Not sure WHAT is happening here....

[Mediterranean]

The thing that makes this so difficult to navigate is that he''s NOT doing this on purpose, and he''s NOT a bad guy, and he may really, really, truly love you and want you in his life.


That his feelings are genuine is NOT the problem here. I don''t doubt that he loves you.... The heartbreaking truth of the matter is that he may love you very much, and he may have every intention of spending his life with you..........without marrying you (which, from what I gather, is where the conflict lies).



This is where the therapist comes in (ideally); because his method of coping with a disastrous marriage may be to avoid marriage altogether. He may be functional and healed enough to be a great boyfriend, but when it comes to marrying again, that''s where he still has some healing to do. Which is why you run into a brick wall with "taking it to the next level."


So I guess the next logical questions are:

1. Is it true that his coping method consists of having a serious committed relationship, but not marrying?


2. If #1 is, indeed, true, is he interested in seeing a therapist in order to work on a coping method that DOESN''T leave you in the "Perpetual Girlfriend" position (in other words, does he really want a therapist to help him feel at peace enough with his past to marry you?)


3. If he doesn''t want to go to therapy with that goal in mind, and he doesn''t see himself becoming excited, happy, and hopeful about the prospect of becoming your husband, are you willing to go to therapy yourself in order to make peace with the fact that although you''re both in love and committed, you guys won''t ever end up married (kinda like Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell? Theirs is a beautiful example of a strong commitment in the absence of a marriage license, and it''s pretty inspiring...)


That last one is the tough one. I think we all know that there are so many different manifestations of love, and marriage is simply one of them, not THE only one. I also think that most of us have seen unmarried people have long, happy successful relationships without the "piece of paper" and we''re all mature enough to know that marriage isn''t a guarantee of happiness or lifelong togetherness.

This is where the "time apart" comes in very handy. It gives you a chance to rationally decide what you''ll accept out of a relationship. If you know in your heart of hearts that you will not be happy or satisfied being Eternal Girlfriend, then you''ll know what to do.


However, if being with your fella forever outweighs the importance of being his wife, and you weren''t able to predict that till ya fell in love with him, then you''ll also know what to do.


The idea is, if he''s confused, then the time apart will allow you to hear your own voice loud and clear, without what he says or feels causing confusion. Once you know what it is that you want, things will fall into place fairly quickly. You guys will either be the non-blonde Kurt n'' Goldie or you''ll be married, or you will be free to find a guy whose philosophy about marriage more closely matches your own.

 

[peridot83]

I just wanted to say that I am so impressed with how you handled the situation so far! I also want to thank all the ladies for their responses: they have helped me a lot since I'm in the same situation. My bf of 4 yrs did the same thing to me a week ago, and I was much less together about it.

We had a fight, and I told him: "You need to stop picking at me, for the past year I've run ragged trying to resolve your doubts, and our relationship is completely unequal. It's time to move on from the past and recommit to each other" He totally surprised me with: "I agree, our relationship can't continue this way, and I don't think this is going to work."

At the time, he took back his words as soon as I started crying. A few days later, over the phone he said "Ummm..yea...so I want to break up...so uh...sorry." When he saw me in person, again, he tried to backpeddle.

As someone who understands, but may not have the most neutral perspective this is how I'm handling it:

I told him I was here to talk if he really needs it but otherwise we've broken up - no more seeing each other, no more relationship. I was calm about it, so that he wouldn't say somethign he didn't mean out of guilt or fear.

For us, since we're much younger (mid-20s), we are completely moving forward and are going to see/date other people. For me, I hope this either clears ups his doubts - or makes him realize I truly am not the one for him once and for all.

He also backpedled with me; don't let him! This isn't a movie - his attitude is NOT going to change over night. Give him the space to really think about it, and only take him back when he can say "I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this work and marry you."

NO trial runs. This is supposed to be an EQUAL partnership as Deco and others said.

Good luck!!!! As my mom told me: You are a strong independent woman, and you don't need to become the "victim" in a relationship. Don't let him take away your power to determine your own life.

 

[vslover]

Date: 2/15/2008 5:50:25 PM
Author: Mediterranean
The thing that makes this so difficult to navigate is that he''s NOT doing this on purpose, and he''s NOT a bad guy, and he may really, really, truly love you and want you in his life.



That his feelings are genuine is NOT the problem here. I don''t doubt that he loves you.... The heartbreaking truth of the matter is that he may love you very much, and he may have every intention of spending his life with you..........without marrying you (which, from what I gather, is where the conflict lies).

I think since he said he''s "not feeling it" that he may love her...but it sounds like he''s saying he''s not IN LOVE with her. And who wants to stick around and try to force a relationship under those circumstances? She deserves better.

 

[Allison D.]

Bridget, agree with everyone else.

You had the talk a few weeks ago. He thought considerably about it and said "you''re not the one".

I''m sure that hurts, and I''m so sorry for that, but now you have to be honest with yourself. Do you really want to travel down the path with someone who can''t recognize all that you are to him after this amount of time?

If he isn''t sure after all this time together.....there''s a reason. And the reason is ''you''re not the one''.

There isn''t anything you can ''do'' about it. You are you, and you can''t be something else. It doesn''t mean there''s something wrong with you. It means ''it''s not a match'', that''s all.

Invest your energies into someone who DOES see all the wonderful things you are......and who KNOWS you are the one.

 

[designchica]

Date: 2/15/2008 2:40:10 PM
Author: decodelighted


After two years of dating, he tried to break up with you
ON THE PHONE,
WHILE YOU WERE AT WORK,
ON VALENTINE''S DAY ...
and the way he expressed it was
the uber-jerky ''I''m not FEELIN IT''

!

Ditto. This guy does not care about you in the way that you deserve to be loved and cared about.

Seriously. Valentines Day? Even if you two dont'' make a big deal of it, its a low move.

 

[Mediterranean]

Date: 2/15/2008 6:05:15 PM
Author: vslover

Date: 2/15/2008 5:50:25 PM

Author: Mediterranean

The thing that makes this so difficult to navigate is that he''s NOT doing this on purpose, and he''s NOT a bad guy, and he may really, really, truly love you and want you in his life.




That his feelings are genuine is NOT the problem here. I don''t doubt that he loves you.... The heartbreaking truth of the matter is that he may love you very much, and he may have every intention of spending his life with you..........without marrying you (which, from what I gather, is where the conflict lies).

I think since he said he''s ''not feeling it'' that he may love her...but it sounds like he''s saying he''s not IN LOVE with her. And who wants to stick around and try to force a relationship under those circumstances? She deserves better.

Oh, she TOTALLY deserves better!!!! I think that you can love someone and still pull an a**h*le move from time to time (but he shouldn''t be allowed to get away with it)...The thing he did on Valentine''s day was remarkably lunk-headed no doubt. The back-and-forth that he does makes me think he loves her, but he only wants a relationship on HIS terms, which doesn''t fly. It''s just....kinda unrealistic for him to think she''ll continue to put up with the indecision. His attempt to repair the damage was feeble (move in for a month? Gee, thanks! I feel so special!) and his treatment of her afterwards was shoddy (neglecting to call her after he made plans that were not going to pan out? Especially if she had to drive over to him? Weak.)

But we''re getting only a snapshot of the relationship. We don''t know the 2 years worth of good stuff, nor do we know the motivation behind his little melt-down on V-Day.

At this point, I sincerely hope he''s not going to be one of those guys who acts like a jerk until the girl breaks up. That''s LAME

 

[Independent Gal]

Another V-day "meh? meh." person here, and my guy IS really romantic. I think Valentine's day just doesn't register on some peoples' radar. Probably not on his, and especially because not on Sandia's. He may have figured 'she doesn't care it's V-day, so I'll say what I need to say.'

Sandia, I can see why so many of the gals seem torn on how to read this. Probably, your guy himself is torn, and that's why you're getting mixed signals. I really think the only way for him to sort himself out is for you guys to take some time apart. Your presence, as someone he cares about - but may or may not want to marry - is probably clouding his thinking.

So I agree that taking some time apart, or breaking up "until he sorts out what he wants" (which gives him an out), is the way to go. He'll come back for ya, if it's the right thing. Otherwise, time to move on.

So sorry. I know how hard this must be.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Okay, please don''t be offended by the following post...I have the best intentions at heart...

I hate to say this, but I think you''re being somewhat weak in the way you''re going about this. This "on again/off again" thing is so exhusting, and reminds me of high school relationships.

First of all, he''s 42 years old...at what point is he going to grow up? Okay, his first marriage didn''t work out...you know what, that sucks and it is painful...but that doesn''t give him (or anyone) premission to waffle on someone elses dreams, or life.

Secondly, I think you need to just stop and breathe. Obviously this man isn''t giving you the respect or love you deserve...and I don''t care how hard he cuddles with you! For him to call you and drop that bomb while you''re at work...thats just openly disrespectful, there is a time and place for everything...and while you''re working isn''t the time nor the place to get into a deep and meaningful conversation about your future.

Third, you shouldn''t "move in with him on a month to month basis"...either he wants to live with you full time, or not...period. You deserve more than a trial run! What is he expecting of you? To move in for a month...it doesn''t work...so then you move out the following month? A relationship is about stability, comfort, and security...do you feel those things? From reading your post I don''t get the feeling that you are. He''s obviously on the fence about your relationship anyway, so moving in together seems like a really really really bad move!!!

And finally...I can see you love this man. But the most important love affair you''ll ever have is the one you have with yourself. And the same rules apply there; respect, honesty, integrity... I think you need to take a big step back and reflect upon the sacrafices you''re making and the way you''re openly and willingly compromising yourself. This man told you that he didn''t want to be with you...and still you''re pushing the relationship on him. My mom always told me that when a man tells you who he is, listen! Meaning, if he is telling you that you don''t do it for him, you should listen to that. I know breaking up is scary...but you need to ask yourself, what scares you more---being without him, or starting over? Because regardless, I think you''re headed down a slippery slope--and it''s either act now or act later, because this doesn''t seem locked and loaded for the long long long run....

Sorry if that wasn''t what you wanted to hear...but I''m trying to give you the same advice I''d give my sister or best friend in this situation...

 

[risingsun]

While he''s taking time to think things through, you also have the same opportunity. Being away from the relationship for awhile will give you a chance to decide if this is truly the man you want to marry. I don''t agree with the month living together idea. What will it prove? It''s not fair to you or your son. I hope you are able to reach a decision that will be best for your future. I wish you well...

 

[bee*]

I agree with a lot of what Italia said-you deserve so much better bridget, you really do. Under no circumstances would I move in with him for a month, I second all the girls who said to have no contact for a month as that will allow both of you to think about how you want things to go. I just really think that you deserve someone that wants to be with you 100% and I don''t feel that you''re getting the love and respect that you deserve at the moment.

 

[misscuppycake]

All right, so I''ll admit I have not read any of the other posts except for the original post so sorry if I am repeating info that other ladies have already said.

I think that the relationship is still totally salvageable and that you can still make a very decent go at this; however, I don''t think that marriage should be in the very near future. A year and a half can often be the point in a relationship where both people start to TRULY realize the flaws, the disadvantages, and the speedbumps. I personally don''t feel that is soon enough to get married (but some people do and I know it does work for certain situations) and maybe he was just getting a little jittery because of the whole "the one" and "marriage" concept? This is still very much a time for you to keep getting to know each other on an even deeper level, not having to set anything in stone and just continuing to live for the most part, day by day. At any point in a relationship, I think one SHOULD step back and take a look at everything from the most outside perspective they can possibly gain and maybe this was just his moment. He got "cold feet". And that''s okay. I hope things work out for you two!

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

I have to agree with many others on here and say that based on what you''ve told us in your posts, I think it would be best to spend some time apart to get your head around what YOU want for you and your son. Give him some time to miss you. Give yourself some time for YOU...and for your son. Either the time away will bring you closer or will give you the answer you need, so like another said, either way is a win-win.

I am so sorry you are going through this, Bridget *hugs*. I hope for nothing but the best for you - you deserve it. You are an amazing woman and you deserve to be cherished for the gem that you are. Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I also wanted to share with you a story you may find interesting...

When I was younger, I dated a really nice guy. He had just gotten out of a bad relationship that had left him (for lack of a better word) brittle when we met for the first time, but that didn''t stop me from getting head over heels involved with him. I thought at the time that I really liked him, and ergo I put myself out there in every single way I knew how. I would drive to his house, cook him dinner and go home while he and his friends ate...I would go to his house and clean it up for him...I would supportively listen while he mourned the death of his first love, and offer tender ways to help him rebound. I would subtly push him towards our relationship while hoping that he would eventually (sooner or later) jump in like I did--and we would be the *perfect* couple. I spoiled him, bowed to him, endulged him...hoping that those things would better help me prove myself to him...prove that I wasn''t her and I was better. And it wasn''t a matter of him still loving her, it was a matter of his memories lingering and I was no match for those. The truth was, while I was busy "loving" on him...he was busy not "loving" me. That realization hurt, really bad....but, there was a part of me that understood. When people "break up" weither it is a marriage or a LTR, there can be wounds that never heal--and while we can try to heal that person, sometimes we can''t. Eventually, I exited the relationship...I wasnt going to be 2nd to a memory, and I couldn''t fight for what he wouldn''t feel. I realized I couldn''t make him love me, no matter how hard I wanted to, or what I did for him.

Now, I''m happily married. And looking back on my old relationship, I feel relief. I would have never wanted to be with someone that didn''t want to be with me equally as much. Every woman has her non-negoitables...and that was mine, I needed to get what I gave. Loving someone who doesn''t want a future with you is like working for free--and who would do that???

I think you need to take some serious time apart (no phone calls!) and weigh what the relationship mean to you -- what your long term goals are, not just with him but with life in general. Decide what you can compromise on and what you''ll never give up on. It doesn''t sound like your boyfriend is even close to being ready to pop the question...so, if marriage is really important, you need to figure out if your two dreams can marry (no pun intended).

 

[gwendolyn]

Bridget, I know firsthand how difficult it is to be in this point in a relationship with a man, where you think it''s probably time to cut ties in the relationship but other things keep pulling you back, making you feel confused. But I can only imagine how much more difficult it is when you have a child who''s grown to love the man you yourself love as well. You can''t help but take your son''s feelings into account, because he is part of the relationship too in some ways.

I just wanted to let you know that my heart goes out to you, and say that (in case you were thinking it), it''s not selfish of you to distance yourself from this man because you are worried of how your son will feel. He knows his mom deserves the best, and if your boyfriend can''t live up to that standard, your son will (one day) understand.

 

[Girlrocks]

He called you on Valentine''s Day, over the phone, at work and his first comment is "I''m just not feeling it". What else is there to hear? Don''t over think this...he said everything you need to hear.

He doesn''t feel the fireworks, and he doesn''t know if you''re the one. Nothing you can do will change the way he feels. You can''t make someone feel something they don''t.

I have been in his position. I was dating someone for 2 years, who I "grew" to have a strong attachment to, maybe I felt love, but I definitely wasn''t in love with him and KNEW he wasn''t the one. But I stayed with him anyway, maybe because it was comfortable, because it was nice to have someone. I have been where he is, and although the guy I was with was terrific and wonderful, he just wasn''t "the one". I tried to convince myself that he would make a good husband, good father, he was a hard worker, attractive, etc. etc. etc...trying to convince myself that I should stay with him. I stayed longer than I should because I knew how much he loved me and that he would be devistated by a breakup. That was wrong I know, but I couldn''t bring myself to break his heart. But the bottom line is, it just wasn''t there. Why? I don''t know. Why when I met my DH was it there? I don''t know that either. That''s what dating is all about.

He also said that his children would be upset because they are attached to you. Sounds a lot like the relationship I was in, he''s trying to convince himself of why he should stay.

I''ve also been in your shoes. I dated someone for 4 1/2 years, he was my first love, I wanted to marry him since the day I met him. He eventually broke up with me in the parking lot of a restaurant by telling me that he had been trying to distance himself from me for the past 6 months, to let me down easy, but I wasn''t letting him and the only reason he had stayed with me is because he felt sorry for me. I was beyond devastation. But now, 15 years later, I can see that yes, he loved me, he probably could have stayed with me, but for him, I was not "the one". During that 6 months when I tried so hard to make him love me, I would have been thrilled had he proposed to me. Now, when I think if we had stayed together and made a life together, is that what I would want my memories to be of our courtship? Me doing everything to make him love me and him finally caving and deciding to settle? I can look at it this way now.

Do not move in with him. When you dream about your relationship moving forward is this how you see it? Do you dream of your man asking you to move in for a trial run so he can see if he wants to move forward or if he''s right and it''s just not there for him? Of course not. No one dreams of this, and you shouldn''t put yourself and your heart in this position. As crappy and broken as you are feeling now, imagine how hard it''s going to be if you live together for a month and then he says "you know what, nope, didn''t make a difference, still no fireworks". Or god forbid, if he decides to come clean after 5 years of marriage.

Imagine if your best friend was in this situation, what would you want for her?

Forget all of the great stuff that he''s said since that first phone call...he made a mistake, he''s an a$$, he needs you as a spotlight to make it all clear for him...blah, blah, blah...he said everything you needed to hear in that first comment on the phone "he''s just not feeling it". Period. Yes, he feels guilty now for breaking your heart, feels like an idiot for not being in love with a great woman who loves him to all ends, but there is a reason why he called you on the phone at work to tell you this. It''s easier to tell someone something over the phone, especially at work where he knows you can''t run out and come over, or that you can''t get all emotional.

I don''t want to sound mean, and I hope that my post hasn''t angered you. I just want to give you my honest opinion as I have been on both sides of the fence. Take care of you and your heart, and don''t settle for anything but the best. This is not how you dreamt this relationship would take you. Take care.

 

[partgypsy]

First of all Sandia Rose I have silently enjoyed reading your posts because you are a woman who really seems to have her head on straight. Sigh, doesn''t mean bad stuff doesn''t happen to good people.

I have to second what Starset mentioned. When I was with my now husband yes, about a year 1/2 into it, I knew I wanted to go to graduate school in a different state. At that time in our relationship, we had to make a decision, either we break up, or we make a commitment as a couple to be together. I''m not even talking about marriage (I''m more of the perspective that marriage is a formality of the underlying commitment) but that both parties have a committment to one another to make it work, good times AND bad.

So I second what people are saying, that some separation is needed for him to do the work on this. I can''t tell you how much separation, but there needs to be some separation, because despite what you think you both have to work this out on your own, again as Met. said, what you are willing to accept in the relationship as well.

 

[princesss]

Sandia, I have to second most of the wonderful advice you''ve been given. I doubt a trial move-in will do anything except make life harder for you. As hard as it would be, I think a trial separation would be best. Is there any way you can just get your stuff and say, "You know, I''ve thought about it, and a month living together won''t help. A month being apart could help both of us. So I got all my stuff, and I''ll talk to you in a month."? (Wow, that was awkward punctuation.) I think a month apart would let *you* know how it feels to not be with him. You could see if you miss constantly having to reassure him that you''re wonderful and just plain trying so hard.

Sandia, you''re a wonderful woman. As one of the really young ones on the board (21), I''ve learned a lot from your fabulous posts. Please don''t let him hurt you like this. I definitely agree with one of the above posters that said think about what you would say if this was your best friend going through this. Would you tell her to live with him for a month and see how things go?

Best of luck. *hug*

 

[FrekeChild]

Hey sandia, I hope things are ok, and I''m really hoping that you check in soon...

Thinking about you...

 

[LegacyGirl]

Just wondering how you are doing. **HUGS**

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

Bridget - just checking in to see how you are doing and to let you know we''re all thinking of you *hugs*

 

[Miscka]

Bridget, I have been thinking about you, and I hope you will check back in soon.

 

[hisdiamondgirl]

Bridget, I hope that you are doing ok. I haven''t chimed in on the advice since I think that you got some wonderful advice from the ladies here! I just want to reiterate how your posts are very inspirational and you sound like a wonderful woman who deserves nothing but the best!!!

((hugs)) We miss you!

 

[ktdid]

Bridget- I''ve been thinking about you a lot and though I haven''t chimed in with any advice I wanted to let you know that. I can tell from your posts that you are a very strong woman! I always hesitate to give relationship advice since I just went through a very painful divorce (I guess all d''s are painful) last year and feel lacking in the relationship knowledge base. I do think that what he said, "I''m not feeling it" is probably as close to the truth as he could get and anything after that is back peddling. To do it on V-Day!? Even if it''s not a day he cares about it still has some meaning to most people! My current boyfriend had a painful breakup a few years back on V-Day and I can tell it still hurts him.
I think a time-out is in order (so much easier said than done!) and you will be better for it! I know you love him and want to defend him (it''s hard to hear people say mean things about the man you love!) but you need to take care of you!
Wish I was close to you so I could bring over a load of Whoopie Pies to drown your sorrows in

Check in when you can ***hugs***

 

[Rhea]

Wow, what a situation to find yourself in. I don''t have any advice that hasn''t already been said. Please check back in though; it''s been 3 days and several of us are thinking about you.