pear shape guidlines/cflutist

[tommalle]

I am trying to figure out the proper proportions to look for when buying a pear shape. I''ve searched far and wide, thread after thread, and website after website.

So far the very unpopular Fred Cuellar is the only one to give exact numbers to look for in several catagories: table 53-64%, total depth 56-61%, crown height 11.2-16.2%, crown angles 32-35 degrees, pavilion depth 41.51-43.1%, pavilion angles 39.25-40.75 degrees, lenght to width ratio 1.50-1.75.

The information here on priscope, according to "the fancy cut grading system" by Dave Atlas , if you are going for 1A or 1B quality is: table 53-61.5%, total depth 59-63% and crown height 11.5-16%, length to width ratio 1.50-1.75. There is nothing about angles of the pavilion or crown.

As you can see there is a little difference of opinion. My next thought was to find a pear shaped diamond that I really love on someone else and find out their dimensions. I LOVE Cflutist pear but after doing some digging I see that she hasn''t posted in a year or two. The only stats I could find was that her table was 57% and her depth was 61.1% I read she is a gemologist and when she got engaged she had a whole list of criteria that her perfect diamond had to meet. I would love to ask her what numbers she was looking for but like I said, I don''t think she posts anymore.

And lastly I know that with fancy shapes you have to see them in person, numbers are not everything. I am looking for my 3rd pear so I am not new to this. With the first two I picked them with my eyes and not with numbers. But this time I would like to get the perfect pear according to the numbers and then judge with my eyes. Make sense?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/16/2009 11:05:56 PM
Author:tommalle
I am trying to figure out the proper proportions to look for when buying a pear shape. I've searched far and wide, thread after thread, and website after website.

So far the very unpopular Fred Cuellar is the only one to give exact numbers to look for in several catagories: table 53-64%, total depth 56-61%, crown height 11.2-16.2%, crown angles 32-35 degrees, pavilion depth 41.51-43.1%, pavilion angles 39.25-40.75 degrees, lenght to width ratio 1.50-1.75.

The information here on priscope, according to 'the fancy cut grading system' by Dave Atlas , if you are going for 1A or 1B quality is: table 53-61.5%, total depth 59-63% and crown height 11.5-16%, length to width ratio 1.50-1.75. There is nothing about angles of the pavilion or crown.

As you can see there is a little difference of opinion. My next thought was to find a pear shaped diamond that I really love on someone else and find out their dimensions. I LOVE Cflutist pear but after doing some digging I see that she hasn't posted in a year or two. The only stats I could find was that her table was 57% and her depth was 61.1% I read she is a gemologist and when she got engaged she had a whole list of criteria that her perfect diamond had to meet. I would love to ask her what numbers she was looking for but like I said, I don't think she posts anymore.

And lastly I know that with fancy shapes you have to see them in person, numbers are not everything. I am looking for my 3rd pear so I am not new to this. With the first two I picked them with my eyes and not with numbers. But this time I would like to get the perfect pear according to the numbers and then judge with my eyes. Make sense?

Hi Tommalle,

Cflutist hasn't posted for a long time now unfortunately, she might read from time to time and see this though - you never know!

I see what you are saying with the numbers, I would say though don't get hung up on them - if a perfect pear presents itself and it doesn't match the numbers then it would be a shame to dismiss it. As to which chart to use, I would also use David Atlas's chart in preference. I would recommend working with a vendor who has in house diamonds, or one who can call in a virtual diamond and then do the cut analysis on it such as ASET, Idealscope and detailed photos so you can see what you are buying.

 

[oldminer]

The "reason" that there are no angles for crown or pavilion given on fancy shapes, especially curved sided ones, is one which you must envision in your mind to understand. As you revolve around a curved sided fancy shape, such as pear, marquise or oval, the angles MUST change as the length to depth measure varies around the stone. The depth percentage I use is only taken at the widt as a guide to helping screen the stones and usually have the most to do with these shapes as they relate to round brilliant cutting parameters, At their longer measurements they do not act like round brilliants and the angles would be generally much more shallow without any relationship to beauty or appearance. In some cases, the angles on some points around the diamond might be surprisingly steep, and again, it would not necessarily change the looks in a negative way.

Parametric screening is a great way to weed out poor cut diamonds, but it is not the way to select the one, finer cut, you might want to own. You develop a list of those which get 2B or better and then start looking for what makes you happy. That''s the right way to attack the selection problem. Using 1A and 1B only needlessy leave out some very pretty diamonds with minor cutting faults that may actually look the best to your eyes. If you are going to buy a diamond, you MUST buy one you think looks the best and compromise is definitely allowed and reasonable.

 

[tommalle]

I think I know what you are saying. Could the crown and pavilion angles that Cuellar gives be for the curved/round part of the pear that most resembles a round brilliant? What I don''t quite understand is this part...

At their longer measurements they do not act like round brilliants and the angles would be generally much more shallow without any relationship to beauty or appearance. In some cases, the angles on some points around the diamond might be surprisingly steep, and again, it would not necessarily change the looks in a negative way.

I thought all angles in a diamond help determine how much light is reflected back. How can the angles at the pointed end not matter?

What is beautiful to me is a stone with the most sparkle. How do I know I am getting that without numbers to go by? I can be shown a handful of stones and pick the sparkliest of the bunch but that doesn''t mean I have a stone with the maximum amount of light return.

 

[neatfreak]

Cueller is very unpopular for a reason...buy what you like with fancies IMO. You really do just want to see a bunch of stones and pick the one that looks best to your eye, after all that's what diamonds are about!

 

[oldminer]

Yes, the angles absolutely mean a lot, BUT measuring aqnd reporting only one set, whether at one location or the overall average is of no use. This is why one must examine the diamond with one''s eyes and only screen out dogs and wrongly cut stones with the Cut Class charts..... You have the idea right and I hope this explains why angle reporting is of little importance. Reporting pecentages based on width are just as useful and way less confusing.

 

[tommalle]

David, thanks for your help. I was just hoping that searching for a pear would be a little bit easier. Its too bad I don''t like round brilliants...

 

[tommalle]

I am getting confused again. I went to Goodoldgold to browse their loose stones. 3 of the 4 pears available listed crown and pavillion angles. I thought that they weren''t important. Also where are the numbers coming from? The way it was explained to me is that there are many different measurements because the stone is not symetical. Which specific angle did they measure or did they average them or something?

 

[oldminer]

Probably they are reporting the angle at the width, but it is possible to report the average angle from all around the stone. Like I said, ignore it and go on. Don''t labor over the angle. You can always call on the phone and speak with Jonathan about how a particular diamond looks. Like many vendors here, he enjoys personal contact and won''t lie to you.

 

[Rockdiamond]

But this time I would like to get the perfect pear according to the numbers and then judge with my eyes. Make sense?

All due respect but no- it does not make sense to try and buy a pear shape using ANY formula.
Goodoldgold has an awesome site- and does provide a tremendous amount of info but I believe that the listing of crown angles and such on a pear shape more of a response to people asking- although I believe the requests are misguided.

As Dave has mentioned the curves and different shapes you''ll see looking at pears are largely subjective.

Kind of like asking "What''s the best height and weight for a man."
6 foot, 200 pounds, right?
Of course it''s a hypothetical question as all people''s eyes are pleased by different proportions.....

 

[tommalle]

I must be a big idiot then because I just don''t get it. Other shapes have more specific guidlines especially rounds. People, or I should say your average pricescoper, don''t line up a bunch of rounds diamonds and pick the prettiest one. I feel like that is what I am being told to do with pears. If all one is to do is pick the one that looks best with our eyes why is there aset, idealscope and all of those other tools to evaluate diamonds?

I was browsing a website that featured the most famous diamonds in the world. On there was the millennium star diamond and it was described as being "cut to perfect proportions." I am sure the lad that cut that stone didn''t say to himself...I am just gonna hurry up and cut this thing, someone will end up liking it. It says that 100 plastic models of the origional rough were made basically to practice how to cut it to retain the most possible weight and of course to maximize beauty. So to me it sounds like proportions are very important in pears...at least to monsterous ones.