Old Cut Nuts... Have you switched from RB to Old Stone?

[Kasey3]

(but anyone who has taken a look at AVC's especially knows they are not cookie cutter...they are very different in shape and personality from each other. AVR's are just well cut OEC's.)

I would disagree with that.

Jon, by no means I'm not trying to attack your cuts, but AVR is not a well cut OEC, and AVC is not a well cut OMC. They don't look like them, and they don't act like them.
They both are fancy modern cuts. Not as simple as H&A, but more like Princess of Hearts or Octavia.
I personally think that going after optimum light return actually took something away from the cut.
A market for them would probably consist from men and new buyers. Those who learned about four Cs and go after reports and numbers by the book. Those who have seen it all, will go after real old cuts, because they learned enough to trust their own eyes.

P.S. I was trying to say the same thing in Catia's post. Its important to tell people that they need to trust their eyes, and not the reports.

It wasn't Jon that said this-read the name of the person who posted this statement! I have a question for you...have you seen an AVC or AVR in person with your own eyes? Or do you just want to bash the cut every chance you get?

Also as a side note we can all agree that diamonds are beautiful-we are all captivated by them and we all have our opinions and personal favorites. Mara specifically asked for opinions from people who once had a MRB and traded for an OEC and did they regret it-all other opinions are just that. I actually did, and I would like to share my thoughts-but I don't want a debate about which cut is better. They are both beautiful!

I had to re-read it too Kasey. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that her little pinky finger forgot to hit the return button. She didn't say, "I disagree with the above, Jon." It read, "I disagree with the above. Jon..." It reads a bit different to me that way.

Thank you vinjewels for pointing that out. I must have read it too quickly!

 

[InnaR]

PS hasn't really been around that long - just a bit over 10 years, I think, and those of us in that early first wave were largely inexperienced. There were few if any 'seasoned' consumers , so most of the 'experience' influence came from the vendors, who were pretty much all proponents of top-make stones. We were pretty much a one-flavor ice-cream store. . No one talked much about colored stones, antique stones, or many other things.

Aljdewey,
That explains some things to me.

It's an amazing place, but sometimes it dose feel like a platform for product placement. For some reason direct communication with vendor makes people feel privileged and special. Especially if the name of the vendor gets mentioned in almost every post. If it's a prosumer forum it should stay this way, if it is a marketing tool serving to promote branded cuts, it should state it so, so people can turn their sense of the best judgement on before they log in.

Edit: I realize that this thread is not about vendors or Pricescope communinty. I cannot delete my last post, but this is my last one in this thread.
I gave my advice to Mara early in the thread - keep the RB, look for that one in a lifetime Ebay find.

 

[TravelingGal]

And no, Mara's not here anymore. I really feel the AVC interruption kinda jacked the thread. Which is sad. It feels like whenever there is an old cut thread anymore Jon, where can you jump in to within the forum rule it turns into a post about why AVC's are so much better than real old cuts.

I can't imagine Mara's not here because of a hijack. Mara's the type who would say "Yoo hoo, over here, focus people!"

 

[Gypsy]

And no, Mara's not here anymore. I really feel the AVC interruption kinda jacked the thread. Which is sad. It feels like whenever there is an old cut thread anymore Jon, where can you jump in to within the forum rule it turns into a post about why AVC's are so much better than real old cuts.

I can't imagine Mara's not here because of a hijack. Mara's the type who would say "Yoo hoo, over here, focus people!"

I agree with that. Those were two separate thoughts: Mara isn't here anymore. AND : I feel the interruption...

I know very well that Mara can get a thread back on track if she wanted to.

 

[Mara]

Haha...I have actually been reading from my phone over the last day+... just super busy. Too hard to respond on the phone.

I have to laugh a little to see the AVR vs OEC discussion because to me as someone said, AVR's are simply ideal cut stones cut to look like an OEC. They are beautiful. But I find them a little cold. Certainly still stunning. Just not for me. They do have optics though!

And as others have already said, you can definitely find stunning old cuts out there, I have seen more than a few. I *love* that line I've seen a few times thru this thread about how truly old stones are like an artistic piece, you can't really replicate it. I also love the stories that are behind a lot of these, we don't always know where the stone has been but I love it when you do. Just like anything, there are going to be duds too, not all old cuts are the stuff dreams are made of. I actually own a slightly wonky 1.4c OEC that I got for a song and set into a pendant, the table is slightly off center but set into rose gold, and closed up a little, the thing is fantastic. It's got scattered fine dark inclusions all over that you can't see with the naked eye. I love its personality. I have another stone, a .65c that if I could just feed growth hormones to and turn into a 3c, I surely would. I love the fat patterning. My OEC tranny 1.5c looks like a fat pillowy cushion with tons of tiny little flashing facets. They are all so different.

Coati...Oh how I wish you could find another stone that looks like yours because girl I'd be snatching that thing out of your hands and running for the hills so fast you'd only see the shadow of my tail! LOL.

I really appreciate all the thoughts from people who have been there done that on what I'm considering. I pretty much have made up my mind that my MRB will move onto a more loving home, it surely deserves it. It's just a matter of what I get in its stead. I have a stone I'm contemplating but not entirely sure on yet. My problem is I have champagne tastes (even OEC's have champagne tastes!) on a beer budget! LOL.

 

[TravelingGal]

I really appreciate all the thoughts from people who have been there done that on what I'm considering. I pretty much have made up my mind that my MRB will move onto a more loving home, it surely deserves it. It's just a matter of what I get in its stead. I have a stone I'm contemplating but not entirely sure on yet. My problem is I have champagne tastes (even OEC's have champagne tastes!) on a beer budget! LOL.

WHAT?

OK, me me me! ME! What 3 stone ring??? *******Off to list it**********

Oh alright, I'm kidding. I don't want to be disowned by my husband. Plus I've overblinged as it is...I am not worthy of the Mara-J-Rock.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I honestly don't care whether someone likes old cuts more than a new antique style stone (from Mark, Jon, Leon, etc). (...insert Kenny's line here...) I just don't know ANY vendor who carries a greater variety of stones than Good Old Gold, including real antique stones. They try to meet the customer's preferences. I have seen the videos where Jon has sourced old stones for people.

I agree that price is a huge factor in this, because I think the bargain factor has very strong appeal and a lot of people who would only buy excellent cut in a rb will settle for a lesser cut in an antique stone. Mara sees she can get a 3 ct. old stone for the money she could get from her 2 ct. rb. That is a big draw for people who want a larger stone and don't want to pay the current price of an ex cut rb. I don't blame them a bit. It is a great way to get a really large stone!

I would be extremely happy to have an antique stone at a great price. I'd just want it to be of the very highest cut quality and condition. Even 100 years ago, some stones were much better cut than others, obviously. Just like any other shape of diamond, I won't like them all, but I'll like the best of their kind!

And speaking of experience, I think I could choose an OEC as well as any other consumer here. It's just a matter of whether I want to spend the time and money sending for and potentially returning dozens of stones before I find the perfect one. So please be very careful about characterizing people here who choose newly cut antique stones as somehow lacking knowledge or experience, because it may simply be their preferred way to get a beautiful antique style stone with the greatest ease. Some of us have none to look at locally, and shipping can add up, especially with more valuable stones.

 

[Mara]

I agree that price is a huge factor in this, because I think the bargain factor has very strong appeal and a lot of people who would only buy excellent cut in a rb will settle for a lesser cut in an antique stone. Mara sees she can get a 3 ct. old stone for the money she could get from her 2 ct. rb. That is a big draw for people who want a larger stone and don't want to pay the current price of an ex cut rb. I don't blame them a bit. It is a great way to get a really large stone!

DS...I disagree that someone has to go from having an EX/EX MRB with hardly any light leakage to a 'lesser' cut...to me that's a misleading statement. I have a super-performing MRB. I don't want to 'sacrifice' anything to get a bigger stone and I certainly am not considering it in an OEC *simply* because it's cheaper that way. If I really just thought I wanted a larger MRB, I'd figure out a way to do it. But I just really don't see myself wanting that. Just recently I was in a store that had 5c MRB's and I thought gosh how shardy and sharp they look. I still try them on tho. At one point yes that was really attractive to me. My tastes have just changed. And YES thankfully because OEC's are a little easier to find at lower prices because the market (to me) has not quite caught on in the regular consumer world (PS is different)...then hopefully I can get lucky with a larger stone. But I've seen large OEC's for priced somewhat close to a MRB... it's not like they are half price or anything.

I can't get a 3c OEC (the one I would want anyway), for the same money I could sell my 2ct for. I wish but it's not quite that bargain basement. Not unless I want to troll eBay for the next 6mo which I admit, I do love to do, but I'm kind of an impatient girl.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Nevermind, should have "refreshed" before posting

Diamondseeker: Your post is illustrating the point I think some are trying to make. If you would return dozens of OECs looking for one that was perfect, then it is not the cut for you and of course a modern version is the best bet!

 

[Dreamer_D]

PS hasn't really been around that long - just a bit over 10 years, I think, and those of us in that early first wave were largely inexperienced. There were few if any 'seasoned' consumers , so most of the 'experience' influence came from the vendors, who were pretty much all proponents of top-make stones. We were pretty much a one-flavor ice-cream store. . No one talked much about colored stones, antique stones, or many other things.

Aljdewey,
That explains some things to me.

It's an amazing place, but sometimes it dose feel like a platform for product placement. For some reason direct communication with vendor makes people feel privileged and special. Especially if the name of the vendor gets mentioned in almost every post. If it's a prosumer forum it should stay this way, if it is a marketing tool serving to promote branded cuts, it should state it so, so people can turn their sense of the best judgement on before they log in.

Edit: I realize that this thread is not about vendors or Pricescope communinty. I cannot delete my last post, but this is my last one in this thread.
I gave my advice to Mara early in the thread - keep the RB, look for that one in a lifetime Ebay find.

Some of us do not recommend vendors Inna. I don't in my own posts, as a generaly rule. I know of others as well. The Prosumer guidelines that are posted at the top of this forum as a sticky pretty clearly encourage people helping not to steer buyers towards vendors unless asked for such advice. But not everyone follows those suggestions.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree that price is a huge factor in this, because I think the bargain factor has very strong appeal and a lot of people who would only buy excellent cut in a rb will settle for a lesser cut in an antique stone. Mara sees she can get a 3 ct. old stone for the money she could get from her 2 ct. rb. That is a big draw for people who want a larger stone and don't want to pay the current price of an ex cut rb. I don't blame them a bit. It is a great way to get a really large stone!

DS...I disagree that someone has to go from having an EX/EX MRB with hardly any light leakage to a 'lesser' cut...to me that's a misleading statement. I have a super-performing MRB. I don't want to 'sacrifice' anything to get a bigger stone and I certainly am not considering it in an OEC *simply* because it's cheaper that way. If I really just thought I wanted a larger MRB, I'd figure out a way to do it. But I just really don't see myself wanting that. Just recently I was in a store that had 5c MRB's and I thought gosh how shardy and sharp they look. I still try them on tho. At one point yes that was really attractive to me. My tastes have just changed. And YES thankfully because OEC's are a little easier to find at lower prices because the market (to me) has not quite caught on in the regular consumer world (PS is different)...then hopefully I can get lucky with a larger stone. But I've seen large OEC's for priced somewhat close to a MRB... it's not like they are half price or anything.

I can't get a 3c OEC (the one I would want anyway), for the same money I could sell my 2ct for. I wish but it's not quite that bargain basement. Not unless I want to troll eBay for the next 6mo which I admit, I do love to do, but I'm kind of an impatient girl.

Mara, I am sorry if I was unclear, because I in no way meant YOU would settle for a lesser cut OEC. I was making two separate points related to pricing. It depends on where one buys the antique stone as to how good the the pricing is! You like OEC's better now which is great for you since you want a larger stone and they CAN cost less than mrb's in some circumstances. Not always, but we see a lot of them here that do. And I do see some OEC's posted on PS that are not as well cut as others. This is one that I absolutely adored and would be the kind of cut quality I would be seeking:

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Nevermind, should have "refreshed" before posting

Diamondseeker: Your post is illustrating the point I think some are trying to make. If you would return dozens of OECs looking for one that was perfect, then it is not the cut for you and of course a modern version is the best bet!

Yes, except you'll have to look at the stone I just put in my last post.

(But to be totally honest, I would almost have to do a 3 stone with AVR's. Finding one stone is one thing, and finding 3 that match in larger sizes would be veryyyyy hard.)

 

[Mara]

Nevermind, should have "refreshed" before posting

Diamondseeker: Your post is illustrating the point I think some are trying to make. If you would return dozens of OECs looking for one that was perfect, then it is not the cut for you and of course a modern version is the best bet!

Yes, except you'll have to look at the stone I just put in my last post.

(But to be totally honest, I would almost have to do a 3 stone with AVR's. Finding one stone is one thing, and finding 3 that match in larger sizes would be veryyyyy hard.)

Nah you just have to find a brooch like TG's!!!

Oh and TG... I've got my beady eye on you..! Hehe.

 

[aljdewey]

I see what you're saying Alj, and I do agree. Although I do think the difference with AGS0 herd and the OEC herd is that the current OEC herd trend right now is to find an old cut stone for a steal. Everyone who has an old cut right now (and I mean EVERYONE I've talked to, including present company) does NOT say JUST the following:

"Look at my gorgeous OEC!"

Nope. Instead they say:

"Look my gorgeous OEC. And OMG, (whisper) THIS is what I paid for it - isn't that amazing??" Of course, the price is between friends...it's not plastered over on PS or anything. But the whispers whoosh through the air around here.

So maybe I'm reading into it, but I do feel there is this vibe to not only find a great OEC, but to find one at a song. Hence the more it happens, the more something like a AVR doesn't seem like a smart buy to some. But in the scheme of retail diamonds, it's a nice stone for the cut style at a fair price (again, if you're comparing to retail). Like you said, it's a good safe route.[/quote]

Look, everyone likes to find something for a steal, right? But I don't think that's the sum of the allure, and the fact that plenty of people are buying through retail channels like JBEG and OWD (where the diamonds can be priced pretty close to those in the RB market) tells me it's not just about getting a steal. Plus, let's keep in mind that part of the reason people find PS is that they want to get a good deal on RBs as well. They want to get the most value for their money, and learning about the purchase is the best way to do that, so I don't think wanting a 'deal' is exclusive to OECs.

Thing is, people with enough experience to know about OECs are the ones who've been around for a while - which means they're also the ones who already bought e-rings, so most people aren't in a position to put similar sums of money into a non-primary piece of jewelry. That's why the steal becomes important to them. Speaking for myself, I'd have a hard time getting a really nice OEC if I had to invest what we invested in my e-ring; my OEC is a part of my jewelry variety, but it's not a primary piece like my e-ring so I'd struggle to justify it.

For me, the reason the AVR isn't a substitute for the OEC isn't because it's not 'a smart buy', as you say, or that it's not enough of a steal. For me, it's more that while it bears a close resemblance to truly old stones, it's not the same. I see it similarly to antique reproduction furniture or, for that matter, antique reproduction settings. While they bear a close resemblance, they are not the same. The very fact that it's 'improving' the optics changes the look; when you start making something more uniform, it loses the wonky part that largely contributed to its charm.

I know this is going to sound weird - to compare a diamond to a person - but for me, this is kind of like when Jennifer Grey changed her nose. She felt her nose was wonky, but in an effort to improve the wonky, she doesn't look like herself anymore. I actually preferred her the way she was before. Who knows - maybe I've just developed a taste for more wonky in my old age.

 

[aljdewey]

John to me the AVC is just a different facet pattern ideal round. Chunky facet ideal Round. MRB can trace their history back to OECs too. I do think they are much close to a MRB than an OEC, exactly because they are perfected OECs. I won't be buying an Octavia anytime either. It's an idealized square emerald, but it's not for me (although I do prefer it to the AVCs I've seen). Neither are for me and I've seen them in person. I don't like the 'idealized' line of fancies. They lose their charm for me. And the AVC becomes cookie cutter exactly because of the uniformity that is required by a branded line and a set facet pattern demands and precision cutting standards. (I do not think Octavia's are cookie cutter, there is more variation in them).

Huge +1 to this. Exactly.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

John to me the AVC is just a different facet pattern ideal round. Chunky facet ideal Round. MRB can trace their history back to OECs too. I do think they are much close to a MRB than an OEC, exactly because they are perfected OECs. I won't be buying an Octavia anytime either. It's an idealized square emerald, but it's not for me (although I do prefer it to the AVCs I've seen). Neither are for me and I've seen them in person. I don't like the 'idealized' line of fancies. They lose their charm for me. And the AVC becomes cookie cutter exactly because of the uniformity that is required by a branded line and a set facet pattern demands and precision cutting standards. (I do not think Octavia's are cookie cutter, there is more variation in them).

Huge +1 to this. Exactly.

Pretty sure she means AVR, though, since she is talking about rounds. (The cushions vary a LOT more.)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Nevermind, should have "refreshed" before posting

Diamondseeker: Your post is illustrating the point I think some are trying to make. If you would return dozens of OECs looking for one that was perfect, then it is not the cut for you and of course a modern version is the best bet!

Yes, except you'll have to look at the stone I just put in my last post.

(But to be totally honest, I would almost have to do a 3 stone with AVR's. Finding one stone is one thing, and finding 3 that match in larger sizes would be veryyyyy hard.)

Nah you just have to find a brooch like TG's!!!

Oh and TG... I've got my beady eye on you..! Hehe.

Yeah, I just saw one on ebay that looked a LOT like hers and it was priced at $17,000!!!!!!! (center is 2 cts., though, so it is probably fairly priced)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fine-18Kt-Art-Deco-Old-European-Cut-Diamond-Ring-4-22CT-/230590253912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0400b58#ht_615wt_1154

 

[InnaR]

I know this is going to sound weird - to compare a diamond to a person - but for me, this is kind of like when Jennifer Grey changed her nose. She felt her nose was wonky, but in an effort to improve the wonky, she doesn't look like herself anymore. I actually preferred her the way she was before. Who knows - maybe I've just developed a taste for more wonky in my old age.

Haha. I was looking for the similar comparison since this morning. Was going to compare Angelina to Sarah Jessica Parker (Sarah Jessica is absolutely an OEC - quirky and exquisite), but I like yours better.

 

[TravelingGal]

Nevermind, should have "refreshed" before posting

Diamondseeker: Your post is illustrating the point I think some are trying to make. If you would return dozens of OECs looking for one that was perfect, then it is not the cut for you and of course a modern version is the best bet!

Yes, except you'll have to look at the stone I just put in my last post.

(But to be totally honest, I would almost have to do a 3 stone with AVR's. Finding one stone is one thing, and finding 3 that match in larger sizes would be veryyyyy hard.)

Nah you just have to find a brooch like TG's!!!

Oh and TG... I've got my beady eye on you..! Hehe.

Yeah, I just saw one on ebay that looked a LOT like hers and it was priced at $17,000!!!!!!! (center is 2 cts., though, so it is probably fairly priced)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fine-18Kt-Art-Deco-Old-European-Cut-Diamond-Ring-4-22CT-/230590253912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0400b58#ht_615wt_1154

My stones wouldn't pass muster with DS. Wonky, plus I think I see a small chip on the girdle (and no saying if it was there before or not, although my bet is that it was). But boy, it works.

Cause it was a deal for me.

Alj, deal is part of it, romantic historical wonder is part, cool faceting is another part, etc etc. I get what you are saying, and I do think are somewhat on the same page on this one.

I'm just going to sit and enjoy all of the pretty bling.

 

[aljdewey]

I honestly don't care whether someone likes old cuts more than a new antique style stone (from Mark, Jon, Leon, etc). (...insert Kenny's line here...) I just don't know ANY vendor who carries a greater variety of stones than Good Old Gold, including real antique stones. They try to meet the customer's preferences. I have seen the videos where Jon has sourced old stones for people.

I agree that price is a huge factor in this, because I think the bargain factor has very strong appeal and a lot of people who would only buy excellent cut in a rb will settle for a lesser cut in an antique stone. Mara sees she can get a 3 ct. old stone for the money she could get from her 2 ct. rb. That is a big draw for people who want a larger stone and don't want to pay the current price of an ex cut rb. I don't blame them a bit. It is a great way to get a really large stone!

I would be extremely happy to have an antique stone at a great price. I'd just want it to be of the very highest cut quality and condition. Even 100 years ago, some stones were much better cut than others, obviously. Just like any other shape of diamond, I won't like them all, but I'll like the best of their kind!

And speaking of experience, I think I could choose an OEC as well as any other consumer here. It's just a matter of whether I want to spend the time and money sending for and potentially returning dozens of stones before I find the perfect one. So please be very careful about characterizing people here who choose newly cut antique stones as somehow lacking knowledge or experience, because it may simply be their preferred way to get a beautiful antique style stone with the greatest ease. Some of us have none to look at locally, and shipping can add up, especially with more valuable stones.

DS, it feels like you are reading some of these preference difference as a personal slight to Jon, and I don't really think they are at all. People who don't feel the AVR is the same thing as a true old cut are talking about product preference, not knocking him or what he offers. I'm in complete agreement that he carries a wide array of things and tries to meet customers' preferences, but that doesn't mean people have to prefer a given product.

But it's kind of ironic to me that you're arguing against characterizing motivations when you're kind of doing the same in suggesting the only motivation for people wanting OECs is price. Yes, it's true that Mara can get more stone for the money, but as Mrs. Salvo always says, a deal isn't a deal unless you're getting *exactly* what you want. While Mara's certainly not going to turn down the side benefit of perhaps getting more bang for the money, her primary reason for doing it is that she prefers the look. The precision cut doesn't appeal to her as much as the wonkiness of old stones, plain and simple.

 

[justginger]

Mara, I think you are making the right decision. Get your feelers out there, have a poke around, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see what size of stone you can come with at your price point.

And I'm not digging the Angelina/SJP comparison because I think one looks like a horse (I'll let YOU decide which!). How about Angelina vs Zooey, who is beautiful in such a fun, quirky way.

 

[aljdewey]

John to me the AVC is just a different facet pattern ideal round. Chunky facet ideal Round. MRB can trace their history back to OECs too. I do think they are much close to a MRB than an OEC, exactly because they are perfected OECs. I won't be buying an Octavia anytime either. It's an idealized square emerald, but it's not for me (although I do prefer it to the AVCs I've seen). Neither are for me and I've seen them in person. I don't like the 'idealized' line of fancies. They lose their charm for me. And the AVC becomes cookie cutter exactly because of the uniformity that is required by a branded line and a set facet pattern demands and precision cutting standards. (I do not think Octavia's are cookie cutter, there is more variation in them).

Huge +1 to this. Exactly.

Pretty sure she means AVR, though, since she is talking about rounds. (The cushions vary a LOT more.)

I'm sure you're right - I was less worried about the alphabet change and more focused on the essence of what she was saying, but yeah....you're right.

 

[Laila619]

One may not care for the look of them, but I don't think it's accurate to say that AVRs are not OECs. According to the grading lab, the certificate, and the cut criteria, they are OECs.

 

[InnaR]

And I'm not digging the Angelina/SJP comparison because I think one looks like a horse (I'll let YOU decide which!). How about Angelina vs Zooey, who is beautiful in such a fun, quirky way.

I'll take it, was just watching "Almost Famous" with her the other day. I dig SJP, but my feelings for her are not as strong as for OECs.

 

[aljdewey]

One may not care for the look of them, but I don't think it's accurate to say that AVRs are not OECs. According to the grading lab, the certificate, and the cut criteria, they are OECs.

Well, so by that logic, you must also believe that many 100+-year stones are round brilliants, because the GIA reports say so. (Incidently, that's a huge reason why EGL is the preferred lab for many older cuts. They at least more consistently recognize the difference between an old euro and a rb.)

The fact that a grading lab doesn't have a label to mark something as a reproduction doesn't make it less of one. If the only two labels available are round brilliant and old euro, it makes sense to choose the old euro label since that's what they most closely resemble. Since they don't have a label for "old euro *style*", it makes sense.

 

[Mara]

One may not care for the look of them, but I don't think it's accurate to say that AVRs are not OECs. According to the grading lab, the certificate, and the cut criteria, they are OECs.

Well, so by that logic, you must also believe that many 100+-year stones are round brilliants, because the GIA reports say so. (Incidently, that's a huge reason why EGL is the preferred lab for many older cuts. They at least more consistently recognize the difference between an old euro and a rb.)

The fact that a grading lab doesn't have a label to mark something as a reproduction doesn't make it less of one. If the only two labels available are round brilliant and old euro, it makes sense to choose the old euro label since that's what they most closely resemble. Since they don't have a label for "old euro *style*", it makes sense.

I was just thinking the same thing! Certs are wrong about OEC's all the time. Or calling them OMC's or OEC's when they are of the opposite designation.

Though if they are calling AVR's OEC's they should call them something like EC and drop the O! False advertising.

 

[TravelingGal]

One may not care for the look of them, but I don't think it's accurate to say that AVRs are not OECs. According to the grading lab, the certificate, and the cut criteria, they are OECs.

Well, so by that logic, you must also believe that many 100+-year stones are round brilliants, because the GIA reports say so. (Incidently, that's a huge reason why EGL is the preferred lab for many older cuts. They at least more consistently recognize the difference between an old euro and a rb.)

The fact that a grading lab doesn't have a label to mark something as a reproduction doesn't make it less of one. If the only two labels available are round brilliant and old euro, it makes sense to choose the old euro label since that's what they most closely resemble. Since they don't have a label for "old euro *style*", it makes sense.

Well, 100 year old stones are round (depending) and brilliant (can be) but AVR's certainly aren't old.

(That was a totally worthless comment to this thread, wasn't it?)

Really, the pertinent question to this thread is: WHAT does Mara have her eye on, that's she's gunning to leave that J in the dust?

 

[Laila619]

One may not care for the look of them, but I don't think it's accurate to say that AVRs are not OECs. According to the grading lab, the certificate, and the cut criteria, they are OECs.

Well, so by that logic, you must also believe that many 100+-year stones are round brilliants, because the GIA reports say so. (Incidently, that's a huge reason why EGL is the preferred lab for many older cuts. They at least more consistently recognize the difference between an old euro and a rb.)

The fact that a grading lab doesn't have a label to mark something as a reproduction doesn't make it less of one. If the only two labels available are round brilliant and old euro, it makes sense to choose the old euro label since that's what they most closely resemble. Since they don't have a label for "old euro *style*", it makes sense.

Another option is the lab could have called the AVR a "modified round brilliant." That's what they call different style rounds like Solasferas, Star 129s, Leos, etc.

 

[aljdewey]

[quote="TravelingGal|1337397006|3198924"
Really, the pertinent question to this thread is: WHAT does Mara have her eye on, that's she's gunning to leave that J in the dust? [/quote]

(sounding like Arnold Horseshack)......OH........OH OH OH..........OH.............I knowwwwwwwwwwwww! But I'm not spilling!

 

[aljdewey]

Since it's the onset of summer, maybe an ice cream comparison would be apropos.

If the only two check boxes for ice cream were vanilla and chocolate, and I were sitting with a bowl of ice cream made with imitation vanilla and asked which of the two boxes my bowl of ice cream would fit into......well, it's more vanilla than chocolate so I'd pick vanilla. But for me, imitation vanilla doesn't take quite like real vanilla.