New Gemstone Auctions Old Pitfalls

[T L]

When purchasing from an unknown dealer, without much buyer protection in place, be prepared to spend an amount you’re prepared to risk losing. I ordered a zircon from a dealer on eBay recently, but it was only $25. If for some reason, I got a dud, I would not lose sleep over the purchase. However, I prefer eBay purchases over buying blindly off Instagram. There are many wonderful dealers on Instagram, but I’m not happy with the protections in place. I think eBay and Etsy offer better purchasing platforms for consumer protection.

 

[fredflintstone]

When purchasing from an unknown dealer, without much buyer protection in place, be prepared to spend an amount you’re prepared to risk losing. I ordered a zircon from a dealer on eBay recently, but it was only $25. If for some reason, I got a dud, I would not lose sleep over the purchase. However, I prefer eBay purchases over buying blindly off Instagram. There are many wonderful dealers on Instagram, but I’m not happy with the protections in place. I think eBay and Etsy offer better purchasing platforms for consumer protection.

That is why I always suggest being invoiced through PayPal on Instagram, Facebook, or any selling internet venue with out a third party arbitrator.

 

[Jojo69]

To my surprise, I came across the same exact gem (1.055ct) on the seller's website auction a few weeks later. I'm unsure if the winner of the previous (Instagram) auction didn't pay or returned the stone, or for any other reason, but there it was, listed again.

You are, in fact, the same person who won the Mahenge Spinel in our Instagram auction and paid $600 for it. **edited by moderator, one and only warning regarding threatening to dox people. This is unacceptable here.**

After receiving the spinel, you expressed dissatisfaction, describing the stone as "moody" and not meeting your expectations regarding color. You then offered to pay only $300 for the stone. As a matter of principle, I declined your offer and instead arranged for you to return the spinel in exchange for a full refund. It is worth noting that this was the second instance where you threatened to return an item unless a partial refund was provided. The first incident involved a zircon, where we made a partial refund based on your claim of a missed feather. We consider it a lesson learned. We made it clear to you we were not interested in further business, and I suppose this passive aggressive post is your response.

I don't believe it is necessary to defend estimated values. In today's connected world, it takes just a few clicks for anyone to compare prices and see what other sellers are asking for similar items. All sellers are free to set their own prices, and ultimately, the market determines the value of an item.

It is disheartening to witness someone in the comments casting doubts on the authenticity of our stones. Defending oneself against such baseless claims on the internet is impossible. The fact that someone has not seen a stone as nice as one we may be selling is no reason to cast shade on the vendor. We have never enhanced our photos or videos. We maintain a commitment to presenting our products honestly and transparently.

 

[realru]

You are, in fact, the same person who won the Mahenge Spinel in our Instagram auction and paid $600 for it. *edited by moderator, one and only warning regarding threatening to dox people. This is unacceptable here.**

After receiving the spinel, you expressed dissatisfaction, describing the stone as "moody" and not meeting your expectations regarding color. You then offered to pay only $300 for the stone. As a matter of principle, I declined your offer and instead arranged for you to return the spinel in exchange for a full refund. It is worth noting that this was the second instance where you threatened to return an item unless a partial refund was provided. The first incident involved a zircon, where we made a partial refund based on your claim of a missed feather. We consider it a lesson learned. We made it clear to you we were not interested in further business, and I suppose this passive aggressive post is your response.

I don't believe it is necessary to defend estimated values. In today's connected world, it takes just a few clicks for anyone to compare prices and see what other sellers are asking for similar items. All sellers are free to set their own prices, and ultimately, the market determines the value of an item.

It is disheartening to witness someone in the comments casting doubts on the authenticity of our stones. Defending oneself against such baseless claims on the internet is impossible. The fact that someone has not seen a stone as nice as one we may be selling is no reason to cast shade on the vendor. We have never enhanced our photos or videos. We maintain a commitment to presenting our products honestly and transparently.

Good to see that you are actively engaging with this forum, despite previously ignoring my private messages and questions. I don't have any challenges for you; instead, I want to provide some facts that I hope will assist the community here in avoiding potential pitfalls with auctions like yours. This is why this forum exists.

I want to clarify that I have never "threatened" you with a return of the item. This accusation is quite serious coming from you, and I kindly request that you retract it. Your own website clearly states that you offer returns to customers. I even provided a screenshot as evidence above. Throughout our email exchanges, I have always maintained a polite and respectful tone. However, your last response towards me was abrupt and aggressive when I requested to return the spinel. Unfortunately, this aggressive tone is evident even in your public messages. Is this really necessary? Consider how this reflects on your reputation as a gem vendor within this community.

You are misrepresenting what actually transpired: the zircon I purchased from you had an internal crack that was not visible in your images and videos. I sent you photographs of the stone clearly showing the crack and offered two options: to return it and incur shipping costs or keep it with a partial refund, as the crack significantly affected its value. Nothing is wrong or "threatening" with this offer of a solution. You expressed gratitude for finding the solution and apologized for overlooking the crack. I have our email exchange as proof, which clearly demonstrates a cordial resolution of the matter.

The spinel, on the other hand, appeared dark and "moody" (with a gray modifier) in person and did not match the description of a "top-quality in every way Mahenge cobalt spinel" valued at nearly $4K, as you claim in the auction description. When I received the stone, I was astonished by what I received and asked for the option to either return it or keep it with a partial refund. I presented this as an alternative for you to consider, just as with the zircon. However, you requested that I return it at my own expense, and responded in very dismissive terms that made me feel disrespected and small. You claimed that you are an expert of the spinel market and that the nearly $4k estimate is what they go for in Bangkok.

Subsequently, you relisted the spinel with a significantly lower estimated value (half of the stated "Bangkok" price) and auctioned it off for a mere $450, still above what I believe it is worth. Looking back, I would not have offered more than $300 for it. I have recently purchased a better-looking spinel for just above $200, and I am much happier with it.

My intention is not to attack you with my original post. However, I feel it is important to share my experience with auctions similar to yours. There is nothing "passive-aggressive" in sharing the information here. In fact, it takes time and effort to bring this public. This is how us, the consumers, can share our experiences and lear from each other.

Additionally, I want to address a concerning issue: you have made threats above to publish our exchange and disclose my personal information. I must emphasize that posting personal information or engaging in doxing is not only a violation of this forum's rules but also potentially illegal.

And for the benefit of the readers here, jojo69 is the vendor Joe Henley Rough and Gemstones.

 

[realru]

You are, in fact, the same person who won the Mahenge Spinel in our Instagram auction and paid $600 for it. Challenge me and I'll happily post the email exchange

After receiving the spinel, you expressed dissatisfaction, describing the stone as "moody" and not meeting your expectations regarding color. You then offered to pay only $300 for the stone. As a matter of principle, I declined your offer and instead arranged for you to return the spinel in exchange for a full refund. It is worth noting that this was the second instance where you threatened to return an item unless a partial refund was provided. The first incident involved a zircon, where we made a partial refund based on your claim of a missed feather. We consider it a lesson learned. We made it clear to you we were not interested in further business, and I suppose this passive aggressive post is your response.

I don't believe it is necessary to defend estimated values. In today's connected world, it takes just a few clicks for anyone to compare prices and see what other sellers are asking for similar items. All sellers are free to set their own prices, and ultimately, the market determines the value of an item.

It is disheartening to witness someone in the comments casting doubts on the authenticity of our stones. Defending oneself against such baseless claims on the internet is impossible. The fact that someone has not seen a stone as nice as one we may be selling is no reason to cast shade on the vendor. We have never enhanced our photos or videos. We maintain a commitment to presenting our products honestly and transparently.

Your own return policy for auctions. It sounds good on paper, but the reality is that you retaliate against people who ask to return anything, as I have experienced.

 

[fredflintstone]

For those of you on FB, here are reviews for Joe Henley Rough and Gemstones. Joe is the owner of the auction site this thread was started on.

Funny enough I know a lot of these people & have sold to them when I was dealing. It is a small world in the colored gemstone trade. Very knowledgeable people, many in the trade. It seems Joe has a great reputation, even though I never heard of him before. In light of the reviews here, I do retract my comments about his cc Zircons or any negative comments I made.

My apologies to Joe. When I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and have no problem admitting it.

Reviews. Read for yourselves.

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[realru]

I started this thread not as a referendum on any particular vendor or vendors. Despite numerous requests, I did not single out any vendor names because it was not essential to the core point of my original post. Since it is not possible to control what other members want to discuss here and what claims they make, I want to remind everyone that my original aim was to outline a general practice of inflating estimated values of otherwise unremarkable gems at some Instagram auctions. Since these target values are assigned by established and often reputable vendors or trade experts, this may prompt consumers with various levels of knowledge about gemstones and pricing, which are very opaque to non-trade experts, to bid up to that inflated value due to the inherent trust they have in any particular vendor. As a result, consumers may overpay by significant margins while believing they are getting a deal. I offered my honest opinion based on my observations and personal experiences with various auctions.

Until one of the vendors inserted himself in this forum with a personal attack on me, revealing my private information about what I bought from him and how much I paid, and threatening to reveal even more of my confidential and sensitive details that he holds because I had a customer account with him, this thread was about the general practices I and others are seeing and experiencing firsthand. I am grateful to the moderators of this forum for promptly intervening and editing out one of the most egregious threats to dox me coming from the vendor. However, there are still portions of the vendor's post that are factually inaccurate and potentially harmful to me.

Needless to say, every participant of this forum is free to reveal as much or as little private information about themselves or their purchases. Yes, I have been Joe's customer for years, buying rough, specimens, cabochons, and most recently, faceted gemstones, enough for a small collection. The majority of my purchases were not through his auctions. Instead of using this opportunity to write a thoughtful and enlightening post about gemstone auctions for the benefit of members here, Joe reduced his response to a personal attack on me, bringing up random and unrelated information about one other item I purchased from his auction that was not as described (zircon with an internal fracture). If anything, this attempt to portray me in a bad light underscores the fact that some auction items are of lower quality and sometimes not as described, as I have experienced. While I don't think it is necessary to defend myself against such personal attacks, I attempted to set the record straight about what happened. Please note that the defective zircon and the dark spinel that did not resemble the top-quality Mahenge cobalt material the auction claimed it to be are two items among many more items I kept. Some of these items I purchased from Joe were good, while some were duds that I did not bother to return. Once again, Joe has a 7-day inspection and return policy. However, returns are hard, expensive, and time-consuming. In my experience, Joe does not cover returns of items that do not meet expectations. This is the reason I offered a partial refund solution instead of a return for the two items I found unsatisfactory. Many members here have taken this route as well when returns are complicated. This option is often amenable for both parties as it saves time, money, and effort, as was clearly the case with the zircon, despite what Joe is trying to claim in his post. Joe wrote to me in an email in response to suggesting the partial refund resolution, "That's fair. I was going to have it recut. Thanks for suggesting a solution." Despite writing this, Joe still portrayed this offer as a "threat," which I strongly disagree with and am asking him to retract it. After I asked to return or partially refund the spinel Joe quietly removed my account with him and blocked me from accessing his website. This is not in line with the return policy as far as I can tell. But enough on this.

Lastly, I don't want to open an argument about the free market vs. certain responsibility that sellers, especially reputable sellers, have to their consumers when describing an item or pricing it. Someone here said Caveat emptor… Perhaps, but we have certain consumer protections here in the U.S. that we as consumers should know about and use accordingly instead of absorbing losses on "duds" we may buy. Gemstones are still a consumer product. However, the market does decide: the spinel I bought from Joe and returned later sold for mere $450, a staggering $3,300 less than its stated "expert Bangkok" value of $3,750.

Thank you for all the members here sharing their experiences.