Need opinion! Ex girlfreind involved!

[Blenheim]

So what if she thinks it''s you? I wouldn''t care about her opinion. And since she''s such a drama queen, I''d hope that other people would take whatever she might say about you with a grain of salt.

If she keeps calling, he can just ignore and ignore. (And I hope he''ll do so.) Hopefully if she gets no gratification from her actions, she''ll stop. And another thought -- I have no idea if this is possible -- can you block certain phone numbers, the same way that you can block IMs from a certain screenname? Would your BF be willing to do this?

If she does anything physical, just call the cops. I''d personally find that pretty satisfying.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/9/2006 2:18:19 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

To play devil''s advocate a little here:

Maybe he lied because he was backed in a corner and didn''t know what to say. I''m sure he knew that if he said yes, she would be livid.

Bad devil''s advocate......in fact, I don''t even see that this could qualify for devil''s advocate.

1. Yes, I''m sure he did know that she''d be mad....maybe even livid. But that mad couldn''t compare to how *exponentially* mad she is now at having been lied to....and the lie is worse than the original issue. How is that making anything better?

2. If he considers this adequate justification for lying, then how is she going to trust him going forward? Any time he''s faced with something that might potentially piss her off, his first instinct is going to be "oh, I''ll just lie"? That''s a huge problem.

If you are mature enough to enter into a lifelong relationship, you have to know going in that you will inevitably have times where you''ll piss each other off. Fact of life. Lying to your S/O isn''t a reasonable way to handle an uncomfortable situation, and it''s not conducive to the long-term health/survival of the relationship.

Date: 3/9/2006 2:18:19 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

We don''t really know how she approached him with this and if she seemed very threatening he probably just took the easy way out for the time being.

How she approached him on this isn''t really relevant. Whether she was sweet about it or whether she chased him around with a pitchfork......neither justifies lying. People will get over little things they get mad about....they always do. But those things are much easier to overcome than a breach of trust.

It''s just foolish to solve a "misdemeanor" level issue by applying a "felony" (lying) solution.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/9/2006 2:27:42 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae
I''m just saying that in a heat moment or what I like to call a ''deer caught in headlights'' moment, not everyone thinks about the consequences of their actions and what they should do. They just do the first thing that pops in their head, even though they realize later on that it''s not right. And once that''s realized, it''s hard to take back what''s already been done. I''m sure everyone has their own perspective on this, but I don''t really think it''s immature or anything. Just human nature.

That''s exactly why it''s such a problem. Because that''s his first instinct....to lie. If you know that about your s/o, how can you trust him?

My husband doesn''t have to "think about it" to realize lying isn''t right or a great choice. In this situation, my husband would likely stammer and not answer rather than lie.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/9/2006 3:03:06 PM
Author: stacyQ
I already talked with him, he seems to understand that what he did wasn''t cool, and if the sitch were reversed he would have freaked (probably worse than I did, my last boyfriend didn''t cheat on me like his ex did on him!) I just wanted opinions from you guys because I am still dealing with the mental aftereffects of all of this.

Yep - that''s my point. Once the seed of doubt is planted.....well, there''s no putting Pandora back into the box. It''s really hard to rebuild trust, and lack of trust is just fatal to relationships.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/9/2006 2:44:09 PM
Author: esguy27

But pretty much every reply to the original posting ignores the fact that what she did was a violation of privacy.

In my opinion, unless you have some proof that something seriously bad is going on behind your back, you shouldn''t do things like check phone records, log into email accounts that aren''t yours, etc. It''s just not right. From what I can tell, all she knew is that her bf was not answering calls from a number that she didn''t recognize.

I respectfully disagree.

The "checking up" wasn''t done a) just because, b) because I''ve been burned in the past so now I''m going to be pre-emptive, c) because I''m immature, d) because I have inherent trust issues even when I have absolutely NO basis for concern. It''s not as though there was no "red flag" or "alarm" moment, and she spontaneously decided to begin checking on him.

Nope.....it was prompted by repeated calls from the same unknown number. Calls that he wouldn''t answer in her presence. Calls that he didn''t say "oh, that''s so-and-so''s number, and I just don''t want to talk to him/her."

Look, if my husband got a random call or two from a number I didn''t recognize, no problem. If he got 20 calls from the same number...none of which he''d answer....and he didn''t offer any anecdotal reason for not answering calls from that number? That would be grounds for suspicion for me, and once that seed is planted, you have to get confirmation that your suspicions are either unfounded or dead-on.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

aljdewey, these are all your opinions. Yes, lying is wrong. Is everyone a saint who never lies? No. If you had read my other posts, you would understand that I believe BOTH parties were wrong in this situation, and I am in no way trying to excuse his behavior. I'm simply giving another perspective so that people don't automatically jump to a certain conclusion that may or may not be accurate.

Just because he may have panicked and lied in the process, does not mean that he is a flat out liar that should not be trusted. Yes, it does AFFECT the amount of trust in the relationship, but one must not judge someone by one mistake. If there were perhaps a harsher truth, such as actual cheating, then that's the time to mark him. All we know right now is that he said what he shouldn't have, and he seems regretful according to StaceyQ's update.

I am the kind of person who has a completely open mind and looks at situations from all angles. I feel that you were intent on burning him at the stake without knowing all the factors involved in the situation. If perhaps she did chase him around with a pitchfork, I can almost guarantee he didn't think about doing what's best in the situation. Not everyone is that logical under pressure. Some people respond differently by how they're approached. You are scrutinizing a lot of comments I made and responding with what YOU think is right and would probably do in the situation. However, what you may do or think, is not what someone else may think or do. It's dependant on the person involved and we do not know anything about this man other than what StaceyQ has told us. She knows him better than all of us and although she is upset and worried (rightfully so), she has stated that they have talked about this and she has faith in their relationship.

ETA: No hard feelings, I just felt a little attacked by you.

 

[FireGoddess]

I tend to agree with what Alj is saying here.

When DH and I were dating, his ex called him up (while we were having dinner!) basically to re-establish communications and ''hey I heard you were single and thought maybe we could try again...'' kinda thing. He told her he didn''t know where she would get such info, as he and I were seriously dating and about to move in together. She apologized for bothering us and said she would never call again. Now, if she insisted on pursuing the matter, I would have expected DH to respect my feelings and tell her to take a hike and lose his phone number.

The problem in this situation is first that she''s calling all the time. If they''re ''just friends'', that''s okay but then WHY HIDE the fact that (a) she''s calling, (b) he''s returning the calls????? If ''we''re all just friends here'' then it should be out in the open, and it''s not. Which makes me wonder whether or not he DOES realize that she wants to get back together with him. If they''re just friends, again, it should be out in the open. His lying just made it worse and she has every right to snoop to get at the truth, particularly if point blank questioning yielded FIBS in return.

I hope he''s truly sorry and I hope he ''gets clean'' for the sake of your relationship! If he values it, he will do so.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:30:17 PM
Author: FireGoddess


If 'we're all just friends here' then it should be out in the open, and it's not. Which makes me wonder whether or not he DOES realize that she wants to get back together with him. If they're just friends, again, it should be out in the open.

Being openly "just friends" isn't much better a situation, IMO. Because of the past relationship and what she knows about how the ex feels towards her boyfriend, is she really going to believe they are really just friends?? Some would say no and some would be just as upset and untrusting. This episode is really a hiccup in their relationship, IMO. Her boyfriend and his ex being openly just friends might prolong her current emotions or make them worse, which will only lead to the destruction of their relationship and the ex wins. If he hasn't actually done wrong (such as cheating), then I think he deserves a second chance to make things right. I would hate to see a relationship end over one lie about whether or not he was talking to someone. I would rather see it end over whether or not he slept with someone and lied about it. Besides, she doesn't even really know the content of the conversations. When my ex used to call me, the only words he got out of me were one word answers such as yes, no, maybe and uh-huh (even for as long as 30 minutes. He would just keep on talking). I was too nice to hang up on him, but I wasn't nice enough to have a full on conversation with him. How do we know he isn't doing the same?

ETA: And before you even say it, yes, I did return a few calls just because he would keep calling and I wanted to know what the hell was so important he had to try a million times. I think there's way more to this story than we know. Perhaps more than even StaceyQ knows.

I think maybe StaceyQ just needed some assurance that she wasn't overreacting. I personally think that she was right to be concerned and upset, but I probably would've done things a little differently.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:44:38 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

Date: 3/9/2006 10:30:17 PM
Author: FireGoddess


If 'we're all just friends here' then it should be out in the open, and it's not. Which makes me wonder whether or not he DOES realize that she wants to get back together with him. If they're just friends, again, it should be out in the open.

Being openly 'just friends' isn't much better a situation, IMO. Because of the past relationship and what she knows about how the ex feels towards her boyfriend, is she really going to believe they are really just friends?? Some would say no and some would be just as upset and untrusting. This episode is really a hiccup in their relationship, IMO. Her boyfriend and his ex being openly just friends might prolong her current emotions or make them worse, which will only lead to the destruction of their relationship and the ex wins. If he hasn't actually done wrong (such as cheating), then I think he deserves a second chance to make things right. I would hate to see a relationship end over one lie about whether or not he was talking to someone. I would rather see it end over whether or not he slept with someone and lied about it. Besides, she doesn't even really know the content of the conversations. When my ex used to call me, the only words he got out of me were one word answers such as yes, no, maybe and uh-huh (even for as long as 30 minutes. He would just keep on talking). I was too nice to hang up on him, but I wasn't nice enough to have a full on conversation with him. How do we know he isn't doing the same?

ETA: And before you even say it, yes, I did return a few calls just because he would keep calling and I wanted to know what the hell was so important he had to try a million times. I think there's way more to this story than we know. Perhaps more than even StaceyQ knows.

I'm not disagreeing here. I don't think it's wise to be friends AT ALL with the ex, particularly for damn sure an ex that wants to rekindle something. But some people can be just friends and nothing more, and if that's the case here, then it should be an out-in-the-open friendship. It's clearly not, which means it ain't kosher to me. (And chill, no need to pre-emptively defend yourself, I'm not attacking here.)

ETA: Stacey, I don't want to read up through all the thread, but I know you did discuss this somewhat with your BF. I do agree with Alj's thing above about Pandora's box being opened and dealing with the mental aftermath now...I hope you convey(ed) to him how much this hurt you, even moreso than it occurred, the fact that it was hidden and you were lied to. Not a good foundation for a long term relationship....and I hope that he learned from it.

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:44:38 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

Besides, she doesn''t even really know the content of the conversations. When my ex used to call me, the only words he got out of me were one word answers such as yes, no, maybe and uh-huh (even for as long as 30 minutes. He would just keep on talking). I was too nice to hang up on him, but I wasn''t nice enough to have a full on conversation with him. How do we know he isn''t doing the same?


ETA: And before you even say it, yes, I did return a few calls just because he would keep calling and I wanted to know what the hell was so important he had to try a million times. I think there''s way more to this story than we know. Perhaps more than even StaceyQ knows.

I am in the unfortunate situation of being in a class with an ex right now, and we have to interact in that context. He''s also done things like send me emails inviting me to parties at his house (like I really want to play beer pong with him

). I don''t return emails and I do the yes-no-maybe type thing with him. I''m also very open with my BF about our interactions. And even if I didn''t tell him about it and he found numbers on my phone or emails in my inbox, I''d probably say something about how he just isn''t taking the hint and roll my eyes. I would never lie, and I''m personally not quite sure why her BF would lie if all of the interactions were like this.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:59:49 PM
Author: FireGoddess

I''m not disagreeing here. I don''t think it''s wise to be friends AT ALL with the ex, particularly for damn sure an ex that wants to rekindle something. But some people can be just friends and nothing more, and if that''s the case here, then it should be an out-in-the-open friendship. It''s clearly not, which means it ain''t kosher to me. (And chill, no need to pre-emptively defend yourself, I''m not attacking here.)

In this aspect, I agree. Being just friends should be practically impossible considering the ex''s feelings towards him and the way their relationship ended. This is why she totally had a right to be upset and suspicious.

Don''t worry, I didn''t think you were attacking and I wasn''t trying to defend myself to you at all. Perhaps you are reading my post with the wrong tone??

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Date: 3/9/2006 11:05:16 PM
Author: Blenheim
I would never lie, and I''m personally not quite sure why her BF would lie if all of the interactions were like this.

I''m not sure anyone will ever know why, except him.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 3/9/2006 11:06:01 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

Date: 3/9/2006 10:59:49 PM
Author: FireGoddess

I'm not disagreeing here. I don't think it's wise to be friends AT ALL with the ex, particularly for damn sure an ex that wants to rekindle something. But some people can be just friends and nothing more, and if that's the case here, then it should be an out-in-the-open friendship. It's clearly not, which means it ain't kosher to me. (And chill, no need to pre-emptively defend yourself, I'm not attacking here.)

In this aspect, I agree. Being just friends should be practically impossible considering the ex's feelings towards him and the way their relationship ended. This is why she totally had a right to be upset and suspicious.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were attacking and I wasn't trying to defend myself to you at all. Perhaps you are reading my post with the wrong tone??

Okay good. Sometimes it's hard to tell. I guess I read the "before you even say it" part as pre-emptive defense against perceived hostility.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Oh, ha ha, I just said that because I was SURE someone would say something about that.

 

[glitterata]

I think Stermag has remarkable insight and gave excellent, excellent advice. If I were in your situation, I''d listen to her. Stermag, you wouldn''t happen to be a psychologist, are you? Or someone who''s had a lot of therapy? You sound so sane.

Al J, clearly YOU wouldn''t be able to get past the lying thing. You and your husband do well to treat each other with scrupulous honesty. But not everybody is like that. Some people have other ways of dealing with each other that work for them.

As far as sneaking goes, I don''t see anything so wrong about reading phone bills that you both have access to. It''s one thing if you sneak into his email or use his password to get into accounts or read his diary--that would be terrible. But when you''re paying the phone bill, he knows you can see the numbers on it. Why shouldn''t you read them? Getting your friend from out of town to call the ex was perhaps unnecessarily sneaky, though; there are more direct, cleaner ways to obtain that information. Still, it doesn''t seem criminal to me, just likely to make him sneak around even more if he finds out you did it.

In your situation, I might have said something like, "I noticed a few phone calls from area code XXX. That''s where Cruella lives, isn''t it? I respect that you might have some loose ends to tie up or things you need to talk to her about. That''s okay with me, and I don''t want you to think you need to hide it from me. In fact, I''d be happy to talk about it if you want." Of course, you should only say that if it''s true--if it IS okay with you, and you WOULD be happy to talk to him about it.

As for poking around on the internet looking for info about his ex, that''s probably a terrible idea for your own peace of mind, but I don''t see how it''s a violation of his trust. Why would it be? It''s not even a violation of HER privacy. If she posts things on public bulletin boards, she has to know that people might read them. The person you hurt the most by reading that stuff is you--you''re obviously making yourself unhappy thinking about her.

 

[bar01]

Date: 3/9/2006 3:55:22 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 3/9/2006 3:44:31 PM

Author: Caribou


So let me ask this...if you suspected your boyfriend were cheating, you had this amazingly stong gut feeling that he was, you had people say that they've heard he was, so you approached him with what you've heard. He says he isn't, hasn't and wouldn't. But that gut feeling is still there, the one that everyone tells you not to ignore, and the same people are still telling you what they've heard. He still denies it. Do you just let it go....trust that he's being honest even though all these other things are telling you othewise? Or do you try and find out for sure??


I guess really all I'm saying is that you can't really say what you would or wouldn't do if put in her situation. I think her snooping was mild and harmless.

I absolutely agree. Despite the fact that her BF has promised he'll never lie again, he still has. Because he lied, I think he deserves a little investigating. Casually glancing at the phone records doesn't hurt him a bit...but it makes Stacy feel better when he can't. Trust is a bitch of a thing to re-earn once it's lost, and it's fact that guys and girls lie to their significant others all the time. How many of us have cheated/been cheated on? I think that trusting your SO 100% when your gut is telling you that something is wrong is rather naive. Nobody's perfect, and people mess up. In this case, Stacy's boyfriend messed up...he should have known better than to repeatedly talk to/txt an ex-girlfriend. Privacy, schmivacy. All he had to do was tell the truth.

Reading all of these responses (as a guy) I agree with what EBree (and caribou) are saying here.


Edited later to add the following -

If you are searching for a perfect friend, mate. wife/husband, or child - - - one that will never lie, never fail, never hurt you -- you will be looking for a long time. Human beings are flawed, we make mistakes, we sin, and we hurt others sometimes directly or indirectly. It does not excuse this kind of behavior, justify it, but you understand it happens sometimes.
He feels bad, you feel a little bad. Forgive your boyfriend and forgive yourself. Your tallking and working on being a better couple. Good for you!

 

[stermag]

glitterata, thank you for your kind assessment of my advice. No, I''m not a psychologists and have never had any therapy (although perhaps I could have used some at various points in my life). I am, at most, a keen observer of people. But back on topic...

Life would be a heck of a lot easier if we could always deal in absolutes. "Lying is always bad," you say. "Lying is unjustifiable", etc.. etc.. Folks, it is not that simple. Let''s focus a fraction of the time we have spent analyzing the action to analyze the person. Even murder is punishable differently depending on one''s intention - was it premeditated? was it an accident? was it a crime of passion?

Stacy''s boyfriend lied - yes, this we have established. But why did he lie? Was it because he has done something wretched and needed to conceal it? Was it because he was afraid of her reaction? Was it because he was ashamed of the fact that he wanted, or even needed, some attention from his regretful ex to redeem himself as a man? In short, we can say he lied because of some weakness - be it fear, shame or regret.

It is precisely this same motive (weakness) that motivated Stacy to invade his privacy. Her weakness is fear - fear of being hurt, betrayed, abandoned. Many of you say she had the right to snoop. I think what you''re really saying is that you relate to her situation and feel that her boyfriend precipitated her snooping, therefore she isn''t really to blame. I agree that we shouldn''t blame her, but her actions weren''t right.

We cannot say "lying is always wrong but snooping is only wrong if you were doing it without just cause"....

So, I guess my point is that not a single one amongst us has sufficient knowledge to really give specific advice here. In so doing, we are really projecting our own experiences and feelings regarding this or perhaps a similar situation in our own lives. Stacy''s boyfriend is not the guy who lied to you three years ago and broke your heart.

My only advice has been to get to the bottom of what motivated his action and deal with the cause, not the symptom. That is, if you believe, Stacy, that he is the kind of guy worth investing some real time and effort into. If so, give him the benefit of the doubt, quiet your own fears for a moment to really listen to what he''s saying. Separate the feelings he himself has triggered in you and those which you might have been somehow predisposed to feeling (i.e. your own insecurity).

Alright. I''m done. This is all worth exactly what you paid for it, btw.

 

[stacyQ]

Yes, I believe he is worth it, and like I said before, I think the sitch would have been easier to deal with if this weren''t a totally out of character and isolated incident (more black and white, that way I could really just chalk it up to the fact that he was a lying jerk). We have definitely talked at length about how what he did hurt both me and the relationship (and never once has he gotten mad at me for looking at the phone bill or calling, he said that if it comes into my house, I have a right to look at it. I even told him I had a friend call, he still was not mad). So, I think we will be okay, he just needs to go back to boyfriend school and learn some etiquette.

Thanks for all of the advice. REALLY APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/9/2006 10:22:27 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

aljdewey, these are all your opinions.

Yes they are, and I never represented them as anything other than my opnions. Where's the problem? Please reread Stacy's very first post.....she asked "any thoughts?". I gave mine. I don't see why you have a problem with it?

Yes, lying is wrong. Is everyone a saint who never lies? No. If you had read my other posts, you would understand that I believe BOTH parties were wrong in this situation, and I am in no way trying to excuse his behavior. I'm simply giving another perspective so that people don't automatically jump to a certain conclusion that may or may not be accurate.

Aphis, the fact that someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean a) that they didn't read your posts, or b) that they are attacking you. It just means they don't agree with a point you've made. I've seen this with you in a few threads now....where you take it personally and defensively if folks disagree with you.

I really hope you realize that folks here aren't attacking you...including me. We are assuming that everyone is adult enough to have differences of opinion without taking it personally. The fact that I disagree with your ideology doesn't mean I don't like YOU. We just disagree....no big deal.

Just because he may have panicked and lied in the process, does not mean that he is a flat out liar that should not be trusted. Yes, it does AFFECT the amount of trust in the relationship, but one must not judge someone by one mistake. If there were perhaps a harsher truth, such as actual cheating, then that's the time to mark him. All we know right now is that he said what he shouldn't have, and he seems regretful according to StaceyQ's update.

I'm not judging him......it might help to reread what I actually said more closely. What I said is that *I* personally feel the lie is a problem, and *I* personally would have to give serious consideration on it because his first instinct IN THIS SITUATION was to lie. And *I* believe that people follow their first instincts fairly consistently. If *I* were the partner in this relationship, *I* would have a hard time with lingering doubts going forward. I'm not trying to be a jerk by emphasizing, but then again, I don't feel like every post should have to go to such extremes to be understood as just an individual opinion. I never said what StacyQ should think or do, nor did I say that everyone else should see it this way.

I am the kind of person who has a completely open mind and looks at situations from all angles. I feel that you were intent on burning him at the stake without knowing all the factors involved in the situation. If perhaps she did chase him around with a pitchfork, I can almost guarantee he didn't think about doing what's best in the situation. Not everyone is that logical under pressure. Some people respond differently by how they're approached. You are scrutinizing a lot of comments I made and responding with what YOU think is right and would probably do in the situation. However, what you may do or think, is not what someone else may think or do.

I didn't suggest that anyone should be burned at the stake. What I said is *I*....Al.....believe that situation would make me have to seriously rethink the relationship if I were the one in it. I said I think it's a real problem......not one that's unsolvable, and not necessarily one that should immediately end the relationship.....but a problem that has to be addressed. That's how I see it.

I never said anyone else should think or do the same. The fact that people offer their solicited thoughts and opinions doesn't mean we think everyone else should see it the same way.

ETA: No hard feelings, I just felt a little attacked by you.

No hard feelings here either; I just really hope going forward that you can be comfortable that a difference of opinion is just that, and not anything more.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/10/2006 12:23:12 AM
Author: glitterata

Al J, clearly YOU wouldn't be able to get past the lying thing. You and your husband do well to treat each other with scrupulous honesty. But not everybody is like that. Some people have other ways of dealing with each other that work for them.

I agree, and I never said everyone was like that, or that everyone should handle it the same way or view it the same way. And yes, that was my only point...that I personally would have a really hard time with the lying.

Stacy asked for thoughts, I gave mine. Not how everyone else should see/do it, but just what my individual concerns would be in this situation and why *I* would have a problem with it.

Hell, my first post in this thread was littered with phrases like "to ME.....for ME... I personally.....", etc. I just don't know how to be any more explicit that offering what *I* think is just that....my opinion, and not meant to suggest "this should apply to everyone."

Honestly, every post here should be implicitly understood to reflect any poster's individual opinion without having to load it with 15 disclaimers that it's ok if others don't agree. It's a discussion forum. People offer opinions. Opinions are just that...how individuals perceive given instances...and nothing more.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

First of all, I don't take every disagreement with my opinion as an attack. But when I go to a thread and find half of my comments quoted and scrutinized, yes, that comes off as a little bit of attack-ish. And I don't know what you're talking about seeing it in a few posts by me. I've only felt attacked by anyone maybe three times since my return to PS after a break (I came back like 4 or five months ago) and it was remedied quickly without a argument or anything like that. You're talking like it's a frequent occurance. I think you just misread my comments and assume that I take things personally. This is a forum full of complete strangers to me, therefore I know better than to take too many things personally. I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not. But how would you feel if you came to a thread and saw that? I personally feel that if someone feels the need to scrutinize my comments, I feel the need to elaborate on those comments to better show my point of view. No defensiveness from me really. It's called debating and I LOVE a good debate. However, calling my comments bad or unfounded is not required and would certainly not be wanted.

ETA: You wrote your "I" and "me" comments in such a way that you are stating facts and not opinions, at least that's how I read it. It came off as a one-sided thing and that's not what I'm about. As usual, another example of how written words can come between two people in the wrong ways.

I much prefer voice conversations because of this.

Seacrest out...

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Oh, StacyQ, I have a skeletal identification project due in a week. Wanna do it for me???

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 3/10/2006 11:19:21 AM
Author: aphisiglovessae
First of all, I don't take every disagreement with my opinion as an attack. But when I go to a thread and find half of my comments quoted and scrutinized, yes, that comes off as a little bit of attack-ish.

Aphis, I'd suggest you go back and read this thread.

1) you quoted me first, so I replied to your comments. I quoted you in exactly and ONLY 2 of my posts.....my other posts were responses to comments by someone else.

2) You quoted at least two comments from ESguy, and at least 2 from Caribou.....so if it's fine for YOU to do it, why is it "oh everyone is attacking me" when others quote you?

3) Quoting ISN'T an insult, for goodness sake! Unlike a real-time conversation, sometimes responses to given thoughts cannot be given instantly, so quoting helps provide reference to what comments apply to.

And I don't know what you're talking about seeing it in a few posts by me. I've only felt attacked by anyone maybe three times since my return to PS after a break I think you just misread my comments and assume that I take things personally.

Not really...not an assumption, an observation based on past and present reactions. I'm not going to talk about the "past posts" by you since much of it was deleted, and I respect that you may not wish to revisit that. But it most assuredly wasn't an assumption based on this thread alone.

This thread is a perfect example. If you feel *attacked* (which is what you said) when people disagree with a point you make, then YES you take things personally. If you feel attacked when people quote something you've said and respond to it (esp. disagreeing with it) and get defensive about it, then yes, you take things personally.

But how would you feel if you came to a thread and saw that?

I HAVE come to many threads and seen that, and I don't feel the least bit attacked or offended. People are responding back and forth with opinions...it's the nature of the format. If it makes you feel attacked, perhaps this isn't a good format for you.

I personally feel that if someone feels the need to scrutinize my comments, I feel the need to elaborate on those comments to better show my point of view. No defensiveness from me really. It's called debating and I LOVE a good debate. However, calling my comments bad or unfounded is not required and would certainly not be wanted.

No one SCRUTINIZED your comments.......if it's okay for YOU quote others and elaborate to better illustrate your point of view, why is it "attacking" when others do it? Further, I didn't call your comments unfounded....I felt the example you gave wasn't a solid "devil's advocate" position, and I still feel it doesn't. That's my opinion....which you are free to ignore if you don't agree.

ETA: You wrote your 'I' and 'me' comments in such a way that you are stating facts and not opinions, at least that's how I read it.

Precisely what I've been saying. I said MULTIPLE times that it's what I thought, it wouldn't fly for ME, blah blah. That is NOT fact nor was it ever presented as fact, and that seems pretty well understood by most others reading this thread. If you choose to read it another way (i.e. take it personally or be defensive), that's your issue.

Again, I'm not trying to pick on you; I often enjoy some of the perspectives you bring here. But this is a format where debate can require a bit of tolerance and a little bit thicker skin. If you choose to read things with a thin skin, you're going to be offended often, and I'm sure that's not what anyone wants. It's certainly not what I want.

On that note, I'm going to bow out of further comment on the subject.

 

[TxBlonde]

I had this same kind of problem with my man. The ex kept calling...it wasn''t shady cause he was right there when i looked at the phone to see and i recognized the area code. He spoke to her in front of me. I found out that she had been dumped and wanted to talk to him about it. Um....no I don''t think so. I said you need to call her and tell her you can''t help her deal with this you are not together. He called her and this hasn''t been a problem. I just can''t deal with that. It was either keep talking to her or be wth me...I don''t talk to my ex anymore cause it would bother him so I expected the same and I got it eventually.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

I still think you''ve got me all wrong, and those posts that I had deleted were from WAY back when, before I had become the person I am now when visiting forums. I had taken a break after all that and reevaluated my feelings and philosophy about forums and threads. This is the first forum I had ever been a member of, and those posts before my break were when I didn''t know any better about how to interpret posts and yes, I did take things more personally then. I don''t anymore and I''ve been MUCH happier visiting PS than I was before.

Yes, I quoted and replied to other posts, but I didn''t do it to just one person and I never said they were wrong. When I read your posts, you had only quoted me at the time and it sounded like you were telling me I was wrong. I never said I was insulted though. Just thought I was being called out. And I only felt attacked by you in this thread, not anyone else. In case you didn''t notice, if I feel a little attacked, I let you know rather than bursting out in a rampage or something. I would''ve rather PM''d you, but they got rid of that so there''s no other alternative than to just say it in public. As a result, you''ve been going back and forth with me, still making the wrong assumptions about me, and I think it''s just going around in circles with no end. I don''t feel the need to argue with you or the need to help you understand me any more than you do. You have your mind made up and there''s no changing that. I know the kind of person I am, and I know what my purpose was in my posts.

I have WAY thicker skin than you think. I care that people don''t have the correct impression about me, but I don''t really care whether they like my opinions or not. Does that make sense? This is how I was raised. But rather than get defensive, I would rather elaborate things and explain further what I mean (which is what I attempted to do). No offense, but perhaps your skin is just as thin as you think mine is, because you keep going back and forth about this?

But this is StacyQ''s thread, not ours, so back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Still no hard feelings towards you, I just feel that this is a dead issue and should no longer be discussed. The issue at hand is StacyQ''s feelings and her situation.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Date: 3/10/2006 10:04:54 AM
Author: stacyQ
So, I think we will be okay, he just needs to go back to boyfriend school and learn some etiquette.

Ha ha, I think A LOT of guys need to do that. Keep us updated on your progress. Hopefully you won''t be coming back saying he messed up again.

 

[stacyQ]

Date: 3/10/2006 11:50:15 AM
Author: aphisiglovessae
Oh, StacyQ, I have a skeletal identification project due in a week. Wanna do it for me???

Sure, I will trade you my MATLAB programming class project

 

[stacyQ]

Date: 3/10/2006 2:38:21 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

Date: 3/10/2006 10:04:54 AM
Author: stacyQ
So, I think we will be okay, he just needs to go back to boyfriend school and learn some etiquette.

Ha ha, I think A LOT of guys need to do that. Keep us updated on your progress. Hopefully you won''t be coming back saying he messed up again.

He was VERY good last night too! We have a problem (because he is kinda famous around here) with girls hitting on him when we are out around town. He told them all to buzz off last night with no evil glare coming from me. I think he gets the hint now

.

Thanks guys, for heling me through this!

 

[Shawna13]

Hi stacyQ!!
I''m coming in a little late into the discussion.... but just wanted to comment. This is a crappy situation girl, and it''s really good that you''re talking about this with your guy. I hope that you guys can get past this!! It''ll take some time, but do lots of talking and figure out how this will affect your relationship in the future. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves forgiveness, but the trust issue definitely needs to be figured out! Best of luck with this.

I feel that everything you did was justified. Your guy lied to you, but you didn''t know it. You asked him if he was talking to his ex and his said no. Your gut feeling said "something''s not right" and sure enough... .your gut feeling was right!! WOMEN''S INTUITION is alive and well people!

You have to protect yourself (physically and emotionally) and part of that is doing what you need to do to make things right in your relationship. You felt things weren''t right and you took action! Checking phone records was perfectly justified. Checking the Internet was perfectly justified If you hadn''t, how would you have figured out he was still talking to her? He could have kept lying to you for months and months and months and really... how good would that have been for the relationship??

Sometimes men don''t think to tell the truth cause they think "well I''m not doing anything wrong... not cheating... so why tell her?". Back when my fiance and I had been dating about a year, he started freaking out a bit and wasn''t sure if he wanted to stay in the relationship (was thinking of breaking up cause he was really scared cause deep down he knew that this was it... he was never in a longer term relationship and especially one that was headed for marriage). An ex-girlfriend from 6 years ago called him and they hung out. They ended up going to a motel for a couple hours. Nothing happened.. no touching, kissing, anything... they just watched TV and talked and then drove her home. He actually came to say goodnight to me that night and went back to his apartment. He never told me about it cause he thought "Well... nothing happened... and I''m so happy nothing happened.. and I know now that I want to be with this girl and could never cheat on her". He thought why make things worse by telling me. Stupid thinking, yes. We are very very honest with eachother now, and he''s had to win back my trust in the last year. I only found out about the motel stay cause I took his truck out grocery shopping a week later and just had a "weird feeling" something was up. He had been ultra-lovey dovey in the last week. And for who knows what reason.... I checked the compartment in the consol of his truck and found a motel receipt. I called him and he denied it. He said he went there just to get away and think about things (he was living with a roommate at the time). I didn''t believe him so went to the motel and the lady told me she remembered him, and he was there with a girl who left her bracelets behind. He confessed everything when I went to see him later... but just an example about lying and women''s intuition.

If you think something''s wrong... you have to protect yourself and find out what''s wrong (after asking him directly, which you did!!!) Furthermore... you really need to tell him about what was written on the discussion board. I don''t remember reading whether you did or not, but that''s SO very important!!! Guys can be so clueless when it comes to women hitting on them. If they''re not interested, they think the girl must not be either, even when she is petting their arms or blatantly flirting.

I hope everything works out for you.

 

[stacyQ]

Date: 3/11/2006 6:28:57 PM
Author: Shawna13
Hi stacyQ!!
I''m coming in a little late into the discussion.... but just wanted to comment. This is a crappy situation girl, and it''s really good that you''re talking about this with your guy. I hope that you guys can get past this!! It''ll take some time, but do lots of talking and figure out how this will affect your relationship in the future. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves forgiveness, but the trust issue definitely needs to be figured out! Best of luck with this.

I feel that everything you did was justified. Your guy lied to you, but you didn''t know it. You asked him if he was talking to his ex and his said no. Your gut feeling said ''something''s not right'' and sure enough... .your gut feeling was right!! WOMEN''S INTUITION is alive and well people!

You have to protect yourself (physically and emotionally) and part of that is doing what you need to do to make things right in your relationship. You felt things weren''t right and you took action! Checking phone records was perfectly justified. Checking the Internet was perfectly justified If you hadn''t, how would you have figured out he was still talking to her? He could have kept lying to you for months and months and months and really... how good would that have been for the relationship??

Sometimes men don''t think to tell the truth cause they think ''well I''m not doing anything wrong... not cheating... so why tell her?''. Back when my fiance and I had been dating about a year, he started freaking out a bit and wasn''t sure if he wanted to stay in the relationship (was thinking of breaking up cause he was really scared cause deep down he knew that this was it... he was never in a longer term relationship and especially one that was headed for marriage). An ex-girlfriend from 6 years ago called him and they hung out. They ended up going to a motel for a couple hours. Nothing happened.. no touching, kissing, anything... they just watched TV and talked and then drove her home. He actually came to say goodnight to me that night and went back to his apartment. He never told me about it cause he thought ''Well... nothing happened... and I''m so happy nothing happened.. and I know now that I want to be with this girl and could never cheat on her''. He thought why make things worse by telling me. Stupid thinking, yes. We are very very honest with eachother now, and he''s had to win back my trust in the last year. I only found out about the motel stay cause I took his truck out grocery shopping a week later and just had a ''weird feeling'' something was up. He had been ultra-lovey dovey in the last week. And for who knows what reason.... I checked the compartment in the consol of his truck and found a motel receipt. I called him and he denied it. He said he went there just to get away and think about things (he was living with a roommate at the time). I didn''t believe him so went to the motel and the lady told me she remembered him, and he was there with a girl who left her bracelets behind. He confessed everything when I went to see him later... but just an example about lying and women''s intuition.

If you think something''s wrong... you have to protect yourself and find out what''s wrong (after asking him directly, which you did!!!) Furthermore... you really need to tell him about what was written on the discussion board. I don''t remember reading whether you did or not, but that''s SO very important!!! Guys can be so clueless when it comes to women hitting on them. If they''re not interested, they think the girl must not be either, even when she is petting their arms or blatantly flirting.

I hope everything works out for you.

Wow, I freaked over a phone call, but a motel receipt!!!!!!!! Girl, you got nerves of STEEL!!!!!! I hope your SO realizes how lucky he is, because if he were mine, testicles would be missing! Glad to hear that it worked out okay! Gives me hope.