Opinions on fight?

[doodle]

Personally, if I were in your position, I''d just walk up and say something along the lines of, "Okay, I know you''re upset with me, but I need to say this, so hear me out, think about it for a while if you need to, then let''s talk about it. I''m sorry that we got into such a heated discussion in public--I know that it makes you uncomfortable, and I didn''t mean to disrespect your feelings by engaging in behavior that makes you feel that way. I would never want to do anything that would make you feel badly, so I apologize. I know you didn''t understand why my feelings were hurt, but whether you understand it or not doesn''t in any way change the validity of my feelings, so I feel that you owe me an apology, too. Calling me crazy for feeling a certain way, whether you agree with me or not, is disrespectful to me, and I think we both need to try harder to respect each other''s personal boundaries and treat each other in a way that is helpful and productive for our relationship rather than demeaning. I think we need to talk instead of walking around the house and ignoring each other like we''re five year olds, and I hope that you''ll be willing to discuss this so we can clear the air and go back to being our happy selves. I don''t want to fight with you anymore, so whenever you''re ready to sit down and have a civil conversation and fix this, let me know. I love you." After laying it all out on the line, the ball''s in his court, and I''d give him a week TOPS to man up and take care of business. After that, I''d be gone. Sounds harsh, but I want a man, not a child, and anyone who can have everything put that clearly to them and still flounder for a starting point to open a discussion or who is just too proud to apologize as well, is, IMO, not a man.

 

[wishinpink]

Date: 6/18/2009 1:46:48 PM
Author: doodle
Personally, if I were in your position, I''d just walk up and say something along the lines of, ''Okay, I know you''re upset with me, but I need to say this, so hear me out, think about it for a while if you need to, then let''s talk about it. I''m sorry that we got into such a heated discussion in public--I know that it makes you uncomfortable, and I didn''t mean to disrespect your feelings by engaging in behavior that makes you feel that way. I would never want to do anything that would make you feel badly, so I apologize. I know you didn''t understand why my feelings were hurt, but whether you understand it or not doesn''t in any way change the validity of my feelings, so I feel that you owe me an apology, too. Calling me crazy for feeling a certain way, whether you agree with me or not, is disrespectful to me, and I think we both need to try harder to respect each other''s personal boundaries and treat each other in a way that is helpful and productive for our relationship rather than demeaning. I think we need to talk instead of walking around the house and ignoring each other like we''re five year olds, and I hope that you''ll be willing to discuss this so we can clear the air and go back to being our happy selves. I don''t want to fight with you anymore, so whenever you''re ready to sit down and have a civil conversation and fix this, let me know. I love you.'' After laying it all out on the line, the ball''s in his court, and I''d give him a week TOPS to man up and take care of business. After that, I''d be gone. Sounds harsh, but I want a man, not a child, and anyone who can have everything put that clearly to them and still flounder for a starting point to open a discussion or who is just too proud to apologize as well, is, IMO, not a man.

I like this idea

 

[newsboysgrl777]

Date: 6/18/2009 11:01:45 AM
Author: NuggetBrain

Date: 6/18/2009 10:57:42 AM
Author: Loves Vintage

Wait, what? Where did she say that?

Nugget - As far as the trying to talk, have you considered talking about the issue, but not apologizing if you feel that you have nothing to apologize for. The conversation that you cited has nothing to do with the argument itself. I would openly address the argument, acknowledge with him that you need to talk about it. I think you are hesitant to address the issue because you feel like you are apologizing by breaking the silence. So, don''t apologize and don''t be June Cleaver-ish. Just talk about what happened and how you can both avoid such scenarios in the future.

And, as far as this weekend. If he is not talking to you, I would skip the time with his friends and his parents too. I would absolutely refuse to put up appearances for anyone. That is BS. He can man up, have a conversation with you and resolve this issue. Once everything is back to normal, then I would go along. If he wants to continue to play games and wait-it-out or doing whatever he is doing, then he can go alone.

For the record, I don''t think putting up appearances like you''ve suggested in even remotely emotionally abusive. Not sure where all of that is coming from. I do think it is a reflection of his inability to communicate, along with a desire not to have others aware of a dispute in your relationship.

No one is perfect. Lots of couples have communication issues. It doesn''t seem like either of you have openly addressed how you can both learn to communicate better with each other. I think you need to do that because the communication pattern that you have now is not working.

I can''t have a talk about the issue when he''s in this kind of mood, because it will just lead to another fight or me getting stonewalled. That''s the problem. I have to put him in a better mood before I can even bring up the topic or it will be just as bad as if I tried to bring it up right after the initial fight.

PLEASE read the book I referenced above. PLEASE!?!!

 

[newsboysgrl777]

Date: 6/18/2009 1:46:48 PM
Author: doodle
Personally, if I were in your position, I''d just walk up and say something along the lines of, ''Okay, I know you''re upset with me, but I need to say this, so hear me out, think about it for a while if you need to, then let''s talk about it. I''m sorry that we got into such a heated discussion in public--I know that it makes you uncomfortable, and I didn''t mean to disrespect your feelings by engaging in behavior that makes you feel that way. I would never want to do anything that would make you feel badly, so I apologize. I know you didn''t understand why my feelings were hurt, but whether you understand it or not doesn''t in any way change the validity of my feelings, so I feel that you owe me an apology, too. Calling me crazy for feeling a certain way, whether you agree with me or not, is disrespectful to me, and I think we both need to try harder to respect each other''s personal boundaries and treat each other in a way that is helpful and productive for our relationship rather than demeaning. I think we need to talk instead of walking around the house and ignoring each other like we''re five year olds, and I hope that you''ll be willing to discuss this so we can clear the air and go back to being our happy selves. I don''t want to fight with you anymore, so whenever you''re ready to sit down and have a civil conversation and fix this, let me know. I love you.'' After laying it all out on the line, the ball''s in his court, and I''d give him a week TOPS to man up and take care of business. After that, I''d be gone. Sounds harsh, but I want a man, not a child, and anyone who can have everything put that clearly to them and still flounder for a starting point to open a discussion or who is just too proud to apologize as well, is, IMO, not a man.

AMEN, SISTER!!!!! To EVERYTHING you said! It''s a very open and honest dialogue (or, monologue) and lets him know she takes blame for HER side, and he needs to do the same for his..BUT, the BIGGER problem is, the lack of his ability to face conflict and diffuse it. Honestly? He sounds far too immature and/or self-absorbed to have a HEALTHY relationship.

Of course I can''t tell you, Nugget, what to do, but my inclination would be to SERIOUSLY analyze this and think "is this the kind of relationship I want 10 years from now?" "What about if kids are in the equation?" And, you NEED to realize that a CHILD does not have the capacity to understand why mommy or daddy is mad at me...just that they are, and in a child''s mind, they automatically assume they did something wrong. It is a HORRIBLE thing to do to a child. PLEASE, PLEASE...I BEG of you...think this thing through before just blindly going into a marriage with this man. He has A LOT of work to do (and you may, too..we''re only hearing one side of the story). However, I, too, see snippets of things that remind me of my ex (was my first boyfriend/kiss/etc.) and I can only say it wasn''t until AFTER I got out that I realized HOW unhealthy and abusive it actually was. Please seriously analyze all of this and make an INFORMED decision. AND, realize that if you DID walk away, he''d find someone else...there''s no doubt about that. And, YOU''D find someone else...there is no doubt about THAT, also!! And if you''re wise in who you choose after him, you will find someone who not only loves you, but also RESPECTS you. You NEED someone who values your opinions and feelings, even if he doesn''t understand them or agree with them.

 

[CNYHopeful]

I''m inclined to agree with Newsboysgirl.
Don''t know your history, NuggetBrain, don''t know all about him, but a red flag went up when i read earlier that you mentioned he doesn''t feel he needs to go to couple''s counseling. I think all couples should be open to it and it''s a sign of invested interest and openness and willingness to grow. Every couple has room to grow at every stage of the relationship. I can understand a hesitancy to participate on a certain date if work is keeping him busy or whatnot, but to outright say "we don''t need it" signals to me a sense of fear and inattentiveness to your desires.

Not that my FI and I have the perfect model of a relationship, but we went to a couple''s communication seminar when we were nearly 6 months dating, not because we needed it, but because he thought it was an important part of any relationship and figured we might as well work on it early on rather than wait. We both gained a lot from it and still try to incorporate the lessons when issues arise. It''s been almost 2 years since then and we''re still working on our communication and being vulnerable with touchy subjects, but we''re both aware of that and trying to do our own part to better ourselves.

I wish you two the best and hope that this whole experience is an opportunity for you both to grow and learn to better the situation. We''re here for you to vent in the meantime!

 

[KatyWI]

I thought before I might have been overreacting, but now at least newsboysgrl has seen the same red flags based on the same kind of relationship I had with my ex.

This behavior from him is not healthy, admirable, respectful, or normal. Rather than talking it over civilly he is actively *punishing* you so that you will eventually grovel. This is his way of controlling the situation, and controlling you. He has the upper hand, and that is how he likes it. It is really hard to see how awful this is when you''re right in the middle of it. To you, "that''s just the way he is." But especially since this is your first relationship, I feel like I HAVE to tell you:

IT GETS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS. There are men out there who are kind, respectful, generous with their time and emotions, and would never dare give you the silent treatment after THEY hurt YOUR feelings. Either this man needs to learn to communicate like an adult and not patronize you, or you need to find another man. Because as newsboysgrl mentioned, not only is this not healthy for you, but considering your impending marriage you HAVE to be concerned about what it means for your future children.

This man does not respect you. Either he needs to learn to do so or you should find someone who will. Because it is scary the way people treat people they do not respect.

 

[newsboysgrl777]

Date: 6/19/2009 7:44:41 AM
Author: KatyWI
This behavior from him is not healthy, admirable, respectful, or normal. Rather than talking it over civilly he is actively *punishing* you so that you will eventually grovel. This is his way of controlling the situation, and controlling you. He has the upper hand, and that is how he likes it. It is really hard to see how awful this is when you're right in the middle of it. To you, 'that's just the way he is.'

I just wanted to comment on this quickly. Even if this is NOT his intention and this is NOWHERE in the realm of his thinking, he needs to work on this. He shouldn't be acting this way because of the message it does and/or CAN give off (a: you're miserable because he's upset; b: he's 'punishing' you (as mentioned above); or...any other way you may take it). Please don't misunderstand me (or us) in that I'm saying he is a bad person; I'm not. I don't know him, and as I mentioned above, we only hear your side of things. This very well could be something he's just got to learn to do better (resolve conflict, communicate, take your feelings into consideration, etc.). This is definitely something that would benefit the two of you to work on together.

However, I'd also like to ask you (again) to really evaluate if he is willing to work to better your interaction with one another, or if he's just so stubborn or whatever his reasoning may be, that he isn't interested. Again, please don't misunderstand me for saying this makes him a bad person - it doesn't. But, it does make him a selfish partner. One thing you have to realize in marriage (and this SHOULD BE the same way in dating, but I can understand why it would not be as you haven't commited your life to the other person), is that we always have to be mindful of our partner. And to take that a step further, we SHOULD BE thinking of our partner's needs ahead of our own. Obviously this is in a perfect world, with perfect people, and we all make mistakes and tend to be selfish or have those tendencies, but we should at least be striving for that kind of relationship.

Having said all of that, I realized while going to pre-marital counseling HOW fortunate I am to have the FI I have. I say that because he is WILLING to look at himself and how he treats me and talks to me and even if he doesn't understand why something makes me feel a certain way, he'll at least respect that I do feel that way. (And believe me, he still struggles with this! I think all men do...they're much more logical in their thinking than we are) And I'm willing to do the same for him, and it was an absolutely wonderful thing when HE said to ME that he was thankful I was that kind of person!! He said he could see some changes in my interacting with him already based on the counseling and said that with any other woman, he may not have someone so willing to try to work WITH him. He wasn't saying this in a selfish way at all...but in a way that made me realize that if he values this in me, he realizes how much I value it in him, also.

I'm so sorry this is getting so long and rambly...but I'm just trying to show you that it's very, very important for you two to work out how to resolve conflict BEFORE you walk down that aisle...and it's very important that he is willing to learn how to be a better communicator. He has to learn that how he is acting now (and the way he copes with being upset) is unhealthy and unfair to you. Whatever his reaction to hearing/learning THAT is...that's what we'd like you to analyze. Yes he's upset now, but what about after 4 days when he's 'cooled down?' Does he realize how his behavior affects the success of your relationship? Does he realize how it made/makes you feel? If he's not willing to listen to reason, then maybe it IS time for you to take a step away, girl. And please, please, PLEASE believe me when I say that you WILL find somebody else if you do choose to walk away! (This is not my advice to you (to walk away), that is for you and you alone to decide, but I know when I was with my ex, I remembered crying (after 3 years of a bad relationship...and then him cheating on me..not once, but twice, with 2 different people) and saying "if he doesn't love me, who will? No one will ever love me." In the midst of everything, it's perfectly 'normal' to feel scared of being alone, but you need to realize that that's just not the truth. There may be a Mr. Right right around the corner, but you're not able to be in a relationship with him until you're out of this one and healed from it)

Again, so sorry for this being long. I hope I made sense?! Good luck to you and *BIG HUGS.* Remember...no one else can tell you what to do. YOU have to make the decision(s) that is/are right for you. I just pray that you'll make wise decisions for you - no matter what that means.

 

[NuggetBrain]

Just an update - we talked a bit last night, although not as in depth as I''d like to. I mentioned couples counceling again and he was reluctant, but he said that if its something that is important to me he''d go and do his best to be openminded to it. I think it helped that I made sure to let him know I didn''t want to go because our relationship is bad, but because there are parts of our relationship that we can make better than they are. His family is very "your business stays your business" and so its hard for him to talk to people outside of the relationship about the relationship. I think he''s having issues and stress at work (yet again, he doesn''t talk about work much because he says he doesn''t want to complain to me about stuff) and that has made him more touchy and agitated lately. I would like to say that normally our arguements work themselves out, or we discuss them rationally. In the beginning of our relationship it was very rocky, we had a lot of fights that ended this way. As of the last couple of years (we''ve been together its gotten much better.

My dad was very verbally, physically and emotionally abusive to my mom so I''m a little hesitant to label FI as abusive. I wasn''t very fair to him in my posting I think, I didn''t mention that he''s very loving, supportive of everything I do, funny, goofy, pretty laid-back most of the time. He says he feels like he can totally be himself with only me and that I''m his best friend, I feel the same way. If I didn''t think that this relationship was much more good than bad I''d probably leave, but I just want to make the biggest issue we have (our communication) better. I''m hoping that tonight we can really sit down and talk over everything - I''m planning on making dinner and he said that he would make sure he was home on time. All of you guys have been so helpful and I''m really glad I got so many opinions - you''ve all given me a lot to think about and some good points and suggestions to bring up in our discussion tonight.

 

[KatyWI]

NuggetBrain, I hope I''ve admitted in one of my past posts that I know practically nothing about your relationship except for what you''ve told us here, and I don''t mean to pass judgement. I *am* positive that I said that I was not trying to convince you to leave, just to demand respect and work on communication. I just couldn''t help but be a little worried for you!

I''m so glad to hear you are working it out, and that he is open to counseling. I honestly believe that MOST couples would probably benefit from it, most especially if they''re having trouble communicating. I''m glad that he treats you so well most of the time and that you are best friends... so hopefully he will continue to be open to bettering his communication skills along with yours as a couple and your relationship will thrive.

Good luck with everything!!!!

 

[newsboysgrl777]

Nugget, thanks for updating us. Would you consider the book(s) I mentioned to you? Maybe your FI will be more receptive to trying to work it out between the two of you and a book, rather than a counselor? Like I said, our pastor had us read this, and we discussed it with him...but he obviously feels it's a good 'addition' to just counseling us, you know? So it could also be a good 'substitute' or at least starting point.

And thanks for updating us on GOOD things about your FI. It's easy for us to only see/hear about the negatives and think that's all there is. And to hear you two have been together for 8 years is both comforting and alarming. LOL 1) Comforting because you are totally aware of how he acts/is as opposed to him just being on his best behavior (like the first 6 mos or a year of relationships tend to be) 2) Alarming because after 8 years, you're both still struggling with this!! BUT, glad to hear he's willing to open up and address this...because, as you put it, it's aspects of a good relationship you're working on...not the entire relationship that you're working on (and not that it's a bad relationship...AND not just that it's HIM who has work to do).

Also, I want to mention that my FI doesn't cope with work stress (or home stress, really) very well either. So sometimes he's just moody and grumpy (even if he's not OUTWARDLY being hostile or anything...I can just intuit, you know?) but he doesn't want to discuss it because he doesn't want to upset me or whatever. The thing I've tried doing is letting him know that 1) it hurts me to see him hurting*, 2) I'm his life-mate (or team mate) and I am there FOR him..to help ease his pain, 3) it hurts me to not have him open up to me to allow me to help him. (*When I say hurting, I mean if he's stressed,worried, upset, or anything.)
And, lastly, it's good to hear that you're strong enough that you'd walk away if you felt it was needed.

YAY for you for being one of the stronger women!! I was weak for far too long, so I'm not dissing ANYONE who lacks in strength to walk away.

*Hugs*

 

[decodelighted]

People aren''t born knowing how to resolve conflict & fight fairly & agree to disagree. Objective counseling is a great idea & I''m glad to see he''s becoming more open to it. Communication is the biggest stumbling block in relationships and even nearly perfect ones can benefit from more tools in the ol'' shed.

 

[meresal]

Nugget, I'm so glad to hear your update. You all have been together a long time, and from a young age, it's hard for a relationship to mature from what you are "used" to. It's great that he has opened up to allowing your relationship and communication level to grow, and it shows a great level of respect for you, that he is willing to try new things, and even seek out counseling.
As far as his job, I am with an FI that has a very stressful job, and though he doesn't like the idea of "complaining" to me, I always ask him to share what's wrong and pretty much force it out of him, everyday after work. Everyone needs a place to share. It sounds like, by him not sharing his day with someone, he is unloading stress in other areas, that are sometimes hurtful to you. I think it might help him if he knows that you are very willing to listen about his day, ya know? Everyone likes to know there is someone on their side

Again, I'm so glad to hear you were able to sit down and have a good conversation. Even in your post, you sound more at ease with the whole thing.

 

[doodle]

YAY for both of you! Please let us know how your talk goes, and I''m wishing both of you all the best. Personally, I think the two of you having been in a relationship for so long and with so little prior dating experience, it takes more effort from both of you to learn how to communicate with each other effectively. You don''t have the prior experience to have learned from, you know? There are certain common behaviors in relationships when you''re younger that you grow out of, but when you''ve been with the same person for all that time, some of those habits that you usually grow out of just stick with you because they were the norm for you. Counseling would probably teach you better habits to replace those old ones, and it could be beneficial. I wouldn''t take his having been resistant to counseling as disrespect--I grew up in a "solve your own problems" kind of environment, and with the way I was raised, I was pretty much TAUGHT to believe that counseling is for people who lack the ability to stand on their own, so it took some arm-twisting to convince me it wasn''t a crock of hooey, but I''ve warmed to the idea, haha! Pointing out that it''s for the purpose of making something good better rather than trying to completely make the relationship over like it''s totally terrible would be an effective argument for it for me, so hopefully, it''ll go over well with him, too! Anyway, I''m just rambling now--sorry about that! Good luck to you, and I hope you guys get this whole thing resolved and put behind you!