Old Cut Nuts... Have you switched from RB to Old Stone?

[TravelingGal]

Well, I know I'm crazy and SO not a PSer this way but if G is sentimental, I think he should have a say in the e-ring. TGuy doesn't say much about my jewelry but he loves my wedding set. It's hugely sentimental to HIM too! He remembers how and when he proposed to me, and obviously the wedding band was put on my finger when we got married. In fact, the wedding band is the one piece I NEVER take off. Not to shower, cook, or anything.

I'm a terrible PSer, but I guess for me the wedding set is a keeper. For you though...bah! I say get the big OEC then! Hahaha!!!!

 

[ame]

I do think you would be pricing yourself out of a larger RB later.

This is where I am.

You can say that it is "wasteful" to have it just sit there for three years, but if in 3 years you're back into the RB...you might be hosed trying to replace this one/go bigger financially because your old stone might not fetch anywhere near enough to make it work. So in a sense keeping it around, unworn or otherwise, is more of an investment, as un-investmenty as diamonds usually are.

 

[justginger]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

 

[mrssalvo]

Mara, my original e-ring stone was an OEC...I came here to reset. Although I no longer have it, I loved how that stone preformed and can easily see why there is such a craze for them now. I would much rather have jewelry pieces I wear than sitting in a box and one thing I've learned this year is life is short, you don't know what's going to happen, so do what will make you happy if you can afford it! So, I say go for it!

 

[ihy138]

I'm in the process of making the switch right now. I have a 1.5 carat RB and the OEC I just purchased is the same millimeter size. It's not really an upgrade in the size sense, as I am putting it in the same setting. I love my engagement ring, but when I got my ~1 carat OEC, I was just so mesmerized by the chunky goodness. I realized that old cuts are really what have my heart, and my RB doesn't make me feel that same way. I feel like I've actually gotten bored of it? Neither my fiance or myself were well-versed in antique cut stones, so he went for a modern round brilliant. I'm lucky that he's not sentimental . I think you know what's going to make you happy, and it sounds like it's a big old cut!

 

[distracts]

I have to say, I do not and have never seen the appeal of MRBs. They are unpleasantly spiky. I don't mind them in little sizes, like melee or even five-stone rings, but am not a fan of larger sizes. Honestly, if I had known about old cuts when I bought my e-ring, I might have ended up with a diamond instead of a sapphire (but only maybe, because let's be real, I'm a colored stone girl at heart). Most of the money I am putting in my bling fund is so that I can buy an old cut RHR.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I am another who has always loved old cuts but was afraid to buy the uncertified diamonds set in rings back then (if the diamonds were of decent size). I loved antiques of all kinds, in fact, and still do.

When I came here, it was to get a new anniversary e-ring, and I wanted the best quality because my original 1 ct diamond was not a great cut, although it was a beautiful diamond which I got compliments on. I knew cut was important to me. I decided that I always want a classic rb and hope for a second ring with an old cut. But unlike most here apparently, lack of symmetry and light performance would eventually drive me nuts, so I am not interested in all old cuts. The old cuts that I would buy for myself would be the 1 in a thousand excellent cut, excellent condition, and probably too hard to find. I would buy an AVR or AVC because I adore the faceting and they are mostly symmetrical and have excellent light return. You pay for that, but I know after my quest for a perfect rb, I would end up dissatisfied with a wonky cut old stone.

I don't really think the '80's jeans analogy works because those are out of style and rb's are never out of style. You just prefer a different style at the moment which is great. I don't think you will ever regret getting an old cut as long as you are patient and get an outstanding one, but it is also sad to give up a great diamond that was a bargain price at that time. If you ever wanted another one, I don't think you'd want to take the size cut you'd have to do to make an even trade.

 

[yssie]

This is a fascinating thread - how the tides turn


You definitely do get more diamond for the dollar w/ old cuts. I considered it too after I got my larger OEC studs (~1.25 each), which I adore, but I am not an old cut nut, and ultimately RBs have my brain and my heart. For several reasons:

1. Being a "cut nut" when it comes to true antiques is an exercise in frustration. There are definitely objectively "better" and "poorer" cut OECs, but you'll never find anything approaching the clinical precision that is the hallmark of H&A and near-H&A. I think that precision is what draws some people and drives others away - I, personally, appreciate the absolute symmetry of faceting and symmetry in light return, and I love that I know what my stone is going to do next, if I twist just so or move into another room with a different type of light.

2. I've found that there is a clear difference in the way I enjoy my RBs and my OECs IRL. With my RBs... they *command* my attention IRL. They're so bold and bright and flashy, I can't help but be distracted! I do think they look kinda bland in photos though - there's nothing interesting to focus on since the faceting is the same all around. The OECs, they're shy - I've found that I have to already be admiring them to find more to admire, and I have to already appreciate them to fall further in love. I love old cuts because no two are exactly alike, and I find the imprecision and asymmetry of faceting in even the "best cuts" adorably charming, and I love love love looking at photos that highlight that! IRL, though, where light return is the first thing I notice, not picturesque facet structure, the RB has more impact (in these larger sizes). ETA Kinda like DS just said - there are performance advantages to precision-cutting that I wouldn't want to give up, but I dislike the idea of precision-cut faux-antiques so...dilemma!

3. I tend to favour big flashes of colour from big facets over smaller splintery sparks from small facets(well, to a point!). Objectively, of course, some facet shapes and sizes and groupings perform better in some types of lights than others. If we were talking about sub-1ct stones an OEC would be my clear preference for sheer facet size, asymmetries and inconsistencies be damned, but at 2.3ct+ w/ shorter LGF (thread w/ stone details here ) you've got a mix of giant facets and small facets that must make your stone a dazzler in all sorts of lights! OECs are more specialized IMO - they shine in certain types of lights but don't perform nearly as well in others. Like you I only wanted the one Big Stone, so for me the all-rounder workhorse RB was a no-brainer!



At the end of the day you have to love your stone, for whatever reasons... There are some definite advantages to true antiques - like finding beautiful stones at incredible prices - you're lucky to have a larger OEC so you have a solid point of comparison, I'll be really interested to see what you decide!!

 

[aljdewey]

But Alj...would you sell your 3 stone e-ring? I mean, I love your giant OEC, but your three-stone...there is something so special about it.

I know that Mara's 2.3 isn't her original stone, so sentiment be damned. But speaking for myself, I am sitting here with a NEW blingy, gorgeous old stone 3 stone ring. And I'm mesmerized. And then my eyes drifted back toward my e-ring and I found myself softly smiling. It's my e-ring, and it's my love...and nothing, not even a new piece of far out bling makes me feel the way my -ering does. It's ever faithful.

Of course, I was smart enough to go for a cushion.

T-Gal, I wouldn't sell my 3-stone ring.....but I don't think that's a comparable scenario. You and I both have the original stones our husband proposed to us with, and we're both hugely sentimental about them. This isn't the stone G proposed to Mara with; that was four stones again, and even when they bought that original stone, they did so knowing it would be upgraded at some point in the future. Her wedding band is sentimental, of course, but if anything on her e-ring is, it's the setting. That's the original one G proposed to her with, and she can add a few stones to it where the peg head is now and continue to wear it.

I do think my 3-stone is incredibly special too, but it's also important to note that the $$ I have tied up in my ring isn't nearly what hers is; if I had that much tied up and not being used, I'd probably be doing the same thing. I would have a super-hard time justifying owning a $16-20K value stone that seldom came out of my jewelry box. That's just way more wasteful than I can feel comfortable with, so I do see where she's coming from. If I were in that position, the sentimentalist in me would either repurpose the rest of the setting with a colored stone or dismantle the ring and reuse the original sidestones.

Ohhhhhhhhh..............and your ring is done??!! How the hell did I miss that!!??? Off to check now!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Mara my thought about having two was a short term thing: Have the two stones, put one in the safe, and then make an informed decision later, in a few months or so.

On the other hand, life is short, do what you want. I know many people here counsel NOT selling key peices for fear of regret... but maybe you are not the type of person to look back and regret. I am not. And there are always other diamonds You and I are probably a *little* similar, upgraded a bunch of times, like to collect old cuts, probably don't look back and regret the ones you sold/traded in much, do you?

Yssie: your comments about cut perfection and OECs is spot on. I have seen two or three in my ever changing collection that had mind clean optics, though, even for me!

 

[ihy138]

Really interesting post, Yssie. I read somewhere that old cuts were cut to maximize light performance from light entering from the sides (lights were not on the ceiling back then, but in the form of lamps/candles on the walls), while modern RBs are cut to maximize light entering from the top. You are so right that OECs just command a different type of attention. Old cuts are more for my enjoyment because I get to admire the faceting up close, and RBs are for the enjoyment of everyone else!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

 

[yssie]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

I dunno... I think a lot of it is going to depend on timing. I think it's a legitimate concern.

Issue #1: 2.3ct AGS0 J eyeclean SI2s are even harder to find on the secondary market, esp. if clarity grade inflation is an issue as some tradepeople have suggested in the last couple of years.

Issue #2: RBs are always going to be in demand - so prices will always increase. So there's some consistency and predictability in market value. I do not think other shapes have this same consistency - OECs are popular now and people will pay (relatively) high prices for them, but I think in some years their popularity will wane and if at that time Mara decides to go a different route offloading a high-price un-trendy un-pedigreed stone without taking a significant loss is likely to be a gigantic headache.

ETA: I still think that if she decides she *wants* the OEC then that's what she should get. Having a stone like hers wasting away in a drawer is terrible!

 

[InnaR]

Mara,
I came to this board to learn more about diamonds and only after few upgrades of my E-ring I learned about old cuts. My last e-ring upgrade 1.8 D is in my safe box. It has all perfect angles and percentages. It's even a D (grabbed it from Whiteflash as an upgrade last May, before another spike in prices). I like it, but It doesn't have a kaleidoscope effect OECs have.
Last two years I buy/upgrade only old cuts and I don’t look back. They are not perfect, but they are not boring either. They are closer to artwork than MRBs or replicas. I would argue that the fact that they are imperfect is what makes each one of the unique.
I would suggest keeping your MRB and stalking ebay/rubylane for a giid finds.

Really interesting post, Yssie. I read somewhere that old cuts were cut to maximize light performance from light entering from the sides (lights were not on the ceiling back then, but in the form of lamps/candles on the walls), while modern RBs are cut to maximize light entering from the top.

I reset my last year ebay find 1.9 N OEC into vintage Soviet Rose gold setting and it mesmerizes me every time i look at it.
It glows from within, and shoots fire even in the office lighting. Maybe, the trick is in the completely open head of the ring.

Here is the setting. I have a stupid idea of resetting my other OEC and Tranny into similar type of setting .

http://www.rubylane.com/item/751483-RR003/RUSSIAN-Vintage-Ring-Synthetic-Alex78andrite

 

[Rhea]

I don't have anything of any size, but my heart has always been with old cuts. I attempted to first get one nearly 10 years ago, but failed because I put too much stock and colour and clarity - what can I say, I was young and dumb and bought into what people told me about G/H being the lowest I should go to be not yellow. I rarely wear my round brilliant engagement ring, preferring a smaller, more yellow transitional cut I own.

Live in the moment, get the old cut! A 2.32 ACA, J, SI2 (repeating stats from someone above) would be hard to find again, but the secondary market seems to be getting larger, with more businesses like JbEG, GOG, and Pearlman's taking consignments. I don't think it'd be impossible to find something comparable later if you wanted to switch back. A bit of a look, sure, but not impossible.

 

[Mara]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

JustGinger, your post is exactly what I was thinking. And DD's correct too. BUT...if I ever 'went back' in the future, and decided it had to be big, then I would probably want a 3c+. So chances are that I'd have to fork out $$$ anyway, I would have to do it today already to go from a 2.32 H&A to a 3c+ H&A... so I'd have to do the same thing in the future. If I had fork an extra $5k or something because I made 'this' switch today well that's not too bad actually.

And DD nope I am not one who has regrets on much. I am very much of the 'do what makes you happy right now' attitude in life and it's served me well thus far. I don't dwell much on the past or look too far into the future, because so many things are in flux and often change and are not what you might have expected! That's why it gets stuck in my craw to think of an expensive bauble in a jewelry box for years. And unappreciated. Gah.

 

[vinjewels]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

JustGinger, your post is exactly what I was thinking. And DD's correct too. BUT...if I ever 'went back' in the future, and decided it had to be big, then I would probably want a 3c+. So chances are that I'd have to fork out $$$ anyway, I would have to do it today already to go from a 2.32 H&A to a 3c+ H&A... so I'd have to do the same thing in the future. If I had fork an extra $5k or something because I made 'this' switch today well that's not too bad actually.

And DD nope I am not one who has regrets on much. I am very much of the 'do what makes you happy right now' attitude in life and it's served me well thus far. I don't dwell much on the past or look too far into the future, because so many things are in flux and often change and are not what you might have expected! That's why it gets stuck in my craw to think of an expensive bauble in a jewelry box for years. And unappreciated. Gah.

Was just going to lurk on this one, but justginger and Mara hit my thoughts exactly. Sounds like your heart made the decision already, but trying to make your head 100% agree is a feat sometimes.

 

[aljdewey]

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

Mara's stone isn't AGS0 - it's a GIA. (Can't recall if it's EX-EX or VG-EX; there was a point at which GIA was dinging for even slight painting, and I seem to recall when we looked at the stone that JP noted it had that slight bit of painting). Regardless, her stone would satisfy AGS0 performance requirements for cut, and it's a FABULOUS stone.

I do think it's interesting that the secondary market does seem to be growing in activity with the rise in diamond prices. Five or so years ago, secondary market was barely ever mentioned on PS. People traded their stones back to retailers who resold them, so while some stones did find homes with multiple PSers, it was rarely on the secondary market. DB and the Preloved forum, combined with ebay combing, have really seemed to boost the secondary activity, and if prices continue to escalate, I think it might get even easier to source there a few years from now.

We're all looking for a bargain, I think!

 

[vinjewels]

Just re-read my post and it sounds funny. Umm...Mara, I did mean you, ya know... I am so brain dead I have been referring to myself in the third person. Good luck with the decision!

 

[Mara]

I think your reasoning is sound. The only issue is that 2.3ct AGS0 diamonds do not come up on the secondary market very often.

Mara's stone isn't AGS0 - it's a GIA. (Can't recall if it's EX-EX or VG-EX; there was a point at which GIA was dinging for even slight painting, and I seem to recall when we looked at the stone that JP noted it had that slight bit of painting). Regardless, her stone would satisfy AGS0 performance requirements for cut, and it's a FABULOUS stone.

I do think it's interesting that the secondary market does seem to be growing in activity with the rise in diamond prices. Five or so years ago, secondary market was barely ever mentioned on PS. People traded their stones back to retailers who resold them, so while some stones did find homes with multiple PSers, it was rarely on the secondary market. DB and the Preloved forum, combined with ebay combing, have really seemed to boost the secondary activity, and if prices continue to escalate, I think it might get even easier to source there a few years from now.

We're all looking for a bargain, I think!

Yup I agree re the secondary, it's interesting for sure. Before it was only that people 1-2 options, now there are SO many more. And I've seen a few biggie stones on DB actually that made me go hmmm and there is a RB 2.14c on JBEG right now that I think is like 17k? So, not too bad.

 

[Rhino]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

so did she get a big discount?..

 

[Rhino]

I don't think the cost of modern cuts is rising any faster than that of old cuts, is it? I mean, at the present time old cuts are 'cheaper' than modern cuts (though that may be untrue if you truly compare apples to apples, and stick to the same GIA color/clarity grades when comparing prices). But are they, or are they not, rising in a near identical ratio?

Just pulling numbers from nowhere. Mara sells her current stone for $20,000 (I have NO idea of the specs on her stone, so this number is just an easy, rounded number). Buys a 3.3 carat OEC for the same amount. 3 years down the line do you think she will be unable to consign that 3.3 ct OEC and have it fetch enough to purchase another 2.32 ct modern cut ON THE USED MARKET? Because I think she could. It might take some time and patience to find a) the right buyer for the 3.3 ct OEC, and b) the right seller for the modern cut, but I think it would be entirely plausible. And chances are much better of finding a suitable replacement modern stone than it would be if she did it the other way around and was trying to replace a 3.3 ct OEC.

Maybe she would take a bit of a hit. But be completely priced out of the market, as if a 3.3 ct OEC is worthless? I can't imagine that.

You're correct Ginger. Apples for apples the pricing has risen on OEC's just as they have on modern RB's. Only when the OEC's are EGL graded (not all EGL's mind you) do they seem to be a better buy but after careful examination the story is generally the same ... you get what you pay for. Exceptions to this rule can be found on ebay with sellers who don't quite know what they have but then you are taking a bit of a risk as they may be over pricing but even if they are selling at a good buy or less, will it have the appearance you're ultimately after? Just because a diamond is an OEC is no guarantee it's going to be beautiful. The reason why PS regulars back in the day were not thrilled about them (including me) is that they are generally cut poorly and have optics that suffer either from extraneous leakage or head/body obstruction. It's good if you can cherry pick or have someone cherry pick for you who understands what appearance it is you prefer. Otherwise it can turn into a very expensive and drawn out venture of buying, returning, buying, returning etc. until you've found the right one and many do not have the patience for it.

All the best,
Rhino

 

[Rhino]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

so did she get a big discount?..

LOL ... well ... she'd say not big enough.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I know is, she has an amazing ring now! And I want an AVC and AVR.

 

[bright ice]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

Rhino, I LOVE it that your wife chose an old, warm cut when she has so many beautiful diamonds to choose from

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

Rhino, I LOVE it that your wife chose an old, warm cut when she has so many beautiful diamonds to choose from

I think it is interesting too since she could have anything she wants...but it is a large, warm, AVC old cut.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks everyone..! Thoughts appreciated.

Jon...can't help but think your wife probably knows she could switch back to a RB if she wanted to, I mean look at what she has at her fingertips?!

Yes but it might interest you to know that when opportunity presented itself to trade again, she did the same except larger and warmer!

Rhino, I LOVE it that your wife chose an old, warm cut when she has so many beautiful diamonds to choose from

I think it is interesting too since she could have anything she wants...but it is a large, warm, AVC old cut.

Well, to be clear, an AVC is an old syle cut . A fair distinction given the nature of the discussion here. Mara is considering true antiques, leakage, head obstruction, and all those warts.

 

[ariel144]

Thanks Mara for an interesting thread here.

I cannot be a part of your survey as I have not had a MRB and switched to an old cut but it seems to me that you could easier get a nice MRB later the size you want than an OEC as obviously the supply of old antique stones is limited. And good performers even more limited. Sad that they take the antique cuts and recut them into MRB's.

I went to a company that buys used stones and he had a GIA 5c cushion brilliant I VVS1 and the price was $65,000 which is a very good price for that quality, it was at his NY office so I could not look at it but the lady had overpaid for the stone to begin with. But it is a good place to look for used modern and and probably old cut stones... the people who buy them used and resell. The guy also told me he pays more for cushions and round brilliants than any other style because those are the two styles everyone is looking for now and they can move them quicker.

Go with what you like and appeals to you now. Who knows, you may never want a MRB again when you find the right OEC of your dreams. I agree with Jon that those on a limited budget would be ahead of the game to go with an AVR or AVC that is a proven performer. As you know, Unless you can find a stone locally that you can inspect before buying, you can waste a lot of money sending stones back and forth trying to find a good performing stone.

I always loved the square-ish cushion cuts until I saw those AVR's and OEC's and now they are my fav's but if i found the right OMB or antique cushion I might go with that...still waiting for my funds to come in to get started but it is fun looking at all those trying to decide what to go with now. MRB's just never appealed to me but everyone else seems to love them.

Good luck on your decision, but I vote ...go for the OEC and you will probably say, what took me so long? And let someone else enjoy your beautiful MRB.

 

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The reason why PS regulars back in the day were not thrilled about them (including me) is that they are generally cut poorly and have optics that suffer either from extraneous leakage or head/body obstruction. It's good if you can cherry pick or have someone cherry pick for you who understands what appearance it is you prefer. Otherwise it can turn into a very expensive and drawn out venture of buying, returning, buying, returning etc. until you've found the right one and many do not have the patience for it.

All the best,
Rhino[/quote]

I can point you to about 1000 customers who would disagree with you pretty strongly on this, Jonathan. And I haven't met anyone who has had to buy and return multiple antique stones in order to find a keeper. We each have our own bias here, but I think suggesting that most antique stones are "poorly" cut is a pretty broad and subjective statement. Maximum light return and the application of modern technology are not the only measures of beauty. Antique diamonds weren't cut for light return according to modern technological standards, it's true, but that doesn't make them "poor" or, in other words, inferior to newly cut goods.

There's room in the marketplace for true antiques as well as reproductions - no need to fear monger. Remember, your AV line wouldn't exist without all the antique diamonds that inspired it. If they're all so leaky and obstructed and poorly cut, it's a wonder so many antique dealers stay in business.

The market for antique diamonds is strong and, it's my belief, will only continue to get stronger as time marches on. There will never be any more antique diamonds than there are today. They are rare treasures for those who love and appreciate them. Of course, they're not for everyone. And it's wonderful that the beauty of antique diamonds has been renewed via modern cut antique style stones such as Jonathan's AV line and the other newly cut OEC and OMC type stones available. They're stunning as well, and have their own niche in the marketplace. They're perfect for those who crave precision and technology, but still want the facet style of an old cut. But for those who prefer the history, rarity, one-of-a-kindness and romance of a true antique stone, it's fortunate that there are still many available which haven't been recut and lost forever.