overall cut precision. Sorry to further complicate things but I just wanted to add my thoughts.

 

[1fookntitefd]

Is H&A make a real difference in the brilliance of a stone or is it just branding nonsense? The same WF stone (H vs1) is notably pricier than a normal non branded stone. Either way, it's still a beautiful stone. All very tough choices.

 

[Lorelei]

Is H&A make a real difference in the brilliance of a stone or is it just branding nonsense? The same WF stone (H vs1) is notably pricier than a normal non branded stone. Either way, it's still a beautiful stone. All very tough choices.

Yes, the crisp optical symmetry necessary for h&a patterning can make a difference in the performance/ brilliance of a diamond due to it fine tuning the optical performance of a diamond - if we are using branded h&a as we know them here as examples. If you think of the facets of a diamond acting like tiny mirrors, the sharper the precision and alignment of those facet mirrors - as I will refer to them for the purposes of this post- the better their ability to receive light and bounce it back up to the viewer's eyes. These little facet mirrors grab and make good use of all the light available so the viewer sees a crisp contrast pattern, primary colours galore and spectacular shows of scintillation, the effect where the facets turn on and off sharply so the diamond pops and sparkles. Also bear in mind, to cut a diamond to this level of precision results in more wastage of the rough, this can reduce profits when a diamond is cut for beauty rather than weight, hence one of the reasons why these stones are sold at a premium. Many consumers are happy to reach a particular carat weight and aren't bothered or are even aware that diamonds can be so spectacular when cutting for beauty is the priority! It's also important to be aware that because a diamond shows a good level of optical symmetry that it doesn't necessarily follow that it's going to perform well, the overall cut precision and proportioning also play a huge part. Conversely, you don't need to have h&a patterning to have a beautiful stone. I would also say to keep in mind that often with branded h&a such as WF ACA, Infinity, Brian Gavin SI and so on, that these companies offer lifetime upgrade policies and buy back programs as well as various other benefits, so it's up to the individual really, you can buy the vendor as well as the diamond so to speak, these guys stand behind their products.

I hope this gives you some points to ponder and it helps you in your purchasing decision!

 

[teobdl]

Just wanted to echo Lorelei. I think long term if you do consider an upgrade, WF is the better company.
Also, for insurance, if the ring is ever lost or damaged, they must replace "like kind and quality"--this would include the brands. I think most would agree that ACA is a better brand than BN Signature.

 

[1fookntitefd]

Man oh man...you guys are making this tough for me...(in a good way though).

 

[Lorelei]

Man oh man...you guys are making this tough for me...(in a good way though).

Lots to think about!

 

[teobdl]

If it were my money, I'd absolutely get the WhiteFlash diamond. I think most on PS would do the same in a heart beat.

 

[tweeter8177]

I personally would get the Whiteflash diamond, hands down!! I realize you aren't sold on AGS certs but I think of them as the premium graders because they grade on light performance and the Ideal cut grade is much more stringent than GIA Excellent. I still kick myself for not seeking out an AGS diamond when I upgraded a year ago!! I have learned so much more on PS in the last year! Also, the WF upgrade policy is the clear winner of the 3 company's. I am sure you think this will be a forever stone and hopefully it will be, but never say never! I have now upgraded 2 times!

My second choice would be JA because the idealscope tells all! You don't have that with BN which is riskier in my opinion. You have some great options! Good luck with your selection!

 

[Sophie2788]

Whiteflash any day!
I have owned an I VS2 from whiteflash and it was impeccable the best diamond id ever seen in my life and yes I've seen a lot of GIA xxx with ideal cut parameters before at a jeweller when I took my stone to have it appraised and my stone sh*t all over the GIA stone, even the jeweller asked where I got such a beautiful diamond, I use to love going in to other jewellery stores and parading my stone around, now my stone was only a .611 ct I VS2 a 2+ ct ACA wow that is one lucky LUCKY lady, I can post pics in several lighting conditions if you like

 

[Sophie2788]

Oh yeah the ags certificate with those is a platinum light performance certificate, less than 1% of diamonds in the world are cut to such precision and man oh man can you tell! I actually am uncomfortable purchasing a GIA diamond unless I could see it first AGS / ACA I have no doubt it will be as beautiful as it gets plus whiteflash upgrade / buy back program is the best I've come across, they back their stones 100% I've never ever seen or heard someone say I'm dissapointed in my ACA, I have seen several people say they were dissapointed in a BN stone

 

[1fookntitefd]

Yes I would definitely be interested in pictures!

I am a little hesitant buying "branded" diamonds because of such a huge price premium. The WF diamond listed earlier is an H VS2 but is nearly as expensive as an H VS1. An H VS1 from White Flash is well over $30k whereas a GIA H VS1 from Blue Nile or James Allen is around $28,xxx...

I also heard that even though AGS has stricter grading parameters than GIA for cut, they have looser parameters on color and clarity. Can anyone chime in on this?

 

[Sophie2788]

I personally absolutely think it's worth the premium here are a few reasons why
1 all pics are provided and if you email them they will take more with no hesitation or delay.
The service is exceptional both in buying/returning/everything they are not happy until you are.
Honestly the H&A cut will blow any woman away, you stated earlier about your friends E rings being GIA you put your stone next to those and more than likely it will kick them out of the ball park, the cut is something that should be a main priority for you I personally would rather a .6ct I vs ACA than a 1ct G/H stone from blue nile or James Allen due to the fact I've seen it myself cut is not something you compromise on, you have the piece of mind knowing they will buy back your stone and or trade it for one of equal or more value. Other places you need to spend double. Now if your lady decided she wanted a 2.5ct and wanted a G colour later on you can do it with white flash no hassle other vendors you need to go bigger and higher to double the cost, I can't comment on the colour however I'll attach a pic of my I stone and this is a perfect representation on how it faced up all the time, you know as well whiteflash has a 30 day return if I were you I'd ring up or live chat get the stone (see if they can slightly bargain on it they probably will provide a small discount that puts you closer to the other stones) order the stone and check it out I would bet my E ring budget that you would love it. I think if your order the other two stones your risking getting something that doesn't live up to the ACA stones and possibly disappointment. However I suppose you don't know what your missing, that's why I think you need to see these ACA stones in person, also blue nile signature & James Allen signature are not as finely cut as a whiteflash or BGD stone so no I would not call them H & A .

 

[Sophie2788]

Ok now this is an I ACA in normal lighting: I was standing under a garage roof in the shade,
It's placed next to FG melee stones a H in the whiteflash cut would be spectacular no doubt about it