Parents versus Military Recruiters

[AGBF]

One unexpected (although not unintended) consequence of the No Child Left Behind law has been that military recruiters have unprecedented access to children. This article details some of the military's practices and how parents are fighting back.

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[strmrdr]

They can be pests but the parents are wacked.
The "kids" are old enough to decide on there own if its right for them.
While not for everyone there are some huge advantages to signing up.
I almost did and wish now that I had.

 

[Blue824]

I sort of feel that if parents feel strongly that they don''t want their children in the military, that is a discussion they should have with their own child outside of the school. The bottom line is that the military has had a positive influence on many people, allowing them to attend colleges they wouldn''t otherwise be able to attend, to pick up life skills, to travel. Obviously right now parents are hoping their children are not in the military because of Afghanistan or Iraq. The military was not a choice I made, nor would wish to make. I don''t want my younger brothers involved either...those views are purely selfish from the current situations. However, for some people it is a great choice...agreed with strmrdr that by 18 they''re old enough to make their own decisions.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I don''t believe that 18 YOs are old enough or mature enough to make such a life altering decision. Kids in HS are still incredibly impressionable and are heavily influenced by peer groups and trends, so how can they be sensible when it comes to recruiters'' speeches?

I think it''s fundamentally WRONG to have military personally trying to pull CHILDREN into a profession that could leave them handicapped or DEAD!!!

 

[movie zombie]

if these ''kids'' are old enough to decide to go into the military are they also old enough to decide whether or not to have an abortion? just curious....

peace, movie zombie

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/3/2005 2:31:58 PM
Author: movie zombie
if these 'kids' are old enough to decide to go into the military are they also old enough to decide whether or not to have an abortion? just curious....

peace, movie zombie

That's veering off into a whole different subject. The question is whether ADULTS should be soliciting IMPRESSIONABLE teenagers to put their lives in danger. We're looking at more the prospective of is it right for military to be entering our schools and disrupting a school day with promises of excitment and college funding via military enlistment. If planned parenthood stepped into the classroom and promoted abortions to IMPRESSIONABLE girls, wouldn't you see this as a problem?

 

[IrishEyes]

I pretty much agree with Michelle here. I''m in the army and presently getting a medical discharge to get out. I''ve been in for almost 5 years and spent 17 months in Iraq. I joined when I was 21. There were a multitude of reasons leading to my decision to join, however once I met with a recruiter, I felt like I pretty much had to. They are VERY convincing and tell you alot of bulls**t about " oh don''t worry, you won''t go anywhere. It''s just one weekend a month, two weeks a year for six years" blah blah blah. One weekend a month my a**!!! Granted, this was pre 9-11, so of course we really didn''t envision any wars happening. He tried telling me that the National Guard is the "last to get called up", that active duty and reserves go first. That was a lie. My national guard unit was one of the first in the state to get called to duty when we started sending troops to Iraq.
anyway, there is a method to their madness. It''s simple psychology really. Men and women up until about the age of 25 are exremely impressionable, indecisive and easily swayed. Of course this is not ALL people, however it is most. That is why they (the recruiters) target men and women between the ages of 18 to about 24ish. They want to get you while you still aren''t completely decided on what you want to do with your life and what direction to go in. That''s how they got me! I was 21 and had had a miserable year and was looking for some direction. And they gave it to me. Now I don''t completely regret my decision. I gained an enormous amount of maturity, insight to life, perspective, etc. I made decent money and got to experience the pride of fighting for my country. I''m a veteran of war and honestly, I couldn''t be prouder because I know that not everyone can do what I did. However, I saw things that people should not see. Seeing fellow soldiers lose their lives is something one never forgets. Having friends die in mortar attacks and roadside bombs is heartbreaking, to say the least. But what is even more heartbreaking is the families of those soldiers losing their sons, daughters, sisters, brothers. The void that is left by the death of these great people is one of the deepest, emptiest chasms one could ever imagine. And it''s easy to see why some may blame the recruiter that sat in front of that soldier only months before, swearing that they are going to have "so much fun in the military", and "don''t worry, your daughter will be back before you know it".
Unfortunately, the law is the law, and people are considered adults at the age of 18. I know now that at 18 I still had a world of growing up to do. If a military recruiter came up to me now, at 25, even if I hadn''t had the military experiences that I''ve had, I would say no to joining. I''m simply to set in my life, have a life "plan" and would not change it to take a pay cut and risk my life. But hey, some people really want to do it, and my prayers are with them. Parents can fight it all they want, but unfortunately, if Sally is 17 and really wants to be a marine when she turns 18, it will happen. No one will stop her. Because realistically, only the parents and family don''t like the idea. She likes it, the government certainly likes it, so there you have it......

 

[Rank Amateur]

You need a better argument against recuiter access than a person at 18 is too impressionable. 18 is plenty old enough for everything else in this country, you ought to be able to withstand the siren song of the military recruiter.

It is a free country and parents are complaining about their kids having a choice in their careers. Please. Be a parent through the first 17 years and trust the that the rest will fall in place.

 

[IrishEyes]

As you said, it''s free country. So that is your opinion.....

 

[tanuki]

I do find it interesting that 18 is old enough to make a life altering decision that will bind you to the military for four years and maybe longer if the stop loss rule used but too young to order a margarita along with your meal in a restaurant.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 5:30:22 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
You need a better argument against recuiter access than a person at 18 is too impressionable. 18 is plenty old enough for everything else in this country, you ought to be able to withstand the siren song of the military recruiter.

It is a free country and parents are complaining about their kids having a choice in their careers. Please. Be a parent through the first 17 years and trust the that the rest will fall in place.

Since it is a free country I will exercise *MY* option to be a parent as long as my child and I are both alive, thank you.

As to military recruiters: I do not happen to fear military recruiters myself. My daughter is not at all interested in the military. She is the type of girl that makes me think girls should *NOT* be drafted, unless service to others in the US (like teaching with a minimum stipend) is an option for girls. She would not be interested no matter what was offered. The problem is that the recruiters prey on children who are impressionable, especially boys, I think. Boys can so easily be made to feel that they will be heroes.

The law should force recruiters to give children the equivalent of Miranda rights, telling them the *truth*, not lies, about what lies ahead and saying they have the right to talk to their parents and should!

Deb

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 2:06:41 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen
I don''t believe that 18 YOs are old enough or mature enough to make such a life altering decision. Kids in HS are still incredibly impressionable and are heavily influenced by peer groups and trends, so how can they be sensible when it comes to recruiters'' speeches?


I think it''s fundamentally WRONG to have military personally trying to pull CHILDREN into a profession that could leave them handicapped or DEAD!!!

I was shooting guns in the army (jrotc) at age 14 in high school just never went anywhere with it after high school.
Lots of my friends who went thru the same program went on to serve.
I got my college acceptance letter and a financial aid package to cover it so did that instead.
Kinda wish id taken the other route.
At 17 or 18 they are plenty old enough to make the decision.
Some of my high school friends made the decided they were going to join at 14 and did after high school at 17-18.

Kids at that age wont do anything they dont want to do just ask thier parents :}

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/3/2005 5:30:22 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
You need a better argument against recuiter access than a person at 18 is too impressionable. 18 is plenty old enough for everything else in this country, you ought to be able to withstand the siren song of the military recruiter.

It is a free country and parents are complaining about their kids having a choice in their careers. Please. Be a parent through the first 17 years and trust the that the rest will fall in place.

Eighteen is not legal age for drinking! Not everything is allowed at age 18.

Parents are not complaining about children having a choice in their careers. It's about recruiters targeting kids in schools and luring them into a VIOLENT career. Often times schools populated by poor minority groups are targeted which is clearly unethical and racist.

Honestly, I cannot even figure out what your arguement is! You haven't quite explained why it's cool that military personal should ENTER a SCHOOL and be handing out pathlets promoting a career where killing is acceptable.

AND, it's not my children I'm concerned about as I'm sure they'll be fine. It's the children who've fallen through the cracks. As I stated, certain groups from communities where the job market is subpar are unfairly targeted. Shouldn't we, as parents, be concerned about this???

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 7:25:02 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 6/3/2005 5:30:22 PM

Author: Rank Amateur

You need a better argument against recuiter access than a person at 18 is too impressionable. 18 is plenty old enough for everything else in this country, you ought to be able to withstand the siren song of the military recruiter.


It is a free country and parents are complaining about their kids having a choice in their careers. Please. Be a parent through the first 17 years and trust the that the rest will fall in place.

Eighteen is not legal age for drinking! Not everything is allowed at age 18.


Parents are not complaining about children having a choice in their careers. It's about recruiters targeting kids in schools and luring them into a VIOLENT career. Often times schools populated by poor minority groups are targeted which is clearly unethical and racist.


Honestly, I cannot even figure out what your arguement is! You haven't quite explained why it's cool that military personal should ENTER a SCHOOL and be handing out pathlets promoting a career where killing is acceptable.


AND, it's not my children I'm concerned about as I'm sure they'll be fine. It's the children who've fallen through the cracks. As I stated, certain groups from communities where the job market is subpar are unfairly targeted. Shouldn't we, as parents, be concerned about this???

If one is not willing to kill for thier country then they dont deserve to live in it.
One not willing to fight for freedom is allready a slave.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 8:57:47 PM
Author: strmrdr
If one is not willing to kill for thier country then they dont deserve to live in it.
One not willing to fight for freedom is allready a slave.

Balderdash. No woman would say that.

Deborah

 

[strmrdr]

I think mandatory 2 years of service at 18 for everyone would do this country a lot of good.
There would be a lot less wimps running around.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:00:47 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 8:57:47 PM

Author: strmrdr

If one is not willing to kill for thier country then they dont deserve to live in it.

One not willing to fight for freedom is allready a slave.

Balderdash. No woman would say that.


Deborah

I know more than a few that would.
There is some fighting spirit left in the fairer sex dispite all attempts to remove it and make them slaves.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:03:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
There is some fighting spirit left in the fairer sex dispite all attempts to remove it and make them slaves.

I have plenty of fighting spirit left, Storm. I just have different enemies from you as well as different beliefs as to the way humans should fight and when.

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:01:03 PM
Author: strmrdr
I think mandatory 2 years of service at 18 for everyone would do this country a lot of good.
There would be a lot less wimps running around.

If two years of mandatory service caused there to be fewer wimps, I would have to oppose it on that principle alone. We need more wimps (uh...make that thoughtful men) and fewer cowboys. I think one''s testosterone level should be measured before he can take office and anyone who has as much as the average male should be barred from holding public office.

Deb

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:07:50 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 9:03:28 PM

Author: strmrdr

There is some fighting spirit left in the fairer sex dispite all attempts to remove it and make them slaves.

I have plenty of fighting spirit left, Storm. I just have different enemies from you as well as different beliefs as to the way humans should fight and when.


Deborah

Ah yes you love to have word fights.
I find them so boring, id much rather be out shooting :}

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:11:39 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 9:01:03 PM

Author: strmrdr

I think mandatory 2 years of service at 18 for everyone would do this country a lot of good.

There would be a lot less wimps running around.

If two years of mandatory service caused there to be fewer wimps, I would have to oppose it on that principle alone. We need more wimps (uh...make that thoughtful men) and fewer cowboys. I think one''s testosterone level should be measured before he can take office and anyone who has as much as the average male should be barred from holding public office.


Deb

A country tried that once and they got overran in days by the Germans sad thing is they never learned from it and it happened again and they still havent learned a thing.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:23:00 PM
Author: strmrdr
Ah yes you love to have word fights.
I find them so boring, id much rather be out shooting :}

Well then I wish someone would give you a toy gun and let you play with the other boys in the neighborhood. War is not a game. Read the War Poets from World war I. Most of them died before their poems were published. If that doesn''t turn you off playing soldier, nothing will.

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:24:39 PM
Author: strmrdr
A country tried that once and they got overran in days by the Germans sad thing is they never learned from it and it happened again and they still havent learned a thing.

To whom are you referring, Storm? And in what era?

Deborah

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:48:33 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 9:24:39 PM

Author: strmrdr

A country tried that once and they got overran in days by the Germans sad thing is they never learned from it and it happened again and they still havent learned a thing.

To whom are you referring, Storm? And in what era?


Deborah

1900-today
And those boys that played with the toy guns had to go save them twice.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:45:47 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 9:23:00 PM

Author: strmrdr

Ah yes you love to have word fights.

I find them so boring, id much rather be out shooting :}

Well then I wish someone would give you a toy gun and let you play with the other boys in the neighborhood. War is not a game. Read the War Poets from World war I. Most of them died before their poems were published. If that doesn''t turn you off playing soldier, nothing will.


Deborah

actualy war is the ultimate game of life.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 10:18:11 PM
Author: Feydakin
If a young adult of 18 is incapable of making an adult decision, their parents failed them.. Period..

How do you figure that?

Deb, fascinated and waiting to hear the logic behind this one!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 9:54:19 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/3/2005 9:48:33 PM

Author: AGBF

Date: 6/3/2005 9:24:39 PM


Author: strmrdr


A country tried that once and they got overran in days by the Germans sad thing is they never learned from it and it happened again and they still havent learned a thing.

To whom are you referring, Storm? And in what era?



Deborah

1900-today

And those boys that played with the toy guns had to go save them twice.

Earth to Storm! Earth to Storm! What *COUNTRY* are you referring to? Where was this magnificent experiment supposedly held? And who had to save whom? Do you need a cup of coffee? You don''t seem with it tonight!

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

The War Poets were the young men who fought during World War I...and wrote about it. Most of them died. Most of their generation died. Theirs is referred to as the Lost Generation because not only did the men die. The men died in such numbers that women outnumbered the remaining men greatly. With so few men alive, most women could not marry and few children were born. Truly a generation was wiped out. The poets of this era are truly memorable.

Dulce et Decorum Est
by Wilfred owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime -
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil''s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/3/2005 10:47:25 PM
Author: Feydakin
Perhaps he was reffering to these guys??

Steve,

If I had wanted to speculate on to whom Storm was referring I would have done so myself. So far he hasn''t referred to a nation, a war, or a period any more specific than 1900 to the present. I''d like to see what he has to say since it is he who claims we once had a country run by people with low testosterone levels.

 

[AGBF]

In Memoriam
by Ewart Alan Mackintosh

Written in memory of Private D. Sutherland Killed in Action in the German Trench,
May 16th 1916, and the others who Died.



So you were David''s father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year got stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David''s father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight --
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers'',
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed, "Don''t leave me, Sir,"
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.