Old Cut Nuts... Have you switched from RB to Old Stone?

[InnaR]

From aesthetics point of view true old cuts are closer to nature, maybe that is why they are appealing to many of us. Like there are no two identical flowers or kittens or people there are no identical OECs. And I agree with Dreamer, the element of surprise is fascinating.
I own about 20 of them (in different sizes) that range from very rustic OMCs to transitional (I even stepped into 60s and bought a vintage Russian diamond, just out of curiosity to see how it will perform)and learned that for now my eyes love mostly those with very high crowns and tiny facets that have almost bubbly appearance and produce millions of fire flashes with each slight move of my hand. The more color I see, the more my eyes love it.
For me it's the excitement of unpredictability the waiting to be mesmerized with something that I HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE. And each of them did not let me down.
And they thought me a great life lesson, trust your own eyes. So as a consumer I transformed from a suspicious person who doesn't trust both vendor and myself unless I see the ASET, Serin and what not, to somebody who can understand and appreciate beauty for what it is. Interesting and exciting path. And I thank Pricescope community for that.
And I am trying to get this message through to other consumers, to tell them that there are other ways of judging the diamonds. And while I agree that four Cs are important. Sometimes the Cut is just the cut - MRB, Princess, OEC ..... And "cut is the king" doesn't nessessarily means - has to be ideal or cut for optimal performance. It might also mean - "i just love the cut of this stone. the cutter did an amazing work".
I made a long path that started at the Tiffany four years ago and finished with stalking second/third hand Ebay finds.

 

[Circe]

Inns, what are the three ways of which you speak? Tech (sarin, ASET, etc.), eyes (self-explanatory), and ...? Haven't had my coffee yet, apologies if I'm missing something obvious.

 

[InnaR]

Circe,
I updated my post, and will copy it here. Didn't have a chance to get my coffee as well.

And I am trying to get this message through to other consumers, to tell them that there are other ways of judging the diamonds. And while I agree that four Cs are important. Sometimes the Cut is just the cut - MRB, Princess, OEC ..... And "cut is the king" doesn't necessarily means - has to be ideal or cut for optimal performance. It might also mean - "i just love the cut of this stone. the cutter did an amazing work".
I can also add, that true pursuers of beauty won't settle down with the most symmetrical thing, it's boring. They will keep chasing the one quirky thing, that will mesmerize them.
We live in post industrial age. And I think what we beginning to witness diamond market catching up with the rest of the markets where customers realization that what is produced with the use of high technology is boring and lifeless. Market reacted with different fancy cuts, but I guess that is not enough either. We want the one of kind, that handmade, the authentic.

 

[CaratLover2]

Kasey, Inna has owned stones from the AV line and has posted about her journey to the realization that precision-cut antique styles don't do it for her the way true antiques do. Given her personal experience with both, she is in an excellent position to provide educated opinions and commentary, as are you and anyone else who has spent quality time with both types.

A little restraint wouldn't go amiss.

Thank you for your advice Yssie-but I did not say anything that requires restraint.I have never said anything on PS that I regret or have to apologize for.

I'm with you Kasey. Men and new buyers!! Really

 

[ericad]

Anyone here a Friends fan? This reminds me of Ross and Phoebe and the Apothecary table

Ross bought a reproduction table at Pottery Barn and told Phoebe it was an antique original because she wanted an original, one of a kind piece.

Which table is superior? Which is more beautiful?

I think we'd all agree that they are both equal and beautiful and will appeal to different buyers, yes? And they usually won't appeal to the same buyer. The person who wants the antique just wants the antique, and will spend the time searching for the right piece because part of its beauty and appeal is in the age and rarity of the piece. The person who wants the look, but with the precision and of modern technology and production volume, will go with Pottery Barn and will love it. Some people will need to try both before they decide what they prefer.

There's a market for both, and both deserve respect for what they are.

 

[CaratLover2]

I couldn't agree more!

 

[fridays_child]

This discussion is very interesting! As a newcomer to pricescope, I had the distinct impression before reading this thread that pretty much everyone loved the AVC/AVR and that it was the "ultimate 'old' cut" for most people here. I knew that some preferred the true antique cut stone, as I do, but it seemed as if many preferred old european and old mine cuts because of their lower price point/better value. It's interesting to find that doesn't seem to be the case at all

While my own choice will always be a true old stone, I agree with Erica and others that have said it's great to be able to have both to choose from. As with all the other factors in buying diamonds, it just boils down to one's budget and personal taste.

To Mara, the original poster, I say go for the old stone - it seems that is what you are truly drawn to! I'm looking forward to seeing your choice, your OEC ring you recently posted is really beautiful, I love the facets on that stone.

 

[kathley]

Anyone here a Friends fan? This reminds me of Ross and Phoebe and the Apothecary table

Ross bought a reproduction table at Pottery Barn and told Phoebe it was an antique original because she wanted an original, one of a kind piece.

Which table is superior? Which is more beautiful?

I think we'd all agree that they are both equal and beautiful and will appeal to different buyers, yes? And they usually won't appeal to the same buyer. The person who wants the antique just wants the antique, and will spend the time searching for the right piece because part of its beauty and appeal is in the age and rarity of the piece. The person who wants the look, but with the precision and of modern technology and production volume, will go with Pottery Barn and will love it. Some people will need to try both before they decide what they prefer.

There's a market for both, and both deserve respect for what they are.

Erica, I could not agree with you more. When I was looking for the perfect OEC, I took my daughter with me as she appreciates antiques as well. We could look at the same stone, and it would appeal to me and yet not to her. Even though they were both OEC's. Or she would point out a stone that she loved whereas I wasn't "feeling it". Her eyes found and appreciated nuances that mine did not. And it was the search for the perfect blend of nuances for me that I was after in finding the perfect stone. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and several OEC stones later, I found "the one".

As far as any regrets as to switching to an old stone, I have none as my OEC makes my heart dance every time I look at it. Which is often! I cannot say the same for all of other stones that I have owned. For me, it is the combination of optics/performance and the knowledge that my diamond is like no other. It is an antique and I often wonder who had this diamond first, what they were doing in the era, and who the cutter was. It has a unique history and to a degree, soul.

 

[aljdewey]

This discussion is very interesting! As a newcomer to pricescope, I had the distinct impression before reading this thread that pretty much everyone loved the AVC/AVR and that it was the "ultimate 'old' cut" for most people here. I knew that some preferred the true antique cut stone, as I do, but it seemed as if many preferred old european and old mine cuts because of their lower price point/better value. It's interesting to find that doesn't seem to be the case at all

I've only seem AVCs/AVRs in photos, but what I have seen of them doesn't move me, and I wouldn't consider them as substitues from truly old stones.

For me, the very appeal of old cuts IS the fact that not everything is symmetrical, not everything is "lined up", and therefore, they all have their own personalities. Each one has it's own flavor, and that is what draws me to them.

I agree with Erica that it's WAY underestimating consumers to suggest that everyone rolls over and plays dead, so to speak, just because something is an old cut. Most afficiandos of old stones don't hold that view at *all*; we've all seen some really unattractive stones that look awful, and perhaps that's what makes us appreciate the nice ones that much more. We realize it wasn't cut-by-numbers clinically and the craftmanship it took to achieve a beautiful stone.

 

[audball]

I love the Friends reference! One of my favorites!! And then how she HAS to have the lamp...hah.

Let me preface this by saying that I personally haven't seen an AVC or AVR in person, but that I adore the ones I've seen here on PS and would ultimately LOVE to own one someday.

But I tend to agree with others. It is cut to reflect the style of the true old cuts, but while each one is different because they are different stones, there is something similar among them (at least in photos) due to the precision cutting. I think it's beautiful, but I also get that it isn't for everyone.

Having seen (and now owning) a TRUE OEC oldie (but oh so goodie!), I have to say that they are truly breathtaking when you find one that isn't a dud. And to look at the reports/numbers you may not think it would be as amazing as it really is.

My stone is a .788ct J VS2. It measure 5.59 x 5.75 mm.
A comparable stone in this size for an AVR would cost more than double what I paid for my antique.

This is the closest example I can find. It's spread is about the same, carat weight just under, color one higher, clarity 2 lower.
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8246/ ---> This stone is available for $3,195.

$3,200 is more than my ENTIRE ring including a designer setting cost. My stone came in at $1,200 + $170 for the partial recut (total $1,370). To look at the ASET, Idealscope, and Sarin, you wouldn't be so impressed. The AVR reports are far more impressive. But then use your eyes...what does this video tell you? I'd be willing to tell you that my imperfect OEC is dazzling, sparkly, and so yummy that you just can't stand it. I'm willing to bet diamonds that my little antique could hold it's own in the ring (pun totally intended).

VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP4t8KA_Xtw

 

[GemFever]

When I was looking for the perfect OEC, I took my daughter with me as she appreciates antiques as well. We could look at the same stone, and it would appeal to me and yet not to her. Even though they were both OEC's. Or she would point out a stone that she loved whereas I wasn't "feeling it". Her eyes found and appreciated nuances that mine did not. And it was the search for the perfect blend of nuances for me that I was after in finding the perfect stone. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and several OEC stones later, I found "the one".

Kathley, may I ask if your daughter agreed with you about "the one"? I'm also turning into an old-cut aficionado, but I'd like to think that other people would also be smitten by my stones In other words, I wouldn't want the beauty of my stone to be so much in the eyes of the beholder that other people would look at and think, "oh... is that what you're so crazy about? I don't quite see it..."

Maybe this is too much of a threadjack though. If it is, I apologize. This has been quite a fascinating thread!

 

[TravelingGal]

Have we lost Mara?

And that apothecary table, gah! My cousin was OBSESSED with it, and I could never understand why? Which goes to show you, different strokes....

I personally can see the appeal of AVR/AVC. When I was ering hunting, I really wanted the symmetry...the perfection. I wanted the GIA ex/ex. Nothing less would do.

For people who like the look of old cuts, but have that bizarre anal desire for perfect, it's a great solution. You gotta remember that not everyone has been around this board for eons and has the knowledge to go with it. Throw an absolute NEWBIE in here and it's a helluva lot to learn. I think we forget sometimes how much we have learned just by BEING here for so long, through osmosis, almost.

I think the ones with more education can pooh pooh the the idea that consumers will just think an OEC is great because it's an OEC. But I think after seeing a gazillion photos here on PS, our eyes are trained to look for certain things. I bet for every ebay OEC success story that is posted here, there are 3 times more stories of people who ended up with poorer stones, because they have been sucked into the "it's an OEC, and OECs are awesome" vibe that's been going on around here.

Now, I'm at the point in my PS life where I don't want perfection. I like quirks in a stone, and I love haphazard glittery sparkle. But that because I've been there, done that on the "perfect optics" thing.

Plus for a lot of us, I think half the thrill is in the hunt. Otherwise, why not just shop at OWD or JBEG, who has beautiful stones? We're putting our knowledge to the test and searching for treasure...and deals!!

 

[kathley]

When I was looking for the perfect OEC, I took my daughter with me as she appreciates antiques as well. We could look at the same stone, and it would appeal to me and yet not to her. Even though they were both OEC's. Or she would point out a stone that she loved whereas I wasn't "feeling it". Her eyes found and appreciated nuances that mine did not. And it was the search for the perfect blend of nuances for me that I was after in finding the perfect stone. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and several OEC stones later, I found "the one".

Kathley, may I ask if your daughter agreed with you about "the one"? I'm also turning into an old-cut aficionado, but I'd like to think that other people would also be smitten by my stones In other words, I wouldn't want the beauty of my stone to be so much in the eyes of the beholder that other people would look at and think, "oh... is that what you're so crazy about? I don't quite see it..."

Maybe this is too much of a threadjack though. If it is, I apologize. This has been quite a fascinating thread!

No apologies needed, GemFever! My daughter absolutely loves the diamond that I found and admires it often as well. My diamond has turned her interests into owning an OEC one day as she "was" a die-hard RB kind of person. Since OEC's have their own personalities from stone to stone, it is ultimatley personal preference as to which stone you will choose if you could only choose one. Also, the women at my office look at my ring often when I am busy doing a task as it really catches their eyes. I have even seen the men do it too

 

[Rhino]

This is really a great thread because it demonstrates the diversity of opinion that exists on the market. I just want ya'll to know there isn't an opinion I don't empathize with as we attempt to serve people in the widest variety/types of diamonds that exist including but not limited to the super ideals. Just one clarification though ...

I agree with with Ericad. I personally love the quirks of fancies and consider true antique/vintage stones fancy cuts. Whereas I consider the AVR's much closer to RB with the same 'cookie cutter' issue Aljdewey pointed out.

They are only similar to H&A in the respect of precision and the end goal of the cutting (Optical Symmetry, optics tweaked according to AGS philosophy, etc.). They are however radically different in appearance from a Hearts & Arrows just as a Star129 is radically different in appearance from an H&A.

One other point of note ... emphasis is being drawn to the "cookie cutter" precision. Two very important elements must be kept in mind when you consider any precision cut diamond.

1. Even if a cutter takes his time and is careful to cut such a product (which takes approx 4x longer than a standard cut), what you see IRL will never be as precise as what you see under critical analysis (ASET, IdealScope, Sarin) etc. because of the simple fact that we live in an asymetrical world with asymetrical lighting. Anyone who has owned a precision cut diamond knows exactly what I'm talking about. The pavilion facets of a Hearts & Arrows, Solasfera, Star129, August Vintage OEC, etc. never all light up simultaneously at one time albeit there are some environments when it comes close. I say this to point out that cookie cutter precision does not equate to the same ol boring appearance regardless of the lighting. Quite the contrary ... the goal of precision cutting with an eye to optics is to help that diamond look its best no matter what lighting environment it is brought into and compared and is why these diamonds will be rewarded by the labs with the appropriate grades.
2. Precision cutting does not disqualify a diamond from being in a certain category of cut. It has been suggested that AVR are not OEC's or that AVC's are not OMB's. While it is true that they are not antiques that statement couldn't be further from the truth. It is facet structure that determines its cut category. I can list numerous case in points but would we say that a Hearts & Arrows round is not a round brilliant cut by virtue of the fact that its precision cut? On a GIA/AGS report it says round brilliant. In the same way an AVR is an OEC and AGS rightfully describes it as such on their Report. The facet structure is OEC and that's what makes it OEC. Same with "vintage cushions". Most of what you see today that is sold as vintage cushions are not in fact antiques yet they are still referred to as vintage cushions. Why? The same exact reasons above. The cutting facilities are following the ancient facet structure of the OMB's, hence they are referred to as vintage cushions. AVC is no less vintage than any other new cushion that is cut with the vintage facet structure.

It's like saying RB's are superior to emerald cuts. No, they aren't. They are just different. If you love Emerald cuts you aren't going to be happy with an RB. And if you love RB's you aren't going to be happy with an EC. There is no better. There is just different.

While this statement is true and I agree with you 110% Gypsy, the analogy is a tad misleading (not purposeful of course) as the comparison of an AVR to an OEC is not like comparing a RB to an emerald Cut. The facet structure and entire shape of a RB is 180 degrees different to an emerald cut. An AVR is identical in both shape and facet structure of an OEC. Ie. One doesn't look at an AVR and mistake it for anything other than what it is and what AGS calls it. Old European.

Sorry this went a little longer than expected but I did want to clarify the above. And let me also say for the record ... I have seen wonky OEC and OMB's and yes, even modern round brilliants that were just beautiful and have recorded on our YouTube channel. I am not against variety, quirkiness, asymmetry, etc. I am 110% for it and seek to learn and help each person we serve with their own individual needs and wants to what suits them. As part of that variety I also like to feature what I know the labs recognize as top tier. That's all. VIVA LA VARIETY!

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[GemFever]

Kathley - nice! I just looked up your stone and it is a beauty!

I wish I could add something on topic as well. I've never owned a RB, so it's hard for me to say anything. But I do think searching for a beautiful large OEC would be lots and lots of fun

 

[InnaR]

Jon,
From what I have seen (one in a real life and many on this board) AVRs remind me more of a transitional cuts than OECs.
The symmetrical snowflake pattern and lower crown resemble transitionals more than OEC. Also, the brighness discribed my some owners.
So I don't agree that AVRs are OECs and i want to point out that in my opinion they look more like transitionals, than OECs.
And about AGS, did the name come independantly from AGS after examining the stones or the vendor asked for that name to be on cerificates?

 

[Laila619]

Jon,
From what I have seen (one in a real life and many on this board) AVRs remind me more of a transitional cuts than OECs.
The symmetrical snowflake pattern and lower crown resemble transitionals more than OEC. Also, the brighness discribed my some owners.
So I don't agree that AVRs are OECs and i want to point out that in my opinion they look more like transitionals, than OECs.
And about AGS, did the name come independantly from AGS after examining the stones or the vendor asked for that name to be on cerificates?

I highly doubt a vendor can ask/tell a lab what to put on the certificate. That would defeat the whole purpose of independent, unbiased grading, no?

 

[Rhino]

Hi Inna,

Jon,
From what I have seen (one in a real life and many on this board) AVRs remind me more of a transitional cuts than OECs.
The symmetrical snowflake pattern and lower crown resemble transitionals more than OEC. Also, the brighness discribed my some owners.
So I don't agree that AVRs are OECs and i want to point out that in my opinion they look more like transitionals, than OECs.

I can show you actual OEC's that look almost identical to AVR's that are not transitional. Take the 5ct linked to earlier in this thread. Look at the optical symmetry of that one. It's ASET. It is genuine OEC's along that line that were my inspiration. Another good example would be Erika's (at least what I've seen from pix). Also, in the world of gemology a diamond is either a round brilliant or an OEC. While here on the boards use often ues the term "transitional", that is foreign to the labs. It is either RB or OEC and the AVR is in no way a modern rb.

And about AGS, did the name come independantly from AGS after examining the stones or the vendor asked for that name to be on cerificates?

Independantly. AGS does not bend to the suggestion or will of one person. They call it like they see it and counsel with a team of gemologists.

Kindest regards,
Jonathan

 

[kathley]

Kathley - nice! I just looked up your stone and it is a beauty!

I wish I could add something on topic as well. I've never owned a RB, so it's hard for me to say anything. But I do think searching for a beautiful large OEC would be lots and lots of fun

Thank you, GemFever. And you are correct, searching for a beautiful large OEC is lots of fun!!!

 

[aljdewey]

For people who like the look of old cuts, but have that bizarre anal desire for perfect, it's a great solution. You gotta remember that not everyone has been around this board for eons and has the knowledge to go with it. Throw an absolute NEWBIE in here and it's a helluva lot to learn. I think we forget sometimes how much we have learned just by BEING here for so long, through osmosis, almost.

I think the ones with more education can pooh pooh the the idea that consumers will just think an OEC is great because it's an OEC. But I think after seeing a gazillion photos here on PS, our eyes are trained to look for certain things. I bet for every ebay OEC success story that is posted here, there are 3 times more stories of people who ended up with poorer stones, because they have been sucked into the "it's an OEC, and OECs are awesome" vibe that's been going on around here.

But TGal, that's true of ANY product that people have little experience with - it's not unique to OECs. In fact, I'd argue that it often works the other way around here.......everyone drinks the "only precision AGS0 cuts are desirable" koolaid, and because they lack experience, they follow the majority herd. Not really much different to me.

Any time inexperienced buyers buy with little to no guidance, mistakes can be made. How many "did I get a good deal" threads have we seen over the years, many containing pitiful stones? There is no substitute for learning; some people learn through good counsel, and others prefer learning through their own missteps.

I'd agree that the AVR/AVCs can be a safer route for someone who desires a less-current facet pattern but doesn't want to invest time learning, just as AGS0 stones are a safer route for someone who just wants a great modern RB and isn't interested in becoming a diamond professor, and there absolutely is a place for that.

 

[Laila619]

I wonder if OECs are just what's trendy on PS now. A few years ago, nearly everyone was all about AGS 0 rounds. Then there was the cushion craze. Now it seems like everyone wants a good OEC (which I can understand, they are gorgeous!)

 

[coati]

I wonder if OECs are just what's trendy on PS now. A few years ago, nearly everyone was all about AGS 0 rounds. Then there was the cushion craze. Now it seems like everyone wants a good OEC (which I can understand, they are gorgeous!)

I'd say old cuts in general are very trendy on PS right now, and that includes antique cushions--both old and newly styled. Antique and vintage jewelry is very popular. "The New Romantic" look has broad reach. When big-box diamond jewelry retailers start pushing vintage-styled lines, then yeah, the trend has taken hold--after a long build. PS is interesting in that we see trend surges. Someone posts a style, and then that style consumes the site for a time. Sometimes PS trends reflect the larger bridal market, sometimes not. It's interesting.

Mara's question: Have you switched from a RB to an old stone? I haven't switched, but I own both. If I had my druthers, my larger rb and larger OEC would merge to become a ginormous old-cut of either round or cushion outline. Because hey! I like size! I'd probably put that ginormous old cut in a chunky bezel for an even larger effect, because hey! I can pull it off. I like a bolder bauble.

The caveat? That new stone would have to have faceting and proportions like my 2.94, and thus far, I have not found one like it. I cherry-picked that stone, and I doubt I'll find another. This is why I like old cuts.

...oh and eye candy is also necessary. Here are some "old cuts" that I doubt ANY of us would kick out of bed for eating crackers.

https://www.pricescope.com/blog/cullinan-diamonds-go-display-queens-diamond-jubilee

 

[TravelingGal]

I wonder if OECs are just what's trendy on PS now. A few years ago, nearly everyone was all about AGS 0 rounds. Then there was the cushion craze. Now it seems like everyone wants a good OEC (which I can understand, they are gorgeous!)

I'd say old cuts in general are very trendy on PS right now, and that includes antique cushions--both old and newly styled. Antique and vintage jewelry is very popular. "The New Romantic" look has broad reach. When big-box diamond jewelry retailers start pushing vintage-styled lines, then yeah, the trend has taken hold--after a long build. PS is interesting in that we see trend surges. Someone posts a style, and then that style consumes the site for a time. Sometimes PS trends reflect the larger bridal market, sometimes not. It's interesting.

Mara's question: Have you switched from a RB to an old stone? I haven't switched, but I own both. If I had my druthers, my larger rb and larger OEC would merge to become a ginormous old-cut of either round or cushion outline. Because hey! I like size! I'd probably put that ginormous old cut in a chunky bezel for an even larger effect, because hey! I can pull it off. I like a bolder bauble.

The caveat? That new stone would have to have faceting and proportions like my 2.94, and thus far, I have not found one like it. I cherry-picked that stone, and I doubt I'll find another. This is why I like old cuts.

...oh and eye candy is also necessary. Here are some "old cuts" that I doubt ANY of us would kick out of bed for eating crackers.

https://www.pricescope.com/blog/cullinan-diamonds-go-display-queens-diamond-jubilee

I saw those brooches earlier when I looked at the blog. Do you think any of them might make a good 3 stone?

 

[coati]

I saw those brooches earlier when I looked at the blog. Do you think any of them might make a good 3 stone?

Yeah--the royals are big re-setters anyway. They'd fit right in!

 

[TravelingGal]

For people who like the look of old cuts, but have that bizarre anal desire for perfect, it's a great solution. You gotta remember that not everyone has been around this board for eons and has the knowledge to go with it. Throw an absolute NEWBIE in here and it's a helluva lot to learn. I think we forget sometimes how much we have learned just by BEING here for so long, through osmosis, almost.

I think the ones with more education can pooh pooh the the idea that consumers will just think an OEC is great because it's an OEC. But I think after seeing a gazillion photos here on PS, our eyes are trained to look for certain things. I bet for every ebay OEC success story that is posted here, there are 3 times more stories of people who ended up with poorer stones, because they have been sucked into the "it's an OEC, and OECs are awesome" vibe that's been going on around here.

But TGal, that's true of ANY product that people have little experience with - it's not unique to OECs. In fact, I'd argue that it often works the other way around here.......everyone drinks the "only precision AGS0 cuts are desirable" koolaid, and because they lack experience, they follow the majority herd. Not really much different to me.

Any time inexperienced buyers buy with little to no guidance, mistakes can be made. How many "did I get a good deal" threads have we seen over the years, many containing pitiful stones? There is no substitute for learning; some people learn through good counsel, and others prefer learning through their own missteps.

I'd agree that the AVR/AVCs can be a safer route for someone who desires a less-current facet pattern but doesn't want to invest time learning, just as AGS0 stones are a safer route for someone who just wants a great modern RB and isn't interested in becoming a diamond professor, and there absolutely is a place for that.

I see what you're saying Alj, and I do agree. Although I do think the difference with AGS0 herd and the OEC herd is that the current OEC herd trend right now is to find an old cut stone for a steal. Everyone who has an old cut right now (and I mean EVERYONE I've talked to, including present company) does NOT say JUST the following:

"Look at my gorgeous OEC!"

Nope. Instead they say:

"Look my gorgeous OEC. And OMG, (whisper) THIS is what I paid for it - isn't that amazing??" Of course, the price is between friends...it's not plastered over on PS or anything. But the whispers whoosh through the air around here.

So maybe I'm reading into it, but I do feel there is this vibe to not only find a great OEC, but to find one at a song. Hence the more it happens, the more something like a AVR doesn't seem like a smart buy to some. But in the scheme of retail diamonds, it's a nice stone for the cut style at a fair price (again, if you're comparing to retail). Like you said, it's a good safe route.

 

[aljdewey]

Laila, I think it's just a life-cycle thing, with a couple of contributing factors. Two that seem obvious to me are more traffic and pricing influence.

PS hasn't really been around that long - just a bit over 10 years, I think, and those of us in that early first wave were largely inexperienced. There were few if any 'seasoned' consumers , so most of the 'experience' influence came from the vendors, who were pretty much all proponents of top-make stones. We were pretty much a one-flavor ice-cream store. . No one talked much about colored stones, antique stones, or many other things. Now there is a more populous group of experienced consumers, so more people that can expose us all to other flavors, and one of those is a love for old stones.

The other is certainly price - as prices rise, the market is being pushed to limits for folks to hit their desired size range without sacrificing beyond their comfort level in color/clarity/budget, so old cuts provided easy relief. That's changing as the demand for old cuts increases, but I can see where it contributed to the swell for OECs, too.

 

[coati]

Also wanted to add--based on TGal's post above about price. Rising diamond prices are driving folks to the secondary market--no doubt. In the past few years we've seen many new secondhand bling sites emerge. (We are actually working on a reselling guide--with the help of some pros--to give folks more options) The deals and steals will rise in price too--and have been rising for years. ( )

...but not all old-cut nuts are all about the deal, and some will pay regular "market" prices for these gems. I do dislike seeing old-cuts relegated to the bargain bin.

 

[Gypsy]

John to me the AVC is just a different facet pattern ideal round. Chunky facet ideal Round. MRB can trace their history back to OECs too. I do think they are much close to a MRB than an OEC, exactly because they are perfected OECs. I won't be buying an Octavia anytime either. It's an idealized square emerald, but it's not for me (although I do prefer it to the AVCs I've seen). Neither are for me and I've seen them in person. I don't like the 'idealized' line of fancies. They lose their charm for me. And the AVC becomes cookie cutter exactly because of the uniformity that is required by a branded line and a set facet pattern demands and precision cutting standards. (I do not think Octavia's are cookie cutter, there is more variation in them).

I still stand my my comments that for me, and in my very valid opinion, a true antique OEC is much closer to an EC than a AVC. You can buy AVCs by the numbers. You know without looking what the facets will look like. You know they will have great light performance. WIth EC's you can't buy them by the numbers. You can narrow them, but there are always outliers. They are unique, they have different looks from one to the next, and you can love one with a big table or prefer a high crown and small table and both can be beautiful. And have great light return, and one can have great numbers bust still be a dog with poor performance. A Good/good EC can show amazing performance and an Ex/Ex can make you want to put a spork in your eye. And they have personality. That's why true antique OEC's and Transitionals are special, and that's why I think they are closer to ECs. They are much more unique and even when you get a good match, it's not exact down. The same way people end up with dog EC's is the same way they end up with dog OEC's= lack of research and knowledge.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. Although I am confused because you quoted my post once saying you agreed with me, and then later quoted it and dissected and disagreed with it.

And no, Mara's not here anymore. I really feel the AVC interruption kinda jacked the thread. Which is sad. It feels like whenever there is an old cut thread anymore Jon, where can you jump in to within the forum rule it turns into a post about why AVC's are so much better than real old cuts.

You have beautiful diamonds Jon, but I WISH you could see how you are alienating people with the way you are defending and promoting them. Already in this thread you posted inflammatory comments that have offended a bunch of people you didn't have to (most of them owning real old cuts). Just take a deep breath and step back and let the beauty diamonds speak for themselves. Sometimes less is more.

 

[audball]

You have beautiful diamonds Jon, but I WISH you could see how you are alienating people with the way you are defending and promoting them. Already in this thread you posted inflammatory comments that have offended a bunch of people you didn't have to (most of them owning real old cuts). Just take a deep breath and step back and let the beauty diamonds speak for themselves. Sometimes less is more.

Ditto. The AV line is beautiful, nobody thinks it isn't. And they have there place, you certainly have buyers. But so do the other well cut, quirky, charming antiques. As kenny would say...people vary. Just because you have lovely stones that are precision cut doesn't mean everyone wants to drink your koolaid.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think the ones with more education can pooh pooh the the idea that consumers will just think an OEC is great because it's an OEC. But I think after seeing a gazillion photos here on PS, our eyes are trained to look for certain things. I bet for every ebay OEC success story that is posted here, there are 3 times more stories of people who ended up with poorer stones, because they have been sucked into the "it's an OEC, and OECs are awesome" vibe that's been going on around here.

I agree with this 100%. I know a lot about diamonds and diamond cut, and I have spent a good amount of time in the last six months learning about old cuts, seeing them in person, looking at tonnes and tonnes of photos and learning about the different facet patterns you can see. That is the amount of investment of time and learning it takes to be able to buy old cuts on ebay successfully. And I know it takes that amount of time, and that people newer to old cuts cannot always tell if an OEC is a good one or not, because I have helped people here on PS and off the boards to evaluate potential buys -- And they ask "How can you tell that is not a well cut stone? How can you tell that is not an old european cut?" So yes, I think if you are new to old cuts you cannot "walk" into ebay and be successful.

You can use a trusted and reliable vendor of course, and we know a few good ones on PS. Or you can buy a precision chunky cut. And I think those are great options for the vast majority of consumers.